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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
623
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Posted - 2014.04.29 12:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Most interesting thing is this devblog was that, apparently, teams are going to be something wildly different than people were hoping for . I think most of us were envisioning some sort of internal corp or alliance pool for working together on large complicated production chains. Instead it looks as if it's going to be some form of stat/time multiplier much like decryptors are.
As in, using a specialized station team will be more expensive, but the job will be done faster and/or with higher ME. Or you can hire some hobos and do the job super cheap while ME is lowered and time is increased.
The installation cost is interesting. I suppose we could do a whole lot of predictions and stuff, but ultimately we'll have to see how things flow once the update hits. The current picture of TQ in regards to most used industry systems is very unlikely to stay the same.
Also the only negative thing I have to mention is that POS labs and stuff are being pushed on the back burner... AGAIN. You're revamping the entire industry system but then mention in the blog that you don't actually have a solution for multiple POS labs yet and that there may very well not be one on launch day. That's unacceptable. And I don't use that term lightly when it comes to EVE development, I know you guys have a lot on your plate. But pushing the POS solution backwards is really not an option guys, I hope you realize this. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
624
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 13:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor. The "good" solution is reasonably straightforward, it just requires a chunk of work and adds a fair bit of risk.
You guys have been treating POSs this way for years now. Even with small improvements.
"Don't touch the POS code. It's too complicated and takes too long. We'll do it some other time."
It's getting old.
The point is, even if it has to be some ducttape solution on launch, at least there's a solution. That is still infinitely better than just saying "Yeah, you know those 8 POS labs on your tower? 7 of those are now useless. Bye!".
That better not happen because that would be one of the largest fails since boot.ini. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
630
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Posted - 2014.04.29 14:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ok, I just know I must have missed something in all of this, but I can't spot any specific bonus related to them, soGǪ GǪwhat's the point of even having a POS if it is not treated as its own separate entity that adds to/provides unique ownership of the industry capacity of the system? The station slot system that benefits systems with many indy stations is transformed into a system-wide bonus that depends on the number of stations. But what do POSes add? The point of having one is that you get even more slots and don't have to mingle with the unwashed masses, and those slots are yours and yours alone GÇö let everyone else fight over the public scraps. Where's that in the new system? I'm not just talking about the missing bonus for having multiple arrays of the same type. What's the point of the POS itself in such a system?
There isn't one. CCP confirmed a few pages back that, currently, they have no idea what to do with the POSs and that they are likely not implementing anything for them, pretty much rendering multiple labs completely useless and worthless.
Sounds like bullshit right? He actually said it, I kid you not. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
631
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 15:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
DEATHB1RD wrote:Qorinn Eselle wrote:However it's calculated -- manufacturing cost as a direct function of price seems like it's going to create problems with supply/demand equilibrium and the efficiency of markets. Price goes up -> manufacturing cost goes up -> price goes up -> manufacturing cost goes up ->infinite spiral Sounds like we'll be moving from billions to trillions before long. Did CCP hire a bunch of bankers for econ?
Since the job cost only represent 10% of the entire cost at most, I highly doubt this is going to happen. The base price of a product is directly tied to the resources used in its construction. The relatively small cost associated with starting a job will hardly have an impact on this. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
633
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Posted - 2014.04.29 15:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Annah Gerber wrote:Weaselior wrote:Annah Gerber wrote: The problems with the PoS'es is that you aren't just looking to add tax to it, we are already running our own "mini spacestation" which has costs tied in to it to begin with, it's already 1b+ a month to fuel a large PoS,
i was just skimming through your post thinking "boy that's a lot of crazy" when this popped out at me a large pos fuel cost is nowhere near 1b a month you clearly have no idea what you're talking about To run a large Caldari PoS is 240 mil a week to run it, buying the fuel from Jita. This is why I always dread using numbers while posting because people are just going to get hung up on that and ignore the rest of the post, so maybe it's not 1b a month, it's 960 mil a month.
Oh dear lol, you have been getting shafted so hard it's painful just to talk about it My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
633
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Posted - 2014.04.29 15:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:So, let me see if I understand.
1) The 10% for NPC stations means all manufacturing at station is dead. Nothing with any reasonable volume is going to sell with enough of a markup to be profitable at that price. How do I know this? Because I would start making manufacturing the item at a POS and scoop the profit.
Because a POS doesn't cost money to run, right? Right? RIGHT?! My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
633
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Posted - 2014.04.29 15:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Some general points:
- On "we don't know yet", this is a natural consequence of getting blogs out earlier rather than later. We can wait until we know everything, but then there's no time to make changes. Right now we're releasing blogs for things that are "mostly" done designing, in that the core stuff is solid and in implementation but a lot of the consequences are still being tidied up.
- More specifically, starbases. I'm being vague in no small part because this is something we're having continuing conversations about but we haven't really nailed down our approach yet, or figured out what will end up being possible in the time available.
We are totally open to suggestions for what to do with starbases as they relate to industry. In particular, if anyone who does starbase work can spend a few minutes outlining the *simplest* changes they think would be sufficient to keep starbases in a reasonable place for this release, we're very interested in hearing them. Yes, we know "throw it out and start over" would be great, but we're not getting that done between now and the summer release, no matter how much we'd like to. Here is a thought: Delay the entire release.
I can only support this. In fact I'm a big supporter of 'it's done when it's done' in general. CCP has been way to tied down by these mandatory releases every 6 months. I don't understand why you would want to enforce such a stupid timeframe on yourself in the first place.
There are a lot of good things coming, but the more we hear the more we see that there's also a lot of stuff that's going to be missing or left broken because 'there wasn't enough time'.
For for the love of god, just take the time to do it right then.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
633
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 16:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iorga Eeta wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:DEATHB1RD wrote:Qorinn Eselle wrote:However it's calculated -- manufacturing cost as a direct function of price seems like it's going to create problems with supply/demand equilibrium and the efficiency of markets. Price goes up -> manufacturing cost goes up -> price goes up -> manufacturing cost goes up ->infinite spiral Sounds like we'll be moving from billions to trillions before long. Did CCP hire a bunch of bankers for econ? Since the job cost only represent 10% of the entire cost at most, I highly doubt this is going to happen. The base price of a product is directly tied to the resources used in its construction. The relatively small cost associated with starting a job will hardly have an impact on this. I have to pull out some math books, but I believe an infinite series like this will reach a limit not too far about the initial 10% mark of the base price of x: x + x*.1 + x*(.1)^2+x*(.1 )^3...x*(.1)^n or better yet: infinity Gêæ X(1/10)^n = 10X/9 n=0 http://symbolab.com/solver/series-calculator
I... didn't understand any of that...
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
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