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Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.26 02:40:00 - [1] Before I get started I want to note that I do not know of CCP having any current plans for anything like this. These ideas are only rough at this point and not really hard stats. The goal here is to come up with something that serves a need and provides a good risk vs reward. Here is an overview of the goals for this project. - Provide a capitol level ship for advanced industrial players - Create a ship that is useless for macro miners and forces risk vs reward - Create a ship that is only useful in low sec and 0.0 - Force this ship to need help from a gang to be fully used - Create a ship that is very useful for a large organization but be put at risk do to only being able to use in dangerous space and also having other limitations. - The more the ship is setup for reward it is equally balanced with risk and added cost to run. - Ships can't use gates - Ships can use jump drives - Comes in two sizes. One carrier size and larger on mothership size - Smaller size can be built in stations. Large size can't - Smaller size can dock in stations large size same limitations as mothership with docking - If built in empire and used in that empire system it will mine no better than a covetor. - Can only mine at full capability in low sec and 0.0 space. 0.5 and above extremely bad cost benefit. - Must us new special anchoring module to get full capability. - Once module anchors ship the duration is 5 minutes. The ship can't move until that time is up. Even if the pilot logs the ship will remain in space during that duration. - All forms of EW can be used on both sizes of ship at any time. - Smaller one will cost around 1 bil and the large one 15 bil isk. - Can use new capitol size mining drones. - Capitol size drones can only be used with anchoring module so they can't be used in 0.5 and above. - Don't have the room to fit fighters but can fit large drones or smaller. - Gets bonus to only mining command modules. - Can fit new special internal secure can which gang members can access only in space. - Internal secure can can't be access while docked. - Still has normal cargo hold and it can be accessed like normal. - Largest size ship can fit a mobile refinery but it needs fuel to run - No drones of any size can be assigned to any gang member. Ok those are the rough idea. I did come up with some basic specs on the ships and the new mods they will use. I have not had the time to run the numbers and balance the specs or bonuses yet. All ships will be tech 1 and like the barges will be from the faction Ore. All BPs will be released the same as all tech 1 Ore ships. The jump fuel will be what ever racial type that is from Ore's area. I am not sure what that fuel type would be.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.05.26 02:46:00 - [2] weirda hate mining but have to say - those are some very great idea! like the thought of a 'centerpiece' for a huge industrial corp mining event! would provide a very fun target to protect while everyone and their mother would be after it! __ NOS AS WCS Idea #223579
Angus McLein	Posted - 2006.05.26 02:46:00 - [3] Interesting Idea...but Id drop the price some. 1 bil to 15Bil isk is a lot of money. If the price stayed then corps wouldnt be able to afford the ship and keep it running. And to add to that make a large capitol size mining laser...(or did you already say that? dont remember)
Valcoria Jade	Posted - 2006.05.26 02:48:00 - [4] Originally by: Angus McLein Interesting Idea...but Id drop the price some. 1 bil to 15Bil isk is a lot of money. If the price stayed then corps wouldnt be able to afford the ship and keep it running. And to add to that make a large capitol size mining laser...(or did you already say that? dont remember) I wanted to start with a high price and balance it down once I posted up some rough specs and got some feedback. Yes along with new capitol mining lasers other capitol class mods will also come with them.
Foulis	Posted - 2006.05.26 02:48:00 - [5] Not a bad idea, would definitely not be used by macro miners. Doesn't seem to be overpowered and does benifit with gang use. I'd think a midpoint between transport and freighter cargo size would be cool and could fill the current gap. Jump drive is nice. In general I give it a big thumbs up and I'm not a miner ---- Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
Valcoria Jade	Posted - 2006.05.26 02:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Weirda weirda hate mining but have to say - those are some very great idea! like the thought of a 'centerpiece' for a huge industrial corp mining event! would provide a very fun target to protect while everyone and their mother would be after it! Yes the idea was to have one or more the center of a mining op that still includes other ships such as barges or such. To balance risk vs reward they are forced to only be used in low sec and 0.0 so PvPers will have a chance to kill them. Also forcing them to anchor forces to mining op to stay and defend them instead of safe spotting and logging. Chances are during that 5 minute duration and raiding party could find them and lock them down so they can't run after the cycle. Since the ships can't defend themselves the raiding group will kill them. You want to use these ships to gain an advantage you better be ready to defend them. I can balance the anchoring duration to further balance risk vs reward as needed.
DrSeuss	Posted - 2006.05.26 03:28:00 - [7] Quote: - Ships can use jump drives Im not to sure on this one, mabey if they can only jump with an empty hold. http://www.phoenix-labs.net Everyone knows the only true wisdom is on T-Shirts
Valcoria Jade	Posted - 2006.05.26 03:34:00 - [8] Ok first off the rough idea and some rough stats on the new mods they will use. Also since they are capitol level ships they will have a host of new skills as well needed and the requirements will be high. Again I went high on the skill requirements like I did the price. All values are listed like they show in CCPs item database. Stats naturely don't factor in skills or bonuses unless noted. Capitol Strip Miner I Powergrid usage: 25000 MW Cpu usage: 12000 tf/ 60tf with ship bonus Activation cost: 270 Energy Optimal range: 15 km Activation time/duration: 360,00 sec Mining amount: 1080 Ore units Slot: hislot and doesn't require turret slot Same mining rate and range as Strip Miner I. Gets boosted in other ways listed later. Requires new skills to use. Capitol Ice Harvester I Powergrid usage: 25000 MW Cpu usage: 12000 tf/ 60tf with ship bonus Activation cost: 890 Energy Optimal range: 10 km Activation time/duration: 1200,00 sec Mining amount: 2000 Ore units (Note that 1000 Ore units equeals 1 unit of Ice) Slot: hislot and doesn't require turret slot Same mining rate and range as Ice Harvester I. Gets boosted in other ways listed later. Requires new skills to use. Capitol Mining Drone I Armorhp: 1000 (Gave them some armor due to high costs. Can balance down to 1 hp if needed) Max velocity: 300 m/s Capacity: 2400 m3 Volume: 500 m3 (Big enough BS can't use them, small enough the drone bay can't fit fighters) Optimal range: 5,000 m Activation time/duration: 120,00 sec Mining amount: 45 ore units With new skill at level 5 for them they will mine double a normal Mining Drone I. May need to balance. Capitol Mining Control Module I Powergrid usage: 10000 MW Cpu usage: 12000 tf/ 60 tf with ship bonus Activation cost: 200 energy (Or may use fuel depending on balancing) Activation time/duration: 300,00 sec (May need additional balancing for risk vs reward) Bonus: 20% increased range to Capitol Strip and Ice Havesters per level. 10% reduction in Captitol Strip and Ice Havesters per level. Special: Use of module anchors ship. Can't be used in 0.5 and above. Required to be active to use Capitol Mining Drones. Slot: medslot Say hello to the risk vs reward module. You need it to use your gear well or at all but locks you down for several minutes if things go bad. Major balancing can happen here. Capitol Survey Scanner I Powergrid usage: 5000 MW Cpu usage: 12000 tf/ 60 tf with ship bonus Activation cost: 120 energy Activation time/duration 60,00 sec Surveyscan range: 30 km (Same as C Strip Miner with full bonus) Slot: medslot Needed for those times you want to make sure you don't pop a roid and since it matches the range of your lasers if it is in your survey you can strip it. Capitol Mobile Ore Refinery I Powergrid usage: 50000 MW Cpu usage: 12000 tf/ 60 tf with ship bonus Activation cost: 100 Strontium Clathrates (Need to balance with Cost aka reward and risk aka logistics. No free lunch here) Activation time/duration: 300,00 sec (Again balance needed same as above) Refining amount: 25000 Ore Units (1 Ore unit = 1 m3 of Ore at least I think that is what CCP is saying with this stat) Capacity: 25000 m3 (Will match the refine amount. Can only be accessed in space and only holds either ore or the minerals refined from them. Will need to be balanced to factor in the before and after refine) Slot: lowslot Special: Can only be used on the "Mothership" sized mining ship. Capitol Mobile Ice Refinery I Same idea as the Ore refinery but I haven't had the time to come up with the rough numbers yet. In both cases I also haven't come up with the refine yield they will have. Not sure how good or bad I will make them compared to POS, Outposts or Stations. No matter what they will need extremely high skills to get good yields.
Valcoria Jade	Posted - 2006.05.26 03:37:00 - [9] Originally by: DrSeuss Quote: - Ships can use jump drives Im not to sure on this one, mabey if they can only jump with an empty hold. I am trying to balance that one out. The normal cargo hold will be smaller than a dread or worst case no bigger. Any other mods that provide storage will not be able to be access in stations and will also be limited to only carry ore or minerals. If need be could also add a hard limit that they can't jump with any cargo. In fact I really like your idea if CCP can code it fine.
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.26 03:38:00 - [10] Opps Stupid alt posting. Valcoria Jade is me.

Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.26 03:59:00 - [11] Now for the part everyone loves and is one of CCP's past times, well other than beer and women, is shiny new skills to use all this stuff. Again I went high and in this case I think I am very justified. Capitol in general have high skill requirements and since most current skills needed a high end miner will already have I don't think I am out of line. I did want to add even more required skills and still may. I have not included the ranks of the new skills since I havn't had the time to balance them on that. Capitol Strip Mining Skill Skill requirements: Mining V, Astrogeology V (I want to add more here) Capitol Ice Mining Skill Skill requirements: Mining V, Astrogeology V, Ice Harvesting V (Same as above and should always require the one extra skill) Capitol Mining Control Skill Skill requirements: Industry V, Spaceship Command V, Advanced Spaceship Command I, Mining V, Astrogeology V, Science V, Industry V Capitol Class Mining Ship Skill Skill requirements: Industry V, Spaceship Command V, Advanced Spaceship Command V, Mining V, Astrogeology V, Science V, Capitol Ships I, Industry V, Leadership V, Mining Foreman V, Mining Director I
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.05.26 04:00:00 - [12] very interesting idea (and i'm not a miner too :P) maybe i will add a mining bonus on gankmates something like +% to mining lasers/drones with ships in gank or linked with the capitol this way even dedicated miners that can't pilot the capitol ship can join in the mining operation and have benefits a variaton (maybe not much doable :P) could be to make it a sort of remote station whitout many mining capability but itself but boosting other miners efficency and using drones to transfers cargo... something like... it links a mining ship such ship receive the big mining bonus and a drone will continuosly travel between the miner and the capitol to carry minerals harvested this way all the mineral will still be in the capitol ships even if many miners will benefit from its boost
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.26 04:28:00 - [13] Both sizes get fitting bonuses only the mining leadership mods so they benefit the whole gang. Think how the carriers work with the leadership mods but with mining mods and not the combat ones. Like the Mothership, the "Mothership" size miner will have an additonal bonus and slots to fit several of the leadership mining mods at once without the need for a command processor. It will make more sense once I post some rough stats for both size ships. They are still extremely rough so I will post them later after I have time to work on them more. Miner or not I think I lot of people will like these. The miners get two great types of ships to have a mining op centered around. The PvPers get a new juicy target to kill and the miners will be forced to stay and defend. Great possibilities for fights and a nice new addtion of risk vs reward for industrialist. I will love to be on either side. Originally by: Ath Amon very interesting idea (and i'm not a miner too :P) maybe i will add a mining bonus on gankmates something like +% to mining lasers/drones with ships in gank or linked with the capitol this way even dedicated miners that can't pilot the capitol ship can join in the mining operation and have benefits a variaton (maybe not much doable :P) could be to make it a sort of remote station whitout many mining capability but itself but boosting other miners efficency and using drones to transfers cargo... something like... it links a mining ship such ship receive the big mining bonus and a drone will continuosly travel between the miner and the capitol to carry minerals harvested this way all the mineral will still be in the capitol ships even if many miners will benefit from its boost
Audri Fisher	Posted - 2006.05.26 04:39:00 - [14] It has to have enough hitpoints so it can't be suicide killed by a small group of people just becuase they have enough isk to do so. You gotta be able to have at least 5-6 mins to be able to kill enemy ships before this thing pops. Otherwise it is just that, something to be suicided becuase it can be.
gfldex	Posted - 2006.05.26 04:45:00 - [15] I'm thinking about capital mining and getting big gangs involed into mining ops. A role for ppl who cant mine or haul would be nice to. So here my approach. The capital miner can fit 3 fat mining lasers that can suck in a whole roid but got a rather long cycle. So you better go into a belt with high volume roids. You would need a scout to find such belts. A nice job for younger players. Then this fat laser creates a pollution cloud like the deep core miner. As the ship itself can repair (no low slots) it would need remote repair ships. Give it a lowish lock time and you can bring remote sensor boosters into play. I would give it a rather large cargo hold so you need less haulers and jump drives. Simply that will keep ppl from using it in empire. As it is an expensive toy you better bring a fleet in to protect it. Maybe a siege mode where it cant mine or run away but gets insane resi to give the defender the option to make a couple of jump to save it. Team work where all professions come into play are simply not in game yet. I would love to see that gab filled. -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.26 04:55:00 - [16] I was thinking the "smaller" ship would have the total HP of a carrier and the "Mothership" sized one well the HP of you guested it a Mothership. That should be enough to keep one alive. Add in a carrier or two remote repairing it the fight should be long enough to be tactical and fun. Stats on the ships are still a work in progress and it will make more sense when I post them. Originally by: Audri Fisher It has to have enough hitpoints so it can't be suicide killed by a small group of people just becuase they have enough isk to do so. You gotta be able to have at least 5-6 mins to be able to kill enemy ships before this thing pops. Otherwise it is just that, something to be suicided becuase it can be.
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.26 05:31:00 - [17] Ok here are some rough stats for the ships. I haven't balance the stats at all yet and still need to run a lot of numbers. In all honesty some of the stats I pull out of my butt simply for place holders. Please try to still look more of the idea more than these crappy stats. All resists are standard tech I. Capitol Miner Tier 1 "The Small Ship" Powergrid output: 135000 MW Lowslots: 2 Medslots: 6 Hislots: 3 Cpuoutput: 650 tf Shieldcapacity: 20000 Shieldrecharge: Not a clue yet Armorhp: 15000 Hullhp: 30000 Max Velocity: 50 m/s Drone capacity: 2500 m3 Capacity: 18000 m3 (Its cargo bay. Needs balancing bad) Mass: 1100000000 kg (I hope I have enough 0s) Volume: 14000000 m3 (1100000 m3 packaged) Don't want it to be carried in freighters. I need to check and see if this is large enough to stop that. Capacitor capacity: 38000 energy Maximum targeting range: 45 km Max locked targets: 6 Signature radius: 1200 m Scan resolution: 500 mm Jump drive consumption amount: 1000 Jump drive capacitor need: 0,95 Base price: around ISK 1.000.000.000,00 Bonus: 3% better yield for Capitol Strip Miners per level. 4% reduction in Capitol Strip Miner and Ice Harvester per level. Special: 99.5% reduction in CPU need for all Capitol Mining Modules. 99% reduction in CPU need for Mining Foremen Link modules. Capitol Miner Tier 2 "The Mothership" Powergrid output: 250000 MW Lowslots: 3 Medslots: 8 Hislots: 6 Cpuoutput: 750 tf Shieldcapacity: 40000 Shieldrecharge: Not a clue yet Armorhp: 30000 Hullhp: 60000 Max Velocity: 40 m/s Drone capacity: 2500 m3 Capacity: 25000 m3 (Its cargo bay. Needs balancing bad) Mass: 1500000000 kg (I hope I have enough 0s) Volume: 60000000 m3 (1500000 m3 packaged) Don't want it to be carried in freighters. I need to check and see if this is large enough to stop that. Capacitor capacity: 41000 energy Maximum targeting range: 45 km Max locked targets: 6 Signature radius: 1500 m Scan resolution: 400 mm Jump drive consumption amount: 1000 Jump drive capacitor need: 0,95 Base price: around ISK 15.000.000.000,00 Bonus: 3% better yield for Capitol Strip Miners per level. 4% reduction in Capitol Strip Miner and Ice Harvester per level. Special: 99.5% reduction in CPU need for all Capitol Mining Modules including Mobile Refinery. 99% reduction in CPU need for Mining Foremen Link modules. Can fit 1 additional Mining Foreman Link module per level. I may also boost the "Mothership" size one in the future by adding a Mobile Factory. That way the "Mothership" could be use in a offensive campain. One "Mothership" could refine any ore from a quick mining op in or near the enemies territory. Then the minerals could be transfered to a second "Mothership" fitted with a mobile factory and build ammo and small ships. Then the ammo and small ships could be transfer to a real Mothership or Carrier. Crazy stuff and would create all sorts of great risk vs reward for the siegeing side. Not to mention the defending side gets a bunch of juicy targets to kill that can't just run away. The factory fitted ship would have to stay anchored while building after all.
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2006.05.26 08:40:00 - [18] Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 26/05/2006 08:42:07 Interesting idea, but too overpowered and complex. Why not simply build on existing Freighter hulls? Make the cargohold of the ship accessible from other ships, like a carrier hangar. Make the ship refine ore/ice at a faster rate than POS refineries (high-slot module); but at a decreased efficiency (5-10 min cycle, 30% eff). Use a module to do this, but causes the ship to be locked down for the duration of the job. Give the ship two high slots, one med, one low. Allow use of gang mods, and provide a Mining Gang Mod bonus per-level; as per command ships. Drop the cargo capacity of the ship to about 1/2 of Freighters; _anything_ put in the hangar is refined (ships, modules, ore, ice) at the skill of the pilot. Nothing else, no armaments, no jump drive, etc. Simply a mobile refinery for mining ops.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.05.26 09:04:00 - [19] well all it takes to have freighter with jump drive is carrier + 50 skiffs. And cargo accesible from space. Die, die, die.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.05.26 09:18:00 - [20] To be honest I dont belive these ships would be used with your stats. Just because its a capital miner does not mean it should be gimped. Just look at dreadnoughts they are good for what their role is, so it only make sense that capital miners are good in what they are suppose to do, and that is mining. To be a successfull mining ship you need large cargobay, maybe a corp hangar too for deep space operation. Maybe see the capital miner as a independent station or outpost, it can perform 30 jumps from any station as its almost a station itself, a mining station that is. It should be able to mine like 5 Covetors at low skills, and get bonus to mining yield and mining links. Of course these ships will also be have mobile refineries and they should also be able to jump with their cargohold filled with minerals. Else there is no point in giving them jumpdrives. And to use the Carrier and Mothership scheme to balance new capital miners, well that idea does not fitt at all! "We brake for nobody"

mr passie	Posted - 2006.05.26 09:29:00 - [21] Here's a thought, skip the whole captital mining laser but instead give the ship a bonus to existing strip miner range and let it fit 1 or 2 more. It should be a platform for other gang members, not be too overpowered in itself. Fit it with an expensive to fuel jumpdrive, that way it cannot go into high sec and pervents it from being a complete mineral/ore carrier. Tricky thing would be it's cargo hold, if it's small it's pretty useless, but when it gets too large, it will become a jump capable freighter. ----------------------------------------------- I'm a reversed paranoid schizophrenic. I have voices in my head I just think I don't hear them
ArchenTheGreat	Posted - 2006.05.26 09:33:00 - [22] For me it looks like a alliance-only ship. Any such ship mining solo or with 1-2 BS cover in low sec will die to pirate gang in 10 min after jumping to belt. To ensure it's safety you will need quite a big gang so it forces big amount of ore mined to keep risk/reward in reasonable range. On the other side: in deep (alliance) 0.0 you can mine solo in it (given you can tank rat spawns) because this space is mostly secure. Small interceptor gangs can't kill it fast enough until help arrives.
Ather Ialeas	Posted - 2006.05.26 09:44:00 - [23] What...again? I really like the concept of capital mining, but I must say that after I posted my capital ships and advanced refinery skills idea to Suggestions forum I've noticed this sort of posts started to spawn almost everywhere...and my idea wasn't just a "Strip Miner mark 3" as most of the other peoples' ideas seem to be which is a shame since gameplay wise having almost the same items with wacky names isn't that innovative at all. (yes, I don't like the amount of named equipment). Anyway, you're free to of course see what I suggested in here but what this makes me think is that should've I originally just create a new thread in general discussion about my idea instead of following the "proper" way of suggesting something? ________________________________________________ My signature exploded :/
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2006.05.26 09:48:00 - [24] Ships with large cargo holds should not have strip miners. Why? Well I can happily put a mining laser on a badger, point it at a large roid, then pop to work; coming home to a nice full cargo hold. Scaling that upto a huge cargo hold is just silly. By all means, put mobile refineries into the game, or put asteroid belt mining arrays; but dont put in a ship that can do both.
Daedalus Maxwell	Posted - 2006.05.26 11:24:00 - [25] I got a better idea...gimme one of these PS. If you can't see the link, right click and copy the link location, paste to browser and delete everything past ships. That should work, although its for build 2.09.3805 theres a test science vessel under freighters section there. Me personally I would love to see that as a capital class mining and manufacturing vessel.
Olirtad Fiven	Posted - 2006.05.26 11:45:00 - [26] a capital miner imo is not such a great idea. I'd rather like to see a capital ship(with same restrictions) that makes it easier for others to mine. By giving bonuses to yield or mining laser duration perhaps? As well as ability to use gang links(maybe also a bonus to mining foreman links? after they're fixed ) Could include a refinery(maybe have one wastefull fast one and one slower efficient one), perhaps even a factory. Could take it further and have laboratories available for these ships, I'm sure there are people who would love to be out in 0.0 like nomads or gypsies. hmm capital harvester drones, I like
Fogy	Posted - 2006.05.26 12:16:00 - [27] im not trying to hijack your thread or anything.. but i was having thoughts in the same area the other day aswell.. I was thinking about it having bonus'es towards barges/Exhumers/mining drones and other mining related stuff. They should bouth have refinerys (the smaler class might have a less eficient one.) Bay layout like a carrier, so they can transport mining barges The main thought about the idea i had, was it would be like a mobile rafinery/mining op outpost thingie.. making a industrial corp able to more easily do mining operations away from stations, outposts, pos's etc.. the same way carriers and mothershipps work for fleet op's I like the risk/reward thoughts you have, also the capitol mining drones/stripminers able to fitt crystals?) I also think the jump fuel costs should be abit high, so they dotn gett used like Freightetrs with jumpdrives. "From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity" New Direction New Area New Victims
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 00:09:00 - [28] It is no more complex than current capitol ships excluding freighters. It has to be complex to make sure they are not misused. Otherwise all you would have is a massive mining barge killing roid fields everywhere and being the new macro miner dream. I want to make them more than hust big barges and have extra useful things they could do. Originally by: FireFoxx80 Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 26/05/2006 08:42:07 Interesting idea, but too overpowered and complex. Why not simply build on existing Freighter hulls? Make the cargohold of the ship accessible from other ships, like a carrier hangar. Make the ship refine ore/ice at a faster rate than POS refineries (high-slot module); but at a decreased efficiency (5-10 min cycle, 30% eff). Use a module to do this, but causes the ship to be locked down for the duration of the job. Give the ship two high slots, one med, one low. Allow use of gang mods, and provide a Mining Gang Mod bonus per-level; as per command ships. Drop the cargo capacity of the ship to about 1/2 of Freighters; _anything_ put in the hangar is refined (ships, modules, ore, ice) at the skill of the pilot. Nothing else, no armaments, no jump drive, etc. Simply a mobile refinery for mining ops.
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.05.27 00:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.05.27 00:15:00 - [30] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Ships with large cargo holds should not have strip miners. Why? Well I can happily put a mining laser on a badger, point it at a large roid, then pop to work; coming home to a nice full cargo hold. Scaling that upto a huge cargo hold is just silly. By all means, put mobile refineries into the game, or put asteroid belt mining arrays; but dont put in a ship that can do both. well, to avoid afk'age you could add two hangars to the miner. one ore hangar and one mineral hangar. ore hangar is 10k while mineral hangar is 50k? so whenever ore hangar is full you have to run your mobile refinery to placfe it in the mineral hangar? "We brake for nobody"

Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 00:17:00 - [31] Again don't dwell on the stats. I said several times over my stats were crap and a work in progress. I rather resent an pre-nerfed idea otherwise everyone would ignore it as being overpowered. Giving them too much cargo room would be a bad idea. They are to mine and in the case of the bigger size also refine. They are not to carry your ore or minerals home. That is the job of the haulers and always should be. Now why did I use carriers as an example. The main reason is that carriers have two extremely distinct sizes of ship and larger of the two has capabilities the smaller one doesn't It also has drawbacks like not being able to dock that also is applies to the caopitol mining ships. No the capitol mining ships are not carriers but since people know about carriers and they are the closest thing to compare to these why ignore that fact. I wanted a cheaper strait forward model and a much more expensive model that had added features for the class. Carriers are the only other example of this. Originally by: Admiral IceBlock To be honest I dont belive these ships would be used with your stats. Just because its a capital miner does not mean it should be gimped. Just look at dreadnoughts they are good for what their role is, so it only make sense that capital miners are good in what they are suppose to do, and that is mining. To be a successfull mining ship you need large cargobay, maybe a corp hangar too for deep space operation. Maybe see the capital miner as a independent station or outpost, it can perform 30 jumps from any station as its almost a station itself, a mining station that is. It should be able to mine like 5 Covetors at low skills, and get bonus to mining yield and mining links. Of course these ships will also be have mobile refineries and they should also be able to jump with their cargohold filled with minerals. Else there is no point in giving them jumpdrives. And to use the Carrier and Mothership scheme to balance new capital miners, well that idea does not fitt at all!
Tervaga	Posted - 2006.05.27 00:30:00 - [32] The idea of the "moon-raker" capital ship is probably the best of the ones I've seen around. Considering it's not a mega-buffed roid whoring machine. The only problem? That moons aren't great for mining. The solution? Make moons worth the trouble, maybe. The idea is basically that they're like a mobile moon-mining platform as opposed to the current stationary ones. Probably less powerful than the stationary platforms, but better for the riskier areas where possible loss makes building a station a bad option. The incentive to both could still remain. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=340682 And when other things become accessible for mining in the future, assuming there'll be a new range of sites for both regular mining ships/barges to access AND stations to access in the future, this class of ship could become even more ideal/useful. Plus, to be honest, most of the other ideas just seem to compound on the entire point of it taking time to reap the rewards of belt mining (and I'm not just talking about the time it takes to mine). On-site refining could be doable, but also could make it too easy for those not willing to put the time/effort into the logistics required. Maybe if a miner was stuck anchored for the time it took to refine (yes I said time, it probably shouldn't be instant if it's going to be on-site) then it'd be more managable. There don't necessarily need to be a large size and a small size either...I mean there's only one size of dreadnaught.
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:11:00 - [33] The reason for creating all new capitol level mining lasers so they could be balanced seperate from smaller strip miners if needed and the fact I didn't want it to be able to do deep core mining. I feel the smaller barges should still have that over the bigger ships. They do use jump drives for the very reason to keep them out of hi sec and to not be used by macro miner farmers. The balance with the cargo hold is one of the hardest things. That is also somewhat of the reason I created special cargo containers that had limited use. Originally by: mr passie Here's a thought, skip the whole captital mining laser but instead give the ship a bonus to existing strip miner range and let it fit 1 or 2 more. It should be a platform for other gang members, not be too overpowered in itself. Fit it with an expensive to fuel jumpdrive, that way it cannot go into high sec and pervents it from being a complete mineral/ore carrier. Tricky thing would be it's cargo hold, if it's small it's pretty useless, but when it gets too large, it will become a jump capable freighter.
Aakron	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:31:00 - [34] I think it would be a good idea, it would be nice to have ships tailored to everybodys needs. If the ship could jump to a system carrying all the barges then deploy itself and refine the minerals and give bonuses and then jump back taking all the minerals and ships back that could be a useful support tool.
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:37:00 - [35] Well as most other fields have capitol ships why not mining ships? It seems silly to have a capitol level mining ship that it itself can't mine. That is like having a freighter that can't carry anything but gives indies a bonus. Why would more than one hauler character in the group train for one if that is the case? These ships do make it easier to mine as they do fit mining foremen links and the biggest one even helps the haulers by providing them less m3 to carry home. Originally by: Olirtad Fiven a capital miner imo is not such a great idea. I'd rather like to see a capital ship(with same restrictions) that makes it easier for others to mine. By giving bonuses to yield or mining laser duration perhaps? As well as ability to use gang links(maybe also a bonus to mining foreman links? after they're fixed ) Could include a refinery(maybe have one wastefull fast one and one slower efficient one), perhaps even a factory. Could take it further and have laboratories available for these ships, I'm sure there are people who would love to be out in 0.0 like nomads or gypsies. hmm capital harvester drones, I like
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:41:00 - [36] I left out crystals due to keep my numbers simple. I did plan on either changing the lasers and or drones to use crystals or making more advanced versions that use them. Think non crystal using gear as needing less logistics, as in not worry about manageing crystals and their costs, and the higher yield gear needing the crystals. Originally by: Fogy im not trying to hijack your thread or anything.. but i was having thoughts in the same area the other day aswell.. I was thinking about it having bonus'es towards barges/Exhumers/mining drones and other mining related stuff. They should bouth have refinerys (the smaler class might have a less eficient one.) Bay layout like a carrier, so they can transport mining barges The main thought about the idea i had, was it would be like a mobile rafinery/mining op outpost thingie.. making a industrial corp able to more easily do mining operations away from stations, outposts, pos's etc.. the same way carriers and mothershipps work for fleet op's I like the risk/reward thoughts you have, also the capitol mining drones/stripminers able to fitt crystals?) I also think the jump fuel costs should be abit high, so they dotn gett used like Freightetrs with jumpdrives.
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:54:00 - [37] Yeah I wanted to balance the space for ore and minerals for the refinery module to be large enough to be useful but small enough to force the pilot to actively run it without being afk. Also due to the ship being anchored and how much it costs I wouldn't want to be that pilot explaining to their corp or alliance why they lost the ship by being afk. Originally by: Admiral IceBlock well, to avoid afk'age you could add two hangars to the miner. one ore hangar and one mineral hangar. ore hangar is 10k while mineral hangar is 50k? so whenever ore hangar is full you have to run your mobile refinery to placfe it in the mineral hangar?
Comdrinker	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:56:00 - [38] Was thinking you might have a version that had a hold that was ore specific, but that its mining lasers couldn't fill, they would have to be filled by other barges or ships. Make it a 100,000m3 or something. Then as an added module have a Capital Tractor beem that would pull jetcans from the barges that have a huge range, like 100km. This would be a "put all your eggs in one basket" type mining, so if you lost it to rats or so forth. It would be a huge loss to the group, hence, defend the hell out of it. Just a thought. Course, then i just realized that the ship itself could just jetcan and put into hold, but maybe there is a workaround. Perhaps say the owner of the can can't be the owner of the captial mining ship.
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 01:59:00 - [39] Well dreads and carriers have been killed on deep 0.0 space while ratting so a mining ship could too. But you are right if the pilot and the alliance they are in is smart these ships will not go down to roaming gangs. But then again I don't feel small interceptor gangs should be able to take down capitol level ships easy. Larger heavy hitters should be needed for that or more than just a small gang of inties. Originally by: ArchenTheGreat For me it looks like a alliance-only ship. Any such ship mining solo or with 1-2 BS cover in low sec will die to pirate gang in 10 min after jumping to belt. To ensure it's safety you will need quite a big gang so it forces big amount of ore mined to keep risk/reward in reasonable range. On the other side: in deep (alliance) 0.0 you can mine solo in it (given you can tank rat spawns) because this space is mostly secure. Small interceptor gangs can't kill it fast enough until help arrives.
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 02:06:00 - [40] When the capitol miner is refining it not only takes time but also consumes fuel. They can't move while refining either and can't stop the refine. The refine will also waste more than a fixed structure. Not to mention a fix structure like a Outpost isn't burning fuel to do the refine so you have added costs. As for moon mining I don't want to step on one of the things POS do but if needed these ships could also get modules for mining other types of stuff like the gas clouds CCP has talked about. I really didn't want to make these ships roid vaccuums and also create a risk for using them, and extra logistics to run them that also included ongoing costs. I do like the idea of more than one size. Does it need to be this way. No I agree it doesn't have to be but I do like the exmple CCP provided with the carriers. Originally by: Tervaga The idea of the "moon-raker" capital ship is probably the best of the ones I've seen around. Considering it's not a mega-buffed roid whoring machine. The only problem? That moons aren't great for mining. The solution? Make moons worth the trouble, maybe. The idea is basically that they're like a mobile moon-mining platform as opposed to the current stationary ones. Probably less powerful than the stationary platforms, but better for the riskier areas where possible loss makes building a station a bad option. The incentive to both could still remain. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=340682 And when other things become accessible for mining in the future, assuming there'll be a new range of sites for both regular mining ships/barges to access AND stations to access in the future, this class of ship could become even more ideal/useful. Plus, to be honest, most of the other ideas just seem to compound on the entire point of it taking time to reap the rewards of belt mining (and I'm not just talking about the time it takes to mine). On-site refining could be doable, but also could make it too easy for those not willing to put the time/effort into the logistics required. Maybe if a miner was stuck anchored for the time it took to refine (yes I said time, it probably shouldn't be instant if it's going to be on-site) then it'd be more managable. There don't necessarily need to be a large size and a small size either...I mean there's only one size of dreadnaught.

Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.27 02:09:00 - [41] I rather a supporting carrier take care of transporting the barges. I didn't want these ships to overlap with current capitol ships. Yes they would be the center of a mining op but would still require other supporting ships to make the whole op work and that includes getting all ships and mined "stuff" to and from the op. Originally by: Aakron I think it would be a good idea, it would be nice to have ships tailored to everybodys needs. If the ship could jump to a system carrying all the barges then deploy itself and refine the minerals and give bonuses and then jump back taking all the minerals and ships back that could be a useful support tool.
Bob Niac	Posted - 2006.05.27 04:08:00 - [42] tbh i would love a dreadnaught sized barge that would in fact have to use cynos to get around (thus somewhat limiting where it could go also i would think it would be neat to use a modified doomsday targeting sytem to mine; thus mining all ore in a limited range (Over time of course.) in a radial pattern activated on a cyno within line of sight. ========= this would require several things: (1) a new mining crystal technology (2) said (mega) crystals (3) strontium caths (or other non racial ice components) (4) being unable to move (5) a stable cyno for the duration of the cycle ========= yes this may semm like it would umm .. demolish belts, but dont worry i considered that first, the radial effect from the cyno is only taking 1/5 of the size of the belt. Also the crystals used to focus the beam/AOE limits it to 1 type of ore Furthermore the "Rad" Miner consumes top teir ice components at a steady rate. This would be very expensive to do unless: A) skills are maxed and B) mass mining is your goal Then there is the fact everything is line of sight. Not to mention the restriction of not moving. ALso i want tis thing to have to taget something.. something expensive, like a cyno, but i digress um this thing would NOT have much cargo, infact it has barely enough for 1 "pulse" (pulses are 3 minute intervals; 5 pulses should equal one "cycle;" one cycle is basically a jetcan) so some 6k in cargo. im also thinking it could fit a modded seige mod taht would only be for defensive purposes um i would think that, even though this would be a large dread, it would have to defend itself, so an extensive drone bay would be nessacery; maybe even a fighter or 3 hmm ... i would also LOVE to see it not be able to dock at npc stations.. this would somewhat limit it to low(er) sec of course it cant use gates, its a dread..... ORE Dreadnaughts FTW __________________________________ Yarr! Pirate Learning Skills!
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.05.27 04:44:00 - [43] What's wrong here, can't you type "capital" Petwraith ♥ me. I make sigs
Bob Niac	Posted - 2006.05.27 04:48:00 - [44] also: Its not capitol ships iirc. __________________________________ Yarr! Pirate Learning Skills!
Mr Breakfast	Posted - 2006.05.27 04:49:00 - [45] Originally by: KilROCK What's wrong here, can't you type "capital" lol trollsauce
Harris	Posted - 2006.05.27 09:57:00 - [46] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock well, to avoid afk'age you could add two hangars to the miner. one ore hangar and one mineral hangar. ore hangar is 10k while mineral hangar is 50k? so whenever ore hangar is full you have to run your mobile refinery to placfe it in the mineral hangar? That's the thing, it isn't just afk mining that is a potential source of abuse with things like this, it's macro miners, and making a macro to take care of moving stuff to another hangar isn't all that hard (apparantly) The concept is awesome though (ore-some?? ). All the suggestions you're putting into ward off it being overpowered are good and more importantly, viable. The next stage is some sort of mobile refinary for miners but the balance side of things has to be very carefully thought through. For now, I would be happy with a mining vessel that can make use of gang links so that miners can be mining directors themselves.
Kunming	Posted - 2006.05.27 10:18:00 - [47] Interesting and well thought ideas, I hope a dev takes notice. Btw just make them use jumpdrives instead of stargates and you have all the problem with high-sec is solved.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.05.27 11:11:00 - [48] well i dont think that fuel is the way to go.. unless capital miners has a "miner siege module" 50000% to mining yield, duration and range. "We brake for nobody"
Ginaz	Posted - 2006.05.27 11:22:00 - [49] You want this for mining?
Skiving Larry	Posted - 2006.05.27 11:39:00 - [50] A capital ship for mining industry ops sounds could be OK but having it doing the actual mining would suck imo. Having it as a mobile refinery, factory and giving mining bounuses would be more the sort of thing however I think indusrial modules for capital ships are already planned so that may cover it.

Glarion Garnier	Posted - 2006.05.27 12:08:00 - [51] Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 27/05/2006 12:16:10 ORE after loosing lot's of it's space to Serpentis threat decided to license it's technology secrets to the Four empires of EVE. And so it came that all empires where interested and bought a license to Ore technology. After that it was commonly known by opposing espionage sections of each empire that eveyone was designing what ORE tehcnology made and easy path to fullfill. Ship that Ore them selves could not design. Building on capital ship priciples to form a structure for integration of the superior strip mining technology. And so each Empire was developing what was to be the ultimate resource gathering platforms in existance. For the suprise of many Financial corps. in the Galaxy Minmatar was the first to accomplish a working model. based on the new minmatr structure designs as their Tier 2 Battlescruisers Minmater Institute of Science presents: the Soul a capital class stripmining platform Whith the power of 6 strip miner hardpoints and cargo bay of 15 K m3 6 high slots, 5 med slots , 4 low slots, 200m3 drone space 5500 shield / 5000 armor / 30 K hull no -jump ability. - But so it happened that Ore had sold similiar integration technolgy. All Empires developed a 6 strip miner version based on their own techonological philosophies. Amarr fitting them with tungsten armor, Gallente wtih crystaline armor and Caldari fitting powerfull shield generators around the the titanium carbide armor they are known for. So In order to sanction the use of such ships in private hands the empires limited their use to low sec and 0.0 space only. Some alnalyst say that the skills for piloting these behemoths require a fortune and the best quality Implants to get the skills trained properly. Scope reports: As a result Amarr corporation Inherent Implants stock value went up 15%.
Jaydyn	Posted - 2006.05.28 01:36:00 - [52] That is somewhat of the idea I am going for. The bonus and fuel use can be balanced as needed. Originally by: Admiral IceBlock well i dont think that fuel is the way to go.. unless capital miners has a "miner siege module" 50000% to mining yield, duration and range.
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.05.28 01:37:00 - [53] SWEET JESUS -- Make this stop Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
King Jareth	Posted - 2006.11.14 11:38:00 - [54] I just came across this thread. YES a capital class ship is DEFINANTLY needed! Graet Idea. I know that someone else mentioned it already but kinda like the Mining Vessel "Kuun-Lan" from Homeworld Cataclysm. Why not? Miners have lots of money and would want to devote it to research and development to their cause, i think story wise it makes 100% sense too.


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