*facepalm*

Greetings

Let us try and keep on topic with this one guys. You might ask something like, without Ratts in the belts you encourage AFK mining what might your trade off be?

Help keep the forums alive, post constructively.

On On

LOL. "Force miners into nullsec".

The only place you can "force" miners to go is WoW. They're too stubborn and defiant and childish for anything else.

Since belts is no longer the primary source of PVE income for null, there is really no reason to have the battleship spawns anymore.

Since belts is no longer the primary source of PVE income for null, there is really no reason to have the battleship spawns anymore. Reducing the spawn size to frigate, cruisers and battlecruisers. This would make it more durable for miners, while still not promoting AFK mining.

As a twist, faction spawns and officer spawns should still appear in the former glory in both asteroid belts and grav sites, this reduces the average risk but if you are not carefull a faction spawn with escorts will clear the field of any miners that are not carefull.

Well, I'd like to remove static belts, so ratting would have to be moved to anomalies anyway. Guess standard anomalies in 0.0 are too high tier to accommodate the ratting playstyle, so maybe placing System Landmarks instead of static belts that produce ratting content. Those would also provide a opportunity to create uniqueness and maybe hints of history to systems.

So replace static belts with static landmarks, which clutter the overview and are easily camped? Let me think ... nay.

They are easier to camp and raid, especially for roaming gangs. Since you have them in your overview, you can see at a glance the range from your current position and don't need to switch between Dscan and probe scan; thus you can easier determine where people are. As one scenario, but I guess that easier PVP is all well with CCP, who needs to pander all the newbie PVPers out there and make it more accessible.

Your argument has zero substance because static belts are just exactly that *right now*.

LOL. "Force miners into nullsec".

The only place you can "force" miners to go is WoW. They're too stubborn and defiant and childish for anything else.

Get rid of rats in belts and grav sites.

Do miners want them there? I seriously doubt it.

Give belt ratters some ratting equivalent to the belts they'd lose.

The reason I think this would get more miners into null is because without rats, they can mine in as small a ship as they like (with the normal trade-off of mining capacity).

Hesitant miners who might take a small ship out to solo mine simply can't withstand the rats, unless things have changed radically since I was in null belts.

Just an idea.

Might even help low-sec.

I love your posts like this, they set me up for my replies.

Real miners aren't mining just so they can take the ISK, and then do something else with it.

A lot of those who participate in mining, are not real miners.
Mining was just the most convenient obstacle for them to overcome, for their REAL desired play style.
They want, for this reason, to keep mining as simple and 'painless' as possible, so they can get it over with and play their REAL game.

REAL miners want to mine, and play against and with other miners.
Funny enough, getting to mess with enemy miners often involves dealing with things complained about by those viewing mining as an obstacle.

The twisted result?
Real miners LIKE the obstacles to mining, and just want them to be interesting, not removed from the game.

You have NO CLUE what keeps miners out of null.

It have nothing to do with belt rats, that can easily be tanked by an exhumer and killed by the drones from 3-4.

What keeps miners in high sec are the cloaky campers that shut down entire solar systems. AND there is nothing you can do about the cloaky camper. They are 100% invincible.

Null will NEVER be as profitable to mine as high sec, because you spend so much of your time camped into station.

I don't mine in Null\Low because:
1. too far away from major trade hubs, logistics sucks.
2. once you out of highsec you will be shot on sight. At least in highsec I can abuse concord to shoot back.

Go to another system? Have a cloaky fleet with your mining fleet? Have a cyno in your mining fleet and nearby a fleet ready to bridge in?

Lol

Go to another system... not allowed. And if you did rent more than one system and grind up the industry level of them all, then they would all have a claoky camper.

Right... because PvPers are going to sit around all day, watching other people mine. Then, I lose 200 million ISk mining ships and they lose 20 million ISK stealth bombers.

All these solutions are NON-solutions.

Even if they were solutions, they don't effect the fact that high sec mining will remain more profitable than null because of the cost of the solution.

A FAR better solution involves the cloaky camper actually having to be at their keyboard to be able to shut down an entire system.

I'm not against claoky camping as an effective war strategy. I only ask that the player actually have to be at their computer to do it.

My problem is with the idea of 'forcing' anyone to do anything. I repeatedly see people saying how Eve is a sandbox, forcing players into any playstyle goes entirely against this principle. There should be enticements to have players move to other areas in space. If players aren't moving then it is the enticements that are wrong, not the existing areas that players prefer to stay in.

My problem is with the idea of 'forcing' anyone to do anything. I repeatedly see people saying how Eve is a sandbox, forcing players into any playstyle goes entirely against this principle. There should be enticements to have players move to other areas in space. If players aren't moving then it is the enticements that are wrong, not the existing areas that players prefer to stay in.

They are all solutions and very much in line with the so called "risk vs. reward" mantra for 00 sec.

I don't care about PVPers sitting there and die of boredom, they want ships and you mine the minerals for these ships. The least they should be forced to do is to protect those who provide them with toys. That is my unwaverable stance. Otherwise the PVPers should stop bitching about no indus or no industry in 00 sec at all.

You don't need to rent other systems, but you can coordinate with other minings/industrialists in your vicinity to mine in their systems or they in yours when they are camped. You also need to use best tanked Skiffs, but that is probably something you already do.

About the AFK part of the AFK campers; someone once said in the forums that a truly AFK person cannot harm you. I agree with that. You of course never know if a neutral in local is really AFK or actually watching you, but that's something 00 needs to deal with. Not renting out space and instead use and protect it with your own people would be an idea. But hey, I am unrealistic again.

You are, however, right that mining in High sec is far less troublesome. At least still. CODE and other scum is trying their best to make High sec more like 00 in that regard. So soon enough you'll have the same problems everywhere ...

Get rid of rats in belts and grav sites.

Do miners want them there? I seriously doubt it.

Give belt ratters some ratting equivalent to the belts they'd lose.

The reason I think this would get more miners into null is because without rats, they can mine in as small a ship as they like (with the normal trade-off of mining capacity).

Hesitant miners who might take a small ship out to solo mine simply can't withstand the rats, unless things have changed radically since I was in null belts.

Just an idea.

Might even help low-sec.

Scottsman Logical fallacy, thinking you can redefine a word simply by putting "real" in front of it.

Real Scottsman do not eat porrage. If you eat porrage, then you are not a real "Scottsman" even if you live are Scottish.

Your response is like a straw man to logic.

I define a real miner as someone who chooses to mine as a primary interest, rather than a necessary evil blocking their access to their real play interest.

By real, as may be determined by logic, I define a miner as someone who chooses mining as their desired game itself.

I could just as easily use the term genuine, the key point is that players who actually log in so they can mine, should not have their play interest treated as second class so others can get past it more easily.

Heck, it is likely that many who would change their primary focus to mining are waiting on the gaming aspect to become interesting, and less dumbed down.

I can choose to be a miner, without enjoying obstacles or any of the other non-sense you posted.

You are attempting to define a "real" miner with a set of attributes that simply do not apply to all miners. They are not lless "real" miners just becuase they do not fit the characteristics you attempt to attribute to "real" miners.

Seconded.

Why would you want to force anyone into somewhere they do not want to be? Really bad for business.

Get rid of rats in belts and grav sites.

Do miners want them there? I seriously doubt it.

Give belt ratters some ratting equivalent to the belts they'd lose.

The reason I think this would get more miners into null is because without rats, they can mine in as small a ship as they like (with the normal trade-off of mining capacity).

Hesitant miners who might take a small ship out to solo mine simply can't withstand the rats, unless things have changed radically since I was in null belts.

Just an idea.

Might even help low-sec.

this way you get the 0.0 logistics to actually move lots of rock/ore at once. Compress into t1 items, use inter alliance jf courier contracts (as they tend to be cheaper than black frog hopefully....and black frog only runs from npc 0.0 iirc) and voila....the mining is now very profitable for them.