|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
590
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 16:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ouch -- that agility nerf on Jump Freighters is going to suck some. What's the thought process behind that? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
590
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 16:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oh -- I think I answered my own question. The JF agility adjustment is meant to compensate for the potential for rigging the Jump Freighter for agility.
My question then becomes "do you think that there is a compelling reason for anyone, ever, to rig for agility?" Jump freighter usage is all about cargo, cargo, cargo. Increasing your cargo reduces the number of trips you have to make, period, which serves to both reduce the amount of fuel you consume and the amount of time you spend running cargo. Messing with the agility only really serves to increase the amount of time you spend doing nothing, without significantly affecting the amount of freight you move.
The only real situation in which you'd want to rig for agility is if you had a habit of jumping to beacons a lot, I guess. Even then, the fuel and time savings of just rigging for cargo would vastly overwhelm the short amount of time you'd save aligning at a beacon. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
590
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Querns wrote:Oh -- I think I answered my own question. The JF agility adjustment is meant to compensate for the potential for rigging the Jump Freighter for agility.
My question then becomes "do you think that there is a compelling reason for anyone, ever, to rig for agility?" Jump freighter usage is all about cargo, cargo, cargo. I will, if I keep it (which is questionable). I picked a JF over a normal freighter for highsec use because it offered higher survivability and faster movement. The higher cargo was pointless since that just made it more worth-while to attack, and I wanted that improved survivability and movement exactly to avoid that problem. Why not rig it for warp speed, instead? You spend a lot more time in warp then you do aligning.
Regarding the safety angle, rigging for hull HP is going to be a lot more effective at safeguarding you than align. Any serious freighter suicide ganker utilizes suicide newbie ships with a point to shut off your warp and stop your align before initiating a bump. Your align time won't be particularly useful in saving you when your align is already terrible (pre- and post-change.) This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
593
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Querns wrote: Why not rig it for warp speed, instead? You spend a lot more time in warp then you do aligning.
you're vunerable when you align but not when you're in warp Sure, but even rigged, the align time of a Jump Freighter is awful enough that anyone trying to gank you will have ample time to mess with you. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
593
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Jump Freighters currently are over powered and you guys know it. This change is a slight nerf and still leaves the ship incredibly useful. For once, I agree with you -- the changes that most people are complaining about are one-time costs in the form of adding rigs. It's painful, but only once.
The agility thing is also fairly minor, but it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I guess. I'd like to hear the justification for it, and if it is indeed because of worries of rigging for agility, I would have to be convinced that anyone sane would ever do that instead of rigging for cargo. Otherwise, it just reduces quality of life for no real reason. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
607
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Buzz Dura wrote:http://i.imgur.com/b4obsew.png
technically,all freighters are now pretty much the same in capacity. You can have better cargo or same cargo with very little improvement of hull HP with 1 hull rig...
JF are .... well ... plug the cargo rig because you d'ont have really the choice... As you don't change rig often !!! This is a pretty good image, but there's one problem -- a Freighter can't have three T2 cargo rigs. It can only fit two T2 and one T1.
The jump freighters are fine, though. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
607
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Allison A'vani wrote:Triturus Alpestris wrote:CCP add low slot and we will forgive you. Now that I think about it, if the changes are kept EXACTLY how they are and you add a low slot then this would be acceptable. A T2 Inertia stab would make up for the massive agility nurf and then the rigs would make up for the cargo nurf. Other wise, this is still an absolutely awful change. EDIT: Talking about for JF, regular freighters I don't really care about either way. No one would fit an istab to that low slot. They'd always fit a cargo expander, every time.
Then, they'd have to reduce the cargohold further to compensate. No thanks. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
608
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 20:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tappits wrote:What is the problem with been able to move Packaged Capital ships in empire in T2 rigged Freighters? Give them a flag so you cannot unpackage them (the caps) in empire stations and bam new high value targets in empire when people are trying to move a packaged JF in a normal Freighter so it can be sold in jita or something. I see nothing wrong with this if thereGÇÖs no way to unpackage them.
This is a terrible idea. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
609
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
You are also missing the three rig slots on the Charon and Obelisk.
I took the liberty of cleaning it up for you: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Cws5fKMYvZjZFCAFaNM9PZuszil-dX3Cc-dEXq0-svc/edit?usp=sharing This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
641
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
The new changes sound like a good replacement for rigs, especially for Jump Freighters. Good looking out.
Regarding the gulf between Kronos and Crius and the lack of options for Jump Freighters, in reality, there's actually a reason to fit warp speed lowslots for a Jump Freighter. When you're doing runs between lowsec and highsec, warp speed matters a lot now. Ever since Rubicon, the speed at which you can do these trips is constrained heavily by warp speed. My logistics route's lowsec / highsec border has distances such that I can only get three jumps per cyno, and that is only if I am paying attention and do not miss a single action or session timer. With warp speed lowslots, I can fit for those when I'm making my (empty) run back to highsec and save some time.
This was technically possible in the rig slot scenario by fitting warp speed rigs, but it would not have been compelling enough to do in place of cargo rigs, given the expense of capital rigs and the inability to remove rigs without destroying them. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
641
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 16:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Say bye-bye small null corps.
I'll check back in a couple of years to see if CCP has stopped doing boneheaded things. I am genuinely interested in the cognitive dissonance that has generated this conclusion. Lowslots on freighters and JFs kills small null corps? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
641
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 17:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos. Will these modules be made exclusive to jump freighters or will other caps be able to use them? Because if it's the latter you're basically just giving capital ships reduced fuel consumption when they travel in groups. Of course that could be mitigated by making them really big (e.g. 4,000 m3 like other capital mods) so you can't refit them without sacrificing huge portions of your fleet hangar. This is a really interesting way to "balance" fuel consumption low-slot modules against other caps/blackops BS. Hopefully we get a feedback thread for these; there's a couple of potential issues I would like to bring up and/or be pre-empted on, but this is not the thread for it. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
642
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 18:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Brib Vogt wrote: I can understand the bulkhead change but why stripping the cargo capacity from the start. And why giving them such limited fitting possibilities.
They have to reduce the cargo so that when people fit expanded cargoholds, the amount of cargo that freighters can carry does not explode out of control. It's the price you pay for customizability. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
643
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 22:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think there's still room for JFs to fit things other than cargo expanders. The last load in a JF run is typically not the maximum size of the JF, so swapping some or all of your cargo expanders for capital fuel efficiency lowslots for that jump is smart. Also, if you are doing multiple runs bringing stuff from highsec to lowsec, fitting istabs and/or hyperspatial optimizers to reduce your travel time with an empty JF is also smart.
Lowslots enable this behavior much better than rigs, since modules are much cheaper and can be removed from the JF without losing them. Rigs required you to make a single choice up-front and had that choice essentially be permanent due to the cost of capital rigs and the fact that they are destroyed when they are removed. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
|
|
|