Yes, but I fly a JF. I picked it because of its nippy align speed, good tank, and descent-enough cargo hold. I can restore one of those at a massive cost.

I suppose I might as well dump it for a regular freighter with hull rigs GÇö it should end up with about the same, or slightly better, performance than what I get out of the old 7bn crate. Ah well, it's had a good life and it certainly simplifies the training for the hauling alt I was considering.

Low slots are even more problematic than rigs, and would require even larger reductions in base cargo/HP. Then you would be whining even more.

Freighter pilots were asking CCP over and over for the ability to fit rigs, and they got it. Now suddenly this is the worst change ever.

This is the worst change I could have ever imagined. With these changes, the Fenrir is now the weakest, smallest cargo freighter. You've basically made it useless.

You are taking frail, sitting ducks, that cost 1.5 billion ISK without rigs, and making them even frailer sitting ducks....with less cargo capacity. This is not balance, this is insanity. Freightering goods around New Eden is a very risky job. When people asked for rigs, they didn't want to have to use rigs to get back to the place where they were, but with more ISK to shell out. They wanted the option to customize their current freighter. Nobody in all of Eve has ever said that freighters were over powered. If freighters were overpowered, then we wouldn't be ganked on a daily basis. Freighters and JFs needed a buff not a beat down with the nerf bat.

I know that ore compression is going to be big and all that, and so you are probably expecting mineral hauling to become less frequent, but hauling minerals is only one of the many items we haul on a regular basis. Reducing our base cargo hold size is going to impact our ability to serve all of our customers.

Adding shield and armor HP to a freighter does not help them in any way shape or form. The resistances are ***t. The only reason a freighter has half a chance at surviving a gank is because of the massive hull HPs...which you are taking away.

All you are doing is making it far easier for the Hi-Sec gankers to gank freighters. Instead of 15 catalysts they will need only 10, and now instead of having a ship worth 1.5 bill, it'll be easily over 2 bill with T1 rigs, and probably closer to 4b for a T1 freighter with T2 capital rigs (because those are retardedly expensive).

Eve's whole mantra is "risk versus reward." Well, freighter pilots and JF pilots have a huge amount of risk, and not that great a reward. Where as ganking catalysts/talos/brutix have almost no risk, and a huge amount of reward. This whole thing seems backwards.

i thought JFs were the magical teleportation technique used to move things from one side of eve, to the other?

Low slots are even more problematic than rigs, and would require even larger reductions in base cargo/HP. Then you would be whining even more.

Freighter pilots were asking CCP over and over for the ability to fit rigs, and they got it. Now suddenly this is the worst change ever.

Realistically all JF pilots in eve will fork over the billion isk for cargo rigs, while paying more for fuel. Yay, whatever. If you can afford the JF, you can afford the rigs.

Freighters get to chose two of the following:
--loooooonger align times. Yay.
--less cargo space. Meh, I never ran fully loaded anyway.
--Less tank. Easier to gank. Yay.

Regardless of what you pick, you get f***ed in the a**. But you get to choose precisely how you get f***** in the a**. So they whine and dine you first, and THEN you get your choice of ribbed, lubed, or dry. Wonderful.

actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?

actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?

Or
You can have cargo rigs nerf structure.
Agi rigs nerf structure
Hull rigs nerf cargo

Not by much for an extreme price
Not by much and not enough to matter.
Not by much and who gives a shite

So what was the point?

Nobody expected such changes

Out of... curiosity, let's call it, which one is ribbed, which is lubed, and which is dry?

[edit: Ah, great, first post on this page. Just watch this get deleted.

actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?

Sure, if you ignore all the things that make them not a magical teleportation technique, like the fuel cost, the need for a dozen cyno alts and the soul crushing annoyances of logistics.

The costs for that change could have been mitigated by just reclassifying freighters as 'large' instead of capital since they walk like a large, talk like a large and act like a large (in that they can go into highsec) anyways.

yes they did. that's why half the posts in this thread are people like me, tippia, and half of goons being rather smug.

So lets talk about the HPs of a max cargo rigged freighter, has anyone done the math on how many, catalysts / talos are required after the changes?

I expected nerf. I didn't expect such nerf. agility+tank+fuel cost+cargo don't you think that's too much for JF?

fuel cost doesn't really have anything to do with this. that's happening regardless.

Ive noticed something in this discussion, that those that didnt want freighters changes are now coming here in droves claiming all we wanted on freighters were rigs, I was heavily involved in those discussions and I; as well as you, know that that was not the limit of what we were suggesting.

We wanted flexiblity, just like the ORCA, rigs, highs, mids, lows, the whole deal, to now claim all we wanted is rigs is just cheap ass bullshit.

The costs for that change could have been mitigated by just reclassifying freighters as 'large' instead of capital since they walk like a large, talk like a large and act like a large (in that they can go into highsec) anyways.

But this takes creativity something that seems sorely lacking in this sadly comical 'solution'.

actually something i'm genuinely curious about.

since we've got a substantial amount of people saying how bad these changes will be; where were you all every time some one opened up a new thread asking for the exact change you're all being so negative about?