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Random discussion of the day: Fleet Tempest vs Machariel

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Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 11:43:00 - [1] Edited by: Testy Mctest on 02/06/2006 11:43:19 For the following discussion, please assume PvE. As much as I'd like to regularly PvP in one of these ships, Im not quite that rich yet :P Im intending to start farming some level 4s with my Minmatar character. Now, only ever having done level 4s in a Raven, and then not having done what I'd call a lot, Im somewhat of a noob at this. So Im going to either train Gallente BS and fly a Machariel (I dont like cross training....) or, preferably, fly a Fleet Issue Tempest. Now, all the cool kids fly Machariels. But is it really a better ship? -It has 500 less shields and armour (minor in pve) than the fleetpest -It has a different slot layout (neither here nor there, or is it?) -It moves faster than the fleetpest (good thing) -It has better guns than a fleetpest (more bonuses) Now given, time = money and so the Machariel being a faster ship is a good thing. Also, its guns are better, but how evident is this? I'm going to be looking at 20% tracking increase as I'll train Gallente BS 4 if it comes to it, but 20% on 1400mms, I dunno. And +tracking on autocannons, seems a bit bump for PvE. I dont really care about cost of fleetpest vs machariel, what I really care about is whether the Machariel is so much better that it's worth me wasting two weeks training on. Please discuss, and help a noob carebear make a decision. Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Neutral.
VeNT	Posted - 2006.06.02 11:46:00 - [2] tbh, Machariel are for close range (hence tracking bonus) and tempests are long range it depends what you are good at tbh. if your ok being upclose with a Angel BS or three (where their range comes into play) then ok, if you want to range it out and snipe then go for the tempest tbh. but anyway, phoons rock more. -------------------- Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet!
Calisto Cody	Posted - 2006.06.02 11:47:00 - [3] Edited by: Calisto Cody on 02/06/2006 11:47:30 my corp mate uses one, and that ship (mach) is pure hax, fast as hell, it goes faster than my enyo ffs, and tanks like a mofo, and its fire power is not weak, plus fleet issue has stupid square sails ewwww edit : they use a long range mach too The Black Swan Society Berneh is not appropriate for the forums -
keepiru	Posted - 2006.06.02 11:49:00 - [4] remember tracking bonuses are getting boosted in the static content path, itll be 7.5% per level = 30% tracking. as for the slots (thats the main difference here), the fleetpest has the same cpu as a normal pest, meaning its not really a better shield tank than a normal pest. while using the 7 lows on the macha for a proper armor tank is pretty easy, esp now your guns wont use any cap, you can fit more gyros and still have your perma-double-rep-tank with your ACs and 2 launchers... ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
dalman	Posted - 2006.06.02 11:59:00 - [5] Zero experience with agent missions? yep. Zero experience with tempest? yep. I'd still say, if it's for agent PvE I'd def pick a Gist tanked Fleetpest. If you gonna armor tank it I'd guess the phoon works much better than mach for PvE Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Mafarrico	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:01:00 - [6] Ok, i have both. The Problem with the Fleet Tempest is that it's layout and numbers invite you to Shield tank, but then it doesn't quite give you the CPU to do it, while the armor tanked Machariel is a no brainer. I'm still fiddling with the Tempest for short range/shield tank, for angel missions, where the explosive resistance makes things easier. The hope is that the sheer pirepower you get from 3-4 gyros kills the enemies that much faster, thus helping you tank. But since im not very rich, im taking it slowly.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:04:00 - [7] the problem is.. many people think you can uber sheild tank the tempest. but if you wanna use arts.. it needs tracking comps. where the machariel already have 25 % better. + the machariel have a 240 + basespeed. and can match some good transversial speeds.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:07:00 - [8] So someone help me out here. Forgetting CPU issues and such for the moment, which modules would you use to shield tank a ship for PvE? Im not exactly up to speed on faction shield tanking. Im not really interested in having the ubberest-most-expensive-tank around, Im just interested in a tank that will work happily on level 4s. So no stupid officer mods :P Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:07:00 - [9] Originally by: Chode Rizoum the problem is.. many people think you can uber sheild tank the tempest. but if you wanna use arts.. it needs tracking comps. where the machariel already have 25 % better. + the machariel have a 240 + basespeed. and can match some good transversial speeds. Yeah and that is what pretty much screws fleet tempy:P --------- Dead already?
keepiru	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:08:00 - [10] 37.5% better tracking when the static content patch rolls in... thats nearly 2 inbuilt tracking compies. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Testy Mctest So someone help me out here. Forgetting CPU issues and such for the moment, which modules would you use to shield tank a ship for PvE? Im not exactly up to speed on faction shield tanking. Im not really interested in having the ubberest-most-expensive-tank around, Im just interested in a tank that will work happily on level 4s. So no stupid officer mods :P what are you exactly up to speed with ? gist modules.. less cap usage and decent boosting.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Testy Mctest So someone help me out here. Forgetting CPU issues and such for the moment, which modules would you use to shield tank a ship for PvE? Im not exactly up to speed on faction shield tanking. Im not really interested in having the ubberest-most-expensive-tank around, Im just interested in a tank that will work happily on level 4s. So no stupid officer mods :P That's where it gets problematic... you really want sensor booster on the ship... Somehow: gist xl, faction amp, 2x dg invul + dmg control = 4tw. But it costs 1.3bil+ Else you can fit 3 hardeners, and try to fix lock range with amps... --------- Dead already?
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Chode Rizoum what are you exactly up to speed with ? Anything that doesnt involve carebearing. The only faction mods I ever use are the ones on my Vagabonds :S Originally by: keepiru 37.5% better tracking when the static content patch rolls in... thats nearly 2 inbuilt tracking compies. I spose that kind of seals it. Well, not even kind of. Machariel it is. Sigh, crosstraining ftlose :( Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:13:00 - [14] Testy. you just sounded kinda cluseless. on your first post. and some people do use gist x type stuff in pvp. not only on stababonds
dalman	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:13:00 - [15] I assume minnie npcs perfectly follow the basic shield resist... And then 4 slots for 2x Dread invulni, Gist booster and a nice amp should be enough. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Chode Rizoum Testy. you just sounded kinda cluseless. on your first post. and some people do use gist x type stuff in pvp. not only on stababonds Not clueless, just asking for opinions. Plus I really have no idea about the difference between A-Type/B-Type/WTF-Type/etc. I can look at quickfit all I want to see stats, but quickfit doesnt tell you which of them never got seeded and soforth :) Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:15:00 - [17] Edited by: Chode Rizoum on 02/06/2006 12:15:22 Originally by: dalman I assume minnie npcs perfectly follow the basic shield resist... And then 4 slots for 2x Dread invulni, Gist booster and a nice amp should be enough. if iam really bored and do a couple of belts in my tempest its just. warp in at 80 km. 6 x 1400 II 1 x small gisti booster 2 x tracking comps 1 x sensor booster 1 x painter/mwd 4 x gyros 1 x tracking enhancher 1 x power diag.. takes 3 x 1.7 mill rats spawn easy.. and insta wolleys cruisers. you dont really need 2 bill worth of mods to npc
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:18:00 - [18] :) i just meant vagabonds in general. 95 % of people use stabs.. its pathetic
FFGR	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:18:00 - [19] Originally by: keepiru 37.5% better tracking when the static content patch rolls in... thats nearly 2 inbuilt tracking compies. More like 1 and something (t2 tracking computer gives 30% tracking) _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:18:00 - [20] Edited by: Testy Mctest on 02/06/2006 12:17:59 Originally by: Chode Rizoum if iam really bored and do a couple of belts in my tempest its just. takes 3 x 1.7 mill rats spawn easy.. and insta wolleys cruisers. you dont really need 2 bill worth of mods to npc I can beltrat all day in a Pest. But I want to do level 4 missions. Mostly cos I haven't done many before, and I want to be able to make money stress free when Im hungover, not in 0.0 :) Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Testy Mctest Edited by: Testy Mctest on 02/06/2006 12:17:59 Originally by: Chode Rizoum if iam really bored and do a couple of belts in my tempest its just. takes 3 x 1.7 mill rats spawn easy.. and insta wolleys cruisers. you dont really need 2 bill worth of mods to npc I can beltrat all day in a Pest. But I want to do level 4 missions. Mostly cos I haven't done many before, and I want to be able to make money stress free when Im hungover, not in 0.0 :) cant help there.. i can only use a lvl 2 hauling ? agent in rens lol
keepiru	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:27:00 - [22] yeah, that aint enough tank for lvl4s, unless you can get the sort of optimals a sniperthron can do - and even then youll have to get in close and get mucky on some missions - where close and mucky is ~40km and under where you actually need to tank. even the tank on a raven will cop out on some lvl4s, 5 cpu-limited slots dont really cut it... not when you have say, 10-15 mixed gall/minnie or amarr/caldari navy bs traying to splat you. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:37:00 - [23] So if I want to not train Gallente BS, and I want to go with a Fleet Tempest, I'd be thinking 6x Domination 1400mm 2x Domination Cruise Gist X-Type Large SB Gist A-Type Amp 2x Dread Guristas Invuln Field 2x Tracking Computer II 3x Gyro II 3x PDU II Now, my PvE-level4-noob ass would think that that constitutes a tank for when Im up close with battleships, but does it have a chance in hell of holding up in tough deadspace warpins? Does it need more tank and less gank? Am I just dreaming that artillery is ever going to work in deadspace missions? Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:40:00 - [24] If you gonna fit out a Bil+ ship then buy the one that looks more badass to you. Caldari - BS idea
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Testy Mctest So if I want to not train Gallente BS, and I want to go with a Fleet Tempest, I'd be thinking 6x Domination 1400mm 2x Domination Cruise Gist X-Type Large SB Gist A-Type Amp 2x Dread Guristas Invuln Field 2x Tracking Computer II 3x Gyro II 3x PDU II Now, my PvE-level4-noob ass would think that that constitutes a tank for when Im up close with battleships, but does it have a chance in hell of holding up in tough deadspace warpins? Does it need more tank and less gank? Am I just dreaming that artillery is ever going to work in deadspace missions? 1400 II vs domi 1400 is almost the same lol.. except the 500 % price diffrence
keepiru	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Testy Mctest So if I want to not train Gallente BS, and I want to go with a Fleet Tempest, I'd be thinking 6x Domination 1400mm 2x Domination Cruise Gist X-Type Large SB Gist A-Type Amp 2x Dread Guristas Invuln Field 2x Tracking Computer II 3x Gyro II 3x PDU II Now, my PvE-level4-noob ass would think that that constitutes a tank for when Im up close with battleships, but does it have a chance in hell of holding up in tough deadspace warpins? Does it need more tank and less gank? Am I just dreaming that artillery is ever going to work in deadspace missions? Thats a decent tank - if it fits - but you have to remember the longer lvl4s last up to 4+ hours, youll be doing LOTS of warping out with that because it has no lasting power... though again it depends very much on the mission, some let you choose your distances some drop you into the middle of webbing/scrambling ceptors and at the optimal of multiple BS. In any case you need good drone skills, or you die feeling like a right nub because of the 1 guardian veteran/arch angel viper/blah thats keeping you there. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Chode Rizoum 1400 II vs domi 1400 is almost the same lol.. except the 500 % price diffrence Mostly, but fitting domi 1400mms is cheaper than fitting domi gyros iirc, and you egt more benefit; T2 ammo is probably bad in angel missions due to the tracking reduction and the fast moving BSes. Im guessing, of course. Where is does save you, though, is a ton of grid per cannon. Which means you can armour tank the ship, like all the cool kids do with Machariels. Im lookin at doin that too on quickfit :P Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:51:00 - [28] and if you invest some isk into the 2 dmg implants you can get your 1400 II op to 18.8034720096 x
keepiru	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:51:00 - [29] Anyway doesent fitting 6x 1400IIs leave you with like less than 200MW to spare with AWU V? ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:53:00 - [30] Originally by: keepiru Anyway doesent fitting 6x 1400IIs leave you with like less than 200MW to spare with AWU V? but you stat you have 3 power diags II fitted anyways
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:55:00 - [31] Originally by: Chode Rizoum Domination 1400mm Howitzer 16.596x dmg mod 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 18.256x dmg mod so if you have good skills.. there is no reason in the world to fit domi 1400s.. this is with 4 gyros Domi arty has a 1.19s faster RoF though, so theyre actually fairly close in DPS. And thats a lot less grid they use. Although, its a fair point. Im starting to think Autocannons might make me happier, to be honest, with a couple of assault launchers to supplement the drones. This is great, I feel like a noob again, full of wonder and anticipation :P Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Chode Rizoum Domination 1400mm Howitzer 16.596x dmg mod 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 18.256x dmg mod so if you have good skills.. there is no reason in the world to fit domi 1400s.. this is with 4 gyros Domi arty has a 1.19s faster RoF though, so theyre actually fairly close in DPS. And thats a lot less grid they use. Although, its a fair point. Im starting to think Autocannons might make me happier, to be honest, with a couple of assault launchers to supplement the drones. This is great, I feel like a noob again, full of wonder and anticipation :P that is true. but on artillerys you normal go for a higher dmg mod. bcus of the alpha strike.
keepiru	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:00:00 - [33] i think most people use cruise along with their acs, gives you a good balance of anit-bs and anti-cruiser dps + you can fit omgprecisioncruiseh4x. grid wont be an issue. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Diana Merris	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:03:00 - [34] The Gisti mods would make that good enough for most missions but not for some. Especially since its only a large SB. My tank on my tempest is 3x T2 rat specific hardeners, an Amp and a T2 XL booster (and a LG crystal set). There are some rooms that hit so hard that it won't keep up with the damage. Thats over 1000dps in raw damage it can handle and the shields still drop fast. You take that much damage because you are mutliply webbed by all the interceptors. Drones and launchers to kill the inties as fast as possible are the key to surviving the hard missions.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Chode Rizoum that is true. but on artillerys you normal go for a higher dmg mod. bcus of the alpha strike. Not in PvE, you dont. In fact, post patch, 1200mms might well be a good alternative to 1400mms as they're so close in DPS. You could fit a dual rep armour tank then. More hmm. Machariel with T2 ACs + T2 Cruise X-Type Booster/Some Amp/DG Invuln x2/Domi AB PDUs and Gyros is looking like it's shaping up to be a winner, to be honest. So basically, I could have read this fitting in any of the Machariel threads. Ha. Thats what I get for trying to be different. Maybe I'll just fit it all to a fleetpest, Im sure it'll still manage. Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Chode Rizoum that is true. but on artillerys you normal go for a higher dmg mod. bcus of the alpha strike. Not in PvE, you dont. In fact, post patch, 1200mms might well be a good alternative to 1400mms as they're so close in DPS. You could fit a dual rep armour tank then. More hmm. Machariel with T2 ACs + T2 Cruise X-Type Booster/Some Amp/DG Invuln x2/Domi AB PDUs and Gyros is looking like it's shaping up to be a winner, to be honest. So basically, I could have read this fitting in any of the Machariel threads. Ha. Thats what I get for trying to be different. Maybe I'll just fit it all to a fleetpest, Im sure it'll still manage. :P do you know how fast tech II acs.. uses ammo... you gonner have to run back after ammo very soon. and i whould still say high dmg mod in pve. because insta removing things is awsome
dabster	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:09:00 - [37] I wouldnt dream of doing lvl 4's in any sniping ship heh. I know some people do it but i suppose they know exactly which ones to turn down, there are just so many missions that start right smack in your face with insta-aggroing frigs. Being scrambled and triple webbed is only really 'so' much fun, especially if its in a missions where you cant use drones because of the bug that aggros the entire room. Artys are really good fast and easy to beltrat with if you got skills, but AC and tank is about 400 times safer for lvl 4 tbh ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
dabster	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Chode Rizoum Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Chode Rizoum that is true. but on artillerys you normal go for a higher dmg mod. bcus of the alpha strike. Not in PvE, you dont. In fact, post patch, 1200mms might well be a good alternative to 1400mms as they're so close in DPS. You could fit a dual rep armour tank then. More hmm. Machariel with T2 ACs + T2 Cruise X-Type Booster/Some Amp/DG Invuln x2/Domi AB PDUs and Gyros is looking like it's shaping up to be a winner, to be honest. So basically, I could have read this fitting in any of the Machariel threads. Ha. Thats what I get for trying to be different. Maybe I'll just fit it all to a fleetpest, Im sure it'll still manage. :P do you know how fast tech II acs.. uses ammo... you gonner have to run back after ammo very soon. and i whould still say high dmg mod in pve. because insta removing things is awsome I agree on going the high damage-route BUT not in missions. Belting is a totally different topic :P ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Testy Mctest Machariel with T2 ACs + T2 Cruise X-Type Booster/Some Amp/DG Invuln x2/Domi AB PDUs and Gyros 4 slot shield tank is quite meh, even with expensive faction fittings. And you'll cry the first time you CTD in the middle of a big spawn You're also missing a web. Anyhow, why not armor tank? 1x Centus X-Type LAR + 4 hardeners is fully sustainable and good enough to tank just about all lvl4 missions. It's what I use on my Navy Apoc 95% of the time. There are only a handful of missions that require moving to dual Centus X-Type LARs.
Diana Merris	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:24:00 - [40] I ran an AC setup for a good while. I works but the ammo use can be a real pain sometimes. Filling your hold with ammo before the mission and still having to go back to get more on longer missions (sometimes multiple times). I find myself much happier with 1200s and assault launchers now and have a better tank without the AB.
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:36:00 - [41] only advice i could give you testy is that no matter which ship you use for lvl4`s, be that the Tempest or Machariel, 1400`s or 1200`s will get you killed on most stuff that is deadspace, dual 650`s and cruise missiles are your freind, and i assume you will be going agaisnt angels so a sheild tank is a must, im guessing the fleet tempest will be the better ship for you, with 6 med slots you can fit a great sheild tank and also leave yourself 1 slot for the essential webby, i know the mach gets the extra tracking bonus but for lvl4`s this is not of great importance, infact the fleet tempest should infact have the same ammount of bonus`s imho plus everyone flies a mach these days, getting a fleet tempest would make you a bit different --------------------------------------------- Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:37:00 - [42] I would say it depends on cash. If you have a fairly decent amount of cash, take an t2-using armor tanking machariel. If you have a huge amount of cash, take a gist-using shield tank tempest. To be honest, i think i'd be happiest with the machariel with a gist AB and total control over the range (not to mention pretty awesome tracking for projectiles with a couple of TCs fitted and that bonus). Gist AB machariel is quite amazingly fast and agile for a BS. Most lvl4s are deadspace, so MWD is out of the question.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:44:00 - [43] Originally by: HippoKing I would say it depends on cash. If you have a fairly decent amount of cash, take an t2-using armor tanking machariel. If you have a huge amount of cash, take a gist-using shield tank tempest. To be honest, i think i'd be happiest with the machariel with a gist AB and total control over the range (not to mention pretty awesome tracking for projectiles with a couple of TCs fitted and that bonus). Gist AB machariel is quite amazingly fast and agile for a BS. Most lvl4s are deadspace, so MWD is out of the question. What weapons are you thinking of in the above? Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Mafarrico	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Testy Mctest What weapons are you thinking of in the above? I'm curious too. First thought was AC's as thats what an effective armor tank let's you fit. But if you are going with TC's in Medium, that may mean a lighter armor tank, only enough to get you the distanc you need for say... 1200's? Maybe a 2 Med Reps tank?
Greenbolt	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:23:00 - [45] Edited by: Greenbolt on 02/06/2006 15:23:53 Ive been doing L4s alot...and the one thing to plan for...is those missions where you come outta a mission jump gate and there are 5-6 webbers ontop of you that may or may not scramble.top speed 1.4 was what i hit lastn ight. Drones and missiles helped me clear out the webbers while my ACs popped as many cruisers as I could until it let me warp out. Second warp in was much easier with the webbers gone. Im not sure how an Arty tempest could do that kinda mission without alot of risk though..because the ships are soo close..and your simply not going anywhere (unless there is a counter to webbing I dont know about)) Edit - alot for a 7 month noob
HankMurphy	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:30:00 - [46] Edited by: HankMurphy on 02/06/2006 15:30:45 if you want artillery & armor tank, you want the machariel if you want ACs & shield tank, go w/ the fleet temp. If you want to mix and match the above.... Like someone said above, shield tank is retarded w/ howies because you want tracking comps. I know the mach's bonuses, and that aside, you'll still want at least one good track comp. Armor tank w/ ACs works fine on either ship ofcourse, range to target so important (expecially vs Blasterthron) that the machariel probly takes the cake here too because of the speed bonus edit to add: you really shouldn't have a problem fitting either. May need a CPU II on a couple setups, but outside of that I've never had a prob fitting
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:52:00 - [47] Originally by: Testy Mctest So if I want to not train Gallente BS, and I want to go with a Fleet Tempest, I'd be thinking Train up the Gallante BS to 4 (if not 5) to use the Machariel. It looks so much better than the Fleet Tempest. Sure its only going to take you a week or so ad you know you want to.
M00dy	Posted - 2006.06.02 16:06:00 - [48] I recomend just using a regular ol Tempest with ACs and an Armor tank. I used to solo lvl 4s with 6 mil SPs.
Pandora S	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:18:00 - [49] Originally by: M00dy I recomend just using a regular ol Tempest with ACs and an Armor tank. I used to solo lvl 4s with 6 mil SPs. What was your setup??
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:31:00 - [50] Lsat time i checked Mach was 500mil and tempest was 1.5bil Tempest might have come down some, but it's still gonna be atleast twice as expensive for not really any better.
Farjung	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Necrologic Lsat time i checked Mach was 500mil and tempest was 1.5bil Tempest might have come down some, but it's still gonna be atleast twice as expensive for not really any better. There's a minnie cosmos mission that is somewhat farmable, that has been injecting a lot of fleet pests into circulation. Consequently the price is down to 700 mill (or less). --- Wave of Mutilation 2
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:52:00 - [52] Originally by: Pandora S Originally by: M00dy I recomend just using a regular ol Tempest with ACs and an Armor tank. I used to solo lvl 4s with 6 mil SPs. What was your setup?? Probably 4x siege, 4x ac and before missiles were changed :P To testy... consider phoon if you don't want expensive shield tank. --------- Dead already?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:59:00 - [53] Originally by: LUKEC To testy... consider phoon if you don't want expensive shield tank. or just use the damn raven like everyone else :). Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.06.02 23:03:00 - [54] Fleet tempests are below 700m now ( i would not buy them for 500m if i saw them on escrow for that) My personal opinion on this is that neither a machariel nor the tempest offer what you are looking for, pve in semi-afk mode. Autocannons have the problem that you have to be in range to do damage. Due to the layout of the deadspace missions, you might end up aggro-ing another group of NPCs. Maybe its avoidable, but its so much easier in a raven when you only need to align for warp in case of aggro bugs (or aproach the next gate if your tank can hold the entire stage). If you are comfortable with rejecting missions, get a shield tanked AC machariel and just ignore the missions that would get you killed. A gist b-type XL booster and cheap b-type hardeners + DG invuls (depending on mobs) should work good enough against all encounter missions and the easy deadspace missions. I actually know people who use dual gistii SBs on a raven, the damage output of groups is not the problem. Only full stage aggro is what can get you killed. An interesting option is to invest in a partial crystal set (on your carebear clone) and gist tank to be able to tank full stage aggro of all interesting missions up to the extravagancas, and ignore the new missions against empire navies entirely. Basically, if the mission has more then one part, chances are high you will end up killing empire ships, and unless you happen to roleplay, there is no point to ruin your standing for the chance to get your 2b ship killed in a difficult mission. Problem with mimmatar agents is simple: both +5 implants and fleet tempests have dropped to a level where its not really worth it to accept the offers, and there are no other offers aviable. +3 Implants and skill books are dropping in price as well, albeit slowly. A caldari mission runner gets 400-500m out of the 200k LP + 500m (standard cash-out offer), a minmatar runner should be happy to get 100-200.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.02 23:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: LUKEC To testy... consider phoon if you don't want expensive shield tank. or just use the damn raven like everyone else :). I was doing them in domi... afk lesson in 99% ... in that 1% i was on good ss sitting in pod:P Testy is selling his caldari alt, so don't .... --------- Dead already?

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