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Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 185	Posted - 2011.11.15 22:31:00 - [31] - Quote Tamiya Sarossa wrote: I was purely going off the numbers in the OP, that seem to suggest the maximum boosts are now around 15-20ish%. The skils increase this by another 25%, which is 25% tops, still less than the 30% of yore. I admit this is better than I realized, but I WILL TAKE SIDE EFFECTS for that extra 5% Say you were used to Strong Drop. Its old bonus was 37%. Currently, on the test server, for me its 30%.....I have neurobiology 4, thats a 20% bonus to its strength, I have one level left to train that would put me at 35%. Guess where that puts it? Tamiya Sarossa wrote: IF you think that an armor amount bonus really matters THAT MUCH when you're in a triple rep myrm and popping exile, then you are dumb. All it does is make your armor bounce around hilariously - you're rarely in danger of being alphaed, so total armor is irrelevant as compared to how much you can rep. Im dumb and you're claiming that with the current state of artillery you're rarely in danager of being alphad? Tamiya Sarossa wrote: The same goes for Blue pill, which aside from Drop and Mindflood are the only one's I've used. Some mindflood penalties are annoying, but you rarely get them - the rest for both Drop and Bluepill I don't give a ** about in the situations where I'm going to use them (where that extra 30% makes the difference between dying or not) See above, the penalties were stupid, if I'm trying to active shield tank the last thing I need is less buffer to work with. Calling me dumb then posting this nonsense doesn't make you look any better. Tamiya Sarossa wrote:** TLDR: I want to keep the old effectiveness, even if it means keeping side effects. Can be a higher teir of boosters, I don't care. Still spacemad over my lack of 30% repping bonuses. I mean the duration thing makes it promising to pop these in station in highsec and blitz missions for awhile, but that shouldn't be the market boosters are aimed at. I'd be willing to pay a premium to get my 30, 35% boosts back. So basically, you've not personally tried the test server version out, you just read something that somebody else posted then came and posted a lot of :words: about it, all of which are based on false assumptions or an incomplete understanding of the current game environment. Then you called me dumb. I see.
TheBlackSwan Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.15 22:32:00 - [32] - Quote Quote: Boosters have always been good. That is not the issue. The issue is more concerning ease of supply and the relative cost. I mean Strong boosters are in excess of 30 mil.... To quote Luke.... "We can almost buy our own ship for that...." Yes, but strong is not for your Taranis its for your Nyx
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 494	Posted - 2011.11.15 22:35:00 - [33] - Quote This is in no way a buff to lowsec, or for booster manufacturing. With lack of side effects, there will literally be no reason not to use Strong boosters, all the time. The problem with this - Strong BPC's are currently only available in 8 specific constellations, owned and protected by 8 alliances. Strong BPC's rarely make it to the general market, as most alliances consume the entire quantity internally. By removing side effects, market demand will increase, as will the prices, and the 8 Alliances who own the sources will enjoy their isk fountains. Without increasing the availability of booster materials, this fix will not make boosters more widely available to the general public, booster rarity at this point is due to there being a bottleneck at the raw material level. Already booster manufacturers are exhausting all available sites where blueprints are dropped. All I see happening with this is demand for standard / improved falling, and strong skyrocketing, and nullsec Alliances profiting. Boosters will become an ultra-expensive commodity, where prices for Strong varieties will rival the hull cost of the ship you want to use it in. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see how this makes boosters more public-friendly at all. Any of us who actually use boosters know that the side effects didn't need to be removed to begin with, they were quite manageable in their current state. Grath, I'll just assume that your response was a sarcastic troll attempt. EHP is basically irrelevant for active tankers, if you're boosting is keeping you alive, a 30% boost increase is absolutely worth sacrificing 30% raw armor value. The art to booster use has always been careful pairing of ship type and side effect possibility, like cheese and wine. If you don't believe me, consider using Mindflood on a Vagabond - You could be hit by all the side effects and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. Every booster has its ship worth using it on, side effects not withstanding.
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 185	Posted - 2011.11.15 22:44:00 - [34] - Quote Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: This is in no way a buff to lowsec, or for booster manufacturing. With lack of side effects, there will literally be no reason not to use Strong boosters, all the time. The problem with this - Strong BPC's are currently only available in 8 specific constellations, owned and protected by 8 alliances. Strong BPC's rarely make it to the general market, as most alliances consume the entire quantity internally. Stopped reading right here when I realized you were posting from your ass. Strong boosters are available all over low sec right now, because those 8 alliances you're talking about don't actually bother to mine or produce them at all, in fact, its most often ninja farmed by another group because the profitability is so low. I mean if you're just going to make **** up why even post?
Rellik B00n Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage 16	Posted - 2011.11.16 01:44:00 - [35] - Quote Great post, no strong booster left in Jita or Rens time will tell i guess
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 87	Posted - 2011.11.16 03:32:00 - [36] - Quote Ardamalis wrote: Also, does this change preclude the contraband trading we've heard about in the past? Hope so. Def something high sec needs, smugglers and players trying to be cops. Sounds like a nice game of high sec hot potato.
Caulk H0lster Kazakh Ministry of Wealth Redistribution 36	Posted - 2011.11.16 04:08:00 - [37] - Quote This explains why I've made like 3 billion in 2 days. evil laugh ps. <3 Grath Telkin
rodyas The Scope Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2011.11.16 04:58:00 - [38] - Quote Hm this is kind of interesting really. It sounds really popular and cool to be a part of it. Something like that would be sent to jita alot, but since its illegal be strange it making it to jita with how popular it can be. It is hard trading in low sec, and some of those sales might be traps as well. Imagine Alliances can produce their own for themselves down there. But some can make it to high sec for sure, but wondering about the quantity needed. There are some skills needed which gives a buffer but still seems high demand and hard movement. Wonder what will happen over it.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 497	Posted - 2011.11.16 05:02:00 - [39] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Strong boosters are available all over low sec right now, because those 8 alliances you're talking about don't actually bother to mine or produce them at all, in fact, its most often ninja farmed by another group because the profitability is so low. LOL. I know how often they are found in lowsec on the market, because I'm one of the ones who puts them there. I know how often BPC's appear in Jita, cause I'm one of the buyers. No real mysteries there. I'm saying compared to most items traded on the market, the volume is considerably low. Most of the time there isn't even one of each type of strong BPC on the market at any given time. Certain BPC's, like Strong Mindflood, are almost nonexistent on contracts. This indicates one of two things - either Sov owners use the resources for themselves (visit the constellations - Its easy to locate the meth lab POS's and see who owns them) or, they're being ninja farmed by the same people who make them into the final product (and do so because its profitable). Either way, there isn't a surplus of the raw components needed to manufacture boosters. And besides - lets assume you are right and Alliances don't farm their LADAR sites because they "aren't profitable" . Do you really think they 'll continue to look the other way once the market shifts? Prices will spike as demand surpasses supply. If even the lesser boosters remain affordable, they will simply become another thing you have to have to be truly competitive (like faction ammo or an off-grid ganglink alt). It will no longer become about whether you choose to use boosters, but which quality you can afford. Boosters will have been downgraded to a pay-to-win element of PvP much akin to Officer Mods. I love that CCP is looking into boosters and how they're used, but I don't understand the rush to "fix" them to just to change something. Sure, guys like me will make a killing in the short term, but the game as a whole will have lost something very EvE-like (everything should have its risks). There are a lot of cool balancing ideas and other ways to develop the feature rather than just arbitrarily gutting them of penalties.
Caulk H0lster Kazakh Ministry of Wealth Redistribution 36	Posted - 2011.11.16 05:13:00 - [40] - Quote Illegality, in and of itself, is a drawback, and the main reason more people don't use more boosters. Removing penalties is just going to make MORE people use them despite their illegality, because it's one less thing to worry about. So you see, while some of the ship effect drawbacks are going to be gone soon (apparently), the key drawback that keeps many people from using boosters remains intact - their illegality. What this change WILL do is increase the demand of boosters, probably in low sec more than Jita, where a buyer still has to smuggle the drugs out somehow. I don't buy into super-alliances-controlling-drug-market conspiracy theory, but as a booster manufacturer, I can also agree that materials, specifically the higher end BPCs are ALREADY very hard to come by, and if the demand goes up for boosters, and the BPC supplies don't change, their demand will also go way up, and prices of both boosters and BPCs will go way up. This does concern me a little, because it literally took me SIX MONTHS to get my hands on just ONE strong mindflood BPC that was only 50 runs, and I had to pay out the ass to get it.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 295	Posted - 2011.11.16 05:55:00 - [41] - Quote I can't speak in great detail on this subject, not having tried my hand in the drug manufacturing trade, but I do have a small amount of insight that might be helpful. The large alliances I have been a part of or interacted closely with have largely ignored their drug manufacturing capability. The raw materials are rarely harvested, the drug specific manufacturing lines go unused. I can only assume it was due to profitability in the past compared with other occupations. Again, remember this is gleaned from casual observation... and while I get around obviously there are some of the major players that I don't have intimate knowledge of due to my past affiliations. You are correct in that most of the small amount that was produced was consumed primarily by alliance members on "special occasions". If the price of the strong variants shoot up, that should change. Of course, demand within the alliance may go up as well. As far a drawbacks were concerned, most of the pilots I knew were the type to take that chance. However it was not because the drawbacks were of no concern. In the chaos of null sec warfare drawbacks like a lower amount of armor and shield could indeed mean the difference between surviving an engagement long enough for that superior repping to save you (for example as you gain range from some of the inbound damage)... and of course out there alpha is "always" a concern unless you are simply out trying to pay your bills doing some PVE. Mainly those pilots took their chances because of their aggressive attitude, more than willing to roll the dice for a chance at pulling off a brag worthy exploit. Either way, the loss of drawbacks will be considered a big plus by most and I do see demand rising sharply... along side price. I have no idea if manufacturing supplies will be able to keep up. I would not be surprised in the least if this has already been looked at and we see a dev blog mentioning that those supplies will be more available as well. High sec pilots are still going to have the issue of legality to deal with, so strong variants may not see that much more demand there (but I doubt it). But the low strength varieties may come into vogue. I didn't get on here until the test server entered a downtime. Does someone have accurate info they would be willing to share on any boosts to the weaker varieties? If they got tweaked as well I can see them filling the void in Empire. To kill the enemy and break their toys! It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto.
Tamiya Sarossa Hedion University Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2011.11.16 14:31:00 - [42] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Tamiya Sarossa wrote: TLDR: I want to keep the old effectiveness, even if it means keeping side effects. Can be a higher teir of boosters, I don't care. Still spacemad over my lack of 30% repping bonuses. I mean the duration thing makes it promising to pop these in station in highsec and blitz missions for awhile, but that shouldn't be the market boosters are aimed at. I'd be willing to pay a premium to get my 30, 35% boosts back. So basically, you've not personally tried the test server version out, you just read something that somebody else posted then came and posted a lot of :words: about it, all of which are based on false assumptions or an incomplete understanding of the current game environment. Then you called me dumb. I see. Or I've tried the test server version out, seen that the boosters I use - exile and blue pill - have lost 5% of their effectiveness (30% to 25%, so really 16%, but :maths:), and found that is in fact a nerf to my playstyle - solo active tanking. If you seriously think that being alphaed is a worry in a rep cyclone, myrm, or domi, then I don't know what to say. At the point where you get alphaed, you are already going to die a very messy death. Buffer is somewhat helpful in situations where incoming DPS is jussst over what you can tank, but you're rarely in that narrow slice - it's either you can tank or you can't, which is why every 5% matters. While I can see that this is a buff to fleet actions and perhaps to the Drop and other boosters, for Exile and Blue Pill, the two that I use, I would gladly have them retain their side effects and keep the 5% extra efficiency that can make the difference between life or death. In that context, this is a nerf, and I'll stick by my points.
Grukni Shimai of New Eden N E X O 20	Posted - 2011.11.16 15:09:00 - [43] - Quote I guess CCP wants a more widespread use of boosters so they can introduce the new game mechanics for smuggling they talked about at the fanfest. I've always had a possitive attitude to a boost to the underworld part of EVE (were WiS could play a role) But I would like to see CCP retaining some kind of drawback, like addiction, going cold turkey some time after taking the pills if no more boosters are taken, or a 'hangover' for some limited time after the positive effects of the booster are gone.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 503	Posted - 2011.11.16 15:17:00 - [44] - Quote Grukni wrote: I guess CCP wants a more widespread use of boosters so they can introduce the new game mechanics for smuggling they talked about at the fanfest. I've always had a possitive attitude to a boost to the underworld part of EVE (were WiS could play a role) But I would like to see CCP retaining some kind of drawback, like addiction, going cold turkey some time after taking the pills if no more boosters are taken, or a 'hangover' for some limited time after the positive effects of the booster are gone. Well, there's gotta be more than meets the eye to these changes. I really hope we see a Dev Blog soon to explain this. The booster changes dont make much sense if done in a vacuum. If they are giving smuggling new mechanics, than dumbing down boosters for the masses kinda makes sense. If not though, I don't understand what they're doing, feedback has been almost unanimously negative. Perhaps there's changes to the spawning rate of LADAR sites, or contraband enforcement being handed to players, but without either of these the booster "fixes" are just going to wreak havoc on the market prices and probably be counterproductive if the goal is to make them more widely used.
MaiLina KaTar Katar Corp 29	Posted - 2011.11.16 15:43:00 - [45] - Quote Don't like it. It'll make their use mandatory where possible, pretty much. It's like vanilla WoW with alle the raidbuff farming madness.
Aloe Cloveris The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 38	Posted - 2011.11.16 23:39:00 - [46] - Quote Out of curiosity someone on Sisi wanna look up Edge implants and see what their new bonuses are? Thanks in advance.
Renan Ruivo Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance 333	Posted - 2011.11.16 23:45:00 - [47] - Quote Traficking is ilegal. Using, however, is not. Rated ARG for Pirates. *** you.*
Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises The Silent One's 105	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:07:00 - [48] - Quote MaiLina KaTar wrote: Don't like it. It'll make their use mandatory where possible, pretty much. It's like vanilla WoW with alle the raidbuff farming madness. Catching on
Autonomous Monster Paradox Interstellar 26	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:53:00 - [49] - Quote Aloe Cloveris wrote: Out of curiosity someone on Sisi wanna look up Edge implants and see what their new bonuses are? Thanks in advance. Still reduce side effects. "\\TODO later" I guess.
Scrapyard Bob EVE University Ivy League 366	Posted - 2011.11.17 04:28:00 - [50] - Quote Grukni wrote: I guess CCP wants a more widespread use of boosters so they can introduce the new game mechanics for smuggling they talked about at the fanfest. I've always had a possitive attitude to a boost to the underworld part of EVE (were WiS could play a role) But I would like to see CCP retaining some kind of drawback, like addiction, going cold turkey some time after taking the pills if no more boosters are taken, or a 'hangover' for some limited time after the positive effects of the booster are gone. Or a reduction in the existing drawbacks so that they're a lot rarer and not as severe. (Removal of the side effects entirely is "lazy developer".)
Sri Nova Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2011.11.17 04:35:00 - [51] - Quote i just wished i could receive a bonus for being drug free :(
Zarnak Wulf Amok. Goonswarm Federation 96	Posted - 2011.11.17 04:57:00 - [52] - Quote 1) Introduce more boosters. Off the top of my head - overheating, drone speed, drone range, drone optimal, electronic warfare, etc. 2) Make certain combinations have side effect- up to death 3) Add some uncertainty to manufacturing boosters. Inefficiencies = side effects
sYnc Vir Wolfsbrigade 38	Posted - 2011.11.17 05:25:00 - [53] - Quote Karah Serrigan wrote: How is the already limited supply keep up with the suddenly huuuuuuuuuuge demand? By raising the price x10 and dancing the happy dance, I would suspect. Time to Stock pile.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 25	Posted - 2011.11.17 05:37:00 - [54] - Quote I wonder why it took 11 days for this thread to pop up? :) Still, I guess I should have bought more Now those of us having invested in it have to hope CCP won't screw up with manufacturing to boost the supply. 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
Jiji Hamin Federal Defence Union Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2011.11.17 07:39:00 - [55] - Quote Raid'En wrote: Karah Serrigan wrote: How is the already limited supply keep up with the suddenly huuuuuuuuuuge demand? well price will go up of course. i'm sure traders are already buying all stocks. guess who has been loading up their army of alts with multiple billions of booster related stuffs ever since that first thread over a week ago when the chaos data about booster buffage was first mentioned. <---- this guy. ALL MAH ISK IN BOOSTER RELATED STUFFS (mostly) IN JITAAA :( I'm scared. what if they nerf build costs to compensate?
Wild Rho Silent Core 3	Posted - 2011.11.17 07:57:00 - [56] - Quote I can imagine the FC comms on an op, "ok everyone get stoned on my mark!".
Xyrcaryn GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:09:00 - [57] - Quote Side effects are not the problem, problem is manufacturing boosters is too complicated Remove requirement for gases/boosters from other region or replace it with some PI **** and it should be good.
Red Templar Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation 86	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:29:00 - [58] - Quote Sooo as the result of these changes, boosters become more used, and null/low sec regions when they can be found and manufactured will become more lucrative? We can see more fighting over these resourses, and more people will be attracted to this part of industry, because of increased profits. And this is bad how exactly? I dont see a problem with this at all. Lowsec/nullsec should give better profit and more things to do. Contraband and illigal goods were dead part of the game. Hopefully this will raise the interest to them and increase value of low sec regions. Maybe locations of these resourses need to be tweaked and adjusted, so that it has better accesability by smaller corps/alliances that are bold enough to fight for them. But thats the only issue i see here. I hope we will see more of the products/items that will be low sec only and illigal in high-sec. Low-sec pirates really could use a boost. For Love. For Peace. For Honor. For None of the Above. For Pony!
mkint 351	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:30:00 - [59] - Quote another buff to RMT friends. That's all we needed.
Myyona Ataraxia Pharmacies 9	Posted - 2011.11.17 08:58:00 - [60] - Quote Xyrcaryn wrote: Side effects are not the problem, problem is manufacturing boosters is too complicated Remove requirement for gases/boosters from other region or replace it with some PI **** and it should be good. If I could "dislike" your post I would. CEO - Ataraxia Pharmacies Biography

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