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SevenDwarfs	Posted - 2006.05.24 02:52:00 - [1] EVE has giving us another update. And with this update another missile nerf. With every update EVE gives more and more power to Projectile and Hybrids and even the Energy weapons, yet they always find a way to lower the Hit Points to some kind of missile. From slowing them down to lowering the HP, EVE will find a way to reject the use of any and all missiles. What give? Will EVE ever send missiles a good patch to help revive them and not destroy them. Yes Missiles are not the weapons of choice when fighting another character. But back when EVE first started they were very nice both in PVP and in missions. Now people relay on them for missions. Now EVE wants to slow that down, as they introduce Levle 5 Agents. Will EVE ever see how they are hurting people and hurting the chance of a good fight, or will they keep nerfing the Missiles. Lets all help the Missile Nerf and speak out against it.. ~SevenDwarfs~ ~TOOC~
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:02:00 - [2] Yeah, missiles are so underpowered, it is really an outrage. Oh well, switch to one of the hideously overpowered turret weapon systems, it is your only hope.
DragonSnake	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:20:00 - [3] Edited by: DragonSnake on 24/05/2006 03:25:00 well i guess you can compare it to realy life.. bulits and lighting bolts and field altilery all do more than any missiles out there.. and note the sarcasme
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:24:00 - [4] Originally by: DragonSnake well i guess you can compare it to realy life.. bulits and lighting bolts and field altilery all do more than any missiles out there Ever been within a city block or two of an ICBM when it landed? Of course not, you'd be dead! -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:31:00 - [5] Originally by: DragonSnake Edited by: DragonSnake on 24/05/2006 03:25:00 well i guess you can compare it to realy life.. bulits and lighting bolts and field altilery all do more than any missiles out there.. and note the sarcasme Real life is not game. Game is not real life. Eve is a game. Get it?
Hey You	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Originally by: DragonSnake Edited by: DragonSnake on 24/05/2006 03:25:00 well i guess you can compare it to realy life.. bulits and lighting bolts and field altilery all do more than any missiles out there.. and note the sarcasme Real life is not game. Game is not real life. Eve is a game. Get it? Eve isn't real life? ------------------------------
Hey You	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:34:00 - [7] First off, if you don't use precision cruise, how does this effect you? Also, if you don't think that the Precision cruises were hugely imbalanced, then you're blind. ------------------------------
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Hey You Eve isn't real life? Actually I think my comment might have been out of order, because he said "note the sarcasm"... though I'm not sure that makes it make any sense at all then...
Aeaea	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:37:00 - [9] Because pwning a frigate with battleship sized launchers isn't overpowered at all..
Phaese	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:37:00 - [10] Stop whining about the missile nerfs, it'll be fixed soon enough. Kali is doing away with weapons as we know them; it's going to have rocket-propelled, laser-guided, plutonium-based nuclear warheads. That are launched from drones. /me trains Projectisslaser Hybridrone to level V.
FFGR	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:40:00 - [11] Presicion needed a nerf and they got it. Blasters were too high on CPU and Cap consuming. Proj ... well, they had all the named guns of small and medium size requiring no cap, while the t1 and t2 needed cap to fire. _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
DragonSnake	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:42:00 - [12] ok but if a rail or a blaster/beam can cuz over a thousand hp but yet a precetion can only stike for 5-6 hundred why the nerf??
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:44:00 - [13] Originally by: Phaese Stop whining about the missile nerfs, it'll be fixed soon enough. Uhm... Yes. It just got fixed. In this patch. Quote: Kali is doing away with weapons as we know them; I DO hope that is a joke.
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:46:00 - [14] Originally by: DragonSnake ok but if a rail or a blaster/beam can cuz over a thousand hp but yet a precetion can only stike for 5-6 hundred why the nerf?? Consider the setups required to actually hit a frigate, and the situations required for it to do so. A gun can do so: - if the frigate's transversal is low enough - if gun is far enough away and the setup has enough tracking boosts, etc. (requiring setups ENTIRELY devoted to such actions, which eliminates a tank and any hope of offense at any short range) - and it still has a very good chance of missing... A precision missile previous to this patch could do so: - if the frigate/inty was in range
DragonSnake	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:46:00 - [15] no they never fixed them they hurt them.. fixing them be leaving them alon or giving them the hp back..
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:50:00 - [16] Originally by: DragonSnake no they never fixed them they hurt them.. fixing them be leaving them alon or giving them the hp back.. Uh, they were pretty heavily overpowered. Therefore, nerfing them fixed them (or brought them closer to being 'in balance', if not all of the way there, hopefully they did not over-nerf them). I don't get what you are trying to say, honestly.
Hey You	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:51:00 - [17] Originally by: DragonSnake ok but if a rail or a blaster/beam can cuz over a thousand hp but yet a precetion can only stike for 5-6 hundred why the nerf?? I hate to be the E-Spelling Police, but.... Seriously though, I HIGHLY doubt you will EVER get a 1k shot to an inty. ESPECIALLY from an Blaster. To get a hit PERIOD, they need to be, like, 100km+ away, and the Inty needs to be dumb enough to not warp as it takes like, atleast 2-3 volleys for it to die normally. Precisions could hit, at ANY range. At 5km, or 150km. So overpowered. I'd be willing to bet that they did more damage then the sniper BSes you will see do. ------------------------------
SevenDwarfs	Posted - 2006.05.24 03:58:00 - [18] Ok let me clear something up a) the percetion missiles i use droped from hitting at 530 hp to 447. b) the statements made some are true some are not.. but in all reality people are not fitting frigs all the time.. c) you can snipe with almost all the other weapons try to do it with a cruise missile.. you get the time to warp out warp back in and fire off another set of rounds.. so yes unless ur fitting frigs all the time then yes i guess the nerf helped u.. but when ur fitting everything then the nerf hurt like hell..
Hey You	Posted - 2006.05.24 04:00:00 - [19] Edited by: Hey You on 24/05/2006 04:00:43 Originally by: SevenDwarfs Ok let me clear something up a) the percetion missiles i use droped from hitting at 530 hp to 447. b) the statements made some are true some are not.. but in all reality people are not fitting frigs all the time.. c) you can snipe with almost all the other weapons try to do it with a cruise missile.. you get the time to warp out warp back in and fire off another set of rounds.. so yes unless ur fitting frigs all the time then yes i guess the nerf helped u.. but when ur fitting everything then the nerf hurt like hell.. You want instant-damage missiles? Oh, use the other Cruise Missiles for damage...Or maybe...Maybe torps. ------------------------------
SevenDwarfs	Posted - 2006.05.24 04:02:00 - [20] im not asking instant damage. i saying if they keep nerf the missile line and keep adding to turret weapons. lil unfair
K1K1R1K1	Posted - 2006.05.24 04:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Real life is not game. Game is not real life. Eve is a game. Get it? QFTW now and forever! ____________________________________________ Don't worry aboutit
Hey You	Posted - 2006.05.24 04:08:00 - [22] Originally by: SevenDwarfs im not asking instant damage. i saying if they keep nerf the missile line and keep adding to turret weapons. lil unfair Maybe...Maybe because the missiles were ownage, and Turrets awful? I know a pilot, who has what was it, 600k SP in missiles, and 12m in Gunnery, and he flies a Raven better then gunboats. Unfair, mebbe? You can't complain about Missiles sucking at sniping, because that's a part of a missile user. Try Javelin Torps for sniping. Good damage, and they cover range fast. ------------------------------
Frezik	Posted - 2006.05.24 04:09:00 - [23] Originally by: SevenDwarfs im not asking instant damage. i saying if they keep nerf the missile line and keep adding to turret weapons. lil unfair They added missiles in RMR that were massively overpowered. And hey, your cargo hold still has space for normal missiles if you need to do damage. How dope is that? ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth
Hydrian Alante	Posted - 2006.05.24 04:11:00 - [24] Edited by: Hydrian Alante on 24/05/2006 04:12:36 Originally by: SevenDwarfs EVE has giving us another update. And with this update another missile nerf. With every update EVE gives more and more power to Projectile and Hybrids and even the Energy weapons, yet they always find a way to lower the Hit Points to some kind of missile. From slowing them down to lowering the HP, EVE will find a way to reject the use of any and all missiles. What give? Will EVE ever send missiles a good patch to help revive them and not destroy them. Yes Missiles are not the weapons of choice when fighting another character. But back when EVE first started they were very nice both in PVP and in missions. Now people relay on them for missions. Now EVE wants to slow that down, as they introduce Levle 5 Agents. Will EVE ever see how they are hurting people and hurting the chance of a good fight, or will they keep nerfing the Missiles. Lets all help the Missile Nerf and speak out against it.. ~SevenDwarfs~ ~TOOC~ Yeah train for Turrets! Trust me they are uber in every way!!!!111oneeleven
Sever Aldaria	Posted - 2006.05.24 04:24:00 - [25] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Originally by: DragonSnake well i guess you can compare it to realy life.. bulits and lighting bolts and field altilery all do more than any missiles out there Ever been within a city block or two of an ICBM when it landed? Of course not, you'd be dead! Yes! Don't boost missiles, just add ballistic missiles!
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2006.05.24 05:50:00 - [26] Missiles have had good patches for sure, at launch it cost something like 150,000 isk to manufacture 10 light missiles and about 300,000 isk per torpedo (not sure the torps weren't some 5m3 ? each as well). While I'm sure they keep PvE at the back of there mind, weapons in eve have to be primarily balanced for PvP otherwise the core of the game falls apart. Precision cruise missiles were horrendously overpowered in PvP, offering the ability to practically insta-pop frigates while still being just as good versus other battleships. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Tarphon	Posted - 2006.05.24 06:02:00 - [27] Did they nerf Torps too.... I mean I was doing some ratting on Guristas using tech 2 "anti-ship" kinetic torps. They were doing only like 207 damage. I got a mate to let me test on him with NO hardners or amps and it only did 220. WTF I did more damage with the standard Torps and even heavy missiles before this "patch" Why dont they just remove the fracking Caldari from the game, this is getting real stupid.
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.24 06:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Tarphon Why dont they just remove the fracking Caldari from the game, this is getting real stupid. I agree. Because Caldari ships suck. They are completely useless. They can't kill anything in PVE, they can't kill anything in PVP. The Raven gets owned by a freaking Omen... What's the point? throws up hands
Vardemis	Posted - 2006.05.24 06:42:00 - [29] I think Tux is just warming up for the real hit with the nerfbat regarding missiles. It is going into the right directions, but it is still far from balance.
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.05.24 08:16:00 - [30] Always sad and hilarious at the same time when people complain when their precious "I-WIN" buttons, also known as missiles, are nerfed to be a bit more balanced compared to other weapons, as if that'd reduce them to throwing sticks or something. Sheesh.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.05.24 08:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Tarphon Did they nerf Torps too.... I mean I was doing some ratting on Guristas using tech 2 "anti-ship" kinetic torps. They were doing only like 207 damage. I got a mate to let me test on him with NO hardners or amps and it only did 220. WTF Might have something to do with a stat called "explosion radius" on your rage torp, and them being designed to hit capital ships, but it's okay, I know some of you Caldaris have a hard time thinking about anything else than the "damage" stat on your weapons.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:02:00 - [32] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 24/05/2006 11:05:02 What is it with Caldari and whining? I mean, they got pretty much everything even after some nerfs, yet still cry... I don't get it. Missile advantages over turrets: - Always hit - Hit regardless of range - Hit for full damage regardless of range - large missiles take less than half as much time to train to T2 as large guns - can chose damage type without affecting their DPS - don't require modules to improve weapon performance - unaffected by tracking disruptors - only slightly affected by Jammers with FOFs - most missile ships can shieldtank, leaving the lows for damage mods and tank support - use no cap - specialty ammo to deal with smaller and larger targets Turret advantages over missiles: - Instant damage - target sig radius only slightly affects accuracy - higher DPS with high end skills Oh yes, missiles are so underpowered, please boost them! And as for the lack of instant damage, if your torp salvo made the target warp away, that is a victory too... You don't HAVE to kill to win you know (xcept for epeen extension) And what really gets me is that I actually saw some Caldaris whine about their tier3 becoming a rail boat (and thus a good fleet ship), while I bet the very same people would whine about Caldari being crap in fleet combat... They really want instafulldamagetoeverysizenadspeedtargetatanyrange-missiles, do they? :/ ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Grl Artigas	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:09:00 - [33] Any Other Race With Useless T2 Ammo (Rage Toprs) And With Out Faction Ammo? Fly A Raven Before You Say Its Overpowered. And People Dont Need To Start A Nerf The Reaven Post Everytime They Get Owned By A Raven. Its Not The Raven Thats Overpowered Its The Raven Pilot Being Better Than You
Chain Gang	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:12:00 - [34] Edited by: Chain Gang on 24/05/2006 11:12:47 Quote: - Always hit - Hit regardless of range - Hit for full damage regardless of range - large missiles take less than half as much time to train to T2 as large guns - can chose damage type without affecting their DPS - don't require modules to improve weapon performance - unaffected by tracking disruptors - only slightly affected by Jammers with FOFs - most missile ships can shieldtank, leaving the lows for damage mods and tank support - use no cap - specialty ammo to deal with smaller and larger targets Turret advantages over missiles: - Instant damage - target sig radius only slightly affects accuracy - higher DPS with high end skills You also need to add Defenders being fixed .... therefore there will be a defense (whether large or small) against missiles currently there is no "anti laser, anti projectile mod" expect jamming which also effects the high damage missiles. I would also argue that hitting crows / interceptors for 0 damage classes as misses ..... even precision cruises hitting a "skilled fast mover" does nothing ...
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Chain Gang You also need to add Defenders being fixed .... therefore there will be a defense (whether large or small) against missiles currently there is no "anti laser, anti projectile mod" expect jamming which also effects the high damage missiles. I would also argue that hitting crows / interceptors for 0 damage classes as misses ..... even precision cruises hitting a "skilled fast mover" does nothing ... Tracking disruptors. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Chain Gang	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:21:00 - [36] So let the missiles users have Tracking Disruptor Missiles then .. bring them on par with the Guns users spamming defenders in the future
Yurii Chan	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:22:00 - [37] once upon a time, projectiles had no tracking to worry about. just dmg and boy was it beautiful. nerf came, we moved along. once upon a time, missiles hit everything for OMGWTFBBQPWNAGE dmg and the bat swung. why is it so hard for you to move along like all other races have? you missile lovers keep talking about how projectile ships instapop frigs from long range... well, lets see you put ur money where ur mouth is and train up for turret ships and try it. fyi - it is almost impossible to do much dmg to any small ship in a large turret ship. oh and would you like some cheese with your whine? seriously, this is getting a bit annoying this caldarian "OMFG THE SKY IS FALLING" antic. drop it, and if that's so hard, can i have your stuff on your way out of the game? kthxdie.
Chain Gang	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:24:00 - [38] Quote: once upon a time, missiles hit everything for OMGWTFBBQPWNAGE dmg and the bat swung. why is it so hard for you to move along like all other races have? Complete rubbish ..... 0.0 damage for missiles against fast movers is such a "step back in time" shall we move it to a negitive value to make you happy ...
Yurii Chan	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:26:00 - [39] keyword, FAST MOVING SHIP. lets see you strap on 1400s and try to hit a fast moving ship ffs.
St'oto	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:27:00 - [40] I only have the problem with that: The explosion radius of Precision Heavy Missiles has been increased to 75m and damage reduced to 135 hp. Oh ccp please a hac must be able to kill a t1 frig or as/interceptor with ease. Now a cerberus(currently the most expensive hac) have problems killing small ships with precision heavy missles.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:30:00 - [41] Originally by: Chain Gang So let the missiles users have Tracking Disruptor Missiles then .. bring them on par with the Guns users spamming defenders in the future One tracking disruptor will have a massive effect on a turret ship (half the range with half the tracking, is aproximatley 4x the trouble hitting - often enough to make a turret user deal 0 damage if used well, multiples will shred him) defender missiles, even back when they worked rarely halved the DPS of an attacking missile ship, even when the ship attempting to defend with them was using 4-6 launchers fitted solely with defenders. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Jasai Kameron	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Grl Artigas Any Other Race With Useless T2 Ammo (Rage Toprs) And With Out Faction Ammo? Fly A Raven Before You Say Its Overpowered. And People Dont Need To Start A Nerf The Reaven Post Everytime They Get Owned By A Raven. Its Not The Raven Thats Overpowered Its The Raven Pilot Being Better Than You I think there are plenty of races who have been moaning about their T2 ammo. Tux said that most of them were either overpowered or useless. Case of extremes. Also, from what I understand, Rage Torps aren't useless. They are just designed for hitting ships with a high sig radius - dreads etc. I could be wrong about that. I've flown a raven and I know it's overpowered. Do you have any evidence that everytime a Raven owns another ship it's because the pilot is better? Most/much of the time the Raven pilot will have less skillpoints than a dedicated gunship pilot, who has to train twice as hard to be equally as good. So what do you mean by "Better Than You". Perhaps you mean that the non-Raven pilot is an idiot for being so ridiculously dumb as to be trying to fight in a ship that ISN'T a Raven. At the guy who started this thread: Don't whine because you hear that a patch is nerfing your ammo. You are welcome to whine on the day a Blasterthron completely owns a skilled Raven torp-spewer close-range, or when a skilled Raven becomes a pathetic ship at mid-range combat. At the moment, all you are whining about is that the game is becoming slightly more fair and slightly more challenging for a missile user. Where's the harm in that?
Laboratus	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:45:00 - [43] Actually, Missiles could use a good damage boost and reduced ROF. This combined with improving defenders, increasing speed and damage, so that they actually can drop a torpedo if it hits, would bring something more to the game, as ppl would actually fit for defenders and we would again have a strong weapon system with a strong counter. At the moment the defenders are kinda weak, as it takes 3 hits to destroy a torp, meaning only Typhoon would actually consider fitting them, as it has spare launcher slots, and propably not eaven then.
Emsigma	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Jasai Kameron You are welcome to whine on the day a Blasterthron completely owns a skilled Raven torp-spewer close-range, or when a skilled Raven becomes a pathetic ship at mid-range combat. Throw me a convo when you want your raven to be slapped silly by a blasterthron. New blaster fixes 4tw!
Baron Rodrigo	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:50:00 - [45] EVERYONE needs to stop complaining about missiles. They are uber, they always have been. They have constant extremely high damage and they can use F.O.F when jammed. The other thing is the raven also has the best short term tank out of all the battleships so people really need to stop complaining. Boost artillery tracking and ROF!!!!
Gorgons	Posted - 2006.05.24 11:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Yurii Chan Edited by: Yurii Chan on 24/05/2006 11:26:51 keyword, FAST MOVING SHIP. lets see you strap on 1400s and try to hit a fast moving ship ffs. -edit- last i checked, caldari ships have a drone bay big enough for light drones which are really good against fast movers. so that point is moot yeah, the eagle and the cerb can squeeze a gazillion drones in it's 0 m3 drone bay. And yes you will insta pop an inty approaching you with the mwd going, you won't do any damage with a missile. ohh and why don't you grow a pair and post with your main. ---------------------------------- OMG! what does it say...
Gorgons	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Baron Rodrigo EVERYONE needs to stop complaining about missiles. They are uber, they always have been. They have constant extremely high damage and they can use F.O.F when jammed. The other thing is the raven also has the best short term tank out of all the battleships so people really need to stop complaining. Boost artillery tracking and ROF!!!! ehhhh right... what they need to do, is to nerf the turret resolution on large turrets, so they won't wreck small fast ships with mwd. Then turret users will have it like missile users. And those fof you think are so uber, will ALWAYS target your opponents drones, they suck. ---------------------------------- OMG! what does it say...
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:06:00 - [48] Geez, Tux nerfed one T2 missile. Don't get your panties in a bundle. It does not mean that this is a prelude to an entire new chapter on missile nerfing, nor turret boosting. I understand how some might feel because of all the boosting being done to turrets, like projectile cap elimination, blaster unnerf, and the tach update, but it means jack. In fact, it should make turret users whine less about missile balance, but it just hasn't because no one ever sees past the fact that the two weapons work on entirely different systems. When we get balanced, working anti missile defense (not just defenders, maybe mid-slot missile ECM?), and a little missile tweaking to compensate, I personally think things will be perfect. I use both missiles and hybrids (yes, the Caldari use both...!) and the only thing I see is two weapon systems that work very well, but very differently. I think the problem is no one has patience for confirmed and/or pending changes. Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com
Ryysa	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:09:00 - [49] Before saying anything: I fly precision cruise ravens on a regular basis. Okay, and i think the missile was overpowered. Just before downtime before the patch i onevolleyed a crow... I actually didn't even need all 6 missiles, only 5. If that's not overpowered then i don't know what is. While i can't say i like the nerf when flying my raven, i can say that i love and adore the nerf when i am flying my ceptor. Stop whining =/ All about target jamming
Jasai Kameron	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:16:00 - [50] Originally by: Emsigma Originally by: Jasai Kameron You are welcome to whine on the day a Blasterthron completely owns a skilled Raven torp-spewer close-range, or when a skilled Raven becomes a pathetic ship at mid-range combat. Throw me a convo when you want your raven to be slapped silly by a blasterthron. New blaster fixes 4tw! Sadly, I don't have a Raven and I'm not skilled in it (torps to level 4 but none of the newer missile skills or that new shield comp skill). I switched to training gallente gunships a fair while ago. Plus you are a 2003 character, mate. You should be owning Ravens in a Blasterthron. If you weren't, then there'd be something wrong. Which is the point I was making really. Combat should depend on your skills and how you use your ship, not just on what race ships you are able to fly.
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:28:00 - [51] Originally by: Leandro Salazar - Hit regardless of range Missiles do have range. If you are out of missile range, its not gonna hit you. Originally by: Leandro Salazar - Hit for full damage regardless of range Missile dmg is affected by sig radius. Originally by: Leandro Salazar - large missiles take less than half as much time to train to T2 as large guns But Small guns take less than half as much time to train to T2 as small missiles Originally by: Leandro Salazar - can chose damage type without affecting their DPS - don't require modules to improve weapon performance You got to be kidding me. Ever heard of Ballistic controls and target painters? Originally by: Leandro Salazar - unaffected by tracking disruptors - only slightly affected by Jammers with FOFs Missiles != Guns. And FoFs are useless so people dont carry those things. Originally by: Leandro Salazar - most missile ships can shieldtank, leaving the lows for damage mods and tank support - use no cap But most of the missile ships dont have much low slots. And they need mids to fit shield tank and other modules like target painters, webbers and scramblers. Originally by: Leandro Salazar - specialty ammo to deal with smaller and larger targets Those got nerfed now. Turret advantages over missiles: -Instant damage -Not much affected by target sig radius(only affects accuracy) and if the target is not moving turrets do full dmg unlike missiles. -High DPS with good skills -Amazing wrecking shots -Ability to choose range and dmg. -Mid slots are not needed for tank so you can fit webbers, tracking computers, target painters and many other things. -Lots of low slots for tank and dmg mods and stabs(lol). -Turret ships can snipe -Lots of dmg and accuracy boosting modules. I am training for turrets now. I have tried turrets in test server and i am pretty happy about it. Thank god finally we are getting a turret battleship. :)
Wotar	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:28:00 - [52] rofl
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:33:00 - [53] This is the second post Ive seen in the last ten minutes that reads to me as: "Hello, I have no clue about game mechanics" Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 24/05/06 and ridiculously off topic!
Wotar	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:36:00 - [54] Originally by: Grl Artigas Any Other Race With Useless T2 Ammo (Rage Toprs) And With Out Faction Ammo? Fly A Raven Before You Say Its Overpowered. And People Dont Need To Start A Nerf The Reaven Post Everytime They Get Owned By A Raven. Its Not The Raven Thats Overpowered Its The Raven Pilot Being Better Than You Yes of course, Ravens are the only ships with useless T2 ammo, sure Er, and what's with the capitalisation? o.0
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:37:00 - [55] to the op: my main is focused on missiles, and as mucha s i dont like it, the nerf, or fix, is needed. it wont make the precision missiles useless tho, so dont worry ;). i also wonna add, that i have an account specialized in amarr, and turrets are overall better in most situations, i prefer the zealot over the cerb everyday - BUT missiles arent unbalanced, its jsut that the further away u get fomrt he target, or the faster ur target is, the less useful they become. btw im rtainin m main for gunnery, cant wait for the caldari tier3 bs. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.24 12:43:00 - [56] Originally by: Chain Gang Edited by: Chain Gang on 24/05/2006 11:16:53 Edited by: Chain Gang on 24/05/2006 11:12:47 Quote: - Always hit - Hit regardless of range - Hit for full damage regardless of range - large missiles take less than half as much time to train to T2 as large guns - can chose damage type without affecting their DPS - don't require modules to improve weapon performance - unaffected by tracking disruptors - only slightly affected by Jammers with FOFs - most missile ships can shieldtank, leaving the lows for damage mods and tank support - use no cap - specialty ammo to deal with smaller and larger targets Turret advantages over missiles: - Instant damage - target sig radius only slightly affects accuracy - higher DPS with high end skills You also need to add Long range Combat = useless Ballistic Controls = weapon mod's FoF's do almost no damage .... Most Laser / Hybrid / Project can armour tank without having the same shield penalty to Cap Rechargers Defenders being fixed .... therefore there will be a defense (whether large or small) against missiles currently there is no "anti laser, anti projectile mod" expect jamming which also effects the high damage missiles. I would also argue that hitting crows / interceptors for 0 damage classes as misses ..... even precision cruises hitting a "skilled fast mover" does nothing ... - Long range Combat = useless -> already in my list, 'hidden' as turret insta damage advantage. - Ballistic Controls = weapon mod's -> irrelevant as turrets got the exact same mods and theyre far from required, they only increase damage. - FoF's do almost no damage .... -> Yeah sure, 75% of normal cruise damage is almost nothing, barely better than 0.... - Most Laser / Hybrid / Project can armour tank without having the same shield penalty to Cap Rechargers -> And get a smaller recharge rate when using affordable modules, and using up medslots that could be used for tracking comps. I dont see how this is an advantage for guns when shieldtanking missile users can use PDUs for almost the same effect PLUS shield boni, and without using up a slot that could help their weapon performance otherwise. - Defenders being fixed .... therefore there will be a defense (whether large or small) against missiles currently there is no "anti laser, anti projectile mod" expect jamming which also effects the high damage missiles. -> Like stated by others, tracking disruptors. I would also argue that hitting crows / interceptors for 0 damage classes as misses ..... even precision cruises hitting a "skilled fast mover" does nothing ... -> Of course, but since big guns have exactly the same problem hitting fast stuff, I did not list performance against fast targets on either side as neiher has an advantage over the other there. And I DO happen to fly a Raven, and I only do so because it is overpowered. I fkn hate the damn ship and the l33t missiles, but it is so damn overpowered that my sense for efficiency overruled my disdain :/ ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.05.24 13:00:00 - [57] Originally by: Ryysa Before saying anything: I fly precision cruise ravens on a regular basis. Okay, and i think the missile was overpowered. Just before downtime before the patch i onevolleyed a crow... I actually didn't even need all 6 missiles, only 5. If that's not overpowered then i don't know what is. While i can't say i like the nerf when flying my raven, i can say that i love and adore the nerf when i am flying my ceptor. Stop whining =/ Missiles are not overpowered. Ravens are.. Try killing an inty in a bomber.
cytomatrix	Posted - 2006.05.24 13:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Leandro Salazar - FoF's do almost no damage .... -> Yeah sure, 75% of normal cruise damage is almost nothing, barely better than 0.... Yea 75% of normal cruiser dmg to some random target is useful.
Death Incarnated	Posted - 2006.05.24 13:14:00 - [59] Edited by: Death Incarnated on 24/05/2006 13:15:13 crap dubble sry
Death Incarnated	Posted - 2006.05.24 13:14:00 - [60] Quote: Originally by: Leandro Salazar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Hit regardless of range -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Missiles do have range. If you are out of missile range, its not gonna hit you. What he ment is that missile never misses but a turret do. Quote: Originally by: Leandro Salazar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Hit for full damage regardless of range -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Missile dmg is affected by sig radius. yes but u do same dmg each hit. Turrets missed do wrecking, scratch, excelent, normal hits etc Quote: Originally by: Leandro Salazar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - large missiles take less than half as much time to train to T2 as large guns -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But Small guns take less than half as much time to train to T2 as small missiles No they dont they take eaqual time. For a T2 small arty u need Quote: Primary Skill Requirments Sharpshooter III Gunnery II Secondary Skill Requirments Small Projectile Turret V Gunnery I and small missile need Quote: Primary Skill Requirments Missile Launcher Operation I Secondary Skill Requirments Standard Missiles V Missile Launcher Operation II Crap ran put of time gtg
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.24 13:17:00 - [61] Originally by: cytomatrix Originally by: Leandro Salazar - Hit regardless of range Missiles do have range. If you are out of missile range, its not gonna hit you. Originally by: Leandro Salazar - Hit for full damage regardless of range Missile dmg is affected by sig radius. Originally by: Leandro Salazar - large missiles take less than half as much time to train to T2 as large guns But Small guns take less than half as much time to train to T2 as small missiles Originally by: Leandro Salazar - can chose damage type without affecting their DPS - don't require modules to improve weapon performance You got to be kidding me. Ever heard of Ballistic controls and target painters? Originally by: Leandro Salazar - unaffected by tracking disruptors - only slightly affected by Jammers with FOFs Missiles != Guns. And FoFs are useless so people dont carry those things. Originally by: Leandro Salazar - most missile ships can shieldtank, leaving the lows for damage mods and tank support - use no cap But most of the missile ships dont have much low slots. And they need mids to fit shield tank and other modules like target painters, webbers and scramblers. Originally by: Leandro Salazar - specialty ammo to deal with smaller and larger targets Those got nerfed now. Turret advantages over missiles: -Instant damage -Not much affected by target sig radius(only affects accuracy) and if the target is not moving turrets do full dmg unlike missiles. -High DPS with good skills -Amazing wrecking shots -Ability to choose range and dmg. -Mid slots are not needed for tank so you can fit webbers, tracking computers, target painters and many other things. -Lots of low slots for tank and dmg mods and stabs(lol). -Turret ships can snipe -Lots of dmg and accuracy boosting modules. I am training for turrets now. I have tried turrets in test server and i am pretty happy about it. Thank god finally we are getting a turret battleship. :) Missiles do have range. If you are out of missile range, its not gonna hit you. -> Obviously I am talking about them hitting regardless of how close the target is as long as it is in the missiles flight range... sheesh Missile dmg is affected by sig radius. -> Yeah what do you think why I listed target sig radius effect as a gun advantage? But Small guns take less than half as much time to train to T2 as small missiles -> The time difference there is what, a day? a week? With large ones its a difference of like 3 months... You got to be kidding me. Ever heard of Ballistic controls and target painters? -> Okay, target painters are a point, thought they are not as neccessary as tracking comps are for some guns. See above post for BCUs. Guess I should have said medslot-modules for weapon performance as thats what I really meant. Missiles != Guns. And FoFs are useless so people dont carry those things. -> missiles being =! guns invalidates them being uaffected by tracking disruptors how? And people not bothering to carry FoFs makes them useless how? But most of the missile ships dont have much low slots. And they need mids to fit shield tank and other modules like target painters, webbers and scramblers -> Plenty of mids on a Raven or Cerb or the faction ships, only caracal somewhat suffers from this. They can still gank&tank MUCH better than any gun ship, and lowslot shield tank support is better than medslotarmor tank support. Those got nerfed now. -> Still work, just only good anymore rather than superb. -Amazing wrecking shots -> Got me there -Ability to choose range and dmg. -> Hardly an advantage as damage goes down where range goes up while it stays the same for missiles all the time. Maybe if shortrange ammo vastly outdamaged missiles, but as it is the short range ammo is about on par with missiles while the long range one is rather inferior (xcept T2 maybe) tbc ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.24 13:21:00 - [62] -Mid slots are not needed for tank so you can fit webbers, tracking computers, target painters and many other things. -Lots of low slots for tank and dmg mods and stabs(lol). -> Cancel each other out with shield tankers not needing lows for tank and having lots of meds, which I think in fact benefits the shieldtanker more. -Turret ships can snipe -> Repeating advantages to make them look like more? :P (See the instant damage point...) -Lots of dmg and accuracy boosting modules. -> No more damage mods than missiles, and missiles work without the need for accuracy boosting modules, so how is that an advantage for guns? rather for missiles I would say... ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.24 13:26:00 - [63] Originally by: SevenDwarfs rubbish congratulations, that is the biggest load of ******s I've seen in a long time and I sit in the dark cartel public channel. the original reason why missiles were nerfed was because they did full damage to everything. EVERYTHING. Frigs, cruisers and battleships alike took 100% damage from missiles and there was no way of evading them unless you could move at 3k/s. It made level 4 missions a walk in the park (frigs? just torp them. cruisers? torps) and it was a mockery of balance in PVP. No other battleship at the time short of the dominix (and with the heavy drone vs smaller targets nerf, doesn't count anymore) had the ability to anihalate every ship without having to fit a web or the appropriate. So they got balanced. Much like a battleship has sod-all chance of hitting a frig or cruiser without a web or two, missile battleships needed to fit a target painter or two to hit smaller ships for something other than 0.01 damage. Secondly, if you think projectile weapons are better than missiles, you have no idea about the problems with projectiles at the moment. Hell, the fact that you can actually miss a shot with a turret might cause your brain to explode in anger. Against the same sized or larger target, missiles do full damage at any range. Past 2km-3km, projectiles will begin to randomly miss shots, and this only gets worse the further away you go. Would you like 1/2 your missiles to miss when you're 15km away? I didn't think so. Thirdly, hybrids needed some love as they were a pain in the arse to fit on most ships. I can't remember the last time I ran into fitting problems on a caldari ship except when trying to fit a full rack of everything onto a Raven. The range of blaster ships is so small (lower than projectiles) that they need to sacrifice 1/4 of their capacitor just to be able to fit a module to get them into range. That module also increases their sig radius, meaning they'll be taking full damage from your missiles. Forthly, the reason precision missiles were nerfed (and in my personal opinion, they should be removed completely) was because it undid the original missile nerf. If missile users get precision missiles, shouldn't turret users get precision ammo that gives a 10-fold increase in tracking and a 90% reduction in sig resolution? No. Precision heavies allowed you to one volley frigs (which is quite surprising, seeing as with turrets the long-range variant has such poor tracking it can barely hit anything) and precision cruise let you do the same to cruisers. Fithly, please name me one counter to missiles that actually works. ECM? Change to FOFs and keep doing damage. Sensor Damps? Messes up all ships. Tracking Disruptors? Doesn't work on missiles. Defenders? Missiles now move so fast that they are ineffective. Sixthly (god this is a rant), missiles are the* weapon of choice when fighting someone else. The Crow is one of the most overpowered ceptors as it can do full damage with [brockets outside of web range, meaning it can run it's mwd 24/7 and avoid getting shot, something that no other ship can do (besides drone ships, but drones have their own limitations). The raven can take down any bs in a 1v1 when ewar isn't being used (and if it is being used, the raven has more midslots than everything besides the scorp so it can use more ewar). The cerberus's long-range damage was balanced with other hac's close range damage instead of their long-range damage. I could go on and on about how the points you raised are complete arse but I think I've done enough (also, I'm hitting the character limit). I just hope to god you never end up in a situation in life that requires balancing interdepandant systems and you obviously have no idea what you're going on about. click here for a seizure
Nicose	Posted - 2006.05.24 13:57:00 - [64] i think everyone need to just STFU! unless you have flown in combat and trained both missiles and gunnery you have no idea WTF you are talking about! i have done both trained missiles and gunnery and flown ships in both disciplines into combat (where it counts not on a mission or ratting you whining carebears!) i can say whole heartedly that missles have been slightly over nerfed, eved gal and amarr friends agree. my recomendations would be to increase explosion radius to all missiles by 2.5% and put base dmg up on all missiles by 30. however yes the prescision cruise missiles do need nerfing. Gunnery! guns are slightly overpowered especially TII guns (before you whiny gal pilots say ST i use TII guns!) hybrid turrets, lasers and projectiles do need some fine adjustment to level the playing feild a bit, maybe decrase dmg output per second by 5% on certain larger guns and 2.5% on med guns. Training Times!! i can say that training to use TII guns takes longer than training for TII missiles, HOWEVER the support skills for gunnery are lower ranked than the support skills needed for missiles!! Balance Hmmm me thinks so yes!! FINALLY! all you fools whine far too much, every change in EvE is a good thing for one reason..... ADAPTATION! after ever nerf/fix/bug e.c.t. it causes players to adapt. adaptaion is evolution, and if you dont evolve you get left behind and will die or be killed.**
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.24 14:10:00 - [65] Edited by: Krulla on 24/05/2006 14:11:06 Originally by: DragonSnake Edited by: DragonSnake on 24/05/2006 03:25:00 well i guess you can compare it to realy life.. bulits and lighting bolts and field altilery all do more than any missiles out there.. and note the sarcasme Someone calculated that a 425mm slug traveling at near-lightspeed (Your average 425mm railgun charge) would be more powerful than earth's current most powerful nuclear bombs... But EvE is not real life. Real life does not matter, at all, in EvE. And missiles are bloody well fine. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Nicose	Posted - 2006.05.24 14:10:00 - [66] Edited by: Nicose on 24/05/2006 14:10:37 N.B. to a large extent i agree with SAM ^^. P.S above is the nerf time line.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.24 14:11:00 - [67] Originally by: Nicose i have done both trained missiles and gunnery and flown ships in both disciplines into combat (where it counts not on a mission or ratting you whining carebears!) Thanks for invalidating your own post right there. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Talthrus	Posted - 2006.05.24 14:32:00 - [68] Originally by: Nicose Edited by: Nicose on 24/05/2006 14:10:37 N.B. to a large extent i agree with SAM ^^. P.S above is the nerf time line. Uhh ... More like I'll post my thoughts later when I have some time. goes back to work ----------------------
Plancek	Posted - 2006.05.24 14:54:00 - [69] Originally by: Grl Artigas Any Other Race With Useless T2 Ammo (Rage Toprs) And With Out Faction Ammo? Fly A Raven Before You Say Its Overpowered. And People Dont Need To Start A Nerf The Reaven Post Everytime They Get Owned By A Raven. Its Not The Raven Thats Overpowered Its The Raven Pilot Being Better Than You Being a Raven Pilot, and a corpmate of Xori <who utterly despises Caldari users and everything we stand for>, I can tell you that from my experience, what was said here is...accurate. I can easily sum this up, and perhaps it should be made sticky so that every missile vs. turret whiner post from this day forward can simply look at this and find inner peace. NOBODY likes having their toys made smaller, be that toy a missile, turret or what have you. Every time the devs make negative modifications to a toy, people will ***. Is the * warranted? Possibly. What isnt warranted is the misconception that anyone actually cares. Yep, I said it. NO ONE CARES. The devs do not care, the other players around you do not care, your dog does not care. I love missiles myself, yet is there any point to *ing that they have stats that I dont personally agree with? Pffft, anyone who believes THAT needs to go out and purchase themselves a firing neuron. In conclusion, whining about the changes that you cannot affect and no one cares that you disagree with is...pointless. Should CCP ever open up their gamecode to open source and allow player input to shape the image of the EvE universe, perhaps that will change. Until such time, go buy yourselves a happy ending, because unless you do that and pretend that your gripes matter, you will stay as you are. An ignored, unhappy, precariously unsettled forum whiner. FORUM WHINING 4TW! Lord Terror Founder - Fade to Black For the Cattle...Nothing.**
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.05.24 15:26:00 - [70] Precisions were nerfed for them same reason the so-called missile nerf happened. To prevent Rvane from shooting down anyhting thta floats in space, from ceptort to BS. Raven and missileas are still ridiculosly overpowered tho. Thye deal etremely high damage without optimal, tracking or falloff. I say nerf em some more! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
The Wizz117	Posted - 2006.05.24 16:21:00 - [71] Edited by: The Wizz117 on 24/05/2006 16:22:12 precisions are not good vs battle ships precisions are not good vs smaler then battle ships. makes sence to me. missiles are so overpowerd they dont use cap and euh oh yea they olways hit! ha but im going for a chimera then i never have to wurry aboud the crap again!
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.24 16:24:00 - [72] Originally by: The Wizz117 this thread really wasn't complete until the wizz had posted in it click here for a seizure
Astrum Ludus	Posted - 2006.05.24 16:32:00 - [73] Originally by: SevenDwarfs EVE has giving us another update. And with this update another missile nerf. With every update EVE gives more and more power to Projectile and Hybrids and even the Energy weapons, yet they always find a way to lower the Hit Points to some kind of missile. Christ, just think if this goes on long enough things might be balanced!
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.05.24 17:17:00 - [74] Originally by: Grl Artigas Any Other Race With Useless T2 Ammo (Rage Toprs) And With Out Faction Ammo? Fly A Raven Before You Say Its Overpowered. And People Dont Need To Start A Nerf The Reaven Post Everytime They Get Owned By A Raven. Its Not The Raven Thats Overpowered Its The Raven Pilot Being Better Than You Do the math. Oh... and how the hell do you type like that?
Frezik	Posted - 2006.05.24 17:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Grl Artigas Any Other Race With Useless T2 Ammo (Rage Toprs) And With Out Faction Ammo? WTB t2 ammo w/200% tracking bonus ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth
Weirda	Posted - 2006.05.24 19:18:00 - [76] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: SevenDwarfs rubbish truth. __ NOS AS WCS Idea #223579
Lord Augustus	Posted - 2006.05.25 00:50:00 - [77] Grl Artigas Is My Alt My Main Can Fly a T2 Torp or Cruise Raven And A T2 Mega So Plz Shut Up I Dont Use Ravens For Pvp. And i Dont Whine About The Nerfing I Whine When I Hear People Whining About the Raven Being Overpowerd.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.05.25 01:35:00 - [78] Originally by: SevenDwarfs Yes Missiles are not the weapons of choice when fighting another character. But back when EVE first started they were very nice both in PVP and in missions. Now people relay on them for missions. When EVE started missiles sucked except for using them on frigates and cruisers. There weren't even lvl 3 missions then if any missions at all. The Raven was a rail boat and so was the Scorpion. So... what are you talking about plz. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2006.05.25 01:56:00 - [79] I think now that precision lights have been un-nerfed ppl are going to be shouting that the Crow is far too powerfull now. Myself and a corp mate have tested it out. With decent skills in Navigation a few 3% implants for speed etc, named nanos in the lowslots and a T2 mwd you can use precisions and still easily go over 4km/s. At the same time you can fit a sensor booster so your missiles will hit at 50km. If you were to use a Gisti MWD and have a set of low grade snakes stuck in your head you'll easily go over 5km/s while do stupid damage at ranges no other ceptor in the game can hope to match. OK so there is no plate or extender on for any sort of tank but even so don't ffs tell me missiles are crap and turrets have more love etc because if you do you're talking bullsh1t. Those sort at least got a massive boost in the last patch!
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2006.05.25 02:22:00 - [80] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson If you were to use a Gisti MWD and have a set of low grade snakes stuck in your head you'll easily go over 5km/s while do stupid damage at ranges no other ceptor in the game can hope to match. You get what you pay for when you buy faction mods and pirate implants. Beyond that I don't see validity in your argument. Anyone whining about guns being more uber than missiles or vice versa have their heads in the sand. They are two COMPLETELY different weapons systems, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. People tend to whine when they get hit hard by a specific setup, and end up crying nerf, usually without examining the facts. I've honestly heard enough of the "MISSILES UB3R NURF NOW" and "GUNZ DO INSTAn DMG!" complaints. If you have intelligent, creative ideas about how to better balance the systems, speak your peace. If not, stfu. Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com
Kelgen Thann	Posted - 2006.05.25 03:21:00 - [81] Missles are good when you're using rockets and lights in PvP. All else missles are crap. In fleet battles they are usless. about 95% of all the fleet fights I've been in are at 100-150km range. and at that range your missles will not hit their targets before the primary is destroyed or warps out.... PvP Turrets without exception for fleet battles. PvE Missles are good. becasue the targets are dumb
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.05.25 03:34:00 - [82] Originally by: DragonSnake well one.. hitting a frig would be dificult with a turret weapon yes.. but then look at the also main difference between a turret and a missile.. ROF flight time.. then what turret weapons effects speed and cap recharge rate?? This proves that all the missle advocates saying that the patch is a horrid nurf are noobs. ANY turret using most T2 ammo affects speed and cap recharge rate/max cap!! Dear god Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
SevenDwarfs	Posted - 2006.05.25 03:51:00 - [83] Thank you all for your responses. i just put that thread up to see what all would be said.. like i said to start with i find it funny that they keep nerfing the missiles and boosting the turrets. i honestly dont care.. i like how well my missiles perform.. there are up sides and down side to all weapons.. none are better than others its just how you train your character and what you fly. all t2 ammo/ missiles have the same hits to cap and speed. i just wanted to bring to the light how eve operates.. lil messed up.. but fully understandable.. balance is needed but for what cost. maybe what many think is an over powered missile makes up for the very low rof on most turrets which can equal out what a single missile time and damage of one turret to time and damage to a single missile.yes many factors happen to get a perfect strick but at the same time a turret round moves so much faster than the flight time of a missile.. im not doggin on the fact turret weapons take time to train and take more in effect to make those perfect hits. all i wanted to do is point out the nerf.. thank you all for your interest in the subject.. (even though most of you all saw what i wrote in a different content) ~SevenDwarfs~ ~TOOC~
4 LOM	Posted - 2006.05.25 03:54:00 - [84] I am a missiles user. First off this nerf/boost was really needed for missiles, the precision cruise/heavy missiles should have never done as much damage to a big target as the normal cruise/heavy missiles did. This was needed and no one can argue that. What i am really excited about is the boost to light precision missiles, means i might actually think about running them on my crow (maybe not sure) and i am definatly going to try running an assault launcher setup on my cerberus... more damage then normal lights and more precision with not that big of a speed hit, very nice. What i dont like hearing is people saying that missiles in general need a nerf, frankly they dont and are fairly balanced with guns (not the same... but balalenced) both have there strengths and weaknesses but overall they are balanced (and dont argue with me you know they are.... look at it from every aspect not just from what you are concerned about. wow really makes me anoyed when people argue one aspect that yes missiles are better at but completely leave out everything that turrets are better at and use the arguments to claim missiles are way more uber.) Lastly what needs to be looked at now is tech 2 rockets... Rage: ok wow yes teh damage increase is nutz, but -45% cap recharge ouch on a frigate that is really gona hurt cap recharge is your life not cap totals... makes these missiles almost completely useless (correct me if i have missed a use) they are designed to be used vs large ships (look at explosion radius) so the cap nerf means with nos on you boom you are gone, what i sujest is remove the cap penalty and have the explosion radius and explosion velocity penaltys stay in effect, this means you can use them against large targets fine but you wont do damage against small targets so they are balanced. Javelin: These are slightly usefull i have used them... they would be a good alternative weapon systems for slower moving frigates (that dont care about speed... assualts? still a big penalty but a fair trade for the range) only problem is you get a massive nerf to explosion velocity and explosion radius... meaning any ship going over 600m/s (roughly with skills) takes reduced damage... and inreceptors also take reduced damage due to the explosion radius hit. So in order to do good damage to anything going over 600-700m/s (most frigs and alot of cruisers... even some bs) this total voids there long range bonus as who cares if you hit a bs with a rocket (we allready have the Rage for that anways). you need to web anything fast to do any damage and you are going alot slower so you cant do that and you dont want long range missile for a close range web fight anyways. What i prupose to fix this missiles is to put the explosion radius and explosion velocity back to standard rocket numebers... the -30% speed reduction per launcher is enough of a penalty. thanks for reading Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Redkill	Posted - 2006.05.25 04:02:00 - [85] heh i say missles need to be reduce an im happy with the reduction they are having i use both missles an lasers an missles seem be given more power an should be decreased a hheavy misless does like 180 an a enrgy weopon with out spec tech 2 med guns like 100 or somthing so i say reduce missles by muhc more :D
SevenDwarfs	Posted - 2006.05.25 04:06:00 - [86] like i said speed of rof and damage done of a turret (usually about 2-4 fires) to the single shot missile usually equals the same "usually" so please dont think that i have not taken all that into interest when i wrote this ~SevenDwarfs~ ~TOOC~
4 LOM	Posted - 2006.05.25 04:12:00 - [87] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson I think now that precision lights have been un-nerfed ppl are going to be shouting that the Crow is far too powerfull now. Myself and a corp mate have tested it out. With decent skills in Navigation a few 3% implants for speed etc, named nanos in the lowslots and a T2 mwd you can use precisions and still easily go over 4km/s. At the same time you can fit a sensor booster so your missiles will hit at 50km. If you were to use a Gisti MWD and have a set of low grade snakes stuck in your head you'll easily go over 5km/s while do stupid damage at ranges no other ceptor in the game can hope to match. OK so there is no plate or extender on for any sort of tank but even so don't ffs tell me missiles are crap and turrets have more love etc because if you do you're talking bullsh1t. Those sort at least got a massive boost in the last patch! Not sure about the precision lights if they are overpowerd no or not... but ummm they dont have a longer flight time or faster velocity so they will be doing the same range as normal light missiles your argument has nothing to do with the range you can achive with these missiles it has to do with the rnage of light missiles in general. I am undecided if i will run the precision lights on my crow or not. I do have a full low grade snake set, and 2x 5% mwd/ab speed, and a 5% speed implant and a gisti mwd. So i go very fast, to me light missiles hit fairly good dont know if the extra damage i will get from precisisons are going to be worth that speed loss (probably) but i dont know yet. However if you were not me just running a crow without a gisti mwd or fancy implants i dont think they would be worth it at all in an interceptor speed is life. Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
kveldulfson	Posted - 2006.05.25 07:13:00 - [88] Originally by: Grl Artigas Fly A Raven Before You Say Its Overpowered. And People Dont Need To Start A Nerf The Reaven Post Everytime They Get Owned By A Raven. Its Not The Raven Thats Overpowered Its The Raven Pilot Being Better Than You But eve players seem to love to whine especialy when they a) get owned (handed their ass on a plate if you prefer) b) can't kill a battleship with their one frigate c) they are a noob but think that they should be able to pawn anything in their first real frigate after the noob ship d) you pop the roid they "own" in a roid belt when they are mining in a frigate and you are in a barge. Not sure to laugh at the whining or cry !!
Tarphon	Posted - 2006.05.25 07:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Shadowsword Might have something to do with a stat called "explosion radius" on your rage torp, and them being designed to hit capital ships, but it's okay, I know some of you Caldaris have a hard time thinking about anything else than the "damage" stat on your weapons. Well if ôRage Torpö is made for ôCapital Shipsö my Javalin, Spike, Null and Void ammo for my tech II rails and blasters should also be for ôCapital shipsö but I use it on Battleships and well all ships just fine. I just want my Rage torps to do more than my fracking tech I torps against a battleship Originally by: Tehyarec Always sad and hilarious at the same time when people complain when their precious "I-WIN" buttons, also known as missiles, are nerfed to be a bit more balanced compared to other weapons, as if that'd reduce them to throwing sticks or something. Sheesh. Yea youÆre right its an ôI-WINö button thatÆs why everyone uses them all the time, hrrr hrrr Balanced = I can fire off 3 rounds, have tea, warp out and return to fire again before those missiles get closeà Oh and nurf BMÆs too those Industrial ships are just too fast to jump it an Exploit!!!! ItÆs always sad and hilarious at the same time when people complain when they have to work for their precious ganks Originally by: Testy Mctest This is the second post Ive seen in the last ten minutes that reads to me as: "Hello, I have no clue about game mechanics" This is the 1000th post I seen that reads to MOST as ôHello, IÆm a stupid altö Post with your main or just STFU alt
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2006.05.25 08:00:00 - [90] Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson If you were to use a Gisti MWD and have a set of low grade snakes stuck in your head you'll easily go over 5km/s while do stupid damage at ranges no other ceptor in the game can hope to match. You get what you pay for when you buy faction mods and pirate implants. Beyond that I don't see validity in your argument. Anyone whining about guns being more uber than missiles or vice versa have their heads in the sand. They are two COMPLETELY different weapons systems, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. People tend to whine when they get hit hard by a specific setup, and end up crying nerf, usually without examining the facts. I've honestly heard enough of the "MISSILES UB3R NURF NOW" and "GUNZ DO INSTAn DMG!" complaints. If you have intelligent, creative ideas about how to better balance the systems, speak your peace. If not, stfu. I wasn't validating my point by the use of implants or faction mods. I made the point that with ordinary T2 gear the Crow is simply gonna be powerfull with precisions for the same cost that it is now and a few implants that are on the market for 500k ISK! With faction mods I doubt many other ceptors will be able to compete with it now either no matter how much they pay and what they use in the way of implants! By this I mean beating and killing not just chasing it off! BTW i'm not whining. I realise they are 2 different weapon systems and I use both all the time and do really well with both and will continue to adapt as and when changes come out and also take advantage of any nice changes like the one to precision light!
Jasai Kameron	Posted - 2006.05.25 10:37:00 - [91] Originally by: Tarphon Yea youÆre right its an ôI-WINö button thatÆs why everyone uses them all the time, hrrr hrrr Balanced = I can fire off 3 rounds, have tea, warp out and return to fire again before those missiles get closeà Oh and nurf BMÆs too those Industrial ships are just too fast to jump it an Exploit!!!! ItÆs always sad and hilarious at the same time when people complain when they have to work for their precious ganks But aren't you complaining that you have to work for your precious ganks? I'm honestly confused. Are you complaining that you can't kill gate-running industrial ships in your Raven? What you do is if you see an industrial jumping through a gate, you send a couple of frigs through after it and scramble it on the other side before it can warp. If you are only running the gate-camp all on your own, with no frigates, don't expect to be able to kill everything. Aint going to happen and neither should it. (I apologise if you were being sarcastic about the BM thing. I couldn't tell.) That's what people mean when they talk about an "I-win" button. No ship should be good at everything. You are complaining that missiles take too long to hit from long range. In a fleet battle, if a ship has to warp away because missiles are inbound his side loses the advantage of that ships firepower for a fair while (can take a darn long while to get back to the fight when you have lag). That said, no ones saying that Raven is the best long range ship. But it seems to me that it's one of the best mid-range ships and one of the best short-range ship, with very impressive flexibility. So why exactly should it be uber at long range? Caldari are finally getting a rail boat so that you can train up some gunnery skills and use it for long range. Sounds fair to me. If you want to be good at everything in this game, you are going to have to train more than one skill tree.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.25 10:53:00 - [92] Originally by: Kelgen Thann Missles are good when you're using rockets and lights in PvP. All else missles are crap. In fleet battles they are usless. No wonder people think missiles are crap when they also think any EVE besides frigate pvp is fleet battles, where they indeed suck. Then again, at the same time it is no wonder I think that missiles are overpowered, since I do pretty much everything in EVE EXCEPT fleet battles, and missiles wtfpwn at everything I do with the exception of sniping rogue drones. I guess this could be called balance, but it is a strange one indeed. __________________________________ Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Shemaul	Posted - 2006.05.25 11:00:00 - [93] The funniest thing about theese topic is always the same. All turret users that flame Missile's post with all their cries and complaint about "missile overpower". I still have to see missile users that complain everytime turret users users ask for more firepower. Do u use missiles, do u KNOW missiles? NO??? DO u use turrets? YES? Go write in some "i want more turret firepower" and don't bother here with your (most of the time) stupid comments about missiles.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.25 11:24:00 - [94] Originally by: Shemaul The funniest thing about theese topic is always the same. All turret users that flame Missile's post with all their cries and complaint about "missile overpower". I still have to see missile users that complain everytime turret users users ask for more firepower. Do u use missiles, do u KNOW missiles? NO??? DO u use turrets? YES? Go write in some "i want more turret firepower" and don't bother here with your (most of the time) stupid comments about missiles. I don't see too many cries for turret users wanting more power... Most are perfectly fine with the way turrets work, it is just that missiles work so much better in almost anything but sniping/fleet, so they would like them to be brought down a bit more. Indeed it is the missile users that turn into crybabies at every step towards balance and make stupid posts, because their precious uber-toys are brought in line with the others. And from the perspective of people with a better view for balance, that looks rather childish indeed. And I am in fact a turret user who recently turned to missiles because they perform so much better, so don't try that 'you don't know missiles' routine. It is a large part of the missiles users who don't know turrets instead. And I cannot blame them, aside from fleets (and maybe gatesniping if you are into that) there is really no good reason to even bother with turrets when you get more power twice as fast with missiles... __________________________________ Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Shemaul	Posted - 2006.05.25 11:51:00 - [95] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Shemaul The funniest thing about theese topic is always the same. All turret users that flame Missile's post with all their cries and complaint about "missile overpower". I still have to see missile users that complain everytime turret users users ask for more firepower. Do u use missiles, do u KNOW missiles? NO??? DO u use turrets? YES? Go write in some "i want more turret firepower" and don't bother here with your (most of the time) stupid comments about missiles. I don't see too many cries for turret users wanting more power... Most are perfectly fine with the way turrets work, it is just that missiles work so much better in almost anything but sniping/fleet, so they would like them to be brought down a bit more. Indeed it is the missile users that turn into crybabies at every step towards balance and make stupid posts, because their precious uber-toys are brought in line with the others. And from the perspective of people with a better view for balance, that looks rather childish indeed. And I am in fact a turret user who recently turned to missiles because they perform so much better, so don't try that 'you don't know missiles' routine. It is a large part of the missiles users who don't know turrets instead. And I cannot blame them, aside from fleets (and maybe gatesniping if you are into that) there is really no good reason to even bother with turrets when you get more power twice as fast with missiles... That's not my point. I play this game since opening, and i never join a thread talking about turrets cause i don't use turrets. That's the only point. Why missiles post are full of turret criers? People tend to see only the shining part of missiles (PVE missions) and since 99% of whiners don't use them, they know nothing about bad sides. Anyway, if missiles are (in your opinion) so good, u have 2 way: train for them or ask for better turret. I'm tired to see people ask to nerf missiles to balance the game. U can balance the game by making other weap system more powerfull, or other ways. People complaining about missile power never explain their point of view. Talking about mission runners? Missiles are great! Talking about PVP? Missiles are quite normal. Talking about sniping raid? Missiles are USELESS CRAP. Keep writing: "missiles are "i win button" nerf them!" Only keep me laugh about theese poor players.
Phelan Lore	Posted - 2006.05.25 11:53:00 - [96] It's the interceptor lobby's fault!!!!
Levin Cavil	Posted - 2006.05.25 12:08:00 - [97] Edited by: Levin Cavil on 25/05/2006 12:08:26 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 24/05/2006 06:07:53 Originally by: Tarphon Why dont they just remove the fracking Caldari from the game, this is getting real stupid. I agree. Because Caldari ships suck. They are completely useless. They can't kill anything in PVE, they can't kill anything in PVP. The Raven gets owned by a freaking Omen... What's the point? throws up hands EDIT: And... AFAIK, they did not nerf torps. I once soloed 47 precision cruise ravens in my omen, with no modules. Nerf the omen!! ungimp raven pls! ---------- <Kayosoni> I'm actually normal
HankMurphy	Posted - 2006.05.25 12:18:00 - [98] Edited by: HankMurphy on 25/05/2006 12:18:08 warning, not much constructive here... but pointless post anyway. wish they lock topics like this like they do any critisism of the tech II lottery i really honestly hope they nerf you to the stoneage, i could really give 2 **ts I joined this game almost immediately after they invented the nerf bat when they struck down the artillery with bit nerf.... that was 2 years ago Now they did fix 1200's, unfortunately mine have all rusted to dust waiting. you may want to consider getting a sander and some primer for those launchers :) especially w/ your salty tears dripping all over them! rumor has it hankmurphy is a closet raven pilot*
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.25 12:31:00 - [99] Originally by: Lord Augustus Grl Artigas Is My Alt My Main Can Fly a T2 Torp or Cruise Raven And A T2 Mega So Plz Shut Up I Dont Use Ravens For Pvp. And i Dont Whine About The Nerfing I Whine When I Hear People Whining About the Raven Being Overpowerd. No, you can't fly both t2 raven and mega. My character is older than yours and I can only use a t2 fitted mega, but am nowhere near using another race's battleship with any efficiency. Maybe you stole some +50 implants from tux or something? Tell us! Until then plz stfu noob. Bottomline: everyone who says missiles are not ridiculously overpowered now and dont't need to be removed from the game, along with all caldari characters and also other race chars that have more than 500k sp in missiles and their accounts permbanned.. are mentally retarded and have to be killed, their bodies burnt and buried deep under the ground or ejected into space to prevent the healty people from being infected with this stupidity disease. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Ceshor	Posted - 2006.05.25 12:42:00 - [100] My 2 cents on the matter. :-) Yes, the Heavy Missile Precision were a bit overpowered against figates. However, in my opinion in would of been a much nicer nerf to just bring the precision up to 100 (base is 125 for non-precison) and leave the damage where it is. The precison missiles already have a lower speed. Adding less damage and less speed and cost ALOT more money kinda makes them pointless. I guess all I am trying to say is that maybe there would of been a better way of nerfing them. Just my thoughts.
Lord Augustus	Posted - 2006.05.25 12:52:00 - [101] Edited by: Lord Augustus on 25/05/2006 12:54:23 Edited by: Lord Augustus on 25/05/2006 12:53:51 I Can, This Character Never Trained Anything That Was Not Combat Related, I Have Never Trained Industial, Social, Sience, Trade Or Any Other Skill Type That Wasnt Combat Related. He Dosent Fly Hacs Nor Interceptors. He Only Flys Shuttles And Battleships. Its Not My Fault You Didnt Specialize Your Character Noob?, Are You Offended By Me Showing You That You Are Wrong?
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.25 13:30:00 - [102] Originally by: Lord Augustus Edited by: Lord Augustus on 25/05/2006 12:54:23 Edited by: Lord Augustus on 25/05/2006 12:53:51 I Can, This Character Never Trained Anything That Was Not Combat Related, I Have Never Trained Industial, Social, Sience, Trade Or Any Other Skill Type That Wasnt Combat Related. He Dosent Fly Hacs Nor Interceptors. He Only Flys Shuttles And Battleships. Its Not My Fault You Didnt Specialize Your Character Noob?, Are You Offended By Me Showing You That You Are Wrong? Nope, you are just an idiot, and that all you've shown so far. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Frezik	Posted - 2006.05.25 13:31:00 - [103] Originally by: 4 LOM Javelin: These are slightly usefull i have used them... they would be a good alternative weapon systems for slower moving frigates (that dont care about speed... assualts? still a big penalty but a fair trade for the range) only problem is you get a massive nerf to explosion velocity and explosion radius... meaning any ship going over 600m/s (roughly with skills) takes reduced damage... and inreceptors also take reduced damage due to the explosion radius hit. So in order to do good damage to anything going over 600-700m/s (most frigs and alot of cruisers... even some bs) this total voids there long range bonus as who cares if you hit a bs with a rocket (we allready have the Rage for that anways). No way. The missile damage formula shows that a target must be going explosion velocity + 1500 m/s for damage to be significantly reduced. For everyone else, explosion radius is the most important modifier. Few frigs with an AB are going to reach that speed, and even fewer with an MWD will make up the increased radius with their speed. A very specialized BS setup can do it, but I doubt you'll see it in real use. Intercpeters are about the only ships that significantly benefit from the explosion velocity part of the equasion. ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth
Lord Augustus	Posted - 2006.05.25 13:51:00 - [104] Originally by: Breed Love Nope, you are just an idiot, and that all you've shown so far. Ok Good. I Knew You Wouldnt Have Anything Coherent To Say
HankMurphy	Posted - 2006.05.25 14:08:00 - [105] Edited by: HankMurphy on 25/05/2006 14:08:17 Originally by: Lord Augustus Originally by: Breed Love Nope, you are just an idiot, and that all you've shown so far. Ok Good. I Knew You Wouldnt Have Anything Coherent To Say you two want left alone for your lovers spat? newbs....
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.25 14:14:00 - [106] Originally by: HankMurphy you two want left alone for your lovers spat? newbs.... Maybe you should just not post? We are having a constructive discussion here . You have nothing to say about the matter anyways. ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Arbenowskee	Posted - 2006.05.25 14:21:00 - [107] When precision missiles were fist introduced i was very suprised that they do the SAME dmg than normal ones. I am missile user (8 mio SP in missiles and counting) and i think they were overpowered. Yes missile boats do crappy dmg compared to guns, but what differes them is that they DO hit every time, even for a small amount of dmg and are very flexible range wise. So i'd say nice balance here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sig too large. Maximum size 400x120 and 24000 bytes. -Oiri Yusko
HankMurphy	Posted - 2006.05.25 14:31:00 - [108] Originally by: Arbenowskee When precision missiles were fist introduced i was very suprised that they do the SAME dmg than normal ones. I am missile user (8 mio SP in missiles and counting) and i think they were overpowered. Yes missile boats do crappy dmg compared to guns, but what differes them is that they DO hit every time, even for a small amount of dmg and are very flexible range wise. So i'd say nice balance here. WOW, all i need to hear now is a Republican say the Iraq war was a bad idea and i can die happy.
Trefnis	Posted - 2006.05.25 14:37:00 - [109] the problem with turrets/missiles users are that: 1. turret pilot can warp at 100km - 170km and instapop frig/ceptor/small cruiser (im tempest pilot and i know it happens), those are free killmails but frig at 100km pose no threat at all. 1.a turret pilot ends < 50km from frig, if its ceptor it may get to you before you align and then you die as you will never hit frig up close 2. missile user warp at 100km - 170km spam missiles and watch ppl warp away, no fun at all and no free killmails 2.a missile user get < 50km or even jump in to frig camp and is well invulnerable as he can kill them all in one or two volleys (pre patch) and then warp away. It really depends what you prefer, free killmails and more risk or safe travel. Or get tempest with 6x 1400mm t2 and 2x cruise t2 :P Minmatar ftw! \o/
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.25 18:52:00 - [110] Originally by: Shemaul The funniest thing about theese topic is always the same. All turret users that flame Missile's post with all their cries and complaint about "missile overpower". I don't think missiles are overpowered. I think they don't require enough skills to use. Originally by: Shemaul I still have to see missile users that complain everytime turret users users ask for more firepower. ORLY? How long have you been reading those forums? Not very long, apperantly. Originally by: Shemaul Do u use missiles, do u KNOW missiles? Yes. I am just shy of two milion missile SP. Originally by: Shemaul NO??? Yes. Originally by: Shemaul DO u use turrets? Yes. I have 6.5 million gunnery SP. Originally by: Shemaul YES? Indeed! Originally by: Shemaul Go write in some "i want more turret firepower" and don't bother here with your (most of the time) stupid comments about missiles. Um. I think the DPs of both missiles and turrets is just fine. What is retarded is the fact that the short range weapons for missiles have a range of 80km if you use t1, and 250km if you use t2. And YET do about the same DPS as autocannons. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.25 18:53:00 - [111] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Stuff Are star wars sigs with EvE target brackets the new FOTM in sigs? Reminds me of those couple of months where everyone was ripping off Evol's "Evolution made me.... X!".. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.05.25 18:55:00 - [112] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 25/05/2006 18:55:11 Originally by: Krulla Um. I think the DPs of both missiles and turrets is just fine. What is retarded is the fact that the short range weapons for missiles have a range of 80km if you use t1, and 250km if you use t2. And YET do about the same DPS as autocannons. Not to mention, absolutely no tracking issues and a very low range dependance (which is proportionnal to falloff for turrets). Effectively freeing up two mids in gangs (if not solo). NB.
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.25 19:43:00 - [113] Originally by: Krulla Originally by: Leandro Salazar Stuff Are star wars sigs with EvE target brackets the new FOTM in sigs? Reminds me of those couple of months where everyone was ripping off Evol's "Evolution made me.... X!".. Pure coincidence, I have been working on this sig for about 6 weeks now (took so long because I suck at it as evidenced in my sig lol) and finally finished it today. I had Tarkin in my sig before that, and he has been around in my forum sigs in other games for 5+ years, so definitely not just fotm :P --------- Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Krulla	Posted - 2006.05.25 20:16:00 - [114] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Krulla Originally by: Leandro Salazar Stuff Are star wars sigs with EvE target brackets the new FOTM in sigs? Reminds me of those couple of months where everyone was ripping off Evol's "Evolution made me.... X!".. Pure coincidence, I have been working on this sig for about 6 weeks now (took so long because I suck at it as evidenced in my sig lol) and finally finished it today. I had Tarkin in my sig before that, and he has been around in my forum sigs in other games for 5+ years, so definitely not just fotm :P There's at least four of us now! \o/ Let's start a club! Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Grey Area	Posted - 2006.05.25 23:27:00 - [115] Edited by: Grey Area on 25/05/2006 23:32:24 Just some omissions. No one has mentioned the cost of T2 missiles. Now that they are less effective, will the price drop? There are no precision FOF missiles, so citing their performance is not a valid comparison...you take one penalty from going from precision to "normal" missiles, thene the FOF penalty (75% damage) on top of that, then they all target your attacker's drones anyway (and of course, because the drone is a small target, it takes very little damage from (for example) an FOF cruise, because of the sig radius rules...so the drones never actually die), and your FOFs are a waste of time. Someone said precision missiles "undid the original nerf" by allowing big launchers to kill small targets. By that logic, if precision missiles were overpowered, then so are wrecking shots (and you don't have to pay a fortune for wrecking shots). Training - yes it takes longr to train for turrets. But you get more choice of Tech II weapons. For example, training for Tech II Cruise allows you to use a Tech II cruise launcher, and that's all. Training for Tech II large Railguns gives you THREE variants. Tracking disrupters cripple turrets. True. Fix the disrupters then, don't try and bring missiles down to the same level. That said, you have tracking computers which can offset the effects of a tracking disrupter. We don't have any modules that can shoot down Defender missiles (yes, I know, they SUCK right now, but they are apparently going to be "FIXED"). That really will be the death knell for missile users in PVP. If the NPCs also get a similar level of improvement, then there's going to be a LOT of cheap Ravens on sale in Motsu. (NPC BS's can quite happily down 50% of a Raven's output at distances over 25km) The sad thing is, I think that without the defender fix, it was actually CLOSE to balance, but with a proposed defender fix just around the corner, it's all up in the air again. Scrap defenders altogether, introduce decoys that draw fire from ALL incoming sources (i.e. they confuse your targetting system, rather than affect the weapon directly). Fairness restored. They would be SLIGHTLY more effective against missiles, as missiles in flight would be lost if the previous salvo destroyed the decoy. Tough. Get closer. But I don't know why I bother suggesting ideas any more. At least 50% of the people here will read the first line and discount it a "just another missile whine". sigh BTW, since credentials seem to matter here, I have 10.3 million SP in missiles, and 5 million in gunnery. Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.25 23:36:00 - [116] lol, simply lol --------------------------------
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.25 23:42:00 - [117] Tbh missiles should be removed alltogether as a weapon system from the game. Caus they are just too difficult to balance. They either are too good or too crap. Ofc all caldari characters and those with too many sp in missiles have to be deleted too caus they are useless now.. Then everyone will be happy.. To bad I'm not a dev . ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.26 00:20:00 - [118] Originally by: Grey Area Someone said precision missiles "undid the original nerf" by allowing big launchers to kill small targets. By that logic, if precision missiles were overpowered, then so are wrecking shots (and you don't have to pay a fortune for wrecking shots). Patently false. You can avoid wrecking shows by keeping your transversal high. There is NO WAY to avoid prescision messiles except an immediate warp. Hence the ENTIRELY justified nerf.
Tarphon	Posted - 2006.05.26 03:39:00 - [119] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: Tarphon Yea youÆre right its an ôI-WINö button thatÆs why everyone uses them all the time, hrrr hrrr Balanced = I can fire off 3 rounds, have tea, warp out and return to fire again before those missiles get closeà Oh and nurf BMÆs too those Industrial ships are just too fast to jump it an Exploit!!!! ItÆs always sad and hilarious at the same time when people complain when they have to work for their precious ganks But aren't you complaining that you have to work for your precious ganks? I'm honestly confused. Are you complaining that you can't kill gate-running industrial ships in your Raven? What you do is if you see an industrial jumping through a gate, you send a couple of frigs through after it and scramble it on the other side before it can warp. If you are only running the gate-camp all on your own, with no frigates, don't expect to be able to kill everything. Aint going to happen and neither should it. (I apologise if you were being sarcastic about the BM thing. I couldn't tell.) That's what people mean when they talk about an "I-win" button. No ship should be good at everything. You are complaining that missiles take too long to hit from long range. In a fleet battle, if a ship has to warp away because missiles are inbound his side loses the advantage of that ships firepower for a fair while (can take a darn long while to get back to the fight when you have lag). That said, no ones saying that Raven is the best long range ship. But it seems to me that it's one of the best mid-range ships and one of the best short-range ship, with very impressive flexibility. So why exactly should it be uber at long range? Caldari are finally getting a rail boat so that you can train up some gunnery skills and use it for long range. Sounds fair to me. If you want to be good at everything in this game, you are going to have to train more than one skill tree. Sorry mate all the text you quoted was my sarcastic responces. My skills arent so good that I dont have to work for ganks, that would be boring anyway. I dont shoot Industrials unless they are red, or Im ordered to. I love BM's, otherwise I would hate traveling any distance over five jumps away from home, traveling sucks I want to get there. thats why I use jump clones also for the record. I dont PVP in my Raven and I rarely use missiles in pvp. I'm not complaining about the speed or the fact I do laughable damage (yes I actually laugh) to crusers and frigates, thats what drone are for. I just think my tech 2 "anti-ship" torpedos should do more damage then my "standard" torpedos to battleships. I only use my Raven for ratting and the occisional mission to help a mate out. I am over it now, I got rid of the tech 2 launchers and went back to standard torps (they are cheaper anyway) I cant wait for the Caldari Rail ship to come out, I didnt know there was one on the board until this thread. That will be glorious And on as a last note, thanks for being cordial with your response Jasei (thatÆs not sarcasm)
Aristides Malone	Posted - 2006.05.26 04:58:00 - [120] Originally by: Lord Augustus Edited by: Lord Augustus on 25/05/2006 12:54:23 Edited by: Lord Augustus on 25/05/2006 12:53:51 I Can, This Character Never Trained Anything That Was Not Combat Related, I Have Never Trained Industial, Social, Sience, Trade Or Any Other Skill Type That Wasnt Combat Related. He Dosent Fly Hacs Nor Interceptors. He Only Flys Shuttles And Battleships. Its Not My Fault You Didnt Specialize Your Character Noob?, Are You Offended By Me Showing You That You Are Wrong? Capital Letters Begin Sentences And Proper Nouns. In other news, I think the raven pilots should stop telling everyone else to use missles and see how 'gimp' they are. I think said raven pilots should take a turret battleship up against any half-assed, raggedy peice of crap noob raven pilot and see what a truely difficult nut those things are to ***. Now, how long until I get attacked by some jumped-up, holier-then-thou, 'l33th4x' raven ****?
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.05.26 05:20:00 - [121] Originally by: SevenDwarfs And with this update another missile nerf. Missiles has yet to be nerfed. They always cause damage, the amount of damage inflicted is always the same. Until those two bugs are properly fixed, missiles can not be "nerfed". Originally by: SevenDwarfs With every update EVE gives more and more power to Projectile and Hybrids and even the Energy weapons, yet they always find a way to lower the Hit Points to some kind of missile. And still, with T2 Heavy Blasters, I MISS shots causing 0hp damage. The amount of damage inflicted per shot is all over the map. Some shots land for 20hp damage, some hit for 150hp damage, next one is 92hp damage, another is for 230hp damage... once in a while, we see a wrecking shot for 512hp damage. With missiles, what you get the first shot, you'll get every other shot. When you, as a Caldari, have to learn about, "tactics", a word Webster thought was important enough to add to the dictionary, then I'll listen to your complaints. Until then, Caldari complaints regarding Missiles are just ambient noise.
Gorgons	Posted - 2006.05.26 08:18:00 - [122] Edited by: Gorgons on 26/05/2006 08:24:58 Originally by: Breed Love Bottomline: everyone who says missiles are not ridiculously overpowered now and dont't need to be removed from the game, along with all caldari characters and also other race chars that have more than 500k sp in missiles and their accounts permbanned.. are mentally retarded and have to be killed, their bodies burnt and buried deep under the ground or ejected into space to prevent the healty people from being infected with this stupidity disease. Get back to your mining, slave ---------------------------------- OMG! what does it say...
Akkarin Pagan	Posted - 2006.05.26 11:31:00 - [123] This thread has convinced me. After I come back form holiday next week, I'm training up to buy me a torp spewing Raven for carebearing in to finance my PvP habit now that my corp will have some targets. I need 5 weeks to be anywhere near effective in a Tempest or a Typhoon (and I'm sure some will say I will never be effective in a 'phoon:)). In 2 weeks I join the darkside to earn some quick isk while I train to fly a real battleship I'm fed up of players younger than me reaping the benefits of this ship. The only BS in game that does not require 1 single lvl 5 skill to be effective, and mount a T2 tank into the bargin. How can people say that this is balanced?
Kery Nysell	Posted - 2006.05.26 11:57:00 - [124] @Breed Love : can I have some of what you're smoking, please ? Missile may be overpowered, but suppressing them and all the caldari characters is not a solution ... according to the whiners, 75% of the players are caldari characters, that would drive CCP to extinction ... Please use your brain before posting.
Lord Augustus	Posted - 2006.05.26 13:00:00 - [125] I Use Capital Letters Where I Want To. Never Told You To Train Missiles, The Only Thing I Want Turret Users To Do Is To Stop Whining Couse They Are Nerfing Missiles Just To Shut You Up.
Cohkka	Posted - 2006.05.26 15:45:00 - [126] Originally by: Lord Augustus They Are Nerfing Missiles Just To Shut You Up. And they're doing a good job. Non the less, you have no valid arguments. Missiles need an overhaul, the way they work atm is just... wrong. I agree that changing them to some kind of turret is not the way it should be done. They have to be unique and fill ONE purpose as any other weapon system does. ATM they are good at anything except sniping (omg, what a loss).
Grey Area	Posted - 2006.05.27 19:59:00 - [127] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Grey Area Someone said precision missiles "undid the original nerf" by allowing big launchers to kill small targets. By that logic, if precision missiles were overpowered, then so are wrecking shots (and you don't have to pay a fortune for wrecking shots). Patently false. You can avoid wrecking shows by keeping your transversal high. There is NO WAY to avoid prescision messiles except an immediate warp. Hence the ENTIRELY justified nerf. Maya, is there a course you took to spout crap like this? You are saying that wrecking shots NEVER happen unless the opposing pilot is as dumb as a box of hair. I guess there must be a LOT of dumb pilots out there, given how many sigs and bios I see that contain the traditional "wrecking shot gloat". And to the previous poster who said missiles are "good at everything except sniping". Sorry, but missiles are only good against NPCs. As far as I'm concerned, that's ONE thing...and most people say that PVP is more important than PVE, so missiles are only good at the "less important" combat. Maybe that's why they get shafted all the time. Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.27 20:10:00 - [128] No, that is what YOU are saying. I am saying that there are reasonable ways to avoid getting hit by guns. There are NO reasonable ways to avoid being hit by missiles, and so different constraints apply. THAT is why the offending prescision missiles were nerfed. Missiles are HIGHLY useful in PvP. On certain ships. And yes...wrecking shots. How do you know it's not on an interceptor which messed up and got double-webbed and target painted, for example?
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.05.27 21:04:00 - [129] Originally by: Grey Area And to the previous poster who said missiles are "good at everything except sniping". Sorry, but missiles are only good against NPCs. As far as I'm concerned, that's ONE thing...and most people say that PVP is more important than PVE, so missiles are only good at the "less important" combat. Maybe that's why they get shafted all the time. They are good at PvE, both short and long range. They are also good at short range PvP (Yes, there is other PvP than gatesniping and fleets) and they suck at long range PvP. So they are good at 75% of combat types. Maybe thats why they get shafted all the time. --------- Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.27 21:21:00 - [130] OMG NOO, missiles are different from turrets. Oh wait, weapon diversity is good!
Hey You	Posted - 2006.05.27 22:11:00 - [131] Edited by: Hey You on 27/05/2006 22:11:31 Oh, BTW, Raven's don't SUCK at Fleet PVP. They're just not most people's 1st choice, because of no instant-strike. Javelin Torps cover distance pretty fast. Also, most of the wrecking shots, if you look closely, tend to be on cans, or other unresisted things. Or are 1nce in a life-time occurances. (There is a glitch where wrecking shots, or just regular shots, dunno if it happens with missiles, do unforgiving amounts of damage, like a small gun doing 4.5k damage. But it's very rare.) I also like the complete denial of some of the posters here. Missiles are being nerfed, just because of all us turret-users whining. Even though we're pretty much the minority. Not because..No..Couldn't be...Dare I say it...They were ovepowered? ------------------------------
Breed Love	Posted - 2006.05.27 23:26:00 - [132] Originally by: Kery Nysell @Breed Love : can I have some of what you're smoking, please ? Sure m8, but it costs 1 bil ISK! ------ Originally by: Gazon In any case, the whole affair had one lasting effect: Awarding Stormriders the label of ridiculous drug addicts with a tendency towards utterly foolish actions.
Frezik	Posted - 2006.05.28 01:11:00 - [133] Originally by: Hey You Also, most of the wrecking shots, if you look closely, tend to be on cans, or other unresisted things. Or are 1nce in a life-time occurances. (There is a glitch where wrecking shots, or just regular shots, dunno if it happens with missiles, do unforgiving amounts of damage, like a small gun doing 4.5k damage. But it's very rare.) Wrecking shots happen a flat percentage of the time when you hit (1%, IIRC). Since cans are stationary, you're more likely to hit, and therefore see wreckings more often. You're not boosting your chances to wreck, just your chances to hit at all. In any case, wrecking shots should not even be a part of the argument of turrents vs. missiles. A Raven pilot complaining that missiles never get wrecking shots ignores the fact that missiles also never get 'lightly hits' or 'barely scratches'. ---- "Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth
Nybbas	Posted - 2006.05.28 01:25:00 - [134] Originally by: Frezik Originally by: Hey You Also, most of the wrecking shots, if you look closely, tend to be on cans, or other unresisted things. Or are 1nce in a life-time occurances. (There is a glitch where wrecking shots, or just regular shots, dunno if it happens with missiles, do unforgiving amounts of damage, like a small gun doing 4.5k damage. But it's very rare.) Wrecking shots happen a flat percentage of the time when you hit (1%, IIRC). Since cans are stationary, you're more likely to hit, and therefore see wreckings more often. You're not boosting your chances to wreck, just your chances to hit at all. In any case, wrecking shots should not even be a part of the argument of turrents vs. missiles. A Raven pilot complaining that missiles never get wrecking shots ignores the fact that missiles also never get 'lightly hits' or 'barely scratches'. Or "misses" (which happen much more often than wrecking shots
Nybbas	Posted - 2006.05.28 01:28:00 - [135] Originally by: Grey Area Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Grey Area Someone said precision missiles "undid the original nerf" by allowing big launchers to kill small targets. By that logic, if precision missiles were overpowered, then so are wrecking shots (and you don't have to pay a fortune for wrecking shots). Patently false. You can avoid wrecking shows by keeping your transversal high. There is NO WAY to avoid prescision messiles except an immediate warp. Hence the ENTIRELY justified nerf. Maya, is there a course you took to spout crap like this? You are saying that wrecking shots NEVER happen unless the opposing pilot is as dumb as a box of hair. I guess there must be a LOT of dumb pilots out there, given how many sigs and bios I see that contain the traditional "wrecking shot gloat". And to the previous poster who said missiles are "good at everything except sniping". Sorry, but missiles are only good against NPCs. As far as I'm concerned, that's ONE thing...and most people say that PVP is more important than PVE, so missiles are only good at the "less important" combat. Maybe that's why they get shafted all the time. well seeing how a torp raven beats a megathron 95% of the time (considering both pilots know what they are doing) does this mean blasterthrons are completely 100% useless because they are crap for npcing. Also have you bothered to look at tux's graph that shows torps do insignificantly less dps than the close range turret ships? or that when tracking is taken into consideration they actually do a decent amount more dps than the close range turret ships (save neutrons on a thron (like you can fit those) from 5-8km... sure the transverse was a bit high on that graph, but even halfing it, torps are still ridiculously better seieng how they can hit out to 60km and fitting javelin torps takes away any consideration of "flight time" (jav torp raven, or even a normal torp raven WILL kill a 425mm sniperthron 100% of the time)
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2006.05.28 01:43:00 - [136] Originally by: Maya Rkell OMG NOO, missiles are different from turrets. Oh wait, weapon diversity is good! Um, yes it is, because without it combat strategy gets bland and tiresome. Or wait, you were being serious? Hard to tell with you. Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com
Arbenowskee	Posted - 2006.05.28 08:45:00 - [137] Whine whine whine. i need some cheese with all this whine. Anyway, let's get to the point. The thing that bothers me is people not telling the truth. Guns need more SP that missiles? Ok, let's check this statement only by comparing the neutral skills that need to be trained. By neutral, i mean skills that affect all guns/missiles. Guns: Controlled burst (rank 2) Gunnery (rank 1) Motion Prediction (rank 2) Rapid Firing (rank 2) Sharpshooter (rank 2) Surgical Strike (rank 4) Trajectory Analysis (rank 5) Each rank means 256k SP. so that 4,6 mil SP to get these maxed. Now let's check missiles: Guided missile precision (rank 5) Missile Bombardment (rank 2) Missile Launcher Operation (rank 1) Missile Projection (rank 4) Rapid Launch (rank 2) Target Navigation prediction (rank 2) Warhead Upgrades (rank 5) This means 5,3 mil SP to get this skill maxed. The problem is, that most of u count weapon upgrades (512k SP) and adv. weapon upgrades (1,28 mil SP) as a gunnery skill. But it benefits both, missile and gun users. So that's where all those "guns need more SP than missiles" whines come from. But i still think that this is balanced. why? Missiles come in 5 sizes each can be trained seperatly from others and there are "only" 5 specilization skills. Guns come in 3 sizes, but in order to train for larger version u need to train smaller version. Each size also comes in short and long range version so that means 6 specializations. Again, balance if u ask me. Why? Again, missiles need more SP to train all sizes, than guns (except if u want all specs @ lvl 5). want proof? Guns: Small (rank 1) Medium (rank 3) Large (rank 5) That's 2,3 mil SP to get these maxed. Missiles: Rockets (rank 1) Standar missiles (rank 2) Heavy missiles (rank 3) Torpedoes (rank 4) Cruise missiles (rank 5) That's 3,8 mil SP to get these maxed. (not counting FOF and defenders). So the only area that guns need more SP is specialization and only by a good million SP: Guns: 2x Small specialization (rank 3) 2x Medium specialization (rank 5) 2x Large specialization (rank 8) that's 8,2 mil SP. Missiles: Rocket specialization (rank 3) Standard missiles Specialization (rank 3) Heavy missiles Specialzation (rank 5) Torpedo Specialization (rank 8) Cruise missile Specialization (rank 8) 6,9 mio SP. Happy now? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sig too large. Maximum size 400x120 and 24000 bytes. -Oiri Yusko
Ricdic	Posted - 2006.05.28 11:08:00 - [138] I must admit, when the first missile overhaul came out, I was quite dissapointed. But I lived with it and found it wasnt so bad. When the drone overhaul came out, I realised that my adaptation had been compromised once more, and I needed to train 2 million sp in drones in order to get back to where I initially was again. I was a little annoyed, but adapted by getting the drone skills up, using a target painter, and getting into t2 drones. Now, I am finally where I am happy. Missiles aren't an IWIN for everyone any more (exception of the precision cruise being fixed) and I find a lot less younger players flying Ravens. While I still fly one, and have flown one for years, I will never go near our new Tier 3 battleship, regardless of whether it is better or not (shields etc). I hate how everyone categorises Raven users as noobs etc. The Raven is a great ship if you have the skills to fly it well, the brains to fit it right, and the balls to fly it without WCS. However, while it was once overpowered, with the exception of the precision cruise, I personally believe it is in a balanced position at this time. While I havent flown a standard raven in around a year (read, 3 billion isk setup), I see their potential with my own and accept it as strong. Excepting the precision cruise nerf, I do not want to see missiles screwed with too much more. It is quite annoying having to switch my skill queues every time a big overhaul comes out (Read drones/missiles). Personally, I never actually tried the precision cruise missiles. I find cruise boring, and am happy to stick with my Javelin Torps. Nor have I tried Rage Torps, so I cannot comment on their balance. Javelin Torps seem quite balanced considering the cost in both skills and isk, and they dont affect any higher damage (except slightly higher on smaller ships). Finally, dont categorise missiles as all IWIN buttons. I have a Thorn Javelin Rocket (read. Kinetic) BPO and I could barely sell these rockets at a similar price to T1. If my goods were to always sell, I would make around 700k a day off running the bpo 24/7 in the factory. Due to their heavy speed penalty these rockets are completely useless for the ships they were designed for (read: fast interceptors/frigs), and I hope that while nerfs are being placed on certain types, that boosts are made on others. So no, I dont agree with the op and I am a heavily Caldari Missile boat only pilot. ------------------------------------------ Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB) http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html
Ricdic	Posted - 2006.05.28 11:13:00 - [139] Edited by: Ricdic on 28/05/2006 11:13:12 Originally by: Arbenowskee Happy now? I think it all balances out closely in the end. Turret users have to train spec skills right up in each category to access t2 in their chosen large weapon field Missile users only have to train the category they want t2 in, in order to access their chosen large weapon field this is a definete benefit to caldari, however I am not complaining. ------------------------------------------ Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB) http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html
Grey Area	Posted - 2006.05.28 23:42:00 - [140] Originally by: Maya Rkell And yes...wrecking shots. How do you know it's not on an interceptor which messed up and got double-webbed and target painted, for example? EVERY time? Anyways - my main issue with the precision missile nerf is that it looks like it is going to be rapidly followed by a defender missile boost (or at least, some defence against missiles that is more effective). So then you will HAVE your "reasonable ways to avoid being hit by missiles", AND on top of that the ones that do hit won't be effective. Joy. Because if this thread proves one thing it's that old nerfs don't get undone when new nerfs come along. Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.05.28 23:52:00 - [141] What "every time"? You were talking about a wrecking hit reference in a bio, and they're 1% of hits. Not THAT rare. And I'm against fixing defenders. For their removal, actually. And WHAT old nerfs? Oh, the missile REBALANCE.
Grey Area	Posted - 2006.05.29 21:56:00 - [142] Edited by: Grey Area on 29/05/2006 21:56:49 Originally by: Maya Rkell What "every time"? You were talking about a wrecking hit reference in a bio, and they're 1% of hits. Not THAT rare. What I meant was, it would seem you would have us believe that all wrecking shots recorded are the fault of the target, which I very much doubt. Originally by: Maya Rkell And I'm against fixing defenders. For their removal, actually. Careful Maya, that sounds suspiciously like common sense... Originally by: Maya Rkell And WHAT old nerfs? Oh, the missile REBALANCE. Ah, back to nonsense again, how refreshing. I was of course referring to the mass increase - a nerf applied to counteract the original overpowered state of missiles, which was never undone or even modified when missiles were made considerably less effective (by which I mean a single torpedo is no longer sufficient to kill a frigate). Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
boost lasers	Posted - 2006.05.29 22:08:00 - [143] Hey numpty. If you can't hit a target you can't get a wrecking on it. Wreckings don't just pop up like the tooth fairy, you have to be able to HIT something first. ____________________________________________________ __
madaluap	Posted - 2006.05.29 22:16:00 - [144] Originally by: SevenDwarfs Edited by: SevenDwarfs on 25/05/2006 03:51:29 But back when EVE first started they were very nice both in PVP and in missions. Now i know that you are just a whiner, you know that when eve started missiles were made by batches of 10 instead of 100. LOL yeh you pounded away 250.000 isk missiles @ a 1 mil bs in 0.0. _________________________________________________
Rockbox	Posted - 2006.05.29 22:18:00 - [145] Waaa im caldari and my missles were made uber by RMR when they released Precision Cruise my Raven could quickly destroy a whole squad of small and manouverable cruisers waaa now I can still do the same but to a lesser effect Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥

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