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DaReaper
Net 7
The Last Brigade
409
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Posted - 2014.04.23 18:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
People nee to realize that only four things will drive plex prices down:
1) unhooking Aurum from plex.
2) flooding the market with more plex (law of supply and demand)
3) people stop using plex (law of supply and demand)
4) CCP makes plex and NPC bought item (this though completely messes with the entire idea of what a plex actually is.)
That's is, basic econ. Complaining about prices won't help, you want to lower prices? Pull your your CC and buy as much plex for cash as you can and flood the market. |
fudface
ACME-INC
37
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Posted - 2014.04.23 21:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Hevymetal wrote:Not that I am advocating it, because I am not. But what if CCP said "Enough" we have RMT under control, we need more influx of cash and we are tired of dealing with the additional hassles that PLEX create.
No more playing without paying. AUR, resculpting and transfers are only availanle through cash payments.
What would the ramifications be?
Other then forum threadnaughts and an initial decrease in the active players.
Would CCP actually make more money in the end? Would the playerbase be reduced by 20% or more? How would it effect you?
if i could not pay the game time with isk i would not be playing. i dont have the real life money to justify paying for an internet spaceship game. remove plex and you remove me from playing.
my 2 isk worth |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
877
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Posted - 2014.04.23 21:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
A certain downtown area near where I live had an issue with parking (not enough of it). So, the city passed a law that each business had to provide sufficient parking for its establishment, and if they could not provide it on their own property, they could rent from others that ran parking not businesses, or if not that, they'd be taxed to pay for the city built parking garages.
A decade later, the parking problem is gone. Some people expanded the lots on their property, some buildings got torn down and turned into private lots that business rent. and the city built lots that are paid for with the tax.
Now that there is no parking problem, some of the business owners have suggested revoking the law.... so that they can build into the area that it currently their lot, or make their business more profitable by not having to pay for private or city owned parking lots.....
As if the problem would not come right back, if the law that fixed it were revoked!
IF, and that is a huge IF, RMT is under control, then it is only because their is a mechanism in game where you can pay real money and get ISK in return. Remove that "legal" mechanism for converting real money into ISK, and RMT would again EXPLODE!
And, would there be any rules against a freindly agreement between me and another player? He pays my subscription and I hand him 700 million ISK a month? Becuase that is effectivly all the PLEX mechanism is. I give you ISK, and you pay for my subscrition so that I can grind the ISK for you, so that you do not have to grind it yourself.
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2486
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Posted - 2014.04.23 21:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
A world without bot miners, tritanium selling for 50ISK a unit, and the few at-keyboard miners who remain (such as myself) sitting on solid gold toilets by the end of the year.
Oh well... it was a good dream.
Nullsec in a Nutshell:
http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
2750
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 22:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
Hevymetal wrote:Not that I am advocating it, because I am not. But what if CCP said "Enough" we have RMT under control, we need more influx of cash and we are tired of dealing with the additional hassles that PLEX create.
No more playing without paying. AUR, resculpting and transfers are only availanle through cash payments.
What would the ramifications be?
Other then forum threadnaughts and an initial decrease in the active players.
Would CCP actually make more money in the end? Would the playerbase be reduced by 20% or more? How would it effect you?
You see; this will never happen, primarily because there are enough people that buy a 'whole lot' of plex that would not all of a sudden make new accounts. I hazard that people primarily use plex for isk injection and not account subs. You know why I say this. I say it because of the little note at the bottom of the plex purchase page.
Just so you do not need to log in to find it I will post it right here for you.
"Those interested in purchasing packages containing 300 or more PLEX may email us at [email protected]."
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
1642
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 22:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:People nee to realize that only four things will drive plex prices down:
1) unhooking Aurum from plex.
2) flooding the market with more plex (law of supply and demand)
3) people stop using plex (law of supply and demand)
4) CCP makes plex and NPC bought item (this though completely messes with the entire idea of what a plex actually is.)
That's is, basic econ. Complaining about prices won't help, you want to lower prices? Pull your your CC and buy as much plex for cash as you can and flood the market.
I recommend none of these suggestions, because anything that makes it harder to sub 50 accounts for belt-clearing one-player isoboxer fleets or those botting asshats, is completely supported by me and pretty much everyone else that actually cares about this game.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
621
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 22:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
Eliminating PLEX would mainly disadvantage the new players with little play time who use PLEX to get some leverage into the game. It would also effect hardcore PvPers who pay with subs and use PLEX to replace their ship losses. |
Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
1708
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 16:33:00 -
[68] - Quote
Wouldn't affect me at all.
Always seen PLEX as a luxury, a useful tool when the price was right.
The price is no longer right, but that's okay -- because I'm not dependant on trading ISK for PLEX to keep my accounts going.
And neither should anyone else. Sub prices haven't changed much at all over the years (aside from currency exchange costs) but PLEX prices are nearly at 750mil from an approximate starting "value" of 300mil several years ago.
Do the math, PLEX have outlived their usefulness to the average player.
And if you can't afford 15$ or 15E to play every month (or whatever it costs), well, such is life.
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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Belt Scout
Forum alts make you mad
330
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Posted - 2014.04.27 05:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:DaReaper wrote:People nee to realize that only four things will drive plex prices down:
1) unhooking Aurum from plex.
2) flooding the market with more plex (law of supply and demand)
3) people stop using plex (law of supply and demand)
4) CCP makes plex and NPC bought item (this though completely messes with the entire idea of what a plex actually is.)
That's is, basic econ. Complaining about prices won't help, you want to lower prices? Pull your your CC and buy as much plex for cash as you can and flood the market. I recommend none of these suggestions, because anything that makes it harder to sub 50 accounts for belt-clearing one-player isoboxer fleets or those botting asshats, is completely supported by me and pretty much everyone else that actually cares about this game.
Oh boo hoo.
Point to the spot on the ice asteroid dolly where those 40 bad Procurers touched you.
.
EVE's only legitimate ISK halving service. I have 500Billion to not give away. It's easy for you to double my money. Just send me some isk, has to be 100Mil or higher, and I will send you back half. I can't lose. One guaranteed winner every round. Do it now. |
PizzaGirlDeepDish
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 06:13:00 -
[70] - Quote
Plex was the smartest thing CCP ever did to fight back against real money traders. If they got rid of Plex then eve would die. |
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Tweek Etimua
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2014.04.27 06:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
One great thing that would happen is, alot of alts would die. And players would be forced to use other real players for things like hauling.
Bad thing that would happen is that my pvp would hault. |
Ralen Zateki
Nexis.
League of Infamy
175
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 07:35:00 -
[72] - Quote
If CCP did away with PLEX would I still be able to buy cake? Cuz I like cake... a lot. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1372
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 13:14:00 -
[73] - Quote
Hevymetal wrote:How would it effect you?
affect, not effect.
I'd go back from 4 accounts (one of which has two characters training) to a single account.
I doubt that I'd quit EVE entirely but it's likely I would handle it the same way I do WoW, FFXIV, GW2, WoT, ... i.e. play (and subscribe) for a month or two after major updates, then get bored and switch to something else. |
Cpt Swagg
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2014.04.27 13:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
You are dumber than I previously thought. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
Council of Peace and Prosperity
3655
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 13:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
Why DO birds
Suddenly Appear!?
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1***
"They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn
"Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Quaggan Stomp
The Milkmen
Ideal Society
10
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Posted - 2014.04.27 21:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
Hevymetal wrote:Not that I am advocating it, because I am not. But what if CCP said "Enough" we have RMT under control, we need more influx of cash and we are tired of dealing with the additional hassles that PLEX create.
No more playing without paying. AUR, resculpting and transfers are only availanle through cash payments.
What would the ramifications be?
Other then forum threadnaughts and an initial decrease in the active players.
Would CCP actually make more money in the end? Would the playerbase be reduced by 20% or more? How would it effect you?
I would love for this to happen but its too late. At this point they are far better off making a sequel to this game and without PLEX, and in fact, I think they should.
I support anything and everything that goes towards getting rid of multi-boxing, stupid alting (cyno alts, scanning alts, mining alts, anl alts, crapping alts, etc.) and botting.
This MMO demotes teamplay and social interaction via Plex functionality, this is a huge chunk of the multitude of reasons why it never made it to be one of the games at the top of the heap. Which is a real shame, because its a nice game, just needs to get rid of the outdated stuff and crap like PLEX.
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks
Executive Outcomes
1093
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 21:20:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
The hassles only bother accountants, and no-one cares about them.
No it doesn't.
USing accrual accounting any income over the accounting period is recognised on the accounting books at the point of sale. Meaning that as soon as you buy a PLEX I record it as a sale. Subscriptions are similarly recorded as they are sold, so if I buy 3 months of game time every 3 months then that gets recognised once every 3 months, not once a month.
Accountants literally don't care how you pay money to CCP, and in fact this is probably one of the simplest things to account for.
CCP's R&D spend is probably the area that accountants have the most difficulty with as they need to decide whether they can/will capitalise R&D spend spreading the cost out over multiple years rather than 1 payment.
Of course, you'd know all that sort of stuff before making comments like that wouldn't you?
If CCP got rid of PLEX they'd realistically take a drop in income, as not every player who buys PLEX does so to PLEX their account. Whether or not this would improve the game as you'd see a drastic reduction in the number of people with like 12 alts is a matter of opinion.
If you're of the opinion that this game would be better if everyone had less alts (which I am) it is plausible that by getting rid of PLEX you'd improve the game, thus leading to an increase in subscriptions.
"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4966
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 21:31:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Why DO birds
Suddenly Appear!?
They long to be close to you.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Marsha Mallow
403
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Posted - 2014.04.27 21:39:00 -
[79] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:Tippia wrote:
The hassles only bother accountants, and no-one cares about them.
No it doesn't. *Drivel* Especially: Accountants literally don't care how you pay money to CCP, and in fact this is probably one of the simplest things to account for.
Now, I already knew you are thick as pigshit, but please don't drag us all into your blackhole of silliness.
Nobody cares about accountants in Eve, and rightly so. They're incredible narrowminded and violently foolish, which you just proved with those remarks. Although I suspect you are a book-keeper, or a 'QBE' eh.
They can't form a reliable accrual system for plex. It's a persistent and volatile liability. You do understand the difference between assets and liablities ye? Accruals refer to bills you expect and budget for, not cash in hand for unpaid services. Bad debt write-offs being the reverse.
This has been discussed before in MD at length via people with :brain:, I suggest you go there so they can slap you up and down. Cos, you seem to enjoy it. And I really can't be arsed
If you feel violated, harassed, tormented, just a bit emo - please send a letter to the CSM of the people, our beloved Ripard Teg. He will avenge you in his chariot-blog which is immune to the rules we are on the Eve-O websites, via clever utilisation of the rhetorical technique known as 'the harangue'. Demi-god. Angel. Superhero. Callsign #TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:06:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Why DO birds
Suddenly Appear!?
As opposed to "With the birds I share this lonely view " ? |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21349
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 04:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:No it doesn't. Yes it does, for the reasons Marsha point out and then some. Accountants do more than just count cash, you knowGǪ
So they care a fair bit about both how you pay CCP (since different methods incur different risks) and what you pay CCP for. A time-unlimited call option for a number of different-valued services, and the liabilities this creates, has to be handled differently from a direct one-time payment for an immediate one-time service.
Of course, you'd know all that sort of stuff before making comments like that wouldn't you? Or maybe notGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks
Executive Outcomes
1094
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:32:00 -
[82] - Quote
Are you two serious?
How on earth is PLEX a liability by anyone's stretch of accounting definitions? Liabilities are money owed by CCP, when someone buys a PLEX it is NOT considered a form of debt that CCP owes anyone. If there a billion PLEX bought but not used that isn't a liability, if CCP shut down tomorrow players owning PLEX would be no where on the list of debtors that need paying.
You both don't have a clue what you're on about,international accounting standards are that you recognise a sale as soon as it's made, not when you receive the payment. As soon as someone buys a PLEX using real life money, the value of that sale needs to be recorded on the P&L. The income received from this is in the form of cash, which when you produce a balance sheet would be in the form of retained profit (if there is profit). Do you honestly believe PLEX is featured as a liability on CCPs balance sheet?
You should try reading CCP's balance sheet and then their terms and conditions. Everything you own in the game, including PLEX you have purchased, do not belong to you, they belong to CCP. You have not got a promise of services that you can reclaim at any point during the future, you have bought an item which is in a game which belongs to CCP.
If you both believe CCP is recording PLEX as liabilties I suggest you both go back to whatever school taught you your accounting, if you even went to one.
"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21349
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:35:00 -
[83] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:How on earth is PLEX a liability by anyone's stretch of accounting definitions?
It is an obligation to provide a yet unknown service at some point in the future.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
643
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:24:00 -
[84] - Quote
Online assets are being increasingly recognised by courts in a range of jurisdiction as genuine assets and in several cases the conditions of the EULA have been ruled irrelevant by the courts in question.
You can write whatever you want in a contract or EULA. Whether it actually means anything in terms of legal risk and obligation or is just legalese mumbo jumbo will depend entirely on how it is seen by a relevant court.
Clearly in the case of insolvency secured creditors get first rights to compensation. After that it gets messy, detinue is probably not relevant but recovery in equity may be. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
439
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Posted - 2014.04.28 12:35:00 -
[85] - Quote
Think of PLEX as gift cards.
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Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
94
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Posted - 2014.04.28 12:38:00 -
[86] - Quote
a lot of alts would loose their purpose.
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Meryl Scarlett
Just a Ride
20
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Posted - 2014.04.28 12:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
I don't agree with removing PLEX, but I do agree that the price is effing ridiculous, when in comparison, it was like 200-300 million ISK back when I started playing 2009. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
4574
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:49:00 -
[88] - Quote
Some people, apparently OP included, don't quite seem to grasp how PLEX actually works. I will attempt, then, to explain it without sounding too patronising.
1. I, spending roughly -ú15 of my actual IRL money, buy a PLEX from CCP. It appears in my in-game redeemable items.
2. I redeem it, thus creating a PLEX item in the game world which can be traded, sold, transported and indeed destroyed just like any other in-game item. It is a unique instance of the PLEX item tracked by EVE's databases.
3. I decide to put it on the market and sell it for the price of 700m ISK, at which point Urist McSpacePilot decides to buy it from me.
4. Urist McSpacePilot redeems the PLEX, adding 30 days of game time to his account. The PLEX item disappears permanently. That specific instance of PLEX In the database will never be issued again.
Essentially, then, what has just happened is that I have paid CCP -ú15 on behalf of Urist McSpacePilot to give him 30 days of game time via a method approved of via CCP, and Urist McSpacePilot has given me 700m internet spacebucks for that privilege. Once CCP has received my -ú15 they don't actually care what happens to the in-game item - that isn't their concern, as long as I'm not using it in an attempt to launder illegally-acquired RMT money. They are under no obligation to ensure that I get a fair deal for it - Urist McSpacePilot could have paid me 200 billion or swiped it out of a corp hangar I'd left it in for all they care. They don't even care if it's ever redeemed or not - in fact, if it's destroyed, that's money they've obtained that they then do not have to spend on providing server space for the individuals that bought the PLEX. Equally, neither I nor Urist McSpacePilot actually care about each other whatsoever - I only want someone to pay 700m for my PLEX and don't care who it is, and he only wants a PLEX to give him 30 days of game time and doesn't care who he gets it from.
At no point does CCP ever lose (or, more correctly, fail to gain) money from this - everyone character's game time has been paid for by someone in real life cash. CCP's revenue stream remains intact, and it remains a simple, easy method of exercising control over EVE Online's "secondary market" - i.e. third-party trading of its in-game currency. As long as there is a legal, CCP-regulated, relatively simple method of translating real life currency into ISK, people will generally prefer it to unauthorised RMT.
Mane 614
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
Council of Peace and Prosperity
3697
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 12:51:00 -
[89] - Quote
What if...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNXWMHu9An0
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1***
"They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn
"Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Earthan
Infinite Point
Nulli Secunda
2
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Posted - 2014.04.28 19:22:00 -
[90] - Quote
To be honest for me an ideal situation would be if there was no PLEX and no RMT of anykind.
I remember in early days of Eve when server had 3000 poeple max on primetime, and it was a niche enough game that RMT was not really heard off and ofc there was no plexes. Me perosnally i enjoyed the game considerably more , as each ship was a real loss and it mattered not only how you fought but how smart yuo were in earning isk.And no , for many poeple from richer countries loosing a few plexes of ships value per month isnt any problem, no loss feeling.
Nowadays, with my little time, to keep up with everybody buiyng plexes, i buy them too, but for me the game has lost alot of its magic because of this.
Ofc since RMT can never be controlled with current technology, then current situation and PLEX is the lesser evil i guess. |
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