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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.27 00:17:00 -
[31]
Again don't dwell on the stats. I said several times over my stats were crap and a work in progress. I rather resent an pre-nerfed idea otherwise everyone would ignore it as being overpowered. Giving them too much cargo room would be a bad idea. They are to mine and in the case of the bigger size also refine. They are not to carry your ore or minerals home. That is the job of the haulers and always should be.
Now why did I use carriers as an example. The main reason is that carriers have two extremely distinct sizes of ship and larger of the two has capabilities the smaller one doesn't It also has drawbacks like not being able to dock that also is applies to the caopitol mining ships. No the capitol mining ships are not carriers but since people know about carriers and they are the closest thing to compare to these why ignore that fact. I wanted a cheaper strait forward model and a much more expensive model that had added features for the class. Carriers are the only other example of this.
 Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
To be honest I dont belive these ships would be used with your stats.
Just because its a capital miner does not mean it should be gimped. Just look at dreadnoughts they are good for what their role is, so it only make sense that capital miners are good in what they are suppose to do, and that is mining.
To be a successfull mining ship you need large cargobay, maybe a corp hangar too for deep space operation. Maybe see the capital miner as a independent station or outpost, it can perform 30 jumps from any station as its almost a station itself, a mining station that is.
It should be able to mine like 5 Covetors at low skills, and get bonus to mining yield and mining links. Of course these ships will also be have mobile refineries and they should also be able to jump with their cargohold filled with minerals. Else there is no point in giving them jumpdrives.
And to use the Carrier and Mothership scheme to balance new capital miners, well that idea does not fitt at all!
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Tervaga
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Posted - 2006.05.27 00:30:00 -
[32]
The idea of the "moon-raker" capital ship is probably the best of the ones I've seen around. Considering it's not a mega-buffed roid whoring machine. The only problem? That moons aren't great for mining. The solution? Make moons worth the trouble, maybe. The idea is basically that they're like a mobile moon-mining platform as opposed to the current stationary ones. Probably less powerful than the stationary platforms, but better for the riskier areas where possible loss makes building a station a bad option. The incentive to both could still remain.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=340682
And when other things become accessible for mining in the future, assuming there'll be a new range of sites for both regular mining ships/barges to access AND stations to access in the future, this class of ship could become even more ideal/useful.
Plus, to be honest, most of the other ideas just seem to compound on the entire point of it taking time to reap the rewards of belt mining (and I'm not just talking about the time it takes to mine). On-site refining could be doable, but also could make it too easy for those not willing to put the time/effort into the logistics required. Maybe if a miner was stuck anchored for the time it took to refine (yes I said time, it probably shouldn't be instant if it's going to be on-site) then it'd be more managable.
There don't necessarily need to be a large size and a small size either...I mean there's only one size of dreadnaught.
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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:11:00 -
[33]
The reason for creating all new capitol level mining lasers so they could be balanced seperate from smaller strip miners if needed and the fact I didn't want it to be able to do deep core mining. I feel the smaller barges should still have that over the bigger ships.
They do use jump drives for the very reason to keep them out of hi sec and to not be used by macro miner farmers. The balance with the cargo hold is one of the hardest things. That is also somewhat of the reason I created special cargo containers that had limited use.
Originally by: mr passie
Here's a thought,
skip the whole captital mining laser but instead give the ship a bonus to existing strip miner range and let it fit 1 or 2 more. It should be a platform for other gang members, not be too overpowered in itself.
Fit it with an expensive to fuel jumpdrive, that way it cannot go into high sec and pervents it from being a complete mineral/ore carrier.
Tricky thing would be it's cargo hold, if it's small it's pretty useless, but when it gets too large, it will become a jump capable freighter.
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Aakron
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:31:00 -
[34]
I think it would be a good idea, it would be nice to have ships tailored to everybodys needs. If the ship could jump to a system carrying all the barges then deploy itself and refine the minerals and give bonuses and then jump back taking all the minerals and ships back that could be a useful support tool.
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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:37:00 -
[35]
Well as most other fields have capitol ships why not mining ships? It seems silly to have a capitol level mining ship that it itself can't mine. That is like having a freighter that can't carry anything but gives indies a bonus. Why would more than one hauler character in the group train for one if that is the case? These ships do make it easier to mine as they do fit mining foremen links and the biggest one even helps the haulers by providing them less m3 to carry home.
Originally by: Olirtad Fiven
a capital miner imo is not such a great idea.
I'd rather like to see a capital ship(with same restrictions) that makes it easier for others to mine. By giving bonuses to yield or mining laser duration perhaps? As well as ability to use gang links(maybe also a bonus to mining foreman links? after they're fixed  )
Could include a refinery(maybe have one wastefull fast one and one slower efficient one), perhaps even a factory. Could take it further and have laboratories available for these ships, I'm sure there are people who would love to be out in 0.0 like nomads or gypsies.
hmm capital harvester drones, I like 
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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:41:00 -
[36]
I left out crystals due to keep my numbers simple. I did plan on either changing the lasers and or drones to use crystals or making more advanced versions that use them. Think non crystal using gear as needing less logistics, as in not worry about manageing crystals and their costs, and the higher yield gear needing the crystals.
Originally by: Fogy
im not trying to hijack your thread or anything..
but i was having thoughts in the same area the other day aswell..
I was thinking about it having bonus'es towards barges/Exhumers/mining drones and other mining related stuff.
They should bouth have refinerys (the smaler class might have a less eficient one.)
Bay layout like a carrier, so they can transport mining barges
The main thought about the idea i had, was it would be like a mobile rafinery/mining op outpost thingie.. making a industrial corp able to more easily do mining operations away from stations, outposts, pos's etc.. the same way carriers and mothershipps work for fleet op's
I like the risk/reward thoughts you have, also the capitol mining drones/stripminers able to fitt crystals?)
I also think the jump fuel costs should be abit high, so they dotn gett used like Freightetrs with jumpdrives.
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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:54:00 -
[37]
Yeah I wanted to balance the space for ore and minerals for the refinery module to be large enough to be useful but small enough to force the pilot to actively run it without being afk. Also due to the ship being anchored and how much it costs I wouldn't want to be that pilot explaining to their corp or alliance why they lost the ship by being afk.
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
well, to avoid afk'age you could add two hangars to the miner. one ore hangar and one mineral hangar. ore hangar is 10k while mineral hangar is 50k? so whenever ore hangar is full you have to run your mobile refinery to placfe it in the mineral hangar?
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Comdrinker
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:56:00 -
[38]
Was thinking you might have a version that had a hold that was ore specific, but that its mining lasers couldn't fill, they would have to be filled by other barges or ships. Make it a 100,000m3 or something. Then as an added module have a Capital Tractor beem that would pull jetcans from the barges that have a huge range, like 100km. This would be a "put all your eggs in one basket" type mining, so if you lost it to rats or so forth. It would be a huge loss to the group, hence, defend the hell out of it. Just a thought.
Course, then i just realized that the ship itself could just jetcan and put into hold, but maybe there is a workaround. Perhaps say the owner of the can can't be the owner of the captial mining ship.
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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.27 01:59:00 -
[39]
Well dreads and carriers have been killed on deep 0.0 space while ratting so a mining ship could too. But you are right if the pilot and the alliance they are in is smart these ships will not go down to roaming gangs. But then again I don't feel small interceptor gangs should be able to take down capitol level ships easy. Larger heavy hitters should be needed for that or more than just a small gang of inties.
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
For me it looks like a alliance-only ship. Any such ship mining solo or with 1-2 BS cover in low sec will die to pirate gang in 10 min after jumping to belt. To ensure it's safety you will need quite a big gang so it forces big amount of ore mined to keep risk/reward in reasonable range.
On the other side: in deep (alliance) 0.0 you can mine solo in it (given you can tank rat spawns) because this space is mostly secure. Small interceptor gangs can't kill it fast enough until help arrives.
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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.27 02:06:00 -
[40]
When the capitol miner is refining it not only takes time but also consumes fuel. They can't move while refining either and can't stop the refine. The refine will also waste more than a fixed structure. Not to mention a fix structure like a Outpost isn't burning fuel to do the refine so you have added costs.
As for moon mining I don't want to step on one of the things POS do but if needed these ships could also get modules for mining other types of stuff like the gas clouds CCP has talked about. I really didn't want to make these ships roid vaccuums and also create a risk for using them, and extra logistics to run them that also included ongoing costs.
I do like the idea of more than one size. Does it need to be this way. No I agree it doesn't have to be but I do like the exmple CCP provided with the carriers.
Originally by: Tervaga
The idea of the "moon-raker" capital ship is probably the best of the ones I've seen around. Considering it's not a mega-buffed roid whoring machine. The only problem? That moons aren't great for mining. The solution? Make moons worth the trouble, maybe. The idea is basically that they're like a mobile moon-mining platform as opposed to the current stationary ones. Probably less powerful than the stationary platforms, but better for the riskier areas where possible loss makes building a station a bad option. The incentive to both could still remain.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=340682
And when other things become accessible for mining in the future, assuming there'll be a new range of sites for both regular mining ships/barges to access AND stations to access in the future, this class of ship could become even more ideal/useful.
Plus, to be honest, most of the other ideas just seem to compound on the entire point of it taking time to reap the rewards of belt mining (and I'm not just talking about the time it takes to mine). On-site refining could be doable, but also could make it too easy for those not willing to put the time/effort into the logistics required. Maybe if a miner was stuck anchored for the time it took to refine (yes I said time, it probably shouldn't be instant if it's going to be on-site) then it'd be more managable.
There don't necessarily need to be a large size and a small size either...I mean there's only one size of dreadnaught.
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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.27 02:09:00 -
[41]
I rather a supporting carrier take care of transporting the barges. I didn't want these ships to overlap with current capitol ships. Yes they would be the center of a mining op but would still require other supporting ships to make the whole op work and that includes getting all ships and mined "stuff" to and from the op.
Originally by: Aakron
I think it would be a good idea, it would be nice to have ships tailored to everybodys needs. If the ship could jump to a system carrying all the barges then deploy itself and refine the minerals and give bonuses and then jump back taking all the minerals and ships back that could be a useful support tool.
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Bob Niac
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Posted - 2006.05.27 04:08:00 -
[42]
tbh i would love a dreadnaught sized barge that would in fact have to use cynos to get around (thus somewhat limiting where it could go
also i would think it would be neat to use a modified doomsday targeting sytem to mine; thus mining all ore in a limited range (Over time of course.) in a radial pattern activated on a cyno within line of sight.
=========
this would require several things:
(1) a new mining crystal technology
(2) said (mega) crystals
(3) strontium caths (or other non racial ice components)
(4) being unable to move
(5) a stable cyno for the duration of the cycle
=========
yes this may semm like it would umm .. demolish belts, but dont worry i considered that
first, the radial effect from the cyno is only taking 1/5 of the size of the belt. Also the crystals used to focus the beam/AOE limits it to 1 type of ore
Furthermore the "Rad" Miner consumes top teir ice components at a steady rate. This would be very expensive to do unless:
A) skills are maxed and
B) mass mining is your goal
Then there is the fact everything is line of sight.
Not to mention the restriction of not moving.
ALso i want tis thing to have to taget something.. something expensive, like a cyno, but i digress
um this thing would NOT have much cargo, infact it has barely enough for 1 "pulse" (pulses are 3 minute intervals; 5 pulses should equal one "cycle;" one cycle is basically a jetcan) so some 6k in cargo.
im also thinking it could fit a modded seige mod taht would only be for defensive purposes
um i would think that, even though this would be a large dread, it would have to defend itself, so an extensive drone bay would be nessacery; maybe even a fighter or 3
hmm ... i would also LOVE to see it not be able to dock at npc stations.. this would somewhat limit it to low(er) sec
of course it cant use gates, its a dread.....
ORE Dreadnaughts FTW
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Yarr! Pirate Learning Skills! |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.05.27 04:44:00 -
[43]
What's wrong here, can't you type "capital" 
Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs |
Bob Niac
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Posted - 2006.05.27 04:48:00 -
[44]
also:
Its not capitol ships iirc.
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Yarr! Pirate Learning Skills! |
Mr Breakfast
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Posted - 2006.05.27 04:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: KilROCK
What's wrong here, can't you type "capital"
lol trollsauce
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Harris
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Posted - 2006.05.27 09:57:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
well, to avoid afk'age you could add two hangars to the miner. one ore hangar and one mineral hangar. ore hangar is 10k while mineral hangar is 50k? so whenever ore hangar is full you have to run your mobile refinery to placfe it in the mineral hangar?
That's the thing, it isn't just afk mining that is a potential source of abuse with things like this, it's macro miners, and making a macro to take care of moving stuff to another hangar isn't all that hard (apparantly)
The concept is awesome though (ore-some??  ). All the suggestions you're putting into ward off it being overpowered are good and more importantly, viable.
The next stage is some sort of mobile refinary for miners but the balance side of things has to be very carefully thought through.
For now, I would be happy with a mining vessel that can make use of gang links so that miners can be mining directors themselves.
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Kunming
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Posted - 2006.05.27 10:18:00 -
[47]
Interesting and well thought ideas, I hope a dev takes notice.
Btw just make them use jumpdrives instead of stargates and you have all the problem with high-sec is solved.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.05.27 11:11:00 -
[48]
well i dont think that fuel is the way to go.. unless capital miners has a "miner siege module" 50000% to mining yield, duration and range.
"We brake for nobody"
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Ginaz
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Posted - 2006.05.27 11:22:00 -
[49]
You want this for mining? 
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Skiving Larry
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Posted - 2006.05.27 11:39:00 -
[50]
A capital ship for mining industry ops sounds could be OK but having it doing the actual mining would suck imo.
Having it as a mobile refinery, factory and giving mining bounuses would be more the sort of thing however I think indusrial modules for capital ships are already planned so that may cover it.
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Glarion Garnier
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Posted - 2006.05.27 12:08:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 27/05/2006 12:16:10
ORE after loosing lot's of it's space to Serpentis threat decided to license it's technology secrets to the Four empires of EVE. And so it came that all empires where interested and bought a license to Ore technology.
After that it was commonly known by opposing espionage sections of each empire that eveyone was designing what ORE tehcnology made and easy path to fullfill. Ship that Ore them selves could not design. Building on capital ship priciples to form a structure for integration of the superior strip mining technology. And so each Empire was developing what was to be the ultimate resource gathering platforms in existance.
For the suprise of many Financial corps. in the Galaxy Minmatar was the first to accomplish a working model.
based on the new minmatr structure designs as their Tier 2 Battlescruisers Minmater Institute of Science presents:
the Soul a capital class stripmining platform
Whith the power of 6 strip miner hardpoints and cargo bay of 15 K m3
6 high slots, 5 med slots , 4 low slots,
200m3 drone space
5500 shield / 5000 armor / 30 K hull
no -jump ability. -
But so it happened that Ore had sold similiar integration technolgy. All Empires developed a 6 strip miner version based on their own techonological philosophies. Amarr fitting them with tungsten armor, Gallente wtih crystaline armor and Caldari fitting powerfull shield generators around the the titanium carbide armor they are known for.
So In order to sanction the use of such ships in private hands the empires limited their use to low sec and 0.0 space only.
Some alnalyst say that the skills for piloting these behemoths require a fortune and the best quality Implants to get the skills trained properly.
Scope reports:
As a result Amarr corporation Inherent Implants stock value went up 15%.
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Jaydyn
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Posted - 2006.05.28 01:36:00 -
[52]
That is somewhat of the idea I am going for. The bonus and fuel use can be balanced as needed.
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
well i dont think that fuel is the way to go.. unless capital miners has a "miner siege module" 50000% to mining yield, duration and range.
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.05.28 01:37:00 -
[53]
SWEET JESUS -- Make this stop 
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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King Jareth
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Posted - 2006.11.14 11:38:00 -
[54]
I just came across this thread. YES a capital class ship is DEFINANTLY needed! Graet Idea. I know that someone else mentioned it already but kinda like the Mining Vessel "Kuun-Lan" from Homeworld Cataclysm. Why not? Miners have lots of money and would want to devote it to research and development to their cause, i think story wise it makes 100% sense too.
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