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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.22 17:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Marte on 22/09/2003 18:21:50
Just want to address some problems regarding combat between palyers. There is an issue that engaging in combat regrdless the reason is a war, pirating, or headhunters is near imposible if the other player don't want to fight.
The current problem about combat is that it is near impossible to be engage on it.
1.Lack of places to engage in combat:
When a player is traveling from gate to gate or to a station there is no time to apply any strategy. They warp in to the gate and stations so close, from less than 10Km to 20Km, that most of times that they are jumping or docking in less the 3 to 5 seconds. If your target takes form 8 to 12 second, you will never be able to lock them to webfier or warp jam them to avoid at least that they run away.
So there is really no need for modules like warp stabilization, MWD or others cause no-one really needs them.
2. The other side of the gate... I don't understand why people complain about the drones deployed on the other side of the gate since you will need around 8 ships with 8 drones or more to start making some lag... and if you are using your auto pilot you will be warping out before they can lock you on the other side.
3. The penalty time to start targeting a ship when you just jump in a location (please add to this time the time you need before a lock is establish) is so long that there is no way you can do before they go away. No risk involves and no need of the modules to avoid combat
Observations:
I agree that if a player do not wants to fight they should be able to avid confrontation, but this shouldn't be a fixed option as it is with the current game system. If they want to avoid confrontation they should always carry modules in their ship like a warp stabilizer, a micro warp drive or some sort of electronic warfare devise.
1st. I know that traveling big distance and warping away 30 Km form the gate and stations is a pain in the neck, but that is the way it should always be if you really want this game to be about strategy and interaction. So I think this should be a most all the timeą minimum 30km away form each gate or station and this should be form any direction you are coming from.
2nd. When jumping to a gate and you are in autopilot your ship should wait 10 second minimum to start your next warp to the next location and any ship in there should be able to lock you before you do so. This will make things more balanceą so there is risk involve but you also can avoid it if you use the proper modulesą
When you post your comments, take into account that this post is to try to balance this, and not to give advantage to pirates, they canĘt do this in a station or gate with sentry guns in secure space at this moment, but is to make things more balance when your corp is in a war and when your travel in no secure spaceą For those who donĘt like confrontation please try to think about balancing the game and not to make your life easy as pie.
Comments?
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.22 17:37:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Marte on 22/09/2003 17:39:42
I think that if pirates want to be heard, giving names like carebears is not going to help us fix this unbalance interaction. I am not a pirate but my corp is at war with another corp and combat should be fair. We have been spending so much time with so many different strategies trying to have some interaction in player vs player combat with frustrating results that even in secure space with no need to worry about sentry guns, stations firing back or police coming (because when you are at war you can attack with no problem) that is impossible to do so if the other player just want to go away... And this is a clear valid point that shows that this is unbalance...
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.22 18:09:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Marte, why does your solution include a nerf to travel?
99% of the time there is nobody to avoid. So we should nerf travel everywhere just so that you get a couple extra seconds of lock time?
How about a module that shuts down a gate or increases the warp-in range. Something YOU have to fit to your ship.
This game is practically unplayable as it is because gate campers want it easy.
As I see it the Bookmark/folder/sort-by bug is intentional so that people start getting used to not using them. Probably why they haven't fixed it yet.
I do agree that we need more areas to engage people. A system wide nerf to travel is NOT the solution.
CCP needs to really sit down and have a round table so they can come up with solutions that provide something more than camp X area with X players for teh win.
I don't want to make traveling more painfull... but as much as I love when I warp 10KM away form the gate... I need to recognize that this should also be consider an exploit don't you think? And yes CCP needs to see how to address this... cause is giving people from both side a bad gaming experience...
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.22 18:19:00 -
[4]
Quote:
I think you should just warp 50km from any ship, oh wait, that still won't work, since UBER tachions can get up to 150km with various modules....
I think that warping always at 50km away is to painfull for large trips... and Tychions been able to do that is another problem that looks to be approached in a different way from this issue...
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.22 20:35:00 -
[5]
Dukath:
Thankyou.. I couldn't explain it better... And your solution are the best ones at the time...
Now how can we take this problem to the DRVs and hear their comment and how if this can be possible...?
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.23 14:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Marte on 23/09/2003 14:37:39
Quote:
Man some people have so little skill as to expect their target to be laid at their feet. Have you ever even considered that some people may actually enjoy the other aspects of the game as well and thus dont want to be a pawn for your amusement. Try working a little harder on catching your victim. No one in their right mind is gonna sit still while you destroy their possesions, not in eve or any other game.
I am not saying that is impossible to catch somebody, and yes there is ways to hunt them downą but that only happens if you are a power player with more than 3M in skillsą your victim is under 2M in skillsą then you probably are hunting 1 guy with 4 peopleą And then let me know for every attempt to hunt someoneą (count every person that pass by you) what is your success rateą 1 every 10? Combat shouldn't only be for those powerplayers.. a noob should be able to engage combat with other noob if he wants and not have to wait 2 month to get decent skills and then go after new noobą If you say that is easyą please let us know what is your secretą tell me what is that you are doing that the rest is notą and donĘt give us theö find it for yourselföą cause I have been spending way to much time trying it with poor resulsą
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.23 14:34:00 -
[7]
There is a mix of two versions about this problem...
People complain about gate camping.... and those who said is impossible to engage in combat...
To help us out to go in middle ground:
Please tell us the following...
1.How many pirates have to be in a gate in order to be impossible of go jump with out been killed... (add if these are regular pirates or power players)
2. From all the times that there is pirates camping and count also the non power players.... how many times you successfully out run them? (I bet you can do that more times than actually been killed)
3. How many times have you been in 0.0 space with out a problem of gate camping... (again I bet the ratio is a lot higher with no incidents...)
If you use a common route... you should expect big pirates and it will be ok to stop doing it and find a new route that is not that popular...
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.23 14:47:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Read Elfmans post, that is where a big chunk of the problem lies.
If you did not come looking for a fight, you will always lose. Not only setup-wise, also number-wise since there will not be one guy camping your jump-in point, there will be 3-8 of them...
Then you read post from campers that want more effective webbers/jammer, no sentries, no invulnerability timer etc. That is so much the wrong approach! We dont want to make it easier to execute peaceful travellers. That's not the solution to a more rewarding gaming experience.
CCP needs to promote more even fights, or making fight less fatal. You read that right. Consider what would happen if webbers and jammer were completely remove from tranq. People may actually take on more dangerous routes, stay and fight "for a while" to feel the opponent out etc. If you do not have to fear entrapment and execution you may not run on sight (which is pretty much what happens everywhere now unless you are really sure to have the upper hand). I think that would mean more fun for everyone and I think the PvP-poddings vs. PK-poddings ratio would increase! The absolute nr of poddings would perhaps go down initially, but in the long run the players adjust to the risks and the same number on non-cautious or over-confident players will be the ones that die... 
You are talking like is there is only 4 systems in eve , and there is always 6 pirates camping there... f there is a group of power players camping in a area... move to other place... there is what? 2000 different systems? When I hear people complaining about these super pirates killing people... you go and look where they areą that is easy... and go to do your business to another place until they move...
This post is not about those specific places with specific super pirates that use exploits or are in numbers of 8... (you clearly identify them... there is 4 to 5 places "green dots" like and that is it) And that is why this thing that you complaint are happening because there is no way you can promote a more balance combat with 2 - 1 or 1 - 1, because that is impossible... so if you donĘt fix a better balance way to engage combat ... you can only expect more exploits of this class...
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.23 14:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Marte on 23/09/2003 14:54:10
Edited by: Marte on 23/09/2003 14:53:40
Quote:
If you do not have to fear entrapment and execution you may not run on sight (which is pretty much what happens everywhere now unless you are really sure to have the upper hand).
I am sorry but that is Bull S... That do not happens everywhere...That is only in 4 or 5 places, and don't give me that crap you can't avoid them... I have done it and the vast mayority do it to... If they are there is cause there is a good trade route there.. so stop that route and find a new one... There are to many places to go...
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.23 15:08:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Marte on 23/09/2003 15:10:30
Quote:
No I am not. But there's a reason why these hotspots are camped, because people need to go through there (ofcourse).
Quote:
That is my point you don't need to go there... you go couse there is a bg reward of money for you... so you take your risk... You can change your route, YOU DONT NEED TO GO THERE... so this don't happen everywhere and these are especifics cases not the general.. Combat is imposible and you will alway be able to get away is not balance... unless you go to those 4 to 5 places in which in a unusuall way there are 8 pirates with exploits waiting for you... And they do that casue is the only way to engage in combat... So combat needs to be easier in order to avoid this kind of actions...
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.23 15:42:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Your point being?
I was making a suggestion how to promote more PvP in favour of outright PK, which is just generally bad for the community as a whole.
PvP: Player versus Player fighting, gives interesting gameplay. Player fights on "equal terms". You may define equal terms a million times, but I hope you get my drift.
PK: Player Killing, does inevitably hurt the playerbase.
Exception: Corporate Wars. New good rules of engagement should be made for corporate wars. Here the main goal is to hurt the opponent, not to promote yourself to the same extent as normal gameplay should do (for the players sake!).
I don't want to attack you , but my corp has been at war for the last 3 week and how many confrontations? 2 one with a shuttle that happen to not have able to use MWD and with 2 shots you can destry them ... then we speend so much time just trying to have a decent combat... but nothing cause the other party just decided that they want to fill a slot in our war corporation...
So combat is not balance
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Marte
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Posted - 2003.09.23 15:51:00 -
[12]
I like your approach thanks for the comment
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