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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Hoshi Khanid
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:54:00 -
[1]
OK, let me say first. I am not talking about piracy in any form. What I am talking about is the myrid of scams and thefts that are happening within Eve. Which while not exactly an exploit, they leave the victim with no legel way to get revenge.
I don't have a problem as such with either scamming or theft, it all adds to the rich tapestry of Eve. But if pirates have to put up with restrictions and the knowledge that eventually there will be somebody, somewhere hunting them down, then so should everybody who decides to follow a criminal route
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Helmut 314
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:55:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Helmut 314 on 18/05/2006 11:55:26
Thats the way eve works. Most scams and thievery can be avoided by being careful. The remainder is part of the game. Think of it as everyone in this game having a chaotic evil personality...
JHENR is recruiting.
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Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
fairimear
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: fairimear on 18/05/2006 11:57:04
boho, welcome to the real world
and pirates very rearly get revenge handed to them.
o btw have you never heard of war dec, you get your corp to vote on it then you declare the theifs next corp as the taregt, then you fit guns and go kill them.
scams are easy to avoid and falling for 1 is entirly your own fault
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.05.18 11:58:00 -
[4]
Hmm.. no legal ways of getting back at the bastard. Lets see.
1: Scam back.
2: Steal back.
3: Declare war on the bastard.
4: Hire GHSC to do the evil deed of robbing the bastard blind (they are good at it, i know  ).
5: Hire some mercs to hunt and hurt him in anyways they can.
6: INSPECT the merchantdize before you claim it (escrow)
7: Don't give people access to your high value items
Thats just at the top of my head. 
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:03:00 -
[5]
your topic and post contradict each other
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:07:00 -
[6]
Ultimately no-one can force you to be scammed.
The victim is only a victim because they did something wrong.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Bowwow Meow
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:15:00 -
[7]
Consider for a second, the only reason anyone in this game gets scammed is because they are stupid.
It is not against the rules of this game to prey on other peoples lack of intelligence.
The only problem with scamming is that there is no way to know who actually scammed you. It is far too easy to run a scam and then send the ALT to the recycler, avoiding all responsibility for that scam. I would love to see a way to track alts so that when you get scammed you can work out whose main it is, and 'thank' them personally.
If I ever got scammed, rather than be annoyed that fell victim to a moment of stupidity, I would be more annoyed that it is now impossible for me to get back at that person because they just instantly dissapear.
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Uther Doull
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:29:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Hoshi Khanid
I don't have a problem as such with either scamming or theft, it all adds to the rich tapestry of Eve. But if pirates have to put up with restrictions and the knowledge that eventually there will be somebody, somewhere hunting them down, then so should everybody who decides to follow a criminal route
the solution to that don't ban scamming, but give victims tools to get even and hold the scammers accountable. THAT'S the problem atm, with alts and all that
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Drew Peacock
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: fairimear
and pirates very rearly get revenge handed to them.
Wow, how so? Smacked bottie or something more pointed.
Originally by: fairimear
scams are easy to avoid and falling for 1 is entirly your own fault
This attitude makes the life of a scammer so much eaiser. Go read about the exploits of the GHSC and see the care that the best ones take.
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:54:00 -
[10]
-k-s- the training corp I run recently had a theft, all the items in the recruits hanger were taken (lowest level hanger). Now to be quite honest we only fly frigates, and they are kept in higher up hangers, save 3-4 in the rectuits. The total loss cant have been much over 2-3mil. What irks me is that eve is sorely lacks a decent method for working out who took what and when.
For me the loss isnt about the isk. Its about the inonvenience and the breech of trust. Now recruits need to have modules ships and ammo passed to them instead of being trusted to take them & I cant with good confidence promote people knowing we have a thief in our midst.
I dont see the point in making such offences banable, with good security measures you can prevent most thefts. What I want is good logging of hangers & a little accountability. Something thats quite hard with alts about.
Now Recruiting |
Corunna ElMan
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Posted - 2006.05.18 12:57:00 -
[11]
Scammers are no more reprehensible than impulsive people who lack common sense.
If you get taken in, you're only the victim of your own foolishness.
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"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown |
Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:02:00 -
[12]
I disagree. The most effective pvp corps tend to have a ship program of some kind. The most effective industrial corps share resources. There will always be a need for shared assets and as such there is always room for people to take advantage and steal. This I dont have a problem with.
I just have a problem with the lack of tools required to work out who took your stuff (especially when its a low level hanger available to 90% of your corp and the items are as common as mud)
Now Recruiting |
Sonorra Baki
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:03:00 -
[13]
Accountability in eve is non existant. We got it in PvP, but alts make it far to easy to scam and scram.
That said, I like nice scamming schemes and people who actually makes it a profession, and dont think it scamming should be disallowed.
Its just unfair that most scammers dont put anything on the line. The reward can be immensely high, but the risk is low = Create new alt.
GHSC is an example of real scamming, with your char on the line. Escrow scamming is an example of a chance to earn billions with no risk.
This may not be work safe  -Capsicum |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:05:00 -
[14]
No.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:10:00 -
[15]
To be perfectly clear I dont think it should be banable, the issue does need looking at and some sort of accountability introduced.
Now Recruiting |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:18:00 -
[16]
So instead of taking the smart route and proposing some game mechanic that allows recourse (alt accountability etc)
you simply propose to burden the GM's with protecting idiots that buy a shuttle dressed up as a freighter on escrow.
Heres a tip
>>Think about the implications of your *bright idea* before you post<<
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Uther Doull
Originally by: Hoshi Khanid
I don't have a problem as such with either scamming or theft, it all adds to the rich tapestry of Eve. But if pirates have to put up with restrictions and the knowledge that eventually there will be somebody, somewhere hunting them down, then so should everybody who decides to follow a criminal route
the solution to that don't ban scamming, but give victims tools to get even and hold the scammers accountable. THAT'S the problem atm, with alts and all that
correct.
Alts are the issue, not mains. Mains can be retaliated at, alts can not. CCP needs to let us research alts and try to discover who the mains are that profit in the end.
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Hoshi Khanid
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bowwow Meow
Consider for a second, the only reason anyone in this game gets scammed is because they are stupid.
It is not against the rules of this game to prey on other peoples lack of intelligence.
The only problem with scamming is that there is no way to know who actually scammed you. It is far too easy to run a scam and then send the ALT to the recycler, avoiding all responsibility for that scam. I would love to see a way to track alts so that when you get scammed you can work out whose main it is, and 'thank' them personally.
If I ever got scammed, rather than be annoyed that fell victim to a moment of stupidity, I would be more annoyed that it is now impossible for me to get back at that person because they just instantly dissapear.
The latter part of this is exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's not the actual scamming I have a problem with, it's the style of play with no recourse for revenge. Yes, as some say, you can wardeck them, but how do you wardeck a starter corp? how do you wardeck an alt who is killed off after the scam?
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Vegati Daxx
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:35:00 -
[19]
You have every possible tool to not get scammed.. if you still get scammed then only you are to be blaimed for your own actions, trusting someone with corp rights/loans, not inspecting escrows before claiming.
Its not that fricking hard..
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:40:00 -
[20]
So what youre saying is, youre not smart enough to protect yourself from being scammed, so Mr GM, wtfpwn these guys for me
Of course people whine, its cause your sig sucks
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Hoshi Khanid
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vegati Daxx
You have every possible tool to not get scammed.. if you still get scammed then only you are to be blaimed for your own actions, trusting someone with corp rights/loans, not inspecting escrows before claiming.
Its not that fricking hard..
OK, first can I say, this is not a comment against just you Vegati. But again, this is something I have an issue with. The eagerness to blame victims here. Would you blame a woman who gets assaulted in real life for being out at night, or me for getting burgled because I forgot to lock my house door as I go to work?
The fact is, most who get scammed in Eve are new players still finding their feet. I think this is made worse by the fact that, on the whole Eve players are generally amongst some of the most friendly and helpful towards new players
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Vogon
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:49:00 -
[22]
But if you make scamming and theft bannable, what will I do for a living?
www.vogon.homestead.com
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Ediz Daxx
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hoshi Khanid
Originally by: Vegati Daxx
You have every possible tool to not get scammed.. if you still get scammed then only you are to be blaimed for your own actions, trusting someone with corp rights/loans, not inspecting escrows before claiming.
Its not that fricking hard..
OK, first can I say, this is not a comment against just you Vegati. But again, this is something I have an issue with. The eagerness to blame victims here. Would you blame a woman who gets assaulted in real life for being out at night, or me for getting burgled because I forgot to lock my house door as I go to work?
The fact is, most who get scammed in Eve are new players still finding their feet. I think this is made worse by the fact that, on the whole Eve players are generally amongst some of the most friendly and helpful towards new players
I really dont see how a assaulted woman in RL have anything to do with EVE scammings. But the second one is pretty much whats EVE scamming is about. YOU forgot to lock your door on your way to work(YOU did not inspect a escrow before claiming it)
And since this is a game and not RL, YOU have to make sure that the person that scammed you gets killed a billion times by a merc corp or whatever.
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Plutoinum
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:51:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 18/05/2006 13:51:39
You can avoid to be scammed. Nothing more to say about it. Although escrow scams are annoying apm, people just have to read to avoid to get scammed.
Corp theft is annoying too, especially if you really thought that the thief was something like a real friend. Then this betrayal feels the same like in RL. It's disgusting, but you can't just make it illegal. This will just end in a lot of petitions and discussion with GMs.
I'd like to see a log for the corp hangars. So that you see, who took that corp ship etc.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:52:00 -
[25]
I hereby veto this proposition.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:53:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/05/2006 13:55:15
Personally i think scamming is pretty fun and keeps everybody on their toes.
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Flyyn
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:53:00 -
[27]
You know, you can assymble a station vault rename it, and dont lock it,turn on the logs. Everyone has access, and everything that is removed or placed inside the vault recorded.
These tools not only let you know who took what, but allows better control over inventory. Who took all that ammo? Who removed the BPC? Who is the one placeing all this junk in here?
CCP has supplied us with ALL the tools needed to prevent corp theft.
Scams on the other hand, well if you think its a good deal...then it probably aint.
Dont mind me I am just trying to catch up to DS and HK on the boards.... |
Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2006.05.18 13:54:00 -
[28]
been racking my brain on corp theft and how to make people accountable.
new skill/agent service -- account hacking
a service or skill that allows you to view balance transfers and trades going back X months. Better the skill or agent the larger X is
Now Recruiting |
Tristan Acoma
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Posted - 2006.05.18 14:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Eddie Gordo
been racking my brain on corp theft and how to make people accountable.
new skill/agent service -- account hacking
a service or skill that allows you to view balance transfers and trades going back X months. Better the skill or agent the larger X is
That could be useful on so many levels - the espionage part of this game could become so much more refined :) Bugs, trackers, etc.
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Hoshi Mandella
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Posted - 2006.05.18 14:56:00 -
[30]
in real life you usually have authorities to go to when scammed, in EVE no NPC is going to listen to you. Unless he has a negative security status you can't bounty and since a lot of scams are done on alts, telling people to blacklist a thief/scammer doesn't do much good. Not that I think banning people would be any better, but it still isn't like "real life".
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