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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10056
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey everyone, here's the skinny on the rebalance to Freighters and Jump Freighters. As we announced at the Fanfest keynote, a big part of this rebalance is the ability to use rigs.
To compensate for the ability to use rigs, the base capacity of all Freighters and Jump Freighters is going down, by between 27 and 30%. This means that Freighters can get significantly higher maximum capacity than before using rigs, and we're increasing the volume of packaged capital ships (to 1.3 million m3) and unpackaged station containers (to 2 million m3) to compensate. Because Jump Freighters only have two rig slots their maximum cargo is only going to be about 4% higher than current (with T2 rigs) and with T1 cargo rigs their cargo holds will be between 4 and 7% smaller than current.
Base HP is dropping on all of these ships, but by a much smaller percentage than cargo. They are gaining armor and shield, and losing some hull. This is especially noticeable on the JFs, which are now getting racial T2 resists to armor and shield at the same level as Marauders. The extra resists mean that Jump Freighters end up with about the same EHP as before.
PROVIDENCE
Amarr Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Maximum Velocity
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 0L; Rigs: 3(+3) Slots, 400 Calibration, Uses Capital Rigs Fittings: 1 PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 5000 / 36000(+12000) / 92500(-20000) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 70 / 0.0625 / 1,237,500,000 / 107.22s / 1.37 Cargo Capacity: 530000(-205000)m3
CHARON
Caldari Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Maximum Velocity
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 0L; Rigs: 3(+3) Slots, 400 Calibration, Uses Capital Rigs Fittings: 1 PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 15000(+9000) / 20000 / 87500(-18750) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 60 / 0.0625 / 1,320,000,000 / 114.37s / 1.37 Cargo Capacity: 550000(-235000)m3
OBELISK
Gallente Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Maximum Velocity
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 0L; Rigs: 3(+3) Slots, 400 Calibration, Uses Capital Rigs Fittings: 1 PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000(+2687) / 30000(+7500) / 97500(-22500) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 65 / 0.0625 / 1,292,500,000 / 111.99s / 1.37 Cargo Capacity: 540000(-210000)m3
FENRIR
Minmatar Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Maximum Velocity
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 0L; Rigs: 3(+3) Slots, 400 Calibration, Uses Capital Rigs Fittings: 1 PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 10000(+4375) / 28000(+6750) / 82500(-17500) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 80 / 0.0625 / 1,127,500,000 / 97.69s / 1.37 Cargo Capacity: 520000(-200000)m3
ARK
Amarr Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Agility
Jump Freighters Bonus per level: +10% to shield, armor and hull hitpoints -10% jump fuel requirements
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 0L; Rigs: 2(+2) Slots, 400 Calibration, Uses Capital Rigs Fittings: 1 PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6000 / 43200(+14400) / 111000(-24000) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 47.5(+7.5) / 62.5(+12.5) Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 34.375(+9.375) / 40(+20) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 84 / 0.0625(+0.0125) / 900,000,000 / 77.98(+15.6)s / 1.5 Signature Radius: 2800(-12) Cargo Capacity: 199000(-76625)m3
RHEA
Caldari Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Agility
Jump Freighters Bonus per level: +10% to shield, armor and hull hitpoints -10% jump fuel requirements
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 0L; Rigs: 2(+2) Slots, 400 Calibration, Uses Capital Rigs Fittings: 1 PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 18000(+10800) / 24000 / 105000(-22500) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 40(+20) / 47.5(+7.5) / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 58.75(+13.75) / 34.375(+9.375) / 10 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 72 / 0.0625(+0.0125) / 960,000,000 / 83.18(+16.64)s / 1.5 Signature Radius: 2930(-2) Cargo Capacity: 207000(-87375)m3
ANSHAR
Gallente Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Agility
Jump Freighters Bonus per level: +10% to shield, armor and hull hitpoints -10% jump fuel requirements
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 0L; Rigs: 2(+2) Slots, 400 Calibration, Uses Capital Rigs Fittings: 1 PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9600(+3224.4) / 36000(+9000) / 117000(-27000) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 30(+10) / 55(+15) / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 43.125(+8.125) / 51.25(+16.25) / 10 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 78 / 0.0625(+0.0125) / 940,000,000 / 81.44(+16.28)s / 1.5 Signature Radius: 2880(-4) Cargo Capacity: 203000(-78250) m3
NOMAD
Minmatar Freighter Bonus per level: +5% Cargo Capacity +5% Agility
Jump Freighters Bonus per level: +10% to shield, armor and hull hitpoints -10% jump fuel requirements
Slot layout: 0H, 0M, 0L; Rigs: 2(+2) Slots, 400 Calibration, Uses Capital Rigs Fittings: 1 PWG, 1 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12000(+5250) / 33600(+8100) / 99000(-21000) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 25(+25) / 30(+10) / 40 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 70(+10) / 43.125(+8.125) / 25 / 10 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time / warp speed): 96 / 0.0625(+0.0125) / 820,000,000 / 71.05(+14.21)s / 1.5 Signature Radius: 2700(-8) Cargo Capacity: 195000(-75000)m3
Let us know what you think! Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Karen Avioras
Unsung Heroes The Volition Cult
618
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
This looks great! |
Chinicata Shihari
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
26
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Looks okay. Not as bad as we thought they would be. Prepare for destruction either way |
Lazei
Magellanic Itg Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
How are overloaded cargoholds handled when the patch hits for people who had logged off in space with full pre patch cargos? Tough luck that they didn't read patch notes? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
590
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ouch -- that agility nerf on Jump Freighters is going to suck some. What's the thought process behind that? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
558
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Paper thin freighters MINILUV ACTIVATE The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21774
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
SeeGǪ there was a reason why I was against rigs on freighters from the very startGǪ
T2 capital rigs and a significant reduction in survivability requried and/or speed to get them back to where they were. Gee thanks. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Retar Aveymone
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
366
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
man someone doesn't like jump freighters very much :v: |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10058
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tippia wrote:SeeGǪ there was a reason why I was against rigs on freighters from the very startGǪ T2 capital rigs and a significant reduction in survivability requried and/or speed to get them back to where they were. Gee thanks.
T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21774
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values. Yes, but I fly a JF. I picked it because of its nippy align speed, good tank, and descent-enough cargo hold.
I can restore one of those at a massive cost. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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CynoNet Two
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
622
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why are jump freighters with T1 cargo rigs worse off than now? Even T2 rigs only gives a very small improvement.
How come the fairly pointless speed bonus on T1 freighters was left, rather being replaced with something more useful like agility or HP? |
Steijn
Quay Industries
477
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
sorry, but that is nothing more than a massive nerf. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
1028
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Tippia wrote:SeeGǪ there was a reason why I was against rigs on freighters from the very startGǪ T2 capital rigs and a significant reduction in survivability requried and/or speed to get them back to where they were. Gee thanks. T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values.
That wasn't the point. No one thought that getting rigs would leave us with a lower cargobay. The reason people argued against was that you would end up with the same bay but a lower tank. Plus the cost of rigs. Still idc really just need to work out what cargo bay i need and then slam warp speed rigs on. The JF agility nerf if going to be really annoying though. Only 2 rigs to make up the agility and cargo loss and just eat the tank loss i suppose. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10060
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tippia wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values. Yes, but I fly a JF. I picked it because of its nippy align speed, good tank, and descent-enough cargo hold. I can restore one of those at a massive cost.
Actually the tank on your JF is about the same as before, thanks to the extra resists. So you get one of the three for free!
But yes, the fact that this is a small reduction in Jump Freighter power is completely intended. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3421
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
I guess this is a direct nerf to null-high-null import/export, together with the increase in jump fuel consumption. At least you can produce directly in null now. Time to import some miners. Mineral hauler spawn elimination next? Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
399
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
It seems that you really hate freighters and jump freighters. Noted. Now just make it so that jump freighters cannot jump drive out of high sec and the circle of rage will be complete. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Retar Aveymone
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
366
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Tippia wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:T1 rigs are easily enough to bring normal freighters above their current cargo values. Yes, but I fly a JF. I picked it because of its nippy align speed, good tank, and descent-enough cargo hold. I can restore one of those at a massive cost. Actually the tank on your JF is about the same as before, thanks to the extra resists. So you get one of the three for free! But yes, the fact that this is a small reduction in Jump Freighter power is completely intended. Is the tank the same AFTER the two tech 2 cargo rigs? Because I'm guessing that in practice you get only one of the three, you can just change it based on rig selection. |
Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
22
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
For the JFs can you please also list the fuel consumption per LY and fuel bay size? Ideally clearly indicating whether this is under current fuel consumption mechanics or already accounting for +50% consumption increase?
Overall I'll admit I'm disappointed by this change. Roughly speaking I'll need to add a T1 and a T2 cargo rig to be able to move as much as before. So I'm paying ISK to attach things to my ship, getting the same cargo capacity but less EHP. The shift of HP from hull to armor, overall reduction of HP so that the addition of T2 resists didn't change the overall EHP also increases the impact of the rig armor reduction. For their primary purpose therefore this is a nerf.
The shift of HP away from structure in to the other sections also makes the resist profile more important. With Kin/therm damage the primary type used by gankers I do hope this has been taken in to account.
I like the idea of being able to make trade offs with rigs, I understand having to tone down the impact of the hull rigs to freighter and JF EHP. I don't like the fact that really you are nerfing my starting point without providing me with any significant option to increase the primary purpose - moving large volumes of things.
Currently though I'm underwhelmed and would prefer to not have the options. Focus the time on other ships that need it. |
Paranoid Loyd
479
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
The people have got what they asked for, let the bloodbath begin "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
319
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
What the **** ? That's some dumb changes. |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
590
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Oh -- I think I answered my own question. The JF agility adjustment is meant to compensate for the potential for rigging the Jump Freighter for agility.
My question then becomes "do you think that there is a compelling reason for anyone, ever, to rig for agility?" Jump freighter usage is all about cargo, cargo, cargo. Increasing your cargo reduces the number of trips you have to make, period, which serves to both reduce the amount of fuel you consume and the amount of time you spend running cargo. Messing with the agility only really serves to increase the amount of time you spend doing nothing, without significantly affecting the amount of freight you move.
The only real situation in which you'd want to rig for agility is if you had a habit of jumping to beacons a lot, I guess. Even then, the fuel and time savings of just rigging for cargo would vastly overwhelm the short amount of time you'd save aligning at a beacon. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Tia Hibra
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
So, on one hand, you want to move industry AWAY from the major hubs.
On the other hand, you nerf freighters cargo capacity, requiring capital sized rigs.
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
62
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Wow, that's a pretty terrible nerf to JF.
So, the cost for a jF is now higher due to the need for t2 capital cargo rigs, their agility is worse, and you want to double/triple/quadruple (really, the sky is the limit here) fuel costs for them.
I'm really not impressed. Any nerf to JF is a direct nerf to 0.0, and more severe the further out you go. With no apparent thrust from CCP to decrease highsec dependency of 0.0, I don't quite get what this is supposed to accomplish. |
Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
427
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
This is stupid. You're nerfing all possible attributes to compensate for the ability to improve those attributes with rigs, but you only have two slots and are going to have to pick one (maybe two) of those attributes to improve with said rigs. This is a blatant nerf, and not in a way that makes sense depending on what you are trying to accomplish (e.g. a proper range or cargo reduction). |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21776
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Actually the tank on your JF is about the same as before, thanks to the extra resists. So you get one of the three for free! GǪbut it then gets gutshot by the Nozzle Joints I will have to fit to make it not behave like a drunken cow.
Quote:But yes, the fact that this is a small reduction in Jump Freighter power is completely intended. Figured as much.
Paranoid Loyd wrote:The people have got what they asked for, let the bloodbath begin YeahGǪ again, there's a reason why I've always been against this idea.
Silvetica Dian wrote:That wasn't the point. No one thought that getting rigs would leave us with a lower cargobay. WeeeeellGǪ exactly what it would do and how was always up for grabs, but that you'd end with a net change to the ship that made it worse than before was entirely expected. People just couldn't get that idea through their heads and thought that somehow rigs would only make things better in one area you could pick.
It's exactly what Loyd said GÇö be careful what you ask for and all that. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
124
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
My experience with ships is that no sooner am I ready to use a certain class [not by: sp, by the requirement to use it] as CCP nerfs the ship.
Was it something I said? |
Kaeden Dourhand
Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two
15
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
As if freighters weren't expensive enough, now you have to spend big dolla for capital rigs to make them even remotely useful. Fabulous |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21777
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Querns wrote:Oh -- I think I answered my own question. The JF agility adjustment is meant to compensate for the potential for rigging the Jump Freighter for agility.
My question then becomes "do you think that there is a compelling reason for anyone, ever, to rig for agility?" Jump freighter usage is all about cargo, cargo, cargo. I will, if I keep it (which is questionable).
I picked a JF over a normal freighter for highsec use because it offered higher survivability and faster movement. The higher cargo was pointless since that just made it more worth-while to attack, and I wanted that improved survivability and movement exactly to avoid that problem.
Eternal Error wrote:This is stupid. It is also exactly what was to be expected by anyone who actually engage a couple of neurons on the topic.
Eff it. I'm just going to use this thread to post a big GÇ£I told you so!GÇ¥ snipe on the top of every page. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
1028
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Posted - 2014.05.17 16:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote:My experience with ships is that no sooner am I ready to use a certain class [not by: sp, by the requirement to use it] as CCP nerfs the ship.
Was it something I said? I have only used my JF for one trip to null and back Now this. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
3422
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Posted - 2014.05.17 17:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Everybody! Speculate now in capital rigs! Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
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