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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.05.29 18:54:00 -
[1]
Look, we now have Carriers and Titans and all sorts of big fancy gang-based ships.
These kinda leaves poor little T2 Cruiser Logistics ships out of the running.
Here are a few points:
 A player is 99% of the time more useful in a BS than in a Logistics ship
They dont remote repair very much at all, certainly not enough to keep more than 1 or 2 (at best) ships alive.
People who fly them seriously (like myself) have sacrificed HUNDREDS of killmails for the benefit of my gang mates. I believe the things we give up to fly logistics ships arent justified by their abilities. They should rep more, and be MORE resilient.
Remote repairing modules are wildly unbalanced. Half of the Named and T2 logisitcs modules arent even IN THE GAME YET! Why do logistics pilots have to be shafted here? We pay our subscription fees too, ya know...
They arent cool enough.
They arent BIG enough. We want BIGGER logistics ships. T2 Battlecruiser and BS sized Logistics ships would be a great and tactifully useful addition to EVE, while giving Logistics pilots a chance to fly decent and useful ships too.
Check this out, developers!
Mucho love,
Den
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Qolde
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Posted - 2006.05.29 19:06:00 -
[2]
Logistics ships do look pretty useless imo. I know how to fix them!!! Give them mines!!!!
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.05.29 22:39:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Denrace
Look, we now have Carriers and Titans and all sorts of big fancy gang-based ships.
These kinda leaves poor little T2 Cruiser Logistics ships out of the running.
Here are a few points:
A player is 99% of the time more useful in a BS than in a Logistics ship
They dont remote repair very much at all, certainly not enough to keep more than 1 or 2 (at best) ships alive.
People who fly them seriously (like myself) have sacrificed HUNDREDS of killmails for the benefit of my gang mates. I believe the things we give up to fly logistics ships arent justified by their abilities. They should rep more, and be MORE resilient.
Remote repairing modules are wildly unbalanced. Half of the Named and T2 logisitcs modules arent even IN THE GAME YET! Why do logistics pilots have to be shafted here? We pay our subscription fees too, ya know...
They arent cool enough.
They arent BIG enough. We want BIGGER logistics ships. T2 Battlecruiser and BS sized Logistics ships would be a great and tactifully useful addition to EVE, while giving Logistics pilots a chance to fly decent and useful ships too.
Check this out, developers!
Mucho love,
Den
To be honest, carriers and motherships are really logistics ships, but there should be a middle ground.
BSs are more useful in fleet ops true, but smaller operations it's really a tossup, depending on the logistics strength.
I agree, remote repairers and shield transfers should repair a lot more then they currently do, or introduce larger ships to take advantage of largers repairers.
My Guides (Recomended Reading) |
Talori'i
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Posted - 2006.05.29 22:52:00 -
[4]
I think they need a few bonuses.
Cap Usage Bonus, Less cap used for reppers, increases for each level of logistics.
Powergrid and CPU usage lowered for everything up to large remote reppers(not the capital sized modules.)
Repair amount increased for remote reppers.
maybe a bonus for the speed at which they rep.
Couple more slots in the mids and lows maybe to increase their own tanking ability, or add modules that boost remote reppers effectivness so that logistics can either decide to fight near the front line although on the front line is probably still out of the question.
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lofty29
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Posted - 2006.05.29 23:05:00 -
[5]
UREKA!!11!!11one
Everyones moaning about how Tech 2 bs's will be uber heavy assault battleships with 2000 DPS and 99% res's to all. Why not make them ubertanked logistics ships? That would definately give them a role!
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I wanna be dev-jacked  |
Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.05.29 23:22:00 -
[6]
Who's to say the tier 2 battlecruisers won't fill this role somewhat?
I'd be in favor of beefier logistics ships, as well. Maybe just give them fitting bonuses so they can use battleship-class support modules with range and cap bonuses. Let me put a heavy shield transfer array on my Basilisk and cut the cap requirement for it, and it'll be a viable choice for combat.
As it stands, logistics ships are a pretty good complement to HACs and Recon ships, since they can be juiced up fairly well by cruiser-sized modules. And frigs, of course, get topped off almost immediately by a logistics ship.
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Sjet'sa
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Posted - 2006.05.30 04:57:00 -
[7]
Um ...
... am I the only person who has noticed that the skills required to pilot a Fleet Command Ship (Tech-2 Battlecruiser) are Logistics skills? Sure, they don't remote armor repair, but they provide significant gang bonuses. I think more direct logistics would be good, and the cruisers should certainly gain many more bonuses (reduced CPU/Grid of transporters, more reduced cap use, more slots) but the world of support has not totally been shoved aside.
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Shreven Bulks
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Posted - 2006.05.30 11:59:00 -
[8]
If CCP releases another pure logistics ship, I am going to cry. Any battleship with a remote mod bonus of any kind would be criminal.
They went a long way towards making logistics cruisers more useful than they were at release, but they do need something more, or some big changes in fleet combat before logi ships will be useful there. I'm still convinced they all need a useful, NON-module based gang-bonus. Tracking, magazine size, weapon cap use, agility, reload time...something.
btw, you can fit and run indefinetly 4 large shield transpos and a remote tracking link on a scimitar.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.30 12:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: lofty29
UREKA!!11!!11one
Everyones moaning about how Tech 2 bs's will be uber heavy assault battleships with 2000 DPS and 99% res's to all. Why not make them ubertanked logistics ships? That would definately give them a role!
Well yea, a logistics BS COULD have assualt resists without breaking the game :P
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Prescience
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Posted - 2006.05.31 21:05:00 -
[10]
*Bump*
WHO said EVE had to be FAIR??
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.05.31 23:03:00 -
[11]
Developers, what do you think?
Den
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Zothike
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Posted - 2006.06.01 11:36:00 -
[12]
a simple/good solution to make them much more usefull would make them thev only ship able to use remote structure repairer modules
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.06.01 11:39:00 -
[13]
good idea perhaps between BC and BS sized.
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Chickeneye
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Posted - 2006.06.01 14:34:00 -
[14]
Give the logistics cruisers (large) drone bays - this would mean that pilots could either load up wioth combat drones, to get a couple of precious killmails or throw in the suuport and/or ECM drones that are about now. A full load of large armour repair drones can keep a ship alive under an enormous amount of firepower, this means that they can look after more ships at once, or a single ship to an even greater extent. And in return for some nice shiny drones, remove ALL weapon hardpoints and increase resistances, make them purely defensive.
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First Magestic
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:51:00 -
[15]
Giving Logistics ships bonuses for drones that offer Shield or Armour repair would be very usefull, I like that idea 
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Synapse Archae
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Posted - 2006.06.09 16:07:00 -
[16]
See the post in my signature. Logistics ships should not have to tank to fight. There are other ways to make support ships work.
And yes, I fly an oneiros, and I only use it for boosting friends tracking when doing long range gatecamps.
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http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=349194&page=1Redo Fleets[/ur |
Sanctus Maleficus
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Posted - 2006.06.09 16:44:00 -
[17]
I'm all for bigger logistic ships as well, and eventually wish to work towards a Damnation and still run some remote stuff on it anyway, along witht he 3 gang assist modules.
I did do some testing with just an Augorer the other day, and found that I can transfer up to 64 cap /sec steady if I use Booster 800's.
Now, what can someone do with that? Well, I can almost fully support three Large Armor REpairers running on someones ship without them having to worry about cap.
I think it comes down to that support cruisers can make a difference in say, 8 to 20 or so sized fleets, but anything bigger, things die fast enough to not really make much of a difference, in terms of "healing". However I think a lot of bigger ships could run some radical setups if they didn't have to worry about cap sustainment.
So in conclusion, I think that maybe there is some hidden usefulness in the current ships, but its going to be hard to track down.
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Lagar
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Posted - 2006.06.09 16:52:00 -
[18]
the real issue about Tech 2 BS is beceause peeps are worried that
1. their resistance will make a 3 T2 BS fleet a nearly unstopeable force (not likly)
2. posibly having HAC resistance (higly unlikly beceause they would literly make level 4 agent missions as easy (probebly easier) than ever before.
remember that Tech 2 ships are more specialized than the previus one... NOT nessisarly better all around...
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Synapse Archae
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Posted - 2006.06.09 16:56:00 -
[19]
The big problem with all these specialized ships in a fleet is that the game makes no way for them to be protected by their fleet. Essentially the gang system puts everyone on the front lines, and the result is that you only see ships that can either A) soak up dammage (BS, T2BCs) or B) be replaced easily (frigs)
This means that all kinds of cruisers, and in fact even weak BSs, are left out of combat because they are too exposed.
A way to put your support ships behind your front line ships, again see in my sig, would allow all sort of innovative fleet support ships and setups to be used.
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http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=349194&page=1Redo Fleets[/ur |
James Don
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Posted - 2006.06.10 09:18:00 -
[20]
Ive thought for a while that Large Remote Reps need a home, I am a logistics pilot too and would like to help out my gang more so my suggestion is this.
Base it on a Dominix with the same remote rep bonuses as for onineros it would then be more fiesable to support different gang members in different ways i.e. some armour rep, some shield transfer and some energy transfer.
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notify : Your cloaking systems are unable to activate due to your ship being within 2000 meters of the nearby Snowballs. |
Lady Marie
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Posted - 2006.06.13 12:19:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Lady Marie on 13/06/2006 12:20:35
I would love the idea of a T3 Logistics Crusier
High Shild and Armour resists
Lots of Cap 4,000 Base
Be able to fit four LARGE Armour Repairers or Six Large Shield Transfers.
Have 6 Mid Slots
Have 7 Low slots
Bonuses for the range would allow ships to be repaired up to 70 Km away.
Now that would make fights last longer.
AND have a large enough drone bay for up to 6 Shield or Armour Repair drones with bonuses.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.06.27 11:31:00 -
[22]
*bump*
Den
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.27 12:40:00 -
[23]
Slight issue: If you make T2 BS logistics, you make the T2 logistics cruisers...a little obselete. They'd need their role altering soemwhat so they were still useful in some situations.
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Lagar
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Posted - 2006.06.27 15:47:00 -
[24]
only logistics ship i can se being anywhere remotly usefull would be a large shield boosting ship... ex.. repairing an outposts shields.. other than that i cant se to much the point of it.. sorry 
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Prescience
Gallente
XERCORE
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Posted - 2006.12.05 11:15:00 -
[25]
*Bump*
I feel this issue still needs addressing. CCP has a MINIMUM two types of ship for each class, with two variants for the T2. Logistics still hasn't been looked at, despite many threads. Its such a rarely used skill unless you're flying the cruisers or the battlecruisers and you cant do repairing with the BCs. I fly both the Oneiros and the Basilisk and they are amazing, I can keep a couple of battleships tanked as well as a a bc or a few frigs. The onieros sucks as a repper, not enough cap, despite good skills and expensive mods. Please put this to rest one way or another CCP.
Thanks.
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WHO said EVE had to be FAIR??
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Noveron
Caldari
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.05 12:49:00 -
[26]
Imo, to make the actual logistics ships usefull. they should be upgraded so people uses them again. I trained a lot for the basilisk and I hardly ever needed it.. plus its a weak ship.
I dont want any more ships.. but to make this ones sexy enough for people to keep interested on them.
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Amda Portisse
The Phoenix Rising
Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.05 15:57:00 -
[27]
I've been flying Logistics for some time, and I'll still choose them in a fleet op. They are alot cheaper (between 1/3 - 1/8 of the price) than other T2 cruisers (loads cheaper than BS's) and in a fight of 5-10 are really really useful. With logistics 5 a Guardian can throw energy at over 70km and a basilisk can throw shield at over 55km. The most useful I've found them is as THE support ship for frigate ops.
I don't necesarrily agree with the need for a bigger BC logistics ship (their small size (sig radius same as destroyer) is one of the plus points of their build. I'd always be in favour of maybe a slight increase in their abilities (i.e, increased range still, or yes, a full amount of med and large modules on the market) tho.
The problem of logistics is not logistics at all. And from what I've read I think the Devs are aware of this. The problem is Blobs and 20+ gank fleets and massive fleet ranges. It doesn't matter what your flying or really the specific makeup of your fleet. If you get called primary your time is up.
The devs are aware of this I think and in time I wouldn't be surprised if it was addressed in a very drastic way.
In the meantime, I reckon use our brains and use logistics in specific ideal situations. In support of frig fleets, or yeh, for repping POS's (Basi), or use a Scimitar to make that sniper camp even more deadly. Or even fit 8 named heavy neutralizers on an Apoc (supported by a guardian at 70k) and simoultaneously insta-drain the cap out of the first 4 cruisers that jump into your gate camp... And there's more possibilities...
Basically, it would be great to be able to use these ships as fleet-worthy rep-boats, but until CCP get round to seriously changing the whole way fleet warfare works, this just isn't going to be happen. So we need to get use to the idea that they are niche ships, for particular tactical situations, and use them appropriately.
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The Phoenix Rising |
Prescience
Gallente
XERCORE
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Posted - 2006.12.06 11:45:00 -
[28]
Well balanced and insightful, thanks for that. I agree now :)
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WHO said EVE had to be FAIR??
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.12.06 14:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: James Don
Ive thought for a while that Large Remote Reps need a home, I am a logistics pilot too and would like to help out my gang more so my suggestion is this.
Base it on a Dominix with the same remote rep bonuses as for onineros it would then be more fiesable to support different gang members in different ways i.e. some armour rep, some shield transfer and some energy transfer.
Faction DOMI!!!
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The BIG Lottery |
Prescience
Gallente
XERCORE
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Posted - 2006.12.06 18:08:00 -
[30]
Eh? I fit 2 large and 1 med on my Oneiros... I can run them without any worries. Hmm, let me know your setups over evemail, maybe I can help (if you like)
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WHO said EVE had to be FAIR??
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