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Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
458
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Posted - 2014.05.10 18:45:00 -
[61] - Quote
Based on my own gaming history...
EverQuest by Sony Online used to have each and every server have a visible count based upon the number of players on that server at the moment. Sony used to be proud of their increasing subscription number and would splash that ever increasing number whenever given the chance. When Sony began to push their expansions to cater more towards the raiding guilds while the other "lesser" guilds not with the best gear available and still cutting their teeth, much less the casual players in general, began to complain about Norrath becoming lopsided, Sony did not listen.
So people began leaving and the numbers showed a drop.
Sony reacted by having a gathering of well-known players from their previously held fan fests flown out to California (if I remember) to discuss what can be done to stop the hemorrhaging. Afterwards, Sony listened, for a spell...
But then Sony decided they knew what was best and proceeded on their original path. By this time, they were diversifying themselves into other pursuits - EverQuest II and early beta of Planet Side, while their main flag ship game was being "dumbed down" to appeal to greater masses that never arrived. And instead of showing numbers per server, it was changed to "Active".
More players were leaving by droves while Sony tried their damnedest to get everyone to be a full life raider. To help that cause, they condensed servers together to promote more gaming together, still without visible numbers.
Now while I am not saying the one time CCP does not publish a number does not mean Eve is dying. But there is a reason people study history...
...and to me, I am seeing subtle parallels to my own past history with Eve on its current path. |
Prince Kobol
1707
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 18:50:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Dave Stark wrote:just in case nobody has pointed it out.
starting your forum topic with a link to some one's blog who A) no longer plays eve, and B) RMT'd all their **** away before loudly announcing it to the world in a buttmad manner before trying to avoid the door hitting them on the way out.... that **** probably isn't the best way to start a topic. Funny thing is . . . I disagree. It shows that even if you leave Eve. Even if you burn every damn bridge on the way out. You still watch from a distance and still care enough to take part in the meta. Eve has many more players than any sub number would have you believe. m
That is a really wonderful way of looking at things, it really is.
However there is another game like this
Lotro.
There are loads of players who still visit forums, still talk about the game they loved via blogs etcs, hell I haven't played Lotro for over 2 years now and I still visit and post on a player run forum regularly as it was a game I loved and is still the only Tolkein based MMO available.
The thing is, the really really important thing, is that I do not contribute 1 penny towards that game.
The same can be said for all those players who have now left Eve but still talk about it.
Financially they contribute nothing and in the CCP's world I pretty damn sure they would prefer people not talking about Eve but paying to play then talking about it and not paying. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
Independent Faction
482
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 18:51:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gutripper, we don't, yet, have solid facts. While I broadly agree with what you're saying, let's wait till we have hard numbers before we start setting up the 'Dinsdale was Right' t-shirt stand. |
Thegasp Cupcakes
CareBears Gone Dark
Pina Colada Armada
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 19:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
IIshira wrote:The number is probably down and that's why they're keeping it a secret but so what...
CCP releases it and all the sudden 100 posts with the topic "I told you this would happen when CCP nerfed sentry drones" appear.
In actuality it's probably down because of the economy. I'm not sure about the rest of the world but in the USA it's been on a downhill slide for the past few years. Most people cut stuff like video games and entertainment first.
I turned off two of my own accounts for that reason. |
Dave Stark
5497
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 19:14:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Funny thing is . . . I disagree.
good to know the CSM are fans of biased and sensationalised sources. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
1006
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 19:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
I do not see subscriptions spelled out in the financials, but this we can get to it in a sort of "backwards calculation".... at least to see if it is going up or down.
When you pay for a subscription, they do not count it immediately as revenue. It is added to something call "deferred revenue". As the time gets "used up", then the deferred revenue moves to actual revenue. So, the changes in deferred revenue is an indication of how many accounts, assuming time remaining on subscriptions is fairly consistant.
The there the financial results show an increase from $3.965 million to $4.360 million. An increase of 15%.
I see no reason to think people have increased their subscription lengths year over year.
There is another category called in-game resources purchased but not uet consumer. That nearly doubled from 1 million to 2 million. My guess is that some of that is PLEX, but the majority is DUST money sitting on account, since DUST doesn't have subscription so won't be in the deferred subscrpition money
|
Transmaritanus
Mafia Redux
133
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 19:50:00 -
[67] - Quote
Sato Page wrote:http://nerdsoliloquy.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/eve-online-may-have-experienced-its.html
We would love to know the subscription number of EvE after the CSM9 election. I could see no reason for CCP to withhold this information from its players. I'm sure CCP just over looked this "minor" detail while compiling this year's election report.
So yeah...... CCP, if you could just go ahead and tell us the number..... That would be great.... Thanks.
Edit1: tl;dr: Until CSM8 CCP releases the number players who participated in the election as well as the total number of subscription on TQ. This year, for the first time, CCP only released the participation number but not the total number of subscription.
Hi poetic, nice to see you back |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
1393
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 19:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sato Page wrote:http://nerdsoliloquy.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/eve-online-may-have-experienced-its.html
We would love to know the subscription number of EvE after the CSM9 election. I could see no reason for CCP to withhold this information from its players. I'm sure CCP just over looked this "minor" detail while compiling this year's election report.
So yeah...... CCP, if you could just go ahead and tell us the number..... That would be great.... Thanks.
Edit1: tl;dr: Until CSM8 CCP releases the number players who participated in the election as well as the total number of subscription on TQ. This year, for the first time, CCP only released the participation number but not the total number of subscription.
Commercially sensitive info, it doesn't make good business sense to release it.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
1393
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 20:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Sato Page wrote:Joshua Foiritain wrote:Or the more likely option is that subscriber numbers are still going up but even less people give a **** about the CSM then before? In this case, CCP should release the number. Just to kill rumour of this kind. Yup.... The employee who did all the analysis in the blog clearly had the raw number available, but chose not to reveal it. So really only a couple potential reasons why it was not revealed. 1. CCP is going in a new direction and not releasing sub numbers anymore, good or bad. But we have seen zero comments from management as to why that new direction. 2. It was an accidental omission. Reason #2 is utterly implausible, and reason #1, well, why would they suddenly change? And best thing, CCP is doubling down in steering the game in the direction that created this very likely subscription drop. An enormously bad business decision.
It's pretty obvious just from the log in that player counts are falling, subscribers are going up though thanks to all of the alts going around, but actual players look like they are in decline.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
12
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 20:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.
like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death. |
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Prince Kobol
1707
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Posted - 2014.05.10 20:57:00 -
[71] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.
like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death.
Crap. Totally and utter crap.
If you are trying to say that the goons are ruining your fun then leave as your the worst kind of player.
People may be, may be leaving Eve, but it is nothing to do with the goons or any other player entity.
If anything at least the Goons are providing content.
The Goons or any other player entity in no way control or effect my enjoyment or lack of it in Eve. The only people who effect my enjoyment are those who work for CCP. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
12
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:00:00 -
[72] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.
like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death. Crap. Totally and utter crap. If you are trying to say that the goons are ruining your fun then leave as your the worst kind of player. People may be, may be leaving Eve, but it is nothing to do with the goons or any other player entity. If anything at least the Goons are providing content. The Goons or any other player entity in no way control or effect my enjoyment or lack of it in Eve. The only people who effect my enjoyment are those who work for CCP.
lol all one has to say is the word goon and they will show up like a street corner preacher. you guys have ruined the game and im not afraid to say it. CCP encouraged bullying to the point they're finally admitting new players are avoiding joining corps and crap due to the utter chit-fest ful drama its all caused.. go chase your blue doughnut and put this game out of its misery. |
Prince Kobol
1707
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.
like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death. Crap. Totally and utter crap. If you are trying to say that the goons are ruining your fun then leave as your the worst kind of player. People may be, may be leaving Eve, but it is nothing to do with the goons or any other player entity. If anything at least the Goons are providing content. The Goons or any other player entity in no way control or effect my enjoyment or lack of it in Eve. The only people who effect my enjoyment are those who work for CCP. lol all one has to say is the word goon and they will show up like a street corner preacher. you guys have ruined the game and im not afraid to say it. CCP encouraged bullying to the point they're finally admitting new players are avoiding joining corps and crap due to the utter chit-fest ful drama its all caused.. go chase your blue doughnut and put this game out of its misery.
The second you wrote "you guys" shows how little you know and that your opinion bears a striking similarly to my toilet paper after I have used it.
Its full of ......... |
Ahost Gceo
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
80
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
How about we just play the game.
Nerds.
??? |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
1007
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:15:00 -
[75] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:CCP will never ever post those real numbers, cause it would prove they've been lying about numbers all along. no matter how pretty pie charts they create, they know folks are leaving this game as its becoming more cfc eve & goon sec. this is the nail in the coffin. looking forward to the new games coming that way I know where to spend my money.
like it or not.. bottom line is ccp needs my money, until they get with their program I'll enjoy watching them starve to death.
The financial results do not align with your assertions. Deferred revenue from subscriptions is up 15% year-over-year. Unless there is reason to think that there are fewer subscribed users, but each has drastically increased the amount of time remaining on their accounts such that it covers up falling subscription numbers, the only viable conclusion from their financial report is that EVE subscriptions are up significantly year-over-year.
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
12
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:How about we just play the game.
Nerds.
im too busy delivering a carton of milk to a station in order to earn 123 isk and 2 lp's for the moment. the game hasn't began really just sickening boring missions. it's almost as if I get a sense who ever created missions was really ticked off being tasked with it. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
1007
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:
People may be, may be leaving Eve, but it is nothing to do with the goons or any other player entity.
Based on the 15% increased deferred income in the subscription category, all indications are that subscriptions to EVE are up significantly over the last year. That, or a lot of people have an extra month of subscription than they had last year. |
Ahost Gceo
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
80
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:How about we just play the game.
Nerds. im too busy delivering a carton of milk to a station in order to earn 123 isk and 2 lp's for the moment. the game hasn't began really just sickening boring missions. it's almost as if I get a sense who ever created missions was really ticked off being tasked with it.
So while I'm rolling with my alliance looking for capital ships to inappropriately fondle, I'm looking at your employment history. And what do I see? Little more than one month of total game experience. How about you say "screw it" to missions and go do something with more risk and excitement? It's out there, but YOU have to go find it. If excitement finds you instead, it's never a good thing.
??? |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
1007
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:21:00 -
[79] - Quote
wait... when did they start duel training?
If 10% of accounts have activated duel... or even triple toon training, then that could actually account for the 15% increase in deferred income. When you activate, the money goes into deferred, then comes out as used up... so... |
Cheng Musana
Purple Space Ponys
AAA Citizens
90
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
This reminds me somehow of a sinking ship (costa concordia) and his captain who left first before any of his passangers. What this basically means is that CCP keeps the decline of subs a secret so that the rest of the players dont run off from the sinking ship before CCP does. Just look what they done with dust, they knew that it was going down but didnt told their players until fanfest (to keep milking them). Another hint for this behaviour is for example the Dust514 login screen, it tells you how many players are online on TQ. ironically this number combines Dust+Eve players online. You surely could go and check how many of that are actual dust players (~3500). CCP calms their players by giving them the illusion that much more players are online.
TL;DR
-CCP milks dust514 then runs off without telling their players.
-CCP milks Eve and runs off (maybe) again without telling any 1 whats going on. |
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Ahost Gceo
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
80
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:46:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:This reminds me somehow of a sinking ship (costa concordia) and his captain who left first before any of his passangers. What this basically means is that CCP keeps the decline of subs a secret so that the rest of the players dont run off from the sinking ship before CCP does. Just look what they done with dust, they knew that it was going down but didnt told their players until fanfest (to keep milking them). Another hint for this behaviour is for example the Dust514 login screen, it tells you how many players are online on TQ. ironically this number combines Dust+Eve players online. You surely could go and check how many of that are actual dust players (~3500). CCP calms their players by giving them the illusion that much more players are online.
TL;DR
-CCP milks dust514 then runs off without telling their players.
-CCP milks Eve and runs off (maybe) again without telling any 1 whats going on.
Considering the massive amount of effort that CCP has made in things such as FanFest, EVE Vegas, the unending expansions and updates...that some exceptionally unsupported tinfoil-hattery right there. CCP has made a massive investment in this player community and they aren't just going to "pull out" because we are their baby. If they pull the plug on EVE, they have no business.
??? |
Billy Hix
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
154
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:55:00 -
[82] - Quote
The numbers are down. I think its madness to try to claim otherwise.
For 10 years CCP has crowed at the top of their lungs that they are the only MMO that has constantly grown and to prove it they have always released figures. This year they are silent and hide the figures. Its clear, but is it a big deal?
Well not if they can still affords to develop the game. Once the money drops to a certain extent and the game hits maintenance mode then we all need to decide if we are happy with the game as it is or if we want to move on. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2268
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
Highsec pubbies if there was actual data showing that sub numbers are going up and every highsec nerf netted more growth would you all continue to howl that EVE is dieing? Would you all continue to preach that the highsec pubbie rapture isn't a myth?
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
15442
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 22:16:00 -
[84] - Quote
I don't think its "hi-sec" subs that are at risk.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
Independent Faction
486
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:12:00 -
[85] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:I do not see subscriptions spelled out in the financials,
http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47894/ccp_hf_financial_statements_december_31_2013.pdf?_ga=1.124024842.1230018860.1385400286
Page 17. 'Revenue from Subscriptions and In Game Sales' (presumably including plex and Aurum)
Which came to 70m or so for 2013. Up from the previous year, by 8m but more than half of it was in the first six months, suggesting that subs dropped off a bit in the second half. Royalties increased over the previous year (probably that increase in subs on Serenity) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2268
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:13:00 -
[86] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I don't think its "hi-sec" subs that are at risk.
I don't either but they are the loudest ones.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
Independent Faction
486
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:15:00 -
[87] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I don't think its "hi-sec" subs that are at risk.
Bluntly we don't have good information on who's what where. We're speculating.until the 2014 6 month comes out in June, based on limited info. |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
139
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:16:00 -
[88] - Quote
Sato Page wrote:http://nerdsoliloquy.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/eve-online-may-have-experienced-its.html
We would love to know the subscription number of EvE after the CSM9 election. I could see no reason for CCP to withhold this information from its players. I'm sure CCP just over looked this "minor" detail while compiling this year's election report.
So yeah...... CCP, if you could just go ahead and tell us the number..... That would be great.... Thanks.
Edit1: tl;dr: Until CSM8 CCP releases the number players who participated in the election as well as the total number of subscription on TQ. This year, for the first time, CCP only released the participation number but not the total number of subscription.
I dont care about the sub numbers, many others feel the same way. Please reword your post. Thanks CCP keep up the good work. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
Independent Faction
486
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:17:00 -
[89] - Quote
General Nusense wrote:
I dont care about the sub numbers, many others feel the same way. Please reword your post. Thanks CCP keep up the good work.
They should. Lower subs mean less money for developing new stuff for everyone. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1314
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 23:24:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP will release those numbers if and when they want to release them. Until the any speculation on thos numbers is nothing more then that: speculation.
Thread locked.
The Rules:
31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.
Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.
ISD Ezwal
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
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