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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
62
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Wow, that's a pretty terrible nerf to JF.
So, the cost for a jF is now higher due to the need for t2 capital cargo rigs, their agility is worse, and you want to double/triple/quadruple (really, the sky is the limit here) fuel costs for them.
I'm really not impressed. Any nerf to JF is a direct nerf to 0.0, and more severe the further out you go. With no apparent thrust from CCP to decrease highsec dependency of 0.0, I don't quite get what this is supposed to accomplish. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
64
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:So, what's better: Resistance rigs or trimarks for my Providence? Kinetic or thermal or explosive? Decisions, decisions.
Hull rigs (if released) and implants. It's a no-brainer, really. Has always been. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
65
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Batolemaeus wrote:Abrazzar wrote:So, what's better: Resistance rigs or trimarks for my Providence? Kinetic or thermal or explosive? Decisions, decisions. Hull rigs (if released) and implants. It's a no-brainer, really. Has always been. even with the reduced hull values?
Rigs add a percentage value. The providence has 2.5 as much hull as armor and a t1 resist profile. So yeah, it's not even a contest unless you fly around with a maxed armor boost alt. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
66
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote: Yes we will be making more things there
How exactly?
Am I supposed to extract non-local isotopes from my behind? Will non-local T2 materials into being? Found a praying circle to wish for a divine delivery of non-local rig parts? Perform a summoning of faction modules? Sacrifice a newbie in hopes for plentiful datacore harvest? Wish for decryptors? |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
66
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nightingale Actault wrote: Additionally, and off that topic, I believe these changes are also a great way to increase the viability of localized nullsec manufacturing. If less items are being JF into nullsec it will give greater opportunity for those items to be created locally at profitable levels.
I did a short look through my "shipping manifests" in recent times. About 10% of my cargo could have been produced in 0.0. Mostly ships and some ammo.
So...how exactly is this supposed to improve 0.0 manufacturing? |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
66
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Buzz Dura wrote:double nerf for JF... Fuel cost goes up in one thread and now cargo and align time is nerfed...
So nox for the same volume, i will pay more and in certain case i will need a second trip... yes and a big boost to local 0.0 markets... crazy eh?
Explain how. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
66
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Posted - 2014.05.17 18:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nightingale Actault wrote:
With the increases to cost per m3 to JF materials from HS to NS, especially low value materials such as tritanium, the localized ore gathered becomes increasingly viable to use in and around the area where it is gathered.
Nobody used a JF to move trit. We use mineral compression. Which has always been efficient enough that it was only needed for t1 heavy doctrines. Demand for those (and for caps) far outstrips what you can mine without continuous interruption and without the huge expenses involved with moving ore from refinery to manufacturing outpost.
The bulk of my cargo is and has always been things that can not be built locally. Or, to just quote myself:
just a few pages back I wrote: Am I supposed to extract non-local isotopes from my behind? Will non-local T2 materials into being? Found a praying circle to wish for a divine delivery of non-local rig parts? Perform a summoning of faction modules? Sacrifice a newbie in hopes for plentiful datacore harvest? Wish for decryptors?
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
71
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Again: I like this change and I believe it will revitalize industry in nullsec, which is very much needed.
The components for just about any t2 item are of higher volume than the end product. The components have to imported no matter what.
So, you don't know much about 0.0 industry, do you? |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
72
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: All add up to weaning 0.0 off the teat of all imports, all the time. No, the announced changes on the table don't do this in one fell swoop, because that would be really silly.
I would agree with you if this was actually what CCP was doing. But the order of changes is backwards.
First, the components for 0.0 industry need to be available. That is, resources for rigs and t2 production and fuel. All of those are heavily regional, as you might be aware.
If it was possible to produce effectively in 0.0 I'd be doing it already. Spending 120M per jf roundtrip plus two accounts worth of cynoalts is kind of expensive.
Imports won't cease or reduce by raising costs for importing when it is literally impossible to replace importing with production. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
72
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: I mean, you are right, but you're right because CCP are taking baby-steps rather than laying out every change at once. On a longer timeline, nothing you are mentioning is a problem that can't be addressed, and some are ultimately good things if you see them another way.
I'd be on board with the changes to the JF if the order of changes was different.
Also, you're putting way too much trust in CCP's ability to iterate. They have an absolutely dreadful track record. *cough*Dominion*cough* |
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
73
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Posted - 2014.05.17 20:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: This is certainly valid criticism of what it seems CCP are trying to do, but I'm not prepared to be a raving opponent to all change because I can't guarantee it will always work out best for me. If anything, in this case I am rather hopeful of good systemic changes, as CCP are definitely slow-cooking these changes.
I'd rather support the changes than adopt a very defeatist "CCP won't get it right, so why change anything" style position.
Don't you think enabling 0.0 and especially deep 0.0 ability to produce locally should come before nerfing importing?
I try to have a realistic outlook on things, and with the glacial speed of CCP, I'd prefer they fix A before they nerf B which A depends on.
Change away as much as you want, but make sure players actually have a way to adapt. There's no way not to import currently, so fix that, then hurt importing if it hasn't already diminished by itself. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
74
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Posted - 2014.05.17 20:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:[
Its to stop us shipping capitals into jita.
Increasing repackaged values of capital ships and sov upgrade mods is one sql query away. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
77
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Posted - 2014.05.17 22:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: This is entrenched logic. It means you can import, or you can go fight the person you're buying from for the resources instead.
You spelt "and" wrong. Unless you have found a magical teleportation technique that can move isotopes from regions on the other side of the map to the region where they are needed. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
77
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Posted - 2014.05.17 22:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote: i thought JFs were the magical teleportation technique used to move things from one side of eve, to the other?
Sure, if you ignore all the things that make them not a magical teleportation technique, like the fuel cost, the need for a dozen cyno alts and the soul crushing annoyances of logistics. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
80
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Posted - 2014.05.17 22:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:actually something i'm genuinely curious about.
since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?
If I spent my time shouting down all the stupid "ideas" being posted all the time I would've probably killed someone and gotten locked away in an asylum for the criminally insane by now. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
103
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Posted - 2014.05.18 09:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:I hate ganking, but If this idiocy will hit TQ I will start bumping day and night every freighter that will pass Uedama and Niarja until people will stop hauling and all industry will go to hell. i like that you're ambitious, but i think bumping freighters in 1 high sec system isn't likely to cause a shutdown of industry. I have to test this on SISI, but I'm pretty sure that I can bounce on 4-5 freighters at once preventing them to warp away. If more than 2-3 people do this, they could completely shut down a choke point as Uedama. It would be hilarious to do the bumping with a Prospect.
Bannable offense mate. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
116
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Posted - 2014.05.18 13:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quote: Seagull: Enablers are the people who make the logistics for these large-scale things actually work. They are people who run mad spreadsheets to organize production lines for war efforts, they are people who manage roles and membership of big corporations and alliances, they build tools to do different tasks. And we kind of have a history of treating these people likeGǪ****. We put these people through a lot of painful, unnecessary work.
Seagull: The approach that I want to take, is that if we look at these people and design exciting things for them, and make their lives less like hell doing the things they want to do anyway, that will create all kinds of interesting dynamics in EVE Online as a world.
CSM Winter 2012 Summit Minutes |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
163
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Posted - 2014.05.19 19:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marc Rene wrote: I can understand the changes to jump freighters to a certain extent, as this is an attempt to force people to source locally
Local production without local resources. You are a funny guy. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
164
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Posted - 2014.05.19 20:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:S1euth wrote:Does anyone actually find internet spaceship truck driving fun in this game? Why nerf something to ensure more time is spent doing something that is not enjoyable?!
This is an opportunity to make the game more fun. I would be very interested in hearing how you propose to make hauling "more fun". Do elaborate on that.
You make hauling more fun by making it take less time. This is a zero sum game. Less time spent hauling is more time spent actually having fun in the game.
How about supplying a small roaming gang worth of people shouldn't take up my entire evening so that I can't even fly with them.
A quick jita supply run takes me about 4 hours in total. This nerf makes it take even longer. Supplying people has taken over so much of my play time that I've long burnt out and I haven't found much willpower to still fleet up. One thing will have to go. Judging by the atrocious attrition rate for logistics people, most people just quit entirely...
Logistics needs a boost. It should be easier to supply people. I don't care what has to be changed to do this, but giving line members in 0.0 the ability to source resources locally would be a nice step. Local productions jobs are much easier to go through if I could just set and forget buyorders for everything I need. I can stomach regular redeployments, but the current state of the empire umbilical cord is terrible. |
Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
165
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Posted - 2014.05.19 20:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:this is true.
missions also take too long and are boring. let me run missions faster but make the same amount of money per mission. what could go wrong.
Mining too falls into this scenario. increase my yield and lower cycle rate. i is good a economics :3
These are not equivalent. |
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
165
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Posted - 2014.05.19 20:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
NickSuccorso wrote: Eve was so much more fun before the introduction of jump bridges and jump freighters. People had to mine and build things locally. That meant there were players in the asteroid belts, hauling things through gates, out in space!
It wasn't.
Freighter convoys were such a crappy experience that people rushed to get their cargorevs in place. I lost so many hours to that boring tripe, and I don't want it back ever again. As soon as titan bridges were in game, people rushed to get them to ease logistics and reduce attrition rates on their people.
Also, this isn't 2006 anymore. The standard to be competitive is t2, because CCP made t2 that much more powerful than t1. That means you either have t2 or you perish. Pandora's Box has been opened many years ago, you aren't going to reverse it now. T2 means importing. Always. If you don't, you die. |
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