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Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:22:00 - [1] - Quote So I was going all immersion thing decided to max Amarr laser boats and continue from there. Right now my Gunnery\lasers (large) is same skill level as Cruise missile skills. Both of those tested with 3% implants. So started with caldari ships... Raven \ Raven Navy > pure pwnage > select-able damage type and huge range.... Then tried SNI > even bigger pwnage > got larger range, due to resists bonus and 8 mid slots can use 2 target painters > ROF bonus make this wicked ship like space machine gun that spits cruise missiles. At any rate also shield tanking seems to hold pretty well against everything (X-l shield booster = 5 sec cycle \ LAR = 9 sec cycle). Next I tried Laser boat, went for Apocalypse. After tinkering with EFT and considering I'm using T1 weapons I went with beams. They got pretty decent damage and sometimes they surprise me and insta pop stuff but... when I got target farther away from 40km I'm pretty muc screwed as damage drops sharply. Also noticed that due to the lack of TP anything smaller then battleship takes less damage per volley. So took my Apoc for test, 1. Vs sansha , lots of cruisers\bc and 1 bs... took long enough. Switched scripts from range to speed once I got into MF range but still seems pretty annoying to shoot down the small stuff. 2. VS Guristas... Heard alot of horror stories about lasers vs guristas but as soon as I was in range I melted them... only needed bit extra patience but once their shields were down it was pretty quick. problem was range... even though they were over 100km they actually were able to shoot me and I had to get closer, to survive that onslaught as I couldn't reduce their dps via pewpew I had to beef my tank get closer and then shoot e'm but in doing so I had to gimp my gank :X So bottom line seems to me that something is bit off here.. I'm comparing two T1 weapon systems, one is severely lacking in range and damage application for some reason. read alot about not bothering with amarr boats until u get pulse + scorch = if that is the case it's extremely sucks. So what's the deal with lasers and pve missions ? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:08:00 - [2] - Quote Okay you're saying the SNI is better for pwnage than the RNI? This tells me something is wrong with your RNI fit. Lasers require decent gunnery skills to work. If you want DPS you either use T2 pulse or Tachyon beams. Frigates are instapoped and cruisers die with a few shots.
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:13:00 - [3] - Quote no no... I meant SNI had even longer range. with same skills I get something like 10-15 km extra range on SNI. Also SNI is much easier to fit due to 6 launchers vs 8 on RNI and with 2 TP it gets the job done but if it is possible to fit the RNI is much better it shreds stuff like nothing. And that's the only way? T2 lasers or to gtfo? I'm sad panda... "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:20:00 - [4] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: no no... I meant SNI had even longer range. with same skills I get something like 10-15 km extra range on SNI. Also SNI is much easier to fit due to 6 launchers vs 8 on RNI and with 2 TP it gets the job done but if it is possible to fit the RNI is much better it shreds stuff like nothing. And that's the only way? T2 lasers or to gtfo? I'm sad panda... This is not correct. The Raven and RNI have more range than the SNI No T2 pulse or T1 tachyon
Mund Richard 559	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:23:00 - [5] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Next I tried Laser boat, went for Apocalypse. After tinkering with EFT and considering I'm using T1 weapons I went with beams. They got pretty decent damage and sometimes they surprise me and insta pop stuff but... when I got target farther away from 40km I'm pretty muc screwed as damage drops sharply. Also noticed that due to the lack of TP anything smaller then battleship takes less damage per volley. I haven't flown Amarr Battleships yet, but did fly the others. Guns apply damage different than missiles, and from your post it ain't clear if you are aware of that. Guns have random damage (can be more than the paper max), and get their damage reduced by angular velocity, but even a tiny ship gets full damage (modified by random) if it's coming straight at you. Thus Wardens and long-range guns with range ammo can easily pop frigate rats once they jump away 100km with the LMJD. Missiles do fix damage that cannot be higher than the stated for a missile, get their damage ALWAYS reduced by signature if it's smaller than the Explosion Radius of your Missiles, get always reduced by speed, thus they are best at rats already orbiting you (their orbiting velocity is only half that of their approaching). Now coming down from my high horse and to the specific case here... There's a good reason I abandoned my initial Amarr toon. A Paladin with Mega Pulse Scorch and a Large Micro Jump Drive is a thing of beauty against EM-vulnerable rats, but you have to get there first... "We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then?-áLock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor-áis two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:27:00 - [6] - Quote IIshira wrote: Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: no no... I meant SNI had even longer range. with same skills I get something like 10-15 km extra range on SNI. Also SNI is much easier to fit due to 6 launchers vs 8 on RNI and with 2 TP it gets the job done but if it is possible to fit the RNI is much better it shreds stuff like nothing. And that's the only way? T2 lasers or to gtfo? I'm sad panda... This is not correct. The Raven and RNI have more range than the SNI No T2 pulse or T1 tachyon I don't use and modules to increase range on my missile ships. the RNI and Raven I get around 90-100km range with the SNI I get 100-115Km range. but that's not the issue. I'll check out EFT for T1 tach... "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:32:00 - [7] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: IIshira wrote: Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: no no... I meant SNI had even longer range. with same skills I get something like 10-15 km extra range on SNI. Also SNI is much easier to fit due to 6 launchers vs 8 on RNI and with 2 TP it gets the job done but if it is possible to fit the RNI is much better it shreds stuff like nothing. And that's the only way? T2 lasers or to gtfo? I'm sad panda... This is not correct. The Raven and RNI have more range than the SNI No T2 pulse or T1 tachyon I don't use and modules to increase range on my missile ships. the RNI and Raven I get around 90-100km range with the SNI I get 100-115Km range. but that's not the issue. I'll check out EFT for T1 tach... I hate to ask the obvious but are you using cruise or heavy launchers? Raven and RNI get 167km without skills. Factor in skills and it's over 200 km. You don't need anything to increase range.
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:41:00 - [8] - Quote Regarding cruise ship here is skeleton fit I use on my sni for L4s I switch tank\gank types per mission - > ignore the drones switch those as well. [Scorpion Navy Issue, Scop] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II X-Large Shield Booster II 'Stalwart' Particle Field Magnifier Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile [empty high slot] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x10 According to eft max locking range for my skill level is 103.5 km without any modules using this hull. my missiles can get much farther then that but at any way this range is more then enough for all L4s. According to EFT with my skills max locking range with raven: 86.5 / RNI: 86.25 kinda weird but guess those ships meant to be boosted some way with locking range modules or something, considering locking range\ 6 launchers fit and 2 TP I just use cheap standard SNI fit that does the job in timely manner. Ok tested t1 tach on the apocalypse. Pretty hard to fit ofc. with longest range crystals on Level 5 skills preset got pretty anemic dps compared to cruise (when u compare fitting vs dps\range value). Basically seems I am doing something wrong here... 2 weapon systems.. both of them on meta 4. same skills same implants (3% bonus ones). With cruise I shred missions pretty easily even blockade\worlds collide and such with no problem popping stuff over 100km away from destroyer size and up it's 1-2 shots to pop. some frigs are also easy to pop. BS are also not so hard to kill with cruise. Next is lasers. using beams (which supposed to be long range) I can't even lock target on stuff 100km away (with same skills using cruise I can) and my longest range crystals to hit rats in my longest range do pretty anemic damage. From all gathered information and my great love to amarr it seems I'll need some T2 weapones and crystals + some pimped gunnery skills in order to make the best of it... but... Thinking about it might be just easier to get into t2 cruise + Golem and call it a day. thoughts? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:46:00 - [9] - Quote If you want easy mode stick to missiles. Gunnery is more complicated but can be just as effective and more so in some situations. Lasers work well in Amarr space but due to the damage type your won't do as well other places. Missiles allows you to select your damage type. Locking range can be increased by a sensor booster or the long range targeting skill.
KaDa en Bauldry Aliastra Gallente Federation 55	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:52:00 - [10] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Thinking about it might be just easier to get into t2 cruise + Golem and call it a day. thoughts? That is one of the easiest ways. Cruise Golem has it's own bag of issues ofc, but being complicated ain't one of them. But if you are looking at T2 wep + Marauders, try a Scorch Paladin in EFT, 2TC, Bastion, Cap Booster and LMJD. Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:00:00 - [11] - Quote KaDa en Bauldry wrote: Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Thinking about it might be just easier to get into t2 cruise + Golem and call it a day. thoughts? That is one of the easiest ways. Cruise Golem has it's own bag of issues ofc, but being complicated ain't one of them. But if you are looking at T2 wep + Marauders, try a Scorch Paladin in EFT, 2TC, Bastion, Cap Booster and LMJD. I prefer 3 TC and tachyons with IN MF. You get more DPS. I know everyone loves Scorch though
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:05:00 - [12] - Quote one of the reasons I tried the apoc was because I planned on going marauder with paladin. But this little hiccup I got today made me think again... I've looked on the nightmare, it got shield tanking but some nice damage for lasers, thoughts? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:11:00 - [13] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: one of the reasons I tried the apoc was because I planned on going marauder with paladin. But this little hiccup I got today made me think again... The Paladin is very nice but it's a T2 BS so good skills are expected. Mine puts out 1040 turret DPS without implants. The Nightmare is nice but the Paladin bests it. I honestly love both but don't expect to mission in Caldari space due to you're only doing EM themal.
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:18:00 - [14] - Quote I really don't understand this "do mission in amarr space" explenation u give. I do missions for the Amarr Navy in Amarr space. I get LOADS of missions vs guristas\mercs\EOM and others. the bulk of low grade missions are sansha\blood raiders of course but I get all of them even serepentis from time to time so it's really don't matter which space I do missions in because at one point or another I'll get missions vs "non-optimal" targets for my weapon system. Hence why I trained missiles in first place but the difference is so huge that I really don't get it what I'm doing wrong. Skills are same level... let's expand here.. all turrets types for pve. I got same skills for missiles and gunnery and both of them aim for meta 4 ones. anything on gunnery can compete with missiles? I'm talking here fitting\range\damage. I've seen T2 lasers in action and they are great really but going T2 is commitment on weapon department and before that I wanted to practice with the meta 4s until I'll train them, cruise were cake walk but lasers had me at an impasse... how about hybrid\projectile? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:27:00 - [15] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: I really don't understand this "do mission in amarr space" explenation u give. I do missions for the Amarr Navy in Amarr space. I get LOADS of missions vs guristas\mercs\EOM and others. the bulk of low grade missions are sansha\blood raiders of course but I get all of them even serepentis from time to time so it's really don't matter which space I do missions in because at one point or another I'll get missions vs "non-optimal" targets for my weapon system. Hence why I trained missiles in first place but the difference is so huge that I really don't get it what I'm doing wrong. Skills are same level... let's expand here.. all turrets types for pve. I got same skills for missiles and gunnery and both of them aim for meta 4 ones. anything on gunnery can compete with missiles? I'm talking here fitting\range\damage. I've seen T2 lasers in action and they are great really but going T2 is commitment on weapon department and before that I wanted to practice with the meta 4s until I'll train them, cruise were cake walk but lasers had me at an impasse... how about hybrid\projectile? It does matter where you do missions. I do missions there and the majority are against EM weak rats. I also do missions in Caldari space with a Golem / CNR and I can't remember the last time I fought Sansha or BR. You're focusing on the T2 but it's more than that. It's the support skills that will make a difference. I wouldn't recommend splitting too much of your focus between gunnery and missiles. You're better being really good at one than so so at both. Something I learned the hard way. Projectiles are nice but they have the same drawbacks as all turrets. Hybrids are well... best for PVP. I've never been impressed with them in missions.
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:35:00 - [16] - Quote This week on Amarr space from Amarr navy the majority of rats I got for missions are anagels \ mercs and guristas. About caldari space you said you used golem so it really does not matter which rats you get it's same same. Now, on my T2 argument, getting basic support damage skills and acess to large weapons were not that bad time wise I wanted to try both but everywhere I read online the top notch ships everyone recommends are gunnery based, and many claim that with instant damage of guns missions are faster. But I seem to be doing something wrong here and I failed to find the sweet spot of range\fit\damage with guns hence why I am asking here... Let's say I am going to engage all types of rats (damage wise) and I'll be using gunnery based ship. which one will give me the range needed (around 100-80km) with decent enough damage to deal with this challenge eve while using meta 4 weapons? (damage mods are t2 \ tank is t2 it's just weapons meta 4). "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:50:00 - [17] - Quote Guns lose damage at range and 100km is far out. You can use a Maelstrom with 1400's but the ROF sucks. With railguns you'll hit but be using low DPS ammo. Have you considered sentry drones? A MJD Dominix using Bouncers can hit 100km easily. T1 sentry drones are about to get a buff too. Sorry I know you said turrets but just brainstorming.
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:55:00 - [18] - Quote I actually got pretty good Drones skills and I'll be able to use sentry drones in 3 days if I'll bother to train them. In the past I wanted to use rattlesnake but they are going to change it this summer so I skipped it until I'll see what's what after the change. Regarding dominix I guess MJD with minimal tank is what you had in mind? and probably will require some mandatory rail guns or something on top? Never used sentry drones before, heard lots of good things about them but on some missions it seems rats gets suicidal and jest zerg my drones.... "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:14:00 - [19] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: I actuallyworth pretty good Drones skills and I'll be able to use sentry drones in 3 days if I'll bother to train them. In the past I wanted to use rattlesnake but they are going to change it this summer so I skipped it until I'll see what's what after the change. Regarding dominix I guess MJD with minimal tank is what you had in mind? and probably will require some mandatory rail guns or something on top? Never used sentry drones before, heard lots of good things about them but on some missions it seems rats gets suicidal and jest zerg my drones.... Yeah if you keep range you don't need much tank. I have a fit at home I can link it. Guns aren't really worth it since you get maybe 200 DPS. You just have to be careful not to mess up with the MJD because the reactivation timer is forever. It won't be as good as the RNI though. When I get to my computer I can link a few fits.
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:22:00 - [20] - Quote hmm was EFT brainstorming the Rattlesnake. actually after summer changes that ships looks even better. considering I already have shields\missile\drone skills I could probably use that one... So.. active shield brick tank rattle with 5 low slots dedicated to damage (2 BCU \ 3 DDA) what do you think? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 854	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:33:00 - [21] - Quote It might be interesting. The new Rattlesnake is going to have a missile buff and use 2 drones but they will have the effect of 5. Drone aggro with the current system is annoying though. You might want to try a Dominix before you spend ISK on a RS.
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 441	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:39:00 - [22] - Quote I lack t2 armor tank and for me in missions I prefer ease of performance so the fact it will be passive shield and I won't need to manage resists\shield booster might be the thing for me. Also I heard sentry drones are tougher then normal drones and can survive until I'll pull them back... "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Cassandra Aurilien Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 122	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:26:00 - [23] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: hmm was EFT brainstorming the Rattlesnake. actually after summer changes that ships looks even better. considering I already have shields\missile\drone skills I could probably use that one... So.. active shield brick tank rattle with 5 low slots dedicated to damage (2 BCU \ 3 DDA) what do you think? EDIT ok tested even better... passive tank rattlesnake. all lows for gank, meds for tank. using cruise + drones for damage. Tank wise omni tanks and got regen of 262\s now if we do 262 * 5.2 seconds cycle time of the extra large shield booster (which only repair 892 damage per those 5 secs) we get 1362\5s shield repair and it's cap stable omni tanked with better shield rep then x-l shield booster. with my skills which aren't maxed yet... think I'll go rattle O_O I'm pretty sure that you are comparing the passive recharge "after resists" with the active tank "before resists".... There are passive fits that would give you that kind of recharge, but you wouldn't have 5 low slots for damage.
KaDa en Bauldry Aliastra Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:50:00 - [24] - Quote Cassandra Aurilien wrote: Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Tank wise omni tanks and got regen of 262\s now if we do 262 * 5.2 seconds cycle time of the extra large shield booster (which only repair 892 damage per those 5 secs) we get 1362\5s shield repair and it's cap stable omni tanked with better shield rep then x-l shield booster. with my skills which aren't maxed yet... think I'll go rattle O_O I'm pretty sure that you are comparing the passive recharge "after resists" with the active tank "before resists".... There are passive fits that would give you that kind of recharge, but you wouldn't have 5 low slots for damage. Wouldn't be so sure. 2-2 Specific Hardener, 3 SRecharger, 3 T2 Purger gets you numbers like those with implants and no OGB. At a silly price : no Drone Omnilink, no TP, no Rigor rigs. Nice numbers, but not much more unless you want to afk, and there are better ways to do that. Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
Cassandra Aurilien Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 123	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:42:00 - [25] - Quote KaDa en Bauldry wrote: 2-2 Specific Hardener, 3 SRecharger, 3 T2 Purger gets you numbers like those with implants and no OGB. At a silly price : no Drone Omnilink, no TP, no Rigor rigs. Nice numbers, but not much more unless you want to afk, and there are better ways to do that. After resists... Yes. Not before. (I pulled out EFT to doublecheck myself...) You have to go into the lows to get those sort of numbers before resists. 3 Shield Rechargers II , 2 LSE II's & 3 Purger 2 rigs w/ 5% Shield Management & Shield Operation Implants only give 128 HP/S before resists... Either way, though... You can get a lot more out of an active tanked Rattler than a passive. Especially after the upcoming changes...
Barton Breau University of Caille Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:44:00 - [26] - Quote KaDa en Bauldry wrote: Cassandra Aurilien wrote: Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Tank wise omni tanks and got regen of 262\s now if we do 262 * 5.2 seconds cycle time of the extra large shield booster (which only repair 892 damage per those 5 secs) we get 1362\5s shield repair and it's cap stable omni tanked with better shield rep then x-l shield booster. with my skills which aren't maxed yet... think I'll go rattle O_O I'm pretty sure that you are comparing the passive recharge "after resists" with the active tank "before resists".... There are passive fits that would give you that kind of recharge, but you wouldn't have 5 low slots for damage. Wouldn't be so sure. 2-2 Specific Hardener, 3 SRecharger, 3 T2 Purger gets you numbers like those with implants and no OGB. At a silly price : no Drone Omnilink, no TP, no Rigor rigs. Nice numbers, but not much more unless you want to afk, and there are better ways to do that. You have kinda confirmed what Cassandra was saying and yes, Nalelmir seems to be comparing ehp/s with hp/s.
KaDa en Bauldry Aliastra Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:01:00 - [27] - Quote Barton Breau wrote: KaDa en Bauldry wrote: Cassandra Aurilien wrote: [quote=Nalelmir Ahashion]Tank wise omni tanks and got regen of 262\s now if we do 262 * 5.2 seconds cycle time of the extra large shield booster (which only repair 892 damage per those 5 secs) we get 1362\5s shield repair 2-2 Specific Hardener, 3 SRecharger, 3 T2 Purger gets you numbers like those with implants and no OGB. You have kinda confirmed what Cassandra was saying and yes, Nalelmir seems to be comparing ehp/s with hp/s. I see 1362 hp/5sec (5*262 / sec) passive shield recharge being compared to an XL shield booster's 892 hp per 5 second cycle, and not ehp/s to hp/s. What I disagreed on is the 5 lows not being free. But at what price are they free? Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 770	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:40:00 - [28] - Quote IIshira wrote: It might be interesting. The new Rattlesnake is going to have a missile buff and use 2 drones but they will have the effect of 5. Drone aggro with the current system is annoying though. You might want to try a Dominix before you spend ISK on a RS. The new Rattler will be a brawler. It is going to need a lot more tank compared to a sniping Domi popping things at 120-150km with Bouncer IIs. Assuming you bother with MJD at all you are likely to MJD past the rats to get them at 40 to 80km range rather than away from for 100km plus like a Domi or the current Rattler.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 1123	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:23:00 - [29] - Quote Put t1 missile launchers on a standard raven and compare it to the Apoc if you want a fair comparison. Noticed you still need a cap booster on, you probably need many million more SP before you can fly any ship at max efficiency. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
Estella Osoka Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis 369	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:12:00 - [30] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: IIshira wrote: It might be interesting. The new Rattlesnake is going to have a missile buff and use 2 drones but they will have the effect of 5. Drone aggro with the current system is annoying though. You might want to try a Dominix before you spend ISK on a RS. The new Rattler will be a brawler. It is going to need a lot more tank compared to a sniping Domi popping things at 120-150km with Bouncer IIs. Assuming you bother with MJD at all you are likely to MJD past the rats to get them at 40 to 80km range rather than away from for 100km plus like a Domi or the current Rattler. I am looking at converting my rattlesnake to RHML and Bouncer/Gecko. Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Also I heard sentry drones are tougher then normal drones and can survive until I'll pull them back... If your actively looking. Guristas can take out a sentry drone at 100km plus in a very short time. If you get distracted or are afk for even 30 seconds you can still lose them. You can of course also remote rep them. Why Gecko? New Rattler will only have 50 mBit. Meaning you will only be able to launch 1 Gecko.
Nimrod vanHall Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda 86	Posted - 2014.05.19 22:19:00 - [31] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Hasikan Miallok wrote: IIshira wrote: It might be interesting. The new Rattlesnake is going to have a missile buff and use 2 drones but they will have the effect of 5. Drone aggro with the current system is annoying though. You might want to try a Dominix before you spend ISK on a RS. The new Rattler will be a brawler. It is going to need a lot more tank compared to a sniping Domi popping things at 120-150km with Bouncer IIs. Assuming you bother with MJD at all you are likely to MJD past the rats to get them at 40 to 80km range rather than away from for 100km plus like a Domi or the current Rattler. I am looking at converting my rattlesnake to RHML and Bouncer/Gecko. Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Also I heard sentry drones are tougher then normal drones and can survive until I'll pull them back... If your actively looking. Guristas can take out a sentry drone at 100km plus in a very short time. If you get distracted or are afk for even 30 seconds you can still lose them. You can of course also remote rep them. Why Gecko? New Rattler will only have 50 mBit. Meaning you will only be able to launch 1 Gecko. And what are the RS bonus's? Read the drone bonus again. Keep in mind that the gecko counts as a heavy drone.
stoicfaux 4835	Posted - 2014.05.19 23:47:00 - [32] - Quote PvE missile battleships are generally sub-par for mission based PvE. Reasons being: a) they need to mount missile rigs and thus have to forego warp speed rigs, and b) cruise/torp damage implants share slot 6 with warp speed implants. Exceptions would be someone with a full set of (expensive) Ascendancy warp speed implants, and/or if/when someone can make RHMLs work in missions. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
Barton Breau University of Caille Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2014.05.20 00:21:00 - [33] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: PvE missile battleships are generally sub-par for mission based PvE. Reasons being: a) they need to mount missile rigs and thus have to forego warp speed rigs, and b) cruise/torp damage implants share slot 6 with warp speed implants. Exceptions would be someone with a full set of (expensive) Ascendancy warp speed implants, and/or if/when someone can make RHMLs work in missions. While im not saying this consideration is useless, how many people, statistically, are actually able and willing to complete missions fast enough that a warp speed consideration comes into play ?
Ireland VonVicious Vicious Trading Company 309	Posted - 2014.05.20 00:39:00 - [34] - Quote The RS is the win for top missile using sub-cap. It's soon to be update is going to have less damage from light and medium drones. What it is gaining v.s. larger ships is equal to what it is losing v.s. smaller ones. It will put it more in line with the other BS size ships. (( Except the Dominix, eatting small ships better than ever. ))
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 784	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:45:00 - [35] - Quote Its gaining overall DPS but mainly losing effective range and becoming more suited to a sub 80km brawler/mid range ship. My impression without testing it is my current rattler finishes level IVs a fraction faster than the Domi but with way more work, meaning currently you are better off in the Domi even if it clears rooms a touch slower. Hopefully the summer patch Rattler wil make it more worth flying. The Domi flies itself most of the time. I parked at warp in WC yesterday intending to clear the Angel side and blitz the mission ignoring the Gurista completely, got distracted for a few minutes and came back and the bouncers had cleared the room.
stoicfaux 4836	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:52:00 - [36] - Quote Barton Breau wrote: stoicfaux wrote: PvE missile battleships are generally sub-par for mission based PvE. Reasons being: a) they need to mount missile rigs and thus have to forego warp speed rigs, and b) cruise/torp damage implants share slot 6 with warp speed implants. Exceptions would be someone with a full set of (expensive) Ascendancy warp speed implants, and/or if/when someone can make RHMLs work in missions. While im not saying this consideration is useless, how many people, statistically, are actually able and willing to complete missions fast enough that a warp speed consideration comes into play ? As you pointed out, YMMV. With three stacking penalized warp speed rigs[1] and a 10% warp speed implant, a 2.0 AU/s battleship can warp at 3.45 AU/s. If we look at the chart from the warp speed dev blog, we see that for a 20 AU warp, that's a ~21 second difference, or 42 seconds round trip. If it currently takes you 10 minutes (600s) to finish a mission (travel + mission time,) that 42 seconds represents a 7.5% improvement in income. If that 10 minute mission is one jump away, then that 42 * 2 = 84 seconds of saving represents a 16.3% improvement in income. Formula: 100% * 1 / ( (mission_time - warp_savings) / mission_time) 10 minutes, 0 jumps: 7.5% 10 minutes, 1 jumps: 16.3% 20 minutes, 0 jumps: 3.6% 20 minutes, 1 jumps: 7.5% 30 minutes, 0 jumps: 2.4% 30 minutes, 1 jumps: 4.9% "0 jumps" means the mission is in system, i.e. two warps round trip. One jump away is 4 warps round trip. If you're blitzing missions, then you'll probably want more warp speed. If you're not, then you could still benefit noticeably from faster warp speed if your missions are one jump away, with medium-long ranges to the stargates, and if your DPS is maxed out. [1] Warp rigs are getting stacking penalized in Kronos 2014. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
Estella Osoka Deep Void Merc Syndicate 371	Posted - 2014.05.20 14:44:00 - [37] - Quote Nimrod vanHall wrote: Estella Osoka wrote: Hasikan Miallok wrote: IIshira wrote: It might be interesting. The new Rattlesnake is going to have a missile buff and use 2 drones but they will have the effect of 5. Drone aggro with the current system is annoying though. You might want to try a Dominix before you spend ISK on a RS. The new Rattler will be a brawler. It is going to need a lot more tank compared to a sniping Domi popping things at 120-150km with Bouncer IIs. Assuming you bother with MJD at all you are likely to MJD past the rats to get them at 40 to 80km range rather than away from for 100km plus like a Domi or the current Rattler. I am looking at converting my rattlesnake to RHML and Bouncer/Gecko. Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Also I heard sentry drones are tougher then normal drones and can survive until I'll pull them back... If your actively looking. Guristas can take out a sentry drone at 100km plus in a very short time. If you get distracted or are afk for even 30 seconds you can still lose them. You can of course also remote rep them. Why Gecko? New Rattler will only have 50 mBit. Meaning you will only be able to launch 1 Gecko. And what are the RS bonus's? Read the drone bonus again. Keep in mind that the gecko counts as a heavy drone. I know that, but when you lose that Gecko you lose most of your dps, and you have to launch another one and wait for it to get to the target. Sentries would work better as you can scoop them when they start taking dmage and put out new ones.
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 860	Posted - 2014.05.20 14:55:00 - [38] - Quote I wouldn't expect the Gecko to be useful for PVE at all. Just like a heavy drone travel time reduces your effective DPS and it's going to get eaten alive if you send it past 20 km. Yes the RS will give it more HP but it's not indestructible. I guess you could use a prop mod to keep in range of your drone but why when you could just use a sentry drone. Now for PVP it may have some interesting applications. I bet the RS will be popular once people figure out it can work around the patch where CCP put limit to the number of drones assisting a pilot. Yes the actual number of drones isn't increased but the effective number of drones is.
Owen Levanth Federated Deep Space Explorations 149	Posted - 2014.05.20 17:35:00 - [39] - Quote IIshira wrote: I wouldn't expect the Gecko to be useful for PVE at all. Just like a heavy drone travel time reduces your effective DPS and it's going to get eaten alive if you send it past 20 km. Yes the RS will give it more HP but it's not indestructible. I guess you could use a prop mod to keep in range of your drone but why when you could just use a sentry drone. Now for PVP it may have some interesting applications. I bet the RS will be popular once people figure out it can work around the patch where CCP put limit to the number of drones assisting a pilot. Yes the actual number of drones isn't increased but the effective number of drones is. Not entirely true. I already used Geckos in PVE and it's always a laugh. Does damned little things are so durable, in one case a Gecko even survived combined aggro of a dozen rats while travelling back 50+ km to my drone bay. It still had shield left when I scooped it up again.
Estella Osoka Deep Void Merc Syndicate 372	Posted - 2014.05.20 18:29:00 - [40] - Quote Owen Levanth wrote: IIshira wrote: I wouldn't expect the Gecko to be useful for PVE at all. Just like a heavy drone travel time reduces your effective DPS and it's going to get eaten alive if you send it past 20 km. Yes the RS will give it more HP but it's not indestructible. I guess you could use a prop mod to keep in range of your drone but why when you could just use a sentry drone. Now for PVP it may have some interesting applications. I bet the RS will be popular once people figure out it can work around the patch where CCP put limit to the number of drones assisting a pilot. Yes the actual number of drones isn't increased but the effective number of drones is. Not entirely true. I already used Geckos in PVE and it's always a laugh. Does damned little things are so durable, in one case a Gecko even survived combined aggro of a dozen rats while travelling back 50+ km to my drone bay. It still had shield left when I scooped it up again. I had one die before it could get back from being 20km away. If the webbing frigs catch it, it will not make it back.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 790	Posted - 2014.05.21 08:57:00 - [41] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Owen Levanth wrote: IIshira wrote: I wouldn't expect the Gecko to be useful for PVE at all. Just like a heavy drone travel time reduces your effective DPS and it's going to get eaten alive if you send it past 20 km. Yes the RS will give it more HP but it's not indestructible. I guess you could use a prop mod to keep in range of your drone but why when you could just use a sentry drone. Now for PVP it may have some interesting applications. I bet the RS will be popular once people figure out it can work around the patch where CCP put limit to the number of drones assisting a pilot. Yes the actual number of drones isn't increased but the effective number of drones is. Not entirely true. I already used Geckos in PVE and it's always a laugh. Does damned little things are so durable, in one case a Gecko even survived combined aggro of a dozen rats while travelling back 50+ km to my drone bay. It still had shield left when I scooped it up again. I had one die before it could get back from being 20km away. If the webbing frigs catch it, it will not make it back. Yeah they can die. However the new RS Gecko will have 3.75 times the HP plus you will likely drop the MJD for a MWD or AB on the ship and be able to meet it half way. Packing 2 x bouncers 2 x Gecko and 5 x Warrior/Hob II gives a spare gecko and some lights for emergencies.
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 180	Posted - 2014.05.21 10:18:00 - [42] - Quote yes you will get better performance with t1 missiles compared to t1 lasers. that is why most people start with missile ships for lv4s. however the performane ceiling is much higher on a paladin than a golem, not to mention the voley counting and painter juggling. so at higher sp you will have better performance with the paladin. the skills also help with fitting on other ships so the training is not wasted. regaeding the missioning in amarr space. a lot of missions are alway the same for example AE. other missions the rats change depending on the space you are in (not corp you are running for). for example blockade or recon. other missions are only available in certain space like gone bezerk or gurista/serpentis assault. that said while scorch is high em, conflag is high therm and that means you have a large range of non space specific missions that you will be good at too like drone/merc missions. eom is also therm weak iirc. then of course nothing is stopping you from having a raven AND a paladin.
Estella Osoka Deep Void Merc Syndicate 374	Posted - 2014.05.21 14:29:00 - [43] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: Estella Osoka wrote: Owen Levanth wrote: IIshira wrote: I wouldn't expect the Gecko to be useful for PVE at all. Just like a heavy drone travel time reduces your effective DPS and it's going to get eaten alive if you send it past 20 km. Yes the RS will give it more HP but it's not indestructible. I guess you could use a prop mod to keep in range of your drone but why when you could just use a sentry drone. Now for PVP it may have some interesting applications. I bet the RS will be popular once people figure out it can work around the patch where CCP put limit to the number of drones assisting a pilot. Yes the actual number of drones isn't increased but the effective number of drones is. Not entirely true. I already used Geckos in PVE and it's always a laugh. Does damned little things are so durable, in one case a Gecko even survived combined aggro of a dozen rats while travelling back 50+ km to my drone bay. It still had shield left when I scooped it up again. I had one die before it could get back from being 20km away. If the webbing frigs catch it, it will not make it back. Yeah they can die. However the new RS Gecko will have 3.75 times the HP plus you will likely drop the MJD for a MWD or AB on the ship and be able to meet it half way. Packing 2 x bouncers 2 x Gecko and 5 x Warrior/Hob II gives a spare gecko and some lights for emergencies. If i want to use the Geckos, my preferred ship right now is an Ishtar or VNI. With either ship I can get 850 dps with just drones using a combination of 2 Geckos, 2 Hammerheads, and 1 Hob. My Ishtar can easily tank L4s, and I find it more enjoyable to know I 'm killing all that **** with a T2 cruiser. One other thing to think about, Machariel can already do arounf 1400 turret dps, 2 Geckos compliment it perfectly.
Inkarr Hashur Skyline Federation 504	Posted - 2014.05.21 16:19:00 - [44] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: Barton Breau wrote: stoicfaux wrote: PvE missile battleships are generally sub-par for mission based PvE. Reasons being: a) they need to mount missile rigs and thus have to forego warp speed rigs, and b) cruise/torp damage implants share slot 6 with warp speed implants. Exceptions would be someone with a full set of (expensive) Ascendancy warp speed implants, and/or if/when someone can make RHMLs work in missions. While im not saying this consideration is useless, how many people, statistically, are actually able and willing to complete missions fast enough that a warp speed consideration comes into play ? As you pointed out, YMMV. With three stacking penalized warp speed rigs[1] and a 10% warp speed implant, a 2.0 AU/s battleship can warp at 3.45 AU/s. If we look at the chart from the warp speed dev blog, we see that for a 20 AU warp, that's a ~21 second difference, or 42 seconds round trip. If it currently takes you 10 minutes (600s) to finish a mission (travel + mission time,) that 42 seconds represents a 7.5% improvement in income. If that 10 minute mission is one jump away, then that 42 * 2 = 84 seconds of saving represents a 16.3% improvement in income. Formula: 100% * 1 / ( (mission_time - warp_savings) / mission_time) 10 minutes, 0 jumps: 7.5% 10 minutes, 1 jumps: 16.3% 20 minutes, 0 jumps: 3.6% 20 minutes, 1 jumps: 7.5% 30 minutes, 0 jumps: 2.4% 30 minutes, 1 jumps: 4.9% "0 jumps" means the mission is in system, i.e. two warps round trip. One jump away is 4 warps round trip. If you're blitzing missions, then you'll probably want more warp speed. If you're not, then you could still benefit noticeably from faster warp speed if your missions are one jump away, with medium-long ranges to the stargates, and if your DPS is maxed out. [1] Warp rigs are getting stacking penalized in Kronos 2014. Realistically speaking, for how many battleship setups would you actually want to dedicate all your rigs to warp speed? That 7.5% and 16.3% figure comes at the cost of tank, application, and projection rigs (and in some cases cap life). Granted the figure looks better the more systems you have to jump across. Also Marauders don't even have three rig slots to use.
stoicfaux 4848	Posted - 2014.05.22 03:47:00 - [45] - Quote Inkarr Hashur wrote: Realistically speaking, for how many battleship setups would you actually want to dedicate all your rigs to warp speed? That 7.5% and 16.3% figure comes at the cost of tank, application, and projection rigs (and in some cases cap life). Granted the figure looks better the more systems you have to jump across. Depends on your goals. If you're new to missions, then your focus won't be on warp speed rigs. If your eyes bleed from missions and you believe that gank is tank, then you can probably find a few setups/battleships that will work. At a minimum, a Mach should do well. Remember, you can decline multiple missions per 4 hour block if your standings are high enough (and as long as your standings toward the agent and/or the agent's corp don't go below -0.2,) so there's no reason to do missions that are too "dangerous" because you swapped tank/gank rigs for warp speed rigs. Quote: Also Marauders don't even have three rig slots to use. True, but they do get a 10% warp speed bonus over regular battleships. Woot. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
Amber Solaire Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 37	Posted - 2014.06.04 22:24:00 - [46] - Quote Get some better implants.....
Carniflex StarHunt Mordus Angels 224	Posted - 2014.06.05 06:42:00 - [47] - Quote To answer the tile: No There are better missile platforms than caldary for running PvE content. Granted, some of the "edge" over caldary comes from split weapon system, like, for example fleet typhoons ability to field 5 sentry drones in addition to doing slightly more damage with missiles (7.5% damage bonus per level against 5% RoF bonus translates into 8.25 effective launchers for navy typhoon against raven's 8 effective launchers) The new Mordus BS has slightly more base missile damage but it is still badly outperformed by properly set up navy typhoon. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 623	Posted - 2014.06.05 08:06:00 - [48] - Quote Mund Richard wrote: Missiles do fix damage that cannot be higher than the stated for a missile, get their damage ALWAYS reduced by signature if it's smaller than the Explosion Radius of your Missiles, get always reduced by speed (if it's higher than the exp velo), thus they are best at rats already orbiting you (their orbiting velocity is only half that of their approaching). One tiny correction here - you can compensate for explosion velocity by explosion radius. This means that even if your missile's explosion velocity is very low, you may still apply full damage to a ship moving fast, provided your explosion radius is good.
Carniflex StarHunt Mordus Angels 224	Posted - 2014.06.05 09:25:00 - [49] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: Barton Breau wrote: stoicfaux wrote: PvE missile battleships are generally sub-par for mission based PvE. Reasons being: a) they need to mount missile rigs and thus have to forego warp speed rigs, and b) cruise/torp damage implants share slot 6 with warp speed implants. Exceptions would be someone with a full set of (expensive) Ascendancy warp speed implants, and/or if/when someone can make RHMLs work in missions. While im not saying this consideration is useless, how many people, statistically, are actually able and willing to complete missions fast enough that a warp speed consideration comes into play ? As you pointed out, YMMV. With three stacking penalized warp speed rigs[1] and a 10% warp speed implant, a 2.0 AU/s battleship can warp at 3.45 AU/s. If we look at the chart from the warp speed dev blog, we see that for a 20 AU warp, that's a ~21 second difference, or 42 seconds round trip. If it currently takes you 10 minutes (600s) to finish a mission (travel + mission time,) that 42 seconds represents a 7.5% improvement in income. If that 10 minute mission is one jump away, then that 42 * 2 = 84 seconds of saving represents a 16.3% improvement in income. Formula: 100% * 1 / ( (mission_time - warp_savings) / mission_time) 10 minutes, 0 jumps: 7.5% 10 minutes, 1 jumps: 16.3% 20 minutes, 0 jumps: 3.6% 20 minutes, 1 jumps: 7.5% 30 minutes, 0 jumps: 2.4% 30 minutes, 1 jumps: 4.9% "0 jumps" means the mission is in system, i.e. two warps round trip. One jump away is 4 warps round trip. If you're blitzing missions, then you'll probably want more warp speed. If you're not, then you could still benefit noticeably from faster warp speed if your missions are one jump away, with medium-long ranges to the stargates, and if your DPS is maxed out. [1] Warp rigs are getting stacking penalized in Kronos 2014. Hm - seems like the difference can be indeed noticeable. Looking at the linked devblog and taking a situation in one of the popular mission hubs. Distance to gate - 11 AU In system typical warp distance ~20 AU Adjacent system typical warp distance ~110 AU Increasing the warp speed from 2 to 2.2 saves you 10 seconds in system, 24 seconds in that huge adjacent system and 28 seconds if mission is 2j out (further system a bit smaller) Increasing the warp speed from 2 to 2.8 saves you 28 seconds in system, 76 seconds! in the adjacent system and 82 seconds if mission is 2j out. Although ofc a single T2 rig would increase the warp speed only to 2.5, but still, the difference is substantial. And a T1 navy BS can actually run 2x T2 rigor 1x T2 warp speed rigs. Although such a setup can require some quite shiny compromises in the tanking section as it hits CPU pretty hard for majority of mission setups. The difference between 2.8 AU/s and 2.2 AU/s (latter being marauders) is still noticeable but not quite as dramatic. 18 seconds in system, 52 seconds in adjacent system and 54 seconds 2 jumps out. Golem has somewhat harder time dropping the rigor, though, as it has only 2 rig slots to start with so the options are 2x T2 rigor against 1x T2 rigor + 1x T2 warp speed. Painter bonus can allow one to compensate by fitting more painters (which are a bit better now that their cycle time is 5 sec). Losing one T2 rigor for a Golem would mean missile sig going from ~160m up to ~200m - which, even with painters would probably cost you more or less about 1 extra minute per mission for all the frigates you did not kill in one volley. More of an issue if you are up against spider drones or elite frigs ofc. And if you are using missiles against these instead of putting your drones on them. For a missile ship I believe the averageish blitzing rate is approx 5-6 missions per hour I believe, but I have not done the numbers after the warp speed changes for missions so that might have changed things quite a bit (although after the changes BS should be somewhat slower than before). Not counting the missions for which you use some other ship like interceptor or T3. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Carniflex StarHunt Mordus Angels 224	Posted - 2014.06.05 11:41:00 - [50] - Quote After looking at the numbers for a little while I have, with some regret, upgraded my mission-running battleships to use T2 warp speed rigs. It hurts especially on the Golem as with only 2 rig slots losing one of the Rigors it will do things to my damage application. But on the other hand the whole minute saved in-warp for majority of missions is significant enough. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Taegessia Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.06.05 13:14:00 - [51] - Quote About using more warp speed vs gank\tank on mission ships, my instinct says its more like a tie rather than actually making a noticeable difference (unless you travel to multiple agents in a 3-5 jump radius). All battleships no matter the weapon type can use dps\damage rigs. Quick\generic examble without getting into many details : If i remove the T2 flare\rigor rigs from the TFI & use warp rigs instead, granted I will reduce travel time from source to destination and back. If that time is say 40 secs then that equals aproximmately with 5 cruise missile volleys. If said mission has minimum 5 npc battleships it will most likely take me 1 volley more for each one to take down since I now have reduced damage per volley. I'm not sure, though more warp speed is a no-brainer, depending what you sacrifice. I don't feel comfortable sacrificing dmg,dps rigs for it, the ascendancy set looks like a logical step but its too expensive in relation to what I personally use right now (halo).
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.06.05 15:21:00 - [52] - Quote I dunno, with my paladin I feel like 4 heatsinks is enough and I can drop my DPS rig for a warp speed rig. The elutriation rig feels kind of important though. Oh was this thread about missle caldari PVE? I had forgotten after all this talk about warp speed.
M Key Hedion University Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.06.08 16:07:00 - [53] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: I know that, but when you lose that Gecko you lose most of your dps, and you have to launch another one and wait for it to get to the target. Sentries would work better as you can scoop them when they start taking dmage and put out new ones. Problem with that thinking is that the Gecko as used by a rattlesnake can tank almost as much as the rattlesnake itself. Speed/sig tanking battleship class weapons while backing that with huge EHP for the times the transversal falls too close to 0 against the rats. No the problem with the Gecko on a rattlesnake is it can one shot mission triggers smaller than battleships. Not that it can't take a beating.

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