Originally by: Celestial Manager

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You would think the SHIELD race that is Caldari would know how to make shields more resistant to EM damage moreso than other races..... I mean comeon... why bother with shields as a race if you can't figure out how to make it stronger to it's weakest point (yet the Minmatar's can?) Yes, I understand that Caldari are only faced with Gallente enemies :b but why leave themselves vulnerable? :)

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Originally by: Kailyn

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Don't see how frigates survive an EVE with a heavy rock launcher...

Sounds like one slot can kill frigates dead.

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Quote:

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i heard Jesus was killed by a precision cruise missile

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Originally by: Juan Andalusian

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Quote:

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i heard Jesus was killed by a precision cruise missile

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You confuse Jesus with balance. But that's an improvement actually... 3 days ago you didn't even know what the word meant.

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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Originally by: Juan Andalusian

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Quote:

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i heard Jesus was killed by a precision cruise missile

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You confuse Jesus with balance. But that's an improvement actually... 3 days ago you didn't even know what the word meant.

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ya nothing says imbalance like missile cruisers getting their missing launcher

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Originally by: j0sephine

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"Don't see how frigates survive an EVE with a heavy rock launcher...

Sounds like one slot can kill frigates dead."

Same way they survive heavy missile launcher today?

Just like heavy missiles it's anti-cruiser (assault) weapon, with missiles tuned for cruiser signature radius and speed. Either turn on the mwd and outrun the explosion velocity, or turn the mwd off and enjoy damage reduced to 1/5th or so...

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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and dont you dare think of a new cerb bonus >_<

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Originally by: Tuxford

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Changing the current assault missile launcher to fire the new assault missiles is something I would like to do. I would also like to travel back in time and do it at release but I don't really see it happening. I think its far more likely that a new type will be made as for it being more in line with siege launcher or rockets then I'm thinking it should use slightly less grid than heavy launcher but in all honesty, I haven't started working on this haven't actually scheduled myself some time to do it but its something I really want to do because I don't think missile cruiser are complete without this.

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Originally by: Adrian Kerensky

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Shouldn't heavies be compared with rails, arties and beam lasers? Not blasters, autos and pulse?

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I didn't know cruisers could fire precision cruise missiles.

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Also yay for suggesting to rework, cause changing the bonus as you admitted means reworking, a ship that already works perfectly.

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You still never replied after i made the assesment comparing ishtar and cerb based on usefullness.

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Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

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Anyone who tries to use the Cerb to whine about a short range missile launcher for cruisers pretty much kills their own arguement in one fell swoop.


T2 is not the basis for balance, deal with it. You don't ask to have a weapon type nerfed or not-added at ALL because of one ship, you get the one ship changed if anything.

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Originally by: Crellion

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I read this thread once every two days or so for comic relief:

(1) "shouldnt heavies be compared with rails/artilleries/beams?"
(posted as an argument against the introduction of the short range cruiser size misssle)
... Doh... yeah they should... thats the problem...thats what we are saying here.

(2) "Heavies get 80kms with top skills while turrets need top skills AND ship bonuses to get anywhere near that"
So you have maxed your skills with 250IIs and they give you 80kms on a ship with no bonus and Spike???

(3) "Surely 300DPS that the Cerb does is too much for long range. It must be balanced as a short range weapon so we dont need a short range weapon"

So 300dps too much for long range eh? How much you get from Deimos with 5x250IIs with absolute maxed skills 3 dmg mods (like the 300Cerb) and Void? Antimmater? Spike? How much DPS from a Zealot with 3 dmg mods and techII heavy beams? A munnin with 3 dmg mods and 720IIs? Kthnxbye.

(4) "A-HA!!!" "But the Deimos Zealot Munnin cant fit 3 dmg mods and unber tank!!!!!!!!!!1111"

Correct. The Deimos - Zealot - Munnin can actually fit 3 tackling/speed slots, 3 damage mods and a 3 slot tank. Cerb can fit 3 tackling slots 3 damage mods and a 3 slot tank (2 mids and a dmg control)

(5) "But-but-but... hang on a second. A close range missle would do 400 DPS at liek 30km on a Cerberus"

Seems so yeah... So thats worse than the Deimos doing 800-ish at 5km (of whitch a good amount at 45km -5 techII drones- Cerb has 0 drones)? Is it worse than the DPS that the Zealot gets with long range pulse ammo at same range? Is it better than the DPS of 5 techII heavies on an Ishtar at much longer range?

PLEASE BE SERIOUS

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Originally by: Crellion

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I read this thread once every two days or so for comic relief:

(1) "shouldnt heavies be compared with rails/artilleries/beams?"
(posted as an argument against the introduction of the short range cruiser size misssle)
... Doh... yeah they should... thats the problem...thats what we are saying here.

(2) "Heavies get 80kms with top skills while turrets need top skills AND ship bonuses to get anywhere near that"
So you have maxed your skills with 250IIs and they give you 80kms on a ship with no bonus and Spike???

(3) "Surely 300DPS that the Cerb does is too much for long range. It must be balanced as a short range weapon so we dont need a short range weapon"

So 300dps too much for long range eh? How much you get from Deimos with 5x250IIs with absolute maxed skills 3 dmg mods (like the 300Cerb) and Void? Antimmater? Spike? How much DPS from a Zealot with 3 dmg mods and techII heavy beams? A munnin with 3 dmg mods and 720IIs? Kthnxbye.

(4) "A-HA!!!" "But the Deimos Zealot Munnin cant fit 3 dmg mods and unber tank!!!!!!!!!!1111"

Correct. The Deimos - Zealot - Munnin can actually fit 3 tackling/speed slots, 3 damage mods and a 3 slot tank. Cerb can fit 3 tackling slots 3 damage mods and a 3 slot tank (2 mids and a dmg control)

(5) "But-but-but... hang on a second. A close range missle would do 400 DPS at liek 30km on a Cerberus"

Seems so yeah... So thats worse than the Deimos doing 800-ish at 5km (of whitch a good amount at 45km -5 techII drones- Cerb has 0 drones)? Is it worse than the DPS that the Zealot gets with long range pulse ammo at same range? Is it better than the DPS of 5 techII heavies on an Ishtar at much longer range?

PLEASE BE SERIOUS

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Originally by: Crellion

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I read this thread once every two days or so for comic relief:

(1) "shouldnt heavies be compared with rails/artilleries/beams?"
(posted as an argument against the introduction of the short range cruiser size misssle)
... Doh... yeah they should... thats the problem...thats what we are saying here.

(2) "Heavies get 80kms with top skills while turrets need top skills AND ship bonuses to get anywhere near that"
So you have maxed your skills with 250IIs and they give you 80kms on a ship with no bonus and Spike???

(3) "Surely 300DPS that the Cerb does is too much for long range. It must be balanced as a short range weapon so we dont need a short range weapon"

So 300dps too much for long range eh? How much you get from Deimos with 5x250IIs with absolute maxed skills 3 dmg mods (like the 300Cerb) and Void? Antimmater? Spike? How much DPS from a Zealot with 3 dmg mods and techII heavy beams? A munnin with 3 dmg mods and 720IIs? Kthnxbye.

(4) "A-HA!!!" "But the Deimos Zealot Munnin cant fit 3 dmg mods and unber tank!!!!!!!!!!1111"

Correct. The Deimos - Zealot - Munnin can actually fit 3 tackling/speed slots, 3 damage mods and a 3 slot tank. Cerb can fit 3 tackling slots 3 damage mods and a 3 slot tank (2 mids and a dmg control)

(5) "But-but-but... hang on a second. A close range missle would do 400 DPS at liek 30km on a Cerberus"

Seems so yeah... So thats worse than the Deimos doing 800-ish at 5km (of whitch a good amount at 45km -5 techII drones- Cerb has 0 drones)? Is it worse than the DPS that the Zealot gets with long range pulse ammo at same range? Is it better than the DPS of 5 techII heavies on an Ishtar at much longer range?

PLEASE BE SERIOUS

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Originally by: j0sephine

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Edited by: j0sephine on 19/05/2006 18:48:34

"Long range turrets do not do much to any dmg up close..."

Web and matching the other ship's heading work nicely together. In fact, quite a bit of complaint in the blaster threads is about long range turrets hitting "too good" at short weapon ranges...


"720 IIs on a Munin (requiring a fitting mod, lacking ANY TANK WHATSOEVER.. unlike your Cerberus) do approx 360dps. Yeah 360dps."

Since Muninn lacks any actual damage bonus, it's not surprising (the 5% rof + damage is the standard set to bring projectiles just up to par with other weapons. Any actual damage bonus would have to be applied on top of it, but Muninn gets optimal and tracking boosts instead) ... in fact, you're pretty much making the point for the other side -- a long range turret ship with no real damage bonus can outdamage by quite a margin missile HAC with 2 boosts to damage.


"According to quickfit (could be wrong), a Cerberus with fury missiles should be able to over 410 dps to cruiser sized targets..."

And entirely kill her capacitor recharge in the process. Btw, what ammo was used to get that 360 dps from Muninn..?

edit: running numbers it looks like Cerberus with max skills, 3 damage mods etc... would do ~355 dps with kinetic high damage heavies rather than 410. It might be i made some error here though, am a bit in a hurry so can't double-check.

edit 2: bleh did re-check after all. didn't include the specialization bonus, so that's up to 392 or so.

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Originally by: Sevi Rekior

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would make sense to have a cruiser-class "rocket"
and while they're at it change skill requirements for T2 launchers, have T2 torps require T2 rockets and T2 heavy rockets. or change the gunnery requirements to not need their frig and cruiser T2 guns to get to bs T2 guns.

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Originally by: Angelic Resolution

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Originally by: Sevi Rekior

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would make sense to have a cruiser-class "rocket"
and while they're at it change skill requirements for T2 launchers, have T2 torps require T2 rockets and T2 heavy rockets. or change the gunnery requirements to not need their frig and cruiser T2 guns to get to bs T2 guns.

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I actually thought about this a couple of days ago and remebered: I can hit at 80km's and this is the result:

2006.05.19 18:44:05 combat Your Tachyon Anode Particle Stream I perfectly strikes Guristas Obliterator, wrecking for 880.5 damage.

Missiles can't do that. Imagine T2 guns.. they'll out hit and out dmg when trained up. Missiles are (And yes this is meant to offend those who sit in ravens and just spam torps/cruise without even trying to get them better) a noobies choice weapon. Why? Target, press f1 and if you've timed it right you get a hit. T2 turrets are far superior to missiles IMO, sure you gotta put up with tracking but so what. In fleet battles you warp in at +80km's and let lose. If it's 1 vs 1 same thing and if a pirate jumps you.. well drones FTW aye? (Unless it's a blasterthron or something).

Personally I think it's a tad *** that we do have to spend a mount getting our stuff up. But at least after it's done we can train for those lovely t2 ships and be able to use em properly straight out of the box. Although the extra month or two is wierd, it'll be worth it. I personally look forward to training up my AF skills then going for T2 tachyons and wreacking for 3k dmg at 50km's.

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Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda

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Um, be a little more realistic with the chances for a wrecking hit please. It doesn't just happen on NPCs, it happens on everything.

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