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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:43:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 02/06/2006 11:43:19
For the following discussion, please assume PvE. As much as I'd like to regularly PvP in one of these ships, Im not quite *that* rich yet :P
Im intending to start farming some level 4s with my Minmatar character. Now, only ever having done level 4s in a Raven, and then not having done what I'd call a lot, Im somewhat of a noob at this. So Im going to either train Gallente BS and fly a Machariel (I dont like cross training....) or, preferably, fly a Fleet Issue Tempest. Now, all the cool kids fly Machariels. But is it really a better ship?
-It has 500 less shields and armour (minor in pve) than the fleetpest
-It has a different slot layout (neither here nor there, or is it?)
-It moves faster than the fleetpest (good thing)
-It has better guns than a fleetpest (more bonuses)
Now given, time = money and so the Machariel being a faster ship is a good thing. Also, its guns are better, but how evident is this? I'm going to be looking at 20% tracking increase as I'll train Gallente BS 4 if it comes to it, but 20% on 1400mms, I dunno. And +tracking on autocannons, seems a bit bump for PvE.
I dont really care about cost of fleetpest vs machariel, what I really care about is whether the Machariel is *so* much better that it's worth me wasting two weeks training on.
Please discuss, and help a noob carebear make a decision.
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06
Today's forum noob level : Neutral.
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VeNT
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:46:00 -
[2]
tbh, Machariel are for close range (hence tracking bonus) and tempests are long range
it depends what you are good at tbh.
if your ok being upclose with a Angel BS or three (where their range comes into play) then ok, if you want to range it out and snipe then go for the tempest tbh.
but anyway, phoons rock more.
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Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet! |
Calisto Cody
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Calisto Cody on 02/06/2006 11:47:30
my corp mate uses one, and that ship (mach) is pure hax, fast as hell, it goes faster than my enyo ffs, and tanks like a mofo, and its fire power is not weak, plus fleet issue has stupid square sails ewwww
edit : they use a long range mach too
The Black Swan Society
Berneh is not appropriate for the forums - |
keepiru
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:49:00 -
[4]
remember tracking bonuses are getting boosted in the static content path, itll be 7.5% per level = 30% tracking.
as for the slots (thats the main difference here), the fleetpest has the same cpu as a normal pest, meaning its not really a better shield tank than a normal pest.
while using the 7 lows on the macha for a proper armor tank is pretty easy, esp now your guns wont use any cap, you can fit more gyros and still have your perma-double-rep-tank with your ACs and 2 launchers...
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
dalman
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:59:00 -
[5]
Zero experience with agent missions? yep.
Zero experience with tempest? yep.
I'd still say,
if it's for agent PvE I'd def pick a Gist tanked Fleetpest.
If you gonna armor tank it I'd guess the phoon works much better than mach for PvE
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Mafarrico
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:01:00 -
[6]
Ok, i have both.
The Problem with the Fleet Tempest is that it's layout and numbers invite you to Shield tank, but then it doesn't quite give you the CPU to do it, while the armor tanked Machariel is a no brainer.
I'm still fiddling with the Tempest for short range/shield tank, for angel missions, where the explosive resistance makes things easier. The hope is that the sheer pirepower you get from 3-4 gyros kills the enemies that much faster, thus helping you tank. But since im not very rich, im taking it slowly.
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:04:00 -
[7]
the problem is.. many people think you can uber sheild tank the tempest.
but if you wanna use arts.. it needs tracking comps. where the machariel already have 25 % better.
+ the machariel have a 240 + basespeed. and can match some good transversial speeds.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:07:00 -
[8]
So someone help me out here.
Forgetting CPU issues and such for the moment, which modules would you use to shield tank a ship for PvE? Im not exactly up to speed on faction shield tanking. Im not really interested in having the ubberest-most-expensive-tank around, Im just interested in a tank that will work happily on level 4s. So no stupid officer mods :P
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06
Today's forum noob level : Rising.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:07:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Chode Rizoum
the problem is.. many people think you can uber sheild tank the tempest.
but if you wanna use arts.. it needs tracking comps. where the machariel already have 25 % better.
+ the machariel have a 240 + basespeed. and can match some good transversial speeds.
Yeah and that is what pretty much screws fleet tempy:P
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Dead already? |
keepiru
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:08:00 -
[10]
37.5% better tracking when the static content patch rolls in... thats nearly 2 inbuilt tracking compies.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
So someone help me out here.
Forgetting CPU issues and such for the moment, which modules would you use to shield tank a ship for PvE? Im not exactly up to speed on faction shield tanking. Im not really interested in having the ubberest-most-expensive-tank around, Im just interested in a tank that will work happily on level 4s. So no stupid officer mods :P
what are you exactly up to speed with ?
gist modules.. less cap usage and decent boosting.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
So someone help me out here.
Forgetting CPU issues and such for the moment, which modules would you use to shield tank a ship for PvE? Im not exactly up to speed on faction shield tanking. Im not really interested in having the ubberest-most-expensive-tank around, Im just interested in a tank that will work happily on level 4s. So no stupid officer mods :P
That's where it gets problematic... you really want sensor booster on the ship...
Somehow: gist xl, faction amp, 2x dg invul + dmg control = 4tw. But it costs 1.3bil+
Else you can fit 3 hardeners, and try to fix lock range with amps...
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Dead already? |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
what are you exactly up to speed with ?
Anything that doesnt involve carebearing.
The only faction mods I ever use are the ones on my Vagabonds :S
Originally by: keepiru
37.5% better tracking when the static content patch rolls in... thats nearly 2 inbuilt tracking compies.
I spose that kind of seals it. Well, not even kind of.
Machariel it is. Sigh, crosstraining ftlose :(
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06
Today's forum noob level : Rising.
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:13:00 -
[14]
Testy. you just sounded kinda cluseless. on your first post.
and some people do use gist x type stuff in pvp.
not only on stababonds
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:13:00 -
[15]
I assume minnie npcs perfectly follow the basic shield resist...
And then 4 slots for 2x Dread invulni, Gist booster and a nice amp should be enough.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
Testy. you just sounded kinda cluseless. on your first post.
and some people do use gist x type stuff in pvp.
not only on stababonds
Not clueless, just asking for opinions. Plus I really have no idea about the difference between A-Type/B-Type/WTF-Type/etc. I can look at quickfit all I want to see stats, but quickfit doesnt tell you which of them never got seeded and soforth :)
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06
Today's forum noob level : Rising.
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:15:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Chode Rizoum on 02/06/2006 12:15:22
Originally by: dalman
I assume minnie npcs perfectly follow the basic shield resist...
And then 4 slots for 2x Dread invulni, Gist booster and a nice amp should be enough.
if iam really bored and do a couple of belts in my tempest its just.
warp in at 80 km.
6 x 1400 II
1 x small gisti booster
2 x tracking comps
1 x sensor booster
1 x painter/mwd
4 x gyros
1 x tracking enhancher
1 x power diag..
takes 3 x 1.7 mill rats spawn easy.. and insta wolleys cruisers. you dont really need 2 bill worth of mods to npc
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:18:00 -
[18]
:) i just meant vagabonds in general. 95 % of people use stabs.. its pathetic
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FFGR
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: keepiru
37.5% better tracking when the static content patch rolls in... thats nearly 2 inbuilt tracking compies.
More like 1 and something (t2 tracking computer gives 30% tracking)
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siggys v. 0.5 |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 02/06/2006 12:17:59
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
if iam really bored and do a couple of belts in my tempest its just.
takes 3 x 1.7 mill rats spawn easy.. and insta wolleys cruisers. you dont really need 2 bill worth of mods to npc
I can beltrat all day in a Pest. But I want to do level 4 missions. Mostly cos I haven't done many before, and I want to be able to make money stress free when Im hungover, not in 0.0 :)
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06
Today's forum noob level : Rising.
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 02/06/2006 12:17:59
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
if iam really bored and do a couple of belts in my tempest its just.
takes 3 x 1.7 mill rats spawn easy.. and insta wolleys cruisers. you dont really need 2 bill worth of mods to npc
I can beltrat all day in a Pest. But I want to do level 4 missions. Mostly cos I haven't done many before, and I want to be able to make money stress free when Im hungover, not in 0.0 :)
cant help there.. i can only use a lvl 2 hauling ? agent in rens lol
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keepiru
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:27:00 -
[22]
yeah, that aint enough tank for lvl4s, unless you can get the sort of optimals a sniperthron can do - and even then youll have to get in close and get mucky on some missions - where close and mucky is ~40km and under where you actually need to tank.
even the tank on a raven will cop out on some lvl4s, 5 cpu-limited slots dont really cut it... not when you have say, 10-15 mixed gall/minnie or amarr/caldari navy bs traying to splat you.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:37:00 -
[23]
So if I want to not train Gallente BS, and I want to go with a Fleet Tempest, I'd be thinking
6x Domination 1400mm
2x Domination Cruise
Gist X-Type Large SB
Gist A-Type Amp
2x Dread Guristas Invuln Field
2x Tracking Computer II
3x Gyro II
3x PDU II
Now, my PvE-level4-noob ass would think that that constitutes a tank for when Im up close with battleships, but does it have a chance in hell of holding up in tough deadspace warpins? Does it need more tank and less gank? Am I just dreaming that artillery is ever going to work in deadspace missions?
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06
Today's forum noob level : Rising.
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:40:00 -
[24]
If you gonna fit out a Bil+ ship then buy the one that looks more badass to you.
Caldari - BS idea |
Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
So if I want to not train Gallente BS, and I want to go with a Fleet Tempest, I'd be thinking
6x Domination 1400mm
2x Domination Cruise
Gist X-Type Large SB
Gist A-Type Amp
2x Dread Guristas Invuln Field
2x Tracking Computer II
3x Gyro II
3x PDU II
Now, my PvE-level4-noob ass would think that that constitutes a tank for when Im up close with battleships, but does it have a chance in hell of holding up in tough deadspace warpins? Does it need more tank and less gank? Am I just dreaming that artillery is ever going to work in deadspace missions?
1400 II vs domi 1400 is almost the same lol.. except the 500 % price diffrence
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keepiru
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
So if I want to not train Gallente BS, and I want to go with a Fleet Tempest, I'd be thinking
6x Domination 1400mm
2x Domination Cruise
Gist X-Type Large SB
Gist A-Type Amp
2x Dread Guristas Invuln Field
2x Tracking Computer II
3x Gyro II
3x PDU II
Now, my PvE-level4-noob ass would think that that constitutes a tank for when Im up close with battleships, but does it have a chance in hell of holding up in tough deadspace warpins? Does it need more tank and less gank? Am I just dreaming that artillery is ever going to work in deadspace missions?
Thats a decent tank - if it fits - but you have to remember the longer lvl4s last up to 4+ hours, youll be doing LOTS of warping out with that because it has no lasting power... though again it depends very much on the mission, some let you choose your distances some drop you into the middle of webbing/scrambling ceptors and at the optimal of multiple BS.
In any case you need good drone skills, or you die feeling like a right nub because of the 1 guardian veteran/arch angel viper/blah thats keeping you there.
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chode Rizoum
1400 II vs domi 1400 is almost the same lol.. except the 500 % price diffrence
Mostly, but fitting domi 1400mms is cheaper than fitting domi gyros iirc, and you egt more benefit; T2 ammo is probably bad in angel missions due to the tracking reduction and the fast moving BSes. Im guessing, of course.
Where is does save you, though, is a ton of grid per cannon. Which means you can armour tank the ship, like all the cool kids do with Machariels. Im lookin at doin that too on quickfit :P
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06
Today's forum noob level : Rising.
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Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:51:00 -
[28]
and if you invest some isk into the 2 dmg implants you can get your 1400 II op to 18.8034720096 x
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keepiru
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:51:00 -
[29]
Anyway doesent fitting 6x 1400IIs leave you with like less than 200MW to spare with AWU V?
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: keepiru
Anyway doesent fitting 6x 1400IIs leave you with like less than 200MW to spare with AWU V?
but you stat you have 3 power diags II fitted anyways
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