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Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
11
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Posted - 2011.11.16 06:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you had a small gang (2 to 4) of low SP, inexperienced pilots capable of flying T1 only hulls BC or smaller and they have to tackle and kill a random L4 missioner in his mission space, what would your fleet composition be, and why? Assume any BC will be T1 fitted, and limited T2 mods on cruisers and below. Also assume that the priorities are the quick, simple (noobproof w/maybe one experienced FC), and safe destruction of the missioner's ship, in that order. Bonus points if you can throw in a blackbird.
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David Clausewitz
The Spawning Pool
Team Liquid
2
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Posted - 2011.11.16 06:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Drakes. |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
Laika.
33
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Posted - 2011.11.16 07:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
1 x Hurricane or Brutix for DPS
2 x Arbitrators fitted for neuting
1 x Blackbird with racial jammers
Point, Neut have the mission rats deal the damage together with your dps ship. Blackbird is the finishing touch to ensure missioner doesn't get a shot off.
Question should be how are you all going to get agro from the mission runner if in high sec?
If low sec disregard the question I posed ;) |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
29
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Posted - 2011.11.16 07:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
l0l drakes. go away coward
If you're going to gank a mission runner, he is going to be fit with a low buffer and an active tank. That means you can go in with a high dps close range ship like a Gallente blaster boat (thorax or brutix) and overwhelm him or you can go with dual neuting Hurricanes and (eventually) shut off his tank. |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 07:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dilligafmofo wrote:1 x Hurricane or Brutix for DPS
2 x Arbitrators fitted for neuting
1 x Blackbird with racial jammers
Point, Neut have the mission rats deal the damage together with your dps ship. Blackbird is the finishing touch to ensure missioner doesn't get a shot off.
Question should be how are you all going to get agro from the mission runner if in high sec?
If low sec disregard the question I posed ;)
Thank you for the responses. The fit above is along the lines of what I was thinking. Neuts for the active tank. DPS. Jams for any unexpected turn of events. If the BB can land at 100km, I don't see much hope for the mission ship, even if it's bait.
The plan is simply to ninja loot their wrecks with something innocent looking and hope for the best. |
Keyboardz
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 08:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
You should all fly this
Quote:[Vigil, The Mighty Battlevigil]
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Shield Extender II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
Salvager II
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II |
Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
63
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 11:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:If you had a small gang (2 to 4) of low SP, inexperienced pilots capable of flying T1 only hulls BC or smaller and they have to tackle and kill a random L4 missioner in his mission space, what would your fleet composition be, and why? Assume any BC will be T1 fitted, and limited T2 mods on cruisers and below. Also assume that the priorities are the quick, simple (noobproof w/maybe one experienced FC), and safe destruction of the missioner's ship, in that order. Bonus points if you can throw in a blackbird.
If your target a faction BS, then 5 of the new BC probably are a minimum. Maybe 4 if said faction BS is armortanking and the shield has already been stripped by NPCs. And if you use some of their weapon slots for neuts, you might need one more. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
355
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 14:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Except for the suddenly ninjas guy, it's clear none of you are seeing the problem here; being able to shoot the target.
For this to happen, he has to aggress each and every one of you. The chance of this happening past the first ship .. pretty damn small. If it does, he is both a ****** and a noob, so a T1 cruiser will do the job.
Take an armour cane, with neuts, DPS, and a cap booster. If you really must, throw in a Rep domi to keep it up. The rep domi can apply DPS if the MR also aggroes it.
If you need more than one ship to take out an active tanking mission runner, you're doing it wrong.
If you are all very low skilled (you don't mention any racial types flown) then you can use a Brutix for DPS, and stick the other toons in an Exequror for reps, and a Augoror to keep it capped up long enough. Yes, both ships see little to no use, which is part of why it is fun :)
Paper thin T1 logi is good bait for the MR to shoot. If the MR aggresses either logistic ship, reship into more DPS and pile on.
-
"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
123
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 15:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
We've been doing this for over 2 years now. Best practice so far is as follows:
1) Bait with Merlin, Jag, Worm, Vigil or Hookbill.
2) Mission Bear shoots you and you then web and kill his drones.
3) Corpmates arrive with any sort of Logi, drawing aggro themselves about 1 time out of 3.
4) Kill ship is delivered to you as you hold the hapless mission bear with your full tackle ninja frigate. This can be accomplished via an Orca or simply having an Alt or whoever bring in the kill ship.
5) Swap ship, ransom then PWN.
Best kill ship to throw out of an Orca is a standard plated Cane w/ 2 medium neuts. If you plan on having one of your mates deliver a ship to you, it would be hard to beat a Torp Phoon.
@ OP,
If you want first hand guidance from experienced pilots, we're currently recruiting and can get you in the business of killing Mission Bears in very short order. X up.
Recruiting is OPEN
Please join our public channel The Ninja Dojo for more info |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 17:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Solomar Espersei wrote:We've been doing this for over 2 years now. Best practice so far is as follows:
1) Bait with Merlin, Jag, Worm, Vigil or Hookbill.
2) Mission Bear shoots you and you then web and kill his drones.
3) Corpmates arrive with any sort of Logi, drawing aggro themselves about 1 time out of 3.
4) Kill ship is delivered to you as you hold the hapless mission bear with your full tackle ninja frigate. This can be accomplished via an Orca or simply having an Alt or whoever bring in the kill ship.
5) Swap ship, ransom then PWN.
Best kill ship to throw out of an Orca is a standard plated Cane w/ 2 medium neuts. If you plan on having one of your mates deliver a ship to you, it would be hard to beat a Torp Phoon.
@ OP,
If you want first hand guidance from experienced pilots, we're currently recruiting and can get you in the business of killing Mission Bears in very short order. X up.
Thank you. Think I'll do just that and take the plunge. |
Sivor Detmen
Pure Evil Warriors
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 18:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Solomar Espersei wrote:We've been doing this for over 2 years now. Best practice so far is as follows:
1) Bait with Merlin, Jag, Worm, Vigil or Hookbill.
2) Mission Bear shoots you and you then web and kill his drones.
3) Corpmates arrive with any sort of Logi, drawing aggro themselves about 1 time out of 3.
4) Kill ship is delivered to you as you hold the hapless mission bear with your full tackle ninja frigate. This can be accomplished via an Orca or simply having an Alt or whoever bring in the kill ship.
5) Swap ship, ransom then PWN.
Best kill ship to throw out of an Orca is a standard plated Cane w/ 2 medium neuts. If you plan on having one of your mates deliver a ship to you, it would be hard to beat a Torp Phoon.
@ OP,
If you want first hand guidance from experienced pilots, we're currently recruiting and can get you in the business of killing Mission Bears in very short order. X up.
Was expecting more from you guys.
I use an ishkur.
Cruor works perfectly as well same with fed navy comet, daredevil and worm.
If you can't kill 95% of the mission runners that are stupid enough to aggress you with any of these ships you are doing wrong.
If you find one belonging to the 5% bring a kill ship with an alt or call for a friend with some rr to get aggro. Don't let your friend bring anything bigger than a frigate because the mission runner may get scared and won't aggress your friend. Also make your best to appear that you are breaking and the only thing saving you is your friend repping you.
To increase the chances of getting a kill do it in packs and make sure everyship frigate has a rr mod or an logi drone to get aggro.
If you are lucky sometimes you will find guys like these
[url] http://www.devilswarrior.info/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=2983 [/url] |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity
Narwhals Ate My Duck
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 02:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Canes, by far.
fit 2 neuts on each of them and no mission ship will be able to tank. |
Desudes
Federal Defence Union
Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 03:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
4 Blaster Thoraxes with medium ECM drones :D
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu? |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 05:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Solomar Espersei wrote:
4) Kill ship is delivered to you as you hold the hapless mission bear with your full tackle ninja frigate. This can be accomplished via an Orca or simply having an Alt or whoever bring in the kill ship.
5) Swap ship, ransom then PWN.
Quick question... How can you swap to the kill ship and still maintain point on the mission bear?
Also, now that I'm clear on aggro mechanics, is it possible to kill a L4 mission ship with just a destroyer for tackle & DPS w/one logi cruiser for support? |
JackStraw56
Bayesian Motion
Knights of Tomorrow
25
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 08:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Canes, by far.
fit 2 neuts on each of them and no mission ship will be able to tank.
This is the answer. Neuting canes will not be killed by a mission fit. |
SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
214
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 09:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
A solo Pilgrim would work against every turret ship.
What's even better is that you can bait with your ninjafrigate, and keep your pilgrim cloacked (If you don't get decloacked by something). |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
39
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 15:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Or you could just join Faction Warfare, stop griffing players that don't want to pvp, grow balls and fight someone looking to kill you instead.
Unless of course, this is too much for you. In Fw Skill points are not so much of an problem. An unwillingness to lose a ship however.
Not trying to be rude, but having to trick dumbass mission runners into pvp is not a good fight, sure mission runners are insanely stupid and have overpriced boats, but High sec is not a good place for pvp.
Jump into 3 BCs and some tackle hit low and get a fight.
|
Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
149
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 15:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Or you could just join Faction Warfare, stop griffing players that don't want to pvp, grow balls and fight someone looking to kill you instead.
Unless of course, this is too much for you. In Fw Skill points are not so much of an problem. An unwillingness to lose a ship however.
Not trying to be rude, but having to trick dumbass mission runners into pvp is not a good fight, sure mission runners are insanely stupid and have overpriced boats, but High sec is not a good place for pvp.
Jump into 3 BCs and some tackle hit low and get a fight.
Get out of this thread and stop trying to tell other people how to play. |
Sage Revinour
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 16:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Or you could just join Faction Warfare, stop griffing players that don't want to pvp, grow balls and fight someone looking to kill you instead.
Unless of course, this is too much for you. In Fw Skill points are not so much of an problem. An unwillingness to lose a ship however.
Not trying to be rude, but having to trick dumbass mission runners into pvp is not a good fight, sure mission runners are insanely stupid and have overpriced boats, but High sec is not a good place for pvp.
Jump into 3 BCs and some tackle hit low and get a fight.
QFT. Only a loser mugs little old women for their social security checks. |
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Loud On The Forums Silent In Game
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 18:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sage Revinour wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:Or you could just join Faction Warfare, stop griffing players that don't want to pvp, grow balls and fight someone looking to kill you instead.
Unless of course, this is too much for you. In Fw Skill points are not so much of an problem. An unwillingness to lose a ship however.
Not trying to be rude, but having to trick dumbass mission runners into pvp is not a good fight, sure mission runners are insanely stupid and have overpriced boats, but High sec is not a good place for pvp.
Jump into 3 BCs and some tackle hit low and get a fight.
QFT. Only a loser mugs little old women for their social security checks.
Shouldn't you be using your ignorance on Eve related matters elsewhere? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
61
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 19:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Is this a legal target, or are you suicide ganking them??
I kind of had the impression you were suicide ganking them, which complicates things enormously. If that's the case, please state so, as the fits that will work are very different.
If you can attack them legally, 1 BB and 3 425 autocannon, dual neut shield canes will give them a very bad day. Canes allow you to use the most appropriate damage type (since they will probably be tanked for the rates), put out significant dps (especially with damage mods in the lows), are fast, and their neuts will give the target a very hard time. The BB makes it so they can't fire back, meaning the canes can focus on gank, with little need for a tank.
If you are suicide ganking them, then you need to have a setup where all ships can open fire simultaneously, and bring down the target within 10-20 seconds. Brutixes are a favorite because of their extremely high dps, but be weary of serpentis or guerista mission runners. Realistically, to get 4 ships on top of the enemy and bring it down, you need them to be sitting still where you can warp in on top of them. I would imagine 4 BC's (Canes, Brutix, Harby, or Drake) would do a decent job, and the best ships to use depends on your target's tank. |
Sebero Sinak
Eve Pilots Revolutionary Army
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 19:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:If you had a small gang (2 to 4) of low SP, inexperienced pilots capable of flying T1 only hulls BC or smaller and they have to tackle and kill a random L4 missioner in his mission space, what would your fleet composition be, and why? Assume any BC will be T1 fitted, and limited T2 mods on cruisers and below. Also assume that the priorities are the quick, simple (noobproof w/maybe one experienced FC), and safe destruction of the missioner's ship, in that order. Bonus points if you can throw in a blackbird.
How about you grow some balls instead of looking for a easy kill - nullsec is full of pilots that can kill you yet if you really want to do something for yourself and Eve you could go work on killing the meta-alliances. use the lump above your shoulders, go make it uncomfortable for alliances to hold massive territories with no one in them.
Two man gang that can drop a bubble can wait on their lesser pipes for their pilots that get lazy - make it so they actually have to control their holdings.Annoy the hell out of them, make it so they aren't all comfy.
BTW - use PI in null or wh and PI will buy you an assualt frigate a day to throw away. |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
22
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 20:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:Or you could just join Faction Warfare, stop griffing players that don't want to pvp, grow balls and fight someone looking to kill you instead.
Unless of course, this is too much for you. In Fw Skill points are not so much of an problem. An unwillingness to lose a ship however.
Not trying to be rude, but having to trick dumbass mission runners into pvp is not a good fight, sure mission runners are insanely stupid and have overpriced boats, but High sec is not a good place for pvp.
Jump into 3 BCs and some tackle hit low and get a fight.
Get out of this thread and stop trying to tell other people how to play.
Apussysayswhat? |
Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
124
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 21:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sivor Detmen wrote:
Was expecting more from you guys.
Yeah, well your post is spot on. High quality, high DPS frigs and such will work just fine as you point out. I was simply giving the OP the best recipe for getting his gang involved. Nice kills BTW.
Recruiting is OPEN
Please join our public channel The Ninja Dojo for more info |
Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
124
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 21:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
JackStraw56 wrote: Neuting canes will not be killed by a mission fit.
For the most part yeah, but the really blingy ships will often be able to spew considerable amounts of DPS on you and then it becomes a DPS race. Face it, the plated Cane is a big fat pig and missile boats can put a hurt on it. Not saying you're wrong, just adding a point of clarity.
Recruiting is OPEN
Please join our public channel The Ninja Dojo for more info |
Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
149
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 00:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dynast wrote:Roosterton wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:Or you could just join Faction Warfare, stop griffing players that don't want to pvp, grow balls and fight someone looking to kill you instead.
Unless of course, this is too much for you. In Fw Skill points are not so much of an problem. An unwillingness to lose a ship however.
Not trying to be rude, but having to trick dumbass mission runners into pvp is not a good fight, sure mission runners are insanely stupid and have overpriced boats, but High sec is not a good place for pvp.
Jump into 3 BCs and some tackle hit low and get a fight.
Get out of this thread and stop trying to tell other people how to play. Hah.. why? What are you going to do, cry at us from high-sec? Maybe wardec and camp Jita 4-4?
I could report your posts for being off-topic / non-constructive, as they don't attempt to answer the question posed by the OP. I could also report him for trolling, as it blatantly serves no purpose other than to aggrevate people.
This is more fun, though. And please, do your research; I've been living in low/null for the last few months.
|
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 00:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
@Gizznitt - Sorry for the confusion before. I was under the impression that since stealing from a can granted aggro to the "victim's" entire corp, that it worked the same way when a corpie shot at someone for flipping their can. I was going to recruit a bunch of noob probing pilots/ninja salvagers for best bait and roll in to finish off missioners who attack them. But I was wrong. Only the one shot at, and not his corpies, get kill rights. :( So I am trying my best to figure out the best way for a 2-ship gang to collect high-sec missioner KMs.
So now my focus has changed to match the actual game mechanics. The question then becomes how to best kill high-sec L4 mission runners with 1 or 2 pilots. And I love the ideas I'm getting here.
@Solomar - Thanks for the continued input. Suddenly Ninjas is definitely an authority on this subject.
@Sivor - Very VERY nice kb and great tactics. I think we're going to give it a shot. Thank you very much for sharing.
@Confused carebear questions:
Why target high-sec missioning ships instead of experienced, prepared, trained, rich, organized groups? Because I am not experienced, trained, rich, nor part of a group. Frankly I am a lot more evenly matched against lone L4 missioners as an opponent than against mobs of bitter vets.
Why ninja loot baiting? A couple reasons. 1) When I was only weeks into the game I did some ninja salvage. Of course since then I've also run L4 missions. So I understand some of the mechanics involved already, and am building on that base. Also, they blew me up a few times for looting, which both confirms that they'll fall for good bait and provides a tad of of moral justification for my plans. 2) It allows me to control the variables involved, making it possible even with my limited experience and pvp knowledge.
Why not go to low sec or 0.0? I will eventually. I need to learn the particulars of every single possible pvp ship, not to mention their various combinations. If I joined a pvp corp at this point I'd end up relying on an FC to walk me through complex combat scenarios with many fast-changing variables. Meh. I'd rather play the game, have fun, and learn these things gradually rather than cram the data like it's for a final exam.
Why not join faction warfare? A couple reasons. 1) I heard it was very broken. 2) For now I want to work alone or with a couple partners at most.
tl;dr Why pick on lone carebear missioners? Cause I'm mostly a lone carebear missioner (with a buddy who also plays sometimes). I'll kill my peers until it gets boring. Do I really need to mention that if this upsets you, I truly don't care? |
Sebero Sinak
Eve Pilots Revolutionary Army
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 01:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
When i first learned how to use combat probes i also tried ninja salvaging and stealing the mission item. It is a dismal isk return pursuit. If you see someone ninja salvaging dismiss them as an idiot and ignore them. Whatever loot they can get from your wrecks doesn't add up to useful pursuits in Eve. Just ignore them.
you say you don't know the ropes yet and don't want to pit yourself against bitter vets. We live in a wormhole class 1 with the only exit to nullsec. We make our isk doing sleeper encounters in battlecruisers and doing PI - it is very good isk.
As soon as we make our isk we jump out of our wormhole and screw with the biggest nullsec alliance within reach. You don't have to be all powerful - we will teach you how to stay alive and our little operation can damn sure use help if you would be interested in such a thing. |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 03:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sebero Sinak wrote: When i first learned how to use combat probes i also tried ninja salvaging and stealing the mission item. It is a dismal isk return pursuit. If you see someone ninja salvaging dismiss them as an idiot and ignore them. Whatever loot they can get from your wrecks doesn't add up to useful pursuits in Eve. Just ignore them.
you say you don't know the ropes yet and don't want to pit yourself against bitter vets. We live in a wormhole class 1 with the only exit to nullsec. We make our isk doing sleeper encounters in battlecruisers and doing PI - it is very good isk.
As soon as we make our isk we jump out of our wormhole and screw with the biggest nullsec alliance within reach. You don't have to be all powerful - we will teach you how to stay alive and our little operation can damn sure use help if you would be interested in such a thing.
I don't want to live in a hole. I don't want to do PI. I don't want to feel obligated to do ops on someone else's schedule. Some day, when I run out of fun things I can do solo I may try joining a corp.
I just want to play the game at my own pace, at my own skill level, and learn as I go. |
JackStraw56
Bayesian Motion
Knights of Tomorrow
25
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 10:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Solomar Espersei wrote:JackStraw56 wrote: Neuting canes will not be killed by a mission fit. For the most part yeah, but the really blingy ships will often be able to spew considerable amounts of DPS on you and then it becomes a DPS race. Face it, the plated Cane is a big fat pig and missile boats can put a hurt on it. Not saying you're wrong, just adding a point of clarity.
I could see that, don't know what I would rather field though, especially as OP mentions a fleet. |
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