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Level 4's - Do You Find That Killing Frigs Is Nigh On Impossible?

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B0rn2KiLL	Posted - 2006.05.14 18:14:00 - [31] save up and buy some faction smart bombs, thats the way it is with l4s --- new sig, Hijack it and ill eat u. *Imaran hands B0rn2KiLL a fork - Come get some!11
Galadiin Venyaa	Posted - 2006.05.14 18:40:00 - [32] Originally by: Tristan Edited by: Tristan on 14/05/2006 16:02:06 The fact still remains though, that the damned friggs take more shooting at to kill than the damned battleships! whats up with that!?!? its stupid, when they brought in the directional hit and traking stuff they went a bit over the top IMO and made "throwaway" cheap frigs harder to kill than 100million isk battleships. PLease sort it CCP, ok have them a bit harder to hit so they are effective in combat, sure, but as they are now is retarded. I tend to warp in at 80KM, lock them then fire off two of my L guns at them, soon as they agro and start flying towards me they pop instantly at that range. However once they start getting close, or flying in a different direction - like when they spread out to "surround" you, you cant hit them for crap, even with M guns. When using Accel gates though you dont have that luxury of range. One thing i found that helps a lot is having a Heavy Webifier drone in my drone mix. It doesent stop the frigates dead in their tracks on its own, but it does slow them down a fair bit making my medium drones job a lot easier, and you get a few hits on them with your guns too. I still say its snafu though, specially when they repair their whole armour in one go as you mentioned. I find the Tristans are oft harder to kill than any other frigate. Even more than Elites like condors, medium dronesd shred them to bits since they dont tend to fly about too much. I believe it's working as intended. If you wanna kill a frig, either get in a frig, or use the right equipment for the job. You can't hit a squirrel with a 120mm tank main gun. But a little air rifle will do the job just fine.
Tristan	Posted - 2006.05.14 18:56:00 - [33] Actually thats wrong, the tank would kill the squirrel in the blink of an eye. And the tree its sat in... Same logic with ships, you think a battleship cant hit a frigate at sea? or a dingy for that matter? I agree it should be this way, or frigs would be of no use in combat. However it is too far in the favour of the frigs at the moment. They take longer to kill than battleships and cruisers. Which is plainly wrong. And yes using smaller guns to do the job, Still takes too long compared to how fast other ships, costing way way more money pop.
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.05.14 18:59:00 - [34] In no form or shape is it planned to be like this. If it would be, why the hell have webifiers anyway if they're useless against frigates? That you can hit and hit and hit and hit a frigate without anything happening to it is insane, plain and simple. If it's webbed, it's slow. If it's slow enough to hit, it sure as hell should take damage as well. That a web prevents an enemy from taking damage is just bull manure.
Bland Inquisitor	Posted - 2006.05.14 19:46:00 - [35] Regardless, killing frigs is getting to be a stupid situation - we did a angel extrav in 2 domis last nite and in teh end of the stage we had 30 frigs to kill because we kileld everything else and that took 15 minutes to kill them The situation is completley stupid - they need nerfing And dont come on my thread doing the whole i dun care im l33t i have no problem as you are not the only one playing the game Lost Dawn Technologies Is Recruiting :D
Ann Mari	Posted - 2006.05.14 19:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Tristan Actually thats wrong, the tank would kill the squirrel in the blink of an eye. And the tree its sat in.... I'm not gonna draw out the debate, but a squirrel running from tree to tree will be faster than a tank's turret can track. So, though a tank can take out a big, non-moving tree, and if the squirrel was stupid enough to stand still, then yes, the squirrel would die. But you can't shoot at anything that you can't point you muzzle to. Originally by: Tristan Same logic with ships, you think a battleship cant hit a frigate at sea? or a dingy for that matter? Bearing in mind that this is a game, and in no way related to real life, if you ever catch some of the old documentaries on the History channel on Naval warfare, they illustrate nicely how difficult if not impossible it was for a big battleship to hit small ships. Hell, it was even difficult for big ass battleships to hit other big ass battle ships. Originally by: Tristan I agree it should be this way, or frigs would be of no use in combat. However it is too far in the favour of the frigs at the moment. They take longer to kill than battleships and cruisers. Which is plainly wrong. And yes using smaller guns to do the job, Still takes too long compared to how fast other ships, costing way way more money pop. Here I'll rely on the devs for a judgement, but I can't see how isk (or even skill) should be a measure of "how difficult it should be to kill a ship". Sounds too much like Wow to me. Invest isk/skill to become immune to noobs. ///End "There can be no justice, if rules are absolute" "The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
Ann Mari	Posted - 2006.05.14 20:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Tehyarec In no form or shape is it planned to be like this. If it would be, why the hell have webifiers anyway if they're useless against frigates? That you can hit and hit and hit and hit a frigate without anything happening to it is insane, plain and simple. If it's webbed, it's slow. If it's slow enough to hit, it sure as hell should take damage as well. That a web prevents an enemy from taking damage is just bull manure. I believe I've seen this in other threads (By you?), and I assume it has been reported as a bug, and as such should be fixed shortly if it can be recreated. ///End "There can be no justice, if rules are absolute" "The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
Naleb Cilani	Posted - 2006.05.14 20:36:00 - [38] Level 4 frigs are easy to kill unless you have no drone skills whatsoever. Quote: if the repeatedly stated (not by players mind you) rules of the game don't agree with your "vision" of what this game ought to be... get lost.
Drew Peacock	Posted - 2006.05.14 20:41:00 - [39] Originally by: Bland Inquisitor we did a angel extrav in 2 domis last nite and in teh end of the stage we had 30 frigs to kill because we kileld everything else and that took 15 minutes to kill them We just did a Angel Extravaganza with a Raven and a Dominix. Raven for big stuff, Dominatrix for the little. No trouble at all. Those little hobgoblins are great, whizzing about and popping frigates with ease. The Domi pilot has amazing drone skills, nearly everything at 5 including Gallente Battleship.
Eudoxia	Posted - 2006.05.14 21:35:00 - [40] I've been doing Missions a lot recently and i have noticed that the frigates are hard to kill with Ogres (no suprise). I went down to using Acolytes and the frigates were destroyed no problem.
Erik Pathfinder	Posted - 2006.05.14 21:40:00 - [41] At OP. Have you considered doing level 4's in a cerberus? It's a worthy skill/isk investment. Those heavy missiles make short work of frigates (and the bigger ships too of course). It usually takes less than 5 volleys which equates to less than 25 secs with my rof. Hope that helps. ---------------
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.05.14 21:44:00 - [42] ive noticed even light missles suck against the elite frigs and thats with guided precision and target navigation prediction to 3
VaderDSL	Posted - 2006.05.14 22:05:00 - [43] Either pulse a low end webifier occasionally to maintain your medium drones tracking, or fit a target painter with light/mediums. They will go down easily then, or fit some small guns
Erik Pathfinder	Posted - 2006.05.14 22:08:00 - [44] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker ive noticed even light missles suck against the elite frigs and thats with guided precision and target navigation prediction to 3 You do realise that elite frigates have serious resistances and hitpoints, right? You wouldnt expect a harpy to go down as fast as a merlin to the same weapon. You would expect it to take a lot more. When you then use oversized weapons, it will only take longer. Everything is working as intended. As for the bug where they take 0 damage, that's a bug to be dealt with (and a bug of this magnitude usually gets killed quick), not an error in design of the large-guns vs small-target coding. ---------------
Brechan Skene	Posted - 2006.05.14 22:25:00 - [45] To whom it concerns, You need to sacrifice one or two hi-slots for anti-frigate mods. I use artilery. So a tech II 220mm or 280mm and a assault launcher will do magic too the npc frgigates. Also use tech II light or medium drones with above and your problem will go away. Thankyou Brechan Skene
Bland Inquisitor	Posted - 2006.05.14 23:50:00 - [46] Look to all the im l33t people stop posting The bottom line is, im sat here with a friend in a domi, im in a domi, we have ten light drones on 6 frigs and they arnt dieing CCP need to fix it, its taken to long to kill these guys It needs to be fixed Lost Dawn Technologies Is Recruiting :D
Pardack	Posted - 2006.05.14 23:52:00 - [47] Edited by: Pardack on 14/05/2006 23:55:31 IMO the only thing that is broke is webbing enemies and your drones not hitting. Other than that everything seems to be working as intended. Big guns dont hit small targets easily - just fit for the situation. Sure it'll take some SPs, so what? Like everything in EVE, there's a trade off. You want "uber" damage, fit big guns - just don't expect them to hit smaller ships. You want to nail the smaller ships? Fit smaller guns, - just don't expect them to do a ton of damage to bigger ships. I really don't see any problem. Smaller, faster ships are harder to hit with bigger weapons. Kit your ship with the right equip and it won't be an issue.
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.05.15 00:13:00 - [48] Originally by: Bland Inquisitor Thanks for all your help have stopped using the webber and using med drones on them and it's really helped Thanks again appreciate it :) Was this a joke or did it really help? Sounds like you're complaining just to complain.
Bland Inquisitor	Posted - 2006.05.15 00:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Angry Alt Edited by: Angry Alt on 15/05/2006 00:17:44 Originally by: Bland Inquisitor Thanks for all your help have stopped using the webber and using med drones on them and it's really helped Thanks again appreciate it :) Was this just a lie or did it really help? Sounds like you're complaining just to complain. First off, post with your main k? Second it did help then i needed more help on weapons. Alts 4tl Lost Dawn Technologies Is Recruiting :D
Captain Napalm	Posted - 2006.05.15 00:34:00 - [50] What exactly do you mean by "takes too long"? I have Drones V and Drone Interfacing IV and have no problems using only drones to elminate the frigates in Angel Ex lvl 4. I just use the light racial damage-specific drones (in this case explosive), send them out while I deal with the bigger ships. And yes, they're tech 1 drones.
ZzeusS	Posted - 2006.05.15 01:22:00 - [51] Everything old is new again. Back when Eve was released, it quickly became apparent that you had to have a battleship or you couldn't survive. They could hit anything. There was none of this transversal business, and it was practically all direct damage. Instant Frig vapor from a Large gun hit. No one else had a chance in .4 and below, and no one except a few pirates were really happy. This current targetting system is the result of a lot of effort from the developers to make Eve a better place for players, and it's working fine.
Argentina	Posted - 2006.05.15 02:50:00 - [52] Originally by: Bland Inquisitor Look to all the im l33t people stop posting The bottom line is, im sat here with a friend in a domi, im in a domi, we have ten light drones on 6 frigs and they arnt dieing CCP need to fix it, its taken to long to kill these guys It needs to be fixed On 6 frigs? No wonder it took so long u... no I'm not gonna swear, but hear this, FOCUS FIRE kill one frig at a time and it will take soooo quicker, because if you only have 1 drone on each frig or by the sound of it 2 drones on some, they do very little damage per second, so they rep, if you put all ur drones on 1 frig at a time they'll pop very quickly. I wish I was in that corp GO GO Gadget Forumpostingalt...
Chemukh	Posted - 2006.05.15 05:49:00 - [53] I use a domi for L4's. Unless there are a bunch of webbers (5 or more) I just let my heavies waste 'em. They make short work of them if you just let the frig get out ahead of the drones, then pulse the web once, then let it wear off. When the frig stops, I fire one volley of my Med rails, and by the time the frig starts to accelerate again it's in pieces. If there are more I pull the heavies in and launch some med drones, simply because it takes heavies so long to move around to get in range of multiple targets.
Tresh Keen	Posted - 2006.05.15 06:30:00 - [54] Edited by: Tresh Keen on 15/05/2006 06:31:12 Originally by: Bland Inquisitor Originally by: Cairo dog Light drones? :D Don't work, tried, they just tank it, i mean they rep all of there armor so quickly Hmm, i kill all frigs with my medium drones (5) - maybe you should skill more drone stuff? And yes, you need to say the drones the target - they are stupid in attacking. Cheers, Tresh
schurem	Posted - 2006.05.15 08:02:00 - [55] Frigs like to orbit you at a set distance. Now if you web them and fly towards them, they will first and foremost try to get back to that distance. They will run away from you, so you end up in a direct tail-chase scenario. Zero tracking problem.... The only downside to this tactic is that you can't be aligned for warpout, so you need to know a little further in advance wether its time to haul a55 It works like a charm, really <<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>> Typhoon for the win. Nastier than whats faster, faster than whats nastier!
Rimhawk	Posted - 2006.05.15 08:14:00 - [56] I ue a combination of cruise missiles and medium drones to kill frigs. Granted my drone skills are pretty good, but they drop like flies. I also NOS the enemy drones, but that's more to get myself some cap, but it may hurt their ability to tank as well (not sure how NOS affects NPC's). Also, if you are using missiles, in encounter missions warp in at 100km or so and take them out with cruises at long range, that works great. One volley per frig. The only time I have a problem with frigs is if they are scrambling me, I'm facing 12 or more frigs, they're backed up by cruisers and BS and they are all in mass agro. Then I can't always kill them quickly enough... Rimhawk V8 Interceptors
Ashelth	Posted - 2006.05.15 08:23:00 - [57] Originally by: Bland Inquisitor Thanks for all your help have stopped using the webber and using med drones on them and it's really helped Thanks again appreciate it :) Yup, webbing the frigs makes the drones orbit it faster than their tracking can handle. No web the drones follow it and transverals is almost 0.
Captain Budwieser	Posted - 2006.05.15 10:14:00 - [58] i have never seen this "webbing bug" im currently soloing lvl 4s in my domi and frigates or intys or what ever get webbed and popped literally in seconds by my light drones even those poxy spider drone IIs that are usually a serious pain in the rear die once webbed, but only with light drones , meds just dont hit them enough webbed or not once you get your skills up T2 lights are really really good
Captain Budwieser	Posted - 2006.05.15 10:18:00 - [59] Edited by: Captain Budwieser on 15/05/2006 10:19:01 Quote: We just did a Angel Extravaganza with a Raven and a Dominix. Raven for big stuff, Dominatrix for the little. No trouble at all. Those little hobgoblins are great, whizzing about and popping frigates with ease. The Domi pilot has amazing drone skills, nearly everything at 5 including Gallente Battleship. those little drones kick serious ass tbh, they can quite easily handle cruisers aswell, if slightly slower than meds but with the bonus of being almost impossible to hit
bohda	Posted - 2006.05.15 11:46:00 - [60] Edited by: bohda on 15/05/2006 11:48:11 I'm a big fan of the Domi and it's little drones. T2 lights work a treat on anything small and there's no real need for a web because they're so damn quick. Have you looked at your fitting as well as skills and drone selection? I only ask because I found a massive improvement to my drones by sticking in a couple of Omni Directional Tracking Links. Running 2 of these, plus a webber I can pop frigates with Garde Sentry drones in short order. They also have the benefit, when combined with Warden Sentry Drones and Range control mods, of pretty much allowing you to "one shot" T1 NPC drones at around 90km. I've found the key to drones is flexibility, don't just always take the same drones, like your tank/rails/lasers/missiles/projectiles they need to be tailored to your enemy. Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques *Oderint Dum Metuant*

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