Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Felicity Love
It Was the Year 3030
1843
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 05:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
There won't be enough of a move, in terms of overall numbers, to really make any difference.
People might spread out more, which is what CCP is more or less "encouraging" with the new costs of renting an industry slot in congested locations, but it doesn't mean that the "spreading out" will include Null or even much of Low.
And any one who wants to "rent" is already doing so.
"HTFU ! " -á--- -áKatee Sackhoff, aka "The F-Bomb Queen of EVE" ! !-á
|
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
179
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 04:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:There won't be enough of a move, in terms of overall numbers, to really make any difference.
People might spread out more, which is what CCP is more or less "encouraging" with the new costs of renting an industry slot in congested locations, but it doesn't mean that the "spreading out" will include Null or even much of Low.
And any one who wants to "rent" is already doing so.
While I agree that a majority won't be bothered to change their behavior, the smarter individuals will spread out further than before. As they do, smaller "hubs" will pop up in HS and LS jump-off points to Null, much like Agil for example. http://www.thecoffeerocks.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
179
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 04:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
What I'm really trying to say is that the impact will not be immediate. But, in time, you'll see the spread take effect. http://www.thecoffeerocks.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Amely Miles
Exiled Tech Space Monkey Protectorate
10
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 08:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
When i first read that Kronos was going to have the indy changes i carefully read the ins and outs of the info i could obtain, it was at this point i decided yes indy would be nerfed for high sec people and i came to understand why.
CCP is trying to Force people in to null sec and the reason behind this is because when CCP/Eve gets mentioned in the News it's always because of some Null Sec war or Battle gone wrong never a highsec or low sec war or battle (excluding asakai).
I also came to realise that the changes that were coming were forcing people to become self sufficient as much as possible. why would someone in null spend alot of isk (more then currently) getting there gear to null or to high to live/sell. it seems to me that CCP is trying to get Regional Markets up and going, this will create less server load from the major market hubs like Jita and spread it out a bit making battles a bit better.
I also realise that the changes made to the fuel costs were to help with "Power projection" from the bigger Null sec Alliances causing them to shrink a bit allowing smaller alliances room to grow, well that was the hope from CCP but they did not take in to account that the big null sec blocs have Renters which they will just raise the rent on, this will make it harder for newer alliances to get to Null without renting and if there not self sufficient and using a local market then they won't survive there at all.
I've said all of this just to say that these reasons have forced us to buy 892 bpo's (and growing) and move to and thrive on a Island with High Sec/Low Sec/Null Sec Mining/Ratting/Missioning/Manufacturing PVP roams/wars as well as market PVP.
Moving to a Island was the best decision i feel and i'm glad i came up with this Idea, but if your not self sufficient it won't work. i would also like to say i am glad the indy changes was pushed to Crius. |
Oxide Ammar
139
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 11:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
The biggest party will benefit from the indy changes are renters, they have no interest in PvPing to actually join CTAs, they are relatively safe there and when things gets hairy there are big coalition to defend their space for them. Therefore part of these renters are focusing only on indy.
By taking a glimpse on Corp and Alliance recruitment section in forums you will find them are recruiting armies of ice/ore miners to keep their big machines rolling, they are placing sell orders at prices ofc higher than Jita and in same time coalitions aren't going through the hassle of importing all their needs from Jita, so It's win-win situation. If it's not happening right now, it will after indy changes. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing. |
Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
232
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 12:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Other than capitals I do not see any real incentive for "industrialist" to go out to low/null.
Who would you sell all your products out in null/low sec? You have to get them back to market somehow if you intend to do any meaningful profit and given the increased fuel costs (remeber, JF fuel consumption will double in Crius as well) what little you do save in mineral efficiency / taxes you end up spending on fuel or added hassle of getting raw materials and moving your products.
But who knows - I have not really digged through the numbers. I'm basing my opinion more on assumption that people are lazy and do not like doing logistics most of the time. Especially if the smar way of doing logistics can be sometimes to wait for a hour or two for the weather to clear a bit. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3123
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 07:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
I anticipate production for highsec consumption will remain mostly in highsec, production for nullsec consumption will partially move to nullsec, and production for lowsec consumption will remain in highsec. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
200
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 16:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I anticipate production for highsec consumption will remain mostly in highsec, production for nullsec consumption will partially move to nullsec, and production for lowsec consumption will remain in highsec.
This. Except for cap production for lowsec.
Highsec is an economy all to its own. Will the flow of goods from nullsec to highsec be so massive as to disrupt markets like Jita? Possible but unlikely, at least in the short term.
One thing I'm really happy about - I know we will all eventually find it all out!
|
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
179
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 03:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Other than capitals I do not see any real incentive for "industrialist" to go out to low/null.
Who would you sell all your products out in null/low sec?
Haha - Are you serious? Srsly, I tasked a corpie with just keeping 2 particular hauler hulls on market in ONE of our out-of-the-way Sov stations, and he can't keep up with demand!! And, don't even get me started about the PREMIUM markups that a savvy Indy guy can charge. 600% above Jita? No prob!!
True, there are large chunks of Low/Null that go unseeded (for obvious reasons), but there are large chunks of Null where you easily charge top dollar for T1 items--- and the buyer is simply happy they're on market!!!
Srsly guys, c'mon- don't pretend Sov or 0.0 "sucks to do indy in cause someone told me **they** hate indy ppl". Hell, Coffee is a SCIENCE toon, heh.
If you don't believe me, join a corp like Thrall Nation or SYJ alliance and see for yourself. 7o http://www.thecoffeerocks.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Intar Medris
Viziam Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 13:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
I don't see the changes having much if any real impact on high sec industry. I am close to max refine skills anyways. They are also adjusting the output of refining not just the efficiency. You will get the same you do now, but it will actually pay off to work for better standings aad skills for reprocessing. Also module and ship reprocessing is getting nerfed. Which means less minerals from mission loot. Which means higher mineral prices because missioners will not be flooding the market with minerals. I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen. |
|
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
28
|
Posted - 2014.06.21 16:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:With the new industry overhaul I am wondering what industrial alliances/corps that are based out of highsec plan on doing. The one's I've spoken to seem to feel that highsec indy will be nerfed so much, moving out will be necessary. I've had several clients opting for lowsec but of course 0.0 is also a popular choice to move to. What are people's thoughts/preferences and what pros and cons do you find?
No one really knows how things will shake out. However, it seems that some profitability tiers will be showing up:
1 - Solo high sec player or small and poor high sec corp with no POS access.
2 - High sec corp with POS access.
3 - Low sec POS using builder, low sec cap builder. The regular low sec builder will basically be identical in mechanics to a high sec builder, but will occasionally have a slight advantage in that there will be less crowding. The low sec cap builder gets a module that will help him compete with the null sec builders.
4 - Null sec industrialists.
x-factor: null sec renters (viability completely depends on how much rent the renter will extort from them and how much they'll have to pay in shipping costs.
In general the big leaps in profitability seem to center around whether you use a POS or not. Null sec stations will be considerably cheaper to use than NPC stations, but POS use can offset a ton of that.
The other big issue alongside the POS is shipping. Shipping is not too big a deal for those who have large and organized enough operations to fill JFs (with perfectly skilled pilots) to the brim with every run. For others, shipping is a considerable formant of industry. Further, shipping prices may (actually likely) change with fuel consumption adjustments.
Basically, like pretty much everything else in this game, if you're a solo and/or noobie you're pretty much working at a serious disadvantage unless you PLEX a fleet of alts. If you're a goon, all game mechanics will work considerably to your advantage and that, alongside your superior resources, will give you a considerable leg up. Everybody else will be pretty much in the middle with a slight advantage or a slight disadvantage that won't make an incredible difference.
As far as how this will affect industry remains unknown, but in all likelihood all the tiers will continue to operate. You won't have to move to null if you don't want to. And frankly, even if you want to, you'll have to be in the right alliance with the right friends and roles in that alliance to be able to exploit an advantage. If you think you'll just head to null as a renter you'll find the 5 billion a month you need to pay for your system will eat a lot of your advantage. If you think you'll just join a null alliance and go do industry, you'll find that you'll have to spend months working up relationships and trust, and in all likelihood the group you join won't really be on top of things and they certainly won't be interested in doing things how you want them to. And if you keep on them about stuff or ask for roles you'll probably be booted as a spy. The Eve player base is really the enemy of this game. Because of this, you CAN'T just move to null if you want to, and therefore high sec indy will continue, just with reduced profit margins. |
Bland Inquisitor
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
63
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 01:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Long story short, not only will null sec be more profitable, the demand for industrialists in null will sky rocket. This is something that has been lacking in Null for a long time and I for one am glad to see the return of null-sec industry, even if I do not dabble in it myself all that much.
High-sec was never meant to be a permanent home for pilots. The NPC overlords are supposed to drive you out with the markets squeezed in this resource tight, dog eat dog world CCP created. Being pushed to the fringe's to forge your own destiny is where the game should be, so again I'm happy with the change.
P.S any indy duders that are looking to move out to null call me, can sort you out :) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1383
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 04:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.
Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
331
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 09:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.
Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen.
I think Highsec should have its place but there should be no doubt that low and nullsec should be the places of true profit and innovation. Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
200
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 16:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote:Srsly, I tasked a corpie with just keeping 2 particular hauler hulls on market in ONE of our out-of-the-way Sov stations, and he can't keep up with demand!! And, don't even get me started about the PREMIUM markups that a savvy Indy guy can charge. 600% above Jita? No prob!!
Just to point out - this has nothing to do with industrial activity. The easiest way to do this (even in null) is often to just haul the goods you need in from highsec at this point. For a 600% markup above Jita I would figure that would be quite profitable.
In fact a 600% markup above Jita argues against industrial activity in null because traders can get a good slice of the action. Why take the risk and hassle to make stuff out there when you can just ship it in (with a bit of logistics planning, which you are going to need anyhow for any kind of serious industrial work.)
Selling stuff on the market != industrial activity.
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1383
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 18:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: I think Highsec should have its place but there should be no doubt that low and nullsec should be the places of true profit and innovation.
In a way, but that profit shouldn't be 'I can make stuff cheaper than highsec' since if that margin is enough (And with JF's that's a small amount being enough) then Null can sink high sec industry any time it feels like it, and that's a bad situation. It should be in the 'I make stuff faster' range. Which means both area's of space have equal costs when they use local materials. Since Null is actually able to use entirely local materials while High will always need to import, that in itself 'should' make a cost difference already, but the faster part is where the big profit difference should be. |
Max Essen
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
34
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 18:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Funny thing is, I don't recall seeing many (if any) null corps or alliances trying to recruit any industrialists at all of late. I believe the truth is that the vast majority of manufacture in null can be accomplished very easily by the folk they already have in their corp/alliance.
The casual 2-4 time a week industrial HiSec player (me) may have a little trouble with the upcoming release. So, in preparation, I've pulled down my POS and have been watching and researching so when these changes hit in July ... I'll be ready to make a few ISK here and there ... perhaps even try to cause a little mischief |
Crydan Annages
Independant Capsuleer Association
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 11:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.
Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen.
I still don't get everyone's assumption that hi-sec has no profit. Between two alt's I make enough isk operating in hi-sec to pay for my account and then some, without a whole lot of effort on my part.
How is this not profitable?
I really need someone to explain this to me, because I just don't see it. Am I missing something?
|
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
344
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 18:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Crydan Annages wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.
Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen. I still don't get everyone's assumption that hi-sec has no profit. Between two alt's I make enough isk operating in hi-sec to pay for my account and then some, without a whole lot of effort on my part. How is this not profitable? I really need someone to explain this to me, because I just don't see it. Am I missing something?
Well there's profit where you can pay for a few accounts...
...and then there's profit where you're drowning in isk.
Find a happy balance for you though. If you are good where you are, stay there. If you want more, there's places to go for that too. Consider Khanid/Kor-Azor for rent-á/Hades Effect Recruitment |
Crydan Annages
Independant Capsuleer Association
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.03 18:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Crydan Annages wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.
Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen. I still don't get everyone's assumption that hi-sec has no profit. Between two alt's I make enough isk operating in hi-sec to pay for my account and then some, without a whole lot of effort on my part. How is this not profitable? I really need someone to explain this to me, because I just don't see it. Am I missing something? Well there's profit where you can pay for a few accounts... ...and then there's profit where you're drowning in isk. Find a happy balance for you though. If you are good where you are, stay there. If you want more, there's places to go for that too.
LOL Well I agree, more is always better. But why does everyone complain that it's so nerfed or not profitable when in fact it is. It just depends on your definition of profit and what makes you happy.
I myself can't complain and have no shortage of ISK operating out of hi-sec. |
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1409
|
Posted - 2014.07.04 16:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Crydan Annages wrote: LOL Well I agree, more is always better. But why does everyone complain that it's so nerfed or not profitable when in fact it is. It just depends on your definition of profit and what makes you happy.
I myself can't complain and have no shortage of ISK operating out of hi-sec.
I'm talking about the potential meta shift of Crius, not the current situation. In the current situation, build costs are basically equal regardless of system. And Null has some bad issues like refining.
In the new Crius Meta, Null can build significantly cheaper than High can. Allowing potential for a meta where high sec can not make a profit on any manufacturing because Null is capable of pricing them out of the market on all items. Null is also capable of being utterly independent of all other area's of space, which is something CCP said shouldn't be true of any space.
Neither of these potentials are good, though the meta may or may not play out that way. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |