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Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 4226	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:46:00 - [31] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Capital probing rigs Lol probably Though its conceivable that an extremely (to the point of vulgar wastage) wealthy pilot may want to put those on a brick they like to sit in while they do WH industry or something Shrug "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á *FREE THE JITA 1*
Solecist Project Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1084	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:49:00 - [32] - Quote Interesting to read this and see how it doesn't apply to me at all. TL;DR: Too many people are cowards. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears! Red blood, boiling hot!
Webvan All Kill No Skill 4070	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:57:00 - [33] - Quote Chopper Rollins wrote: Yim Sei wrote: What this also means is 99% of combat pilots in eve will never, ever engage unless the odds are stacked completely in their favour. This stat is made up. You think? Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close the wall up with our English dead! In peace, there GÇÖs nothing so becomes a man, As modest stillness and humility: But when the blast of war blows in our ears, Then imitate the action of the tiger; Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood.
Solecist Project Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 1084	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:01:00 - [34] - Quote Yim Sei wrote: Saisin wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: So many words just to say "I don't have balls" I think each player's balls is simply measured by the size of their in-game wallet... Some also cherish their kill board so much that their perspective on PvP is only viewed through the prism of the kill/ISK ratios, which leads to another form of "eunuquiness", only finding their balls within the blobs... Yep good answer. I have the balls, but whats the point flying expensive ships when all you meet are blobs, and any 'equal footing' will meen your opponent runs like the pretend pvper they are?. As I said before happy to engage anyone even if odds are not in my favour by a certain amount - but the cost of fitted ships relative to the isk generation required means no-one wants to fight (and I believe most who will can afford to buy plex to fund combat = Eve PvP is for the RL affluent). Saying that the wallets size determines the size of the balls shows that you don't see beyond your own fears. When the wallet determines the size, it means that the balls are small to begin with and the wallet acts as a protection to hide this fact from others. If it matters to you what you lose and how much it costs you, you don't deserve to have it. That's why it's locked in a cage where it can't be taken away. The expensive ships are an extension to the balls. Losing them would expose yourself to the fact that they are tiny, without the necessary self realization that would liberate your mind from the cage it is in. You have no balls at all. If you don't believe it... go out there in something shiny, expensive and self created. You'll see. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears! Red blood, boiling hot!
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 9806	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:03:00 - [35] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ramona McCandless wrote: Yim Sei wrote: At the moment the numerous ships modules and rigs only seem to serve the economy and not the player. Is there any way around this? or are all our fitting options just a moot point? I was about to say the only module that doesn't have a realistic use is Festival Launcher, but even that has conceivable purpose. I suppose I am missing the point. Which modules and rigs are you talking about which serve no purpose to the pilot? Can you give me an example so I know what you mean? Capital probing rigs I know this is against the rules but https://zkillboard.com/kill/36207486/ "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 408	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:07:00 - [36] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ramona McCandless wrote: Yim Sei wrote: At the moment the numerous ships modules and rigs only seem to serve the economy and not the player. Is there any way around this? or are all our fitting options just a moot point? I was about to say the only module that doesn't have a realistic use is Festival Launcher, but even that has conceivable purpose. I suppose I am missing the point. Which modules and rigs are you talking about which serve no purpose to the pilot? Can you give me an example so I know what you mean? Capital probing rigs I thought that was the only viable Pheonix fit EDIT: Dammit James!
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 4226	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:09:00 - [37] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I know this is against the rules but snipped Wait... whut I dont why..? what "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á *FREE THE JITA 1*
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 11458	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:14:00 - [38] - Quote Ramona McCandless wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: I know this is against the rules but snipped Wait... whut I dont why..? what Surprisingly not the worst fit out there Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Audrey UntzUntz Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 52	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:14:00 - [39] - Quote There are no fair fights in EVE, so I see OP's point. It would be nice to have some sort of dueling system where people cannot interfere. Like as if CONCORD can't set up a "dueling arena" ; a massive, massive dome that only the two duelers can enter.
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 408	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:17:00 - [40] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ramona McCandless wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: I know this is against the rules but snipped Wait... whut I dont why..? what Surprisingly not the worst fit out there Yeah, some fit Capital Cruise Launchers
Solete Fonulique Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:17:00 - [41] - Quote I would say more than 99% won't engage without them believing they have a higher chance of success than the other person. I would like to say I'm in the <1% but it's not really by choice. I just don't really know when I stand a chance or not. Forum alt.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 11458	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:20:00 - [42] - Quote Aralyn Cormallen wrote: Yeah, some fit Capital Cruise Launchers Not as useless as one might think. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 4227	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:29:00 - [43] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Surprisingly not the worst fit out there But surely all those mid slot scan boosters are totally redundant? I mean, I can see the use of the other stuff... Though... If you go and make that thing, why only put Core and not Expanded probe launcher on it? "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á *FREE THE JITA 1*
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 4227	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:30:00 - [44] - Quote Solete Fonulique wrote: I would say more than 99% won't engage without them believing they have a higher chance of success than the other person. I would like to say I'm in the <1% but it's not really by choice. I just don't really know when I stand a chance or not. Does firing bombs at gate camps randomly from a single SB count as the 99% or the 1%? "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á *FREE THE JITA 1*
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 1856	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:30:00 - [45] - Quote Solete Fonulique wrote: I would say more than 99% won't engage without them believing they have a higher chance of success than the other person. I would like to say I'm in the <1% but it's not really by choice. I just don't really know when I stand a chance or not. Heh, I have same "problem" but my excuse is "frakk it" attitude all R1FTA share (although unlike them I honestly don't know what I'm doing). I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Chopper Rollins Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 789	Posted - 2014.05.14 14:43:00 - [46] - Quote Audrey UntzUntz wrote: There are no fair fights in EVE, so I see OP's point. It would be nice to have some sort of dueling system where people cannot interfere. Like as if CONCORD can't set up a "dueling arena" ; a massive, massive dome that only the two duelers can enter. OH my lordy no just no. There is that duel thing, i've never used it. A fight that is fair is not a fight it is sport. The very phrase "fair fight" is a nasty idea put in children's heads that makes them miserable when they have to compete. A fair contest is a coin toss, a fight is won before it starts because there's more to it than what you bring. Victors write the story of the fight and surprisingly they are always the good guy. Dueling area would ruin eve, get on sisi with some friends and play silly. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Yim Sei Watchers of Tartarus 150	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:11:00 - [47] - Quote agreed - definitely no arena required. There just needs to be a way to discourage the current cowardly tactics of blobs and camping en mass and give people a reason to ship up and go out and fight either solo or in small gangs without breaking the bank or losing what has taken an incredible amount of boring grind to achieve. That is generally my point. Lots of solo and small gangers play eve too - why just benefit the game for the isboxers, donuters and plex buyers? Yes yes we all know ccp needs to make money but its taking all the real fun* out of the game. *fun you can have without a speadsheet or plex printing machines. Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 742	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:42:00 - [48] - Quote Lets be honest about htis, the general attitude in EVE is ghetto. Flying anything expensive or interesting will get you pounced on and pummelled. :D it is the EVE way :D

ISD LackOfFaith ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1464	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:43:00 - [49] - Quote Spending more money only guarantees victory up to a point. A Formula 1 car will lose a race to a Prius if the Formula 1 has 3 wheels of different sizes and the fourth one is made of solid gold. Even if it uses all the appropriate parts, it will also lose a race to a Prius if the driver has no idea how to drive a Formula 1 car. Another parallel is how dangerous IEDs are in situations like the current Middle Eastern conflict. That is because they are extremely cheap to make, yet they can destroy millions of dollars of top-of-the-line equipment, and lots of lives with it. When there is any sort of "realistic" conflict (which Eve aspires to), spending more money on equipment runs into a point of diminishing returns, and eventually runs into a point of flying something so expensive everyone wants to have the "honor" to destroy it. Because of this, finding the right amount of ISK to spend on a PvP setup, and what that setup is, is integral to PvP. If you want to be reckless and charge at everything you have even a minuscule chance of defeating, it doesn't make sense to waste money on T2 or faction fittings, because you'd lose so much money. If, on the other hand, you plan to only take fights you are 99.99% sure of winning, and have fallback solutions like a standby Falcon, you can afford to blow billions on a single ship to squeeze every last bit of effectiveness out of it, knowing you are not going to lose it easily. Consider the following questions: what is the least amount of ISK I need to spend to accomplish this particular task, be it PvP or PvE? What ship/modules are most appropriate for this? How easily can I get hunted down? Knowing that, is the price OK? Are the diminishing returns from spending more on the ship still acceptable in the context of how quickly I may blow up? Yes, certain ships are going to be unfeasible to be flown in high-risk PvP. A blinged-out Bhaalgorn is a terrible solo ship, and only shines in fleets. Is that really a problem, though? If price translated into effectiveness and one 10 billion ISK battleship could take on thirty 300 million ISK battleships, does that mean it should take 300 people to take on 10 people in super-expensive battleships? Just some food for thought based on the OP. tl;dr: Eve doesn't scale linearly in almost any aspect. Manpower and tactics trump ISK spending in most cases. Does that really need to change? ISD LackOfFaith Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

LHA Tarawa Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 1036	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:55:00 - [50] - Quote The ONLY reason for a fit like that is to 1-v-1 duel and hope the opponent doesn't cheat, and that you don't get ganked for the drops. For missioning, go to the bigger hull, and upgrade your implants long before you pimp the mods... people can't kill you for implant drops. For PvP, more friends with cheaper ships wins over fewer better ships most of the time. Stay cheap-ish and be prepared to replace the cheap ships a lot.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 6137	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:00:00 - [51] - Quote So, am I completely off base here, or is the TL;DR actually something like this? "Waah, I can't use my purple epics because someone would kill me for them and I can't afford more of them" Is that what anyone else got out of this? I can't manage to interpret it any other way. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 4234	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:00:00 - [52] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: Lets be honest about htis, the general attitude in EVE is prison. Flying anything expensive or interesting will get you pounced on and pummelled. :D it is the EVE way :D Dont drop your can in the meteor-shower "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á *FREE THE JITA 1*
Otin Bison Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd 7	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:07:00 - [53] - Quote Chopper Rollins wrote: Yim Sei wrote: What this also means is 99% of combat pilots in eve will never, ever engage unless the odds are stacked completely in their favour. This stat is made up. 86.42% of all stats are made up at the time they are written.
Mocam EVE University Ivy League 437	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:23:00 - [54] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: So, am I completely off base here, or is the TL;DR actually something like this? "Waah, I can't use my purple epics because someone would kill me for them and I can't afford more of them" Is that what anyone else got out of this? I can't manage to interpret it any other way. Not really - what he's talking about is something even more hideous and heinous than that old stuff. PvP arenas. The ability to have a controlled area to go fight -- like alliance tournaments do; only for much cheaper and available to everyone -- using just what is agreed upon by the participants. It's come up many times in the past and every time it's brought up, there's a sh** storm of outraged screams about the notion.
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 1870	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:43:00 - [55] - Quote ISD LackOfFaith wrote: tl;dr: Eve doesn't scale linearly in almost any aspect. Manpower and tactics trump ISK spending in most cases. Does that really need to change? My faith is no longer lacking. Thank you, sir. Do you by any chance still actively participate in our prison yard shenanigans where shivs made of toothbrushes and few friends can do wonders? Or that is just a reminiscence from good old times when CCP rules didn't prevent you from messing up other people space pixels? I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Shey Nabali Collapsed Out Shadow Cartel 10	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:47:00 - [56] - Quote I regularly fly around in hilariously blinged out ships. And fight in them. And quite often die in them. I consider it my service to the eve community to periodically provide content in the form of silly killmails.
Kirobacsi Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:03:00 - [57] - Quote This entire thread is full of fail
Daerrol Lumen et Umbra The Silent One's 6	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:19:00 - [58] - Quote YESTERDAY I FLY IN SYNDICATE! THERE 12 RUSSIA AND SOME BULGARIA WITH BAITRON. I FLY BLINGY CRUSADER. T2 HULL, T2 GUNS AND DED MWD!! I SHOOT BAITRON AND KILL AS ENEMY FLEET LANDS. I SEE ARES. I SCARED BUT DED MICROWARP GOSU GOSU I RUN AWAY!! FACTIIN BLING YISSS JESUS AND DED SAVE RUS TAKE DAMAGE.
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:24:00 - [59] - Quote Chopper Rollins wrote: The very phrase "fair fight" is a nasty idea put in children's heads that makes them miserable when they have to compete. A fair contest is a coin toss, a fight is won before it starts because there's more to it than what you bring. Victors write the story of the fight and surprisingly they are always the good guy. Dueling area would ruin eve, get on sisi with some friends and play silly. Totally agree, there is no fair fights and should not be, and especialy in Eve it is very much about determining if your odds are reasonably better when deciding to engage... Intel in that sense is most often in favor of the defenders, which makes sense. I think the OP point though is that the game mechanics are too much tilted toward numerical advantage, and once escalation happens the only outcome possible is loss, regardless of your fit/skill/.... There is no game mechanics, currently, to make piling up bodies more challenging. All dangerous space in Eve is under a constant player created intel system. This is fine, but it is also the main cause why any shiny ships will immediately attract a lot of sharks coming for the kills, most of them simply to put their own ping on the killboard at nearly zero risk to them once the frenzy has started. The game design mechanic should just make blood frenzy a little bit more difficult to coordinate to give the prey some kind of chances to escape once the frenzy has started.
Yim Sei Watchers of Tartarus 152	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:25:00 - [60] - Quote Amazing how many either cant read, cant be bothered to read or just dont understand the OP and all my subsequent posts so try to change it to what they wish the thread was about so they can troll it. Pretty desperate. If you think this is about PvP arenas (a terrible idea) or player skill (nowhere near) or WoW purple items (?? really playing the 'I hate WoW so I'm all cool' card?? ) then I would invite you to try again. Its more about the inherent manipulation in the balance of items (ships / modules / items ) to create a manufactured social sphere mimicking a sandbox. I guess I really want 'the butterfly effect' and the multitude of ship fit options as promised and not the time, isk and theorycrafting wasted because most just want to hide in a blob, or gank those who cant fight back. I want to fit a ship that I can take on an adventure using intelligent fits to suit my purpose and not run into blue controlled space blobs all crowded around gates with their fingers ready on F1 I want to think out of the box and fly a ship which actually follows the 'rock, paper, scissors' analogy rather than 'single barracuda versus 30 pirahnas at every time. Can anyone actually understand this ?, or are you happy with your fake PvP, Your 500 kills with 490 of them in 50 man gangs and 10 of them against ventures? I a Wheres the butterfly effect? Whats the point in having all these modules and ships when they mean nothing? Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts.

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