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Random discussion of the day: Fleet Tempest vs Machariel

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Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:55:00 - [31] Originally by: Chode Rizoum Domination 1400mm Howitzer 16.596x dmg mod 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 18.256x dmg mod so if you have good skills.. there is no reason in the world to fit domi 1400s.. this is with 4 gyros Domi arty has a 1.19s faster RoF though, so theyre actually fairly close in DPS. And thats a lot less grid they use. Although, its a fair point. Im starting to think Autocannons might make me happier, to be honest, with a couple of assault launchers to supplement the drones. This is great, I feel like a noob again, full of wonder and anticipation :P Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 12:57:00 - [32] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Chode Rizoum Domination 1400mm Howitzer 16.596x dmg mod 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 18.256x dmg mod so if you have good skills.. there is no reason in the world to fit domi 1400s.. this is with 4 gyros Domi arty has a 1.19s faster RoF though, so theyre actually fairly close in DPS. And thats a lot less grid they use. Although, its a fair point. Im starting to think Autocannons might make me happier, to be honest, with a couple of assault launchers to supplement the drones. This is great, I feel like a noob again, full of wonder and anticipation :P that is true. but on artillerys you normal go for a higher dmg mod. bcus of the alpha strike.
keepiru	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:00:00 - [33] i think most people use cruise along with their acs, gives you a good balance of anit-bs and anti-cruiser dps + you can fit omgprecisioncruiseh4x. grid wont be an issue. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Diana Merris	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:03:00 - [34] The Gisti mods would make that good enough for most missions but not for some. Especially since its only a large SB. My tank on my tempest is 3x T2 rat specific hardeners, an Amp and a T2 XL booster (and a LG crystal set). There are some rooms that hit so hard that it won't keep up with the damage. Thats over 1000dps in raw damage it can handle and the shields still drop fast. You take that much damage because you are mutliply webbed by all the interceptors. Drones and launchers to kill the inties as fast as possible are the key to surviving the hard missions.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Chode Rizoum that is true. but on artillerys you normal go for a higher dmg mod. bcus of the alpha strike. Not in PvE, you dont. In fact, post patch, 1200mms might well be a good alternative to 1400mms as they're so close in DPS. You could fit a dual rep armour tank then. More hmm. Machariel with T2 ACs + T2 Cruise X-Type Booster/Some Amp/DG Invuln x2/Domi AB PDUs and Gyros is looking like it's shaping up to be a winner, to be honest. So basically, I could have read this fitting in any of the Machariel threads. Ha. Thats what I get for trying to be different. Maybe I'll just fit it all to a fleetpest, Im sure it'll still manage. Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Chode Rizoum that is true. but on artillerys you normal go for a higher dmg mod. bcus of the alpha strike. Not in PvE, you dont. In fact, post patch, 1200mms might well be a good alternative to 1400mms as they're so close in DPS. You could fit a dual rep armour tank then. More hmm. Machariel with T2 ACs + T2 Cruise X-Type Booster/Some Amp/DG Invuln x2/Domi AB PDUs and Gyros is looking like it's shaping up to be a winner, to be honest. So basically, I could have read this fitting in any of the Machariel threads. Ha. Thats what I get for trying to be different. Maybe I'll just fit it all to a fleetpest, Im sure it'll still manage. :P do you know how fast tech II acs.. uses ammo... you gonner have to run back after ammo very soon. and i whould still say high dmg mod in pve. because insta removing things is awsome
dabster	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:09:00 - [37] I wouldnt dream of doing lvl 4's in any sniping ship heh. I know some people do it but i suppose they know exactly which ones to turn down, there are just so many missions that start right smack in your face with insta-aggroing frigs. Being scrambled and triple webbed is only really 'so' much fun, especially if its in a missions where you cant use drones because of the bug that aggros the entire room. Artys are really good fast and easy to beltrat with if you got skills, but AC and tank is about 400 times safer for lvl 4 tbh ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
dabster	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Chode Rizoum Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Chode Rizoum that is true. but on artillerys you normal go for a higher dmg mod. bcus of the alpha strike. Not in PvE, you dont. In fact, post patch, 1200mms might well be a good alternative to 1400mms as they're so close in DPS. You could fit a dual rep armour tank then. More hmm. Machariel with T2 ACs + T2 Cruise X-Type Booster/Some Amp/DG Invuln x2/Domi AB PDUs and Gyros is looking like it's shaping up to be a winner, to be honest. So basically, I could have read this fitting in any of the Machariel threads. Ha. Thats what I get for trying to be different. Maybe I'll just fit it all to a fleetpest, Im sure it'll still manage. :P do you know how fast tech II acs.. uses ammo... you gonner have to run back after ammo very soon. and i whould still say high dmg mod in pve. because insta removing things is awsome I agree on going the high damage-route BUT not in missions. Belting is a totally different topic :P ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Testy Mctest Machariel with T2 ACs + T2 Cruise X-Type Booster/Some Amp/DG Invuln x2/Domi AB PDUs and Gyros 4 slot shield tank is quite meh, even with expensive faction fittings. And you'll cry the first time you CTD in the middle of a big spawn You're also missing a web. Anyhow, why not armor tank? 1x Centus X-Type LAR + 4 hardeners is fully sustainable and good enough to tank just about all lvl4 missions. It's what I use on my Navy Apoc 95% of the time. There are only a handful of missions that require moving to dual Centus X-Type LARs.
Diana Merris	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:24:00 - [40] I ran an AC setup for a good while. I works but the ammo use can be a real pain sometimes. Filling your hold with ammo before the mission and still having to go back to get more on longer missions (sometimes multiple times). I find myself much happier with 1200s and assault launchers now and have a better tank without the AB.
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:36:00 - [41] only advice i could give you testy is that no matter which ship you use for lvl4`s, be that the Tempest or Machariel, 1400`s or 1200`s will get you killed on most stuff that is deadspace, dual 650`s and cruise missiles are your freind, and i assume you will be going agaisnt angels so a sheild tank is a must, im guessing the fleet tempest will be the better ship for you, with 6 med slots you can fit a great sheild tank and also leave yourself 1 slot for the essential webby, i know the mach gets the extra tracking bonus but for lvl4`s this is not of great importance, infact the fleet tempest should infact have the same ammount of bonus`s imho plus everyone flies a mach these days, getting a fleet tempest would make you a bit different --------------------------------------------- Please resize your forum signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:37:00 - [42] I would say it depends on cash. If you have a fairly decent amount of cash, take an t2-using armor tanking machariel. If you have a huge amount of cash, take a gist-using shield tank tempest. To be honest, i think i'd be happiest with the machariel with a gist AB and total control over the range (not to mention pretty awesome tracking for projectiles with a couple of TCs fitted and that bonus). Gist AB machariel is quite amazingly fast and agile for a BS. Most lvl4s are deadspace, so MWD is out of the question.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.02 13:44:00 - [43] Originally by: HippoKing I would say it depends on cash. If you have a fairly decent amount of cash, take an t2-using armor tanking machariel. If you have a huge amount of cash, take a gist-using shield tank tempest. To be honest, i think i'd be happiest with the machariel with a gist AB and total control over the range (not to mention pretty awesome tracking for projectiles with a couple of TCs fitted and that bonus). Gist AB machariel is quite amazingly fast and agile for a BS. Most lvl4s are deadspace, so MWD is out of the question. What weapons are you thinking of in the above? Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 01/06/06 Today's forum noob level : Rising.
Mafarrico	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Testy Mctest What weapons are you thinking of in the above? I'm curious too. First thought was AC's as thats what an effective armor tank let's you fit. But if you are going with TC's in Medium, that may mean a lighter armor tank, only enough to get you the distanc you need for say... 1200's? Maybe a 2 Med Reps tank?
Greenbolt	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:23:00 - [45] Edited by: Greenbolt on 02/06/2006 15:23:53 Ive been doing L4s alot...and the one thing to plan for...is those missions where you come outta a mission jump gate and there are 5-6 webbers ontop of you that may or may not scramble.top speed 1.4 was what i hit lastn ight. Drones and missiles helped me clear out the webbers while my ACs popped as many cruisers as I could until it let me warp out. Second warp in was much easier with the webbers gone. Im not sure how an Arty tempest could do that kinda mission without alot of risk though..because the ships are soo close..and your simply not going anywhere (unless there is a counter to webbing I dont know about)) Edit - alot for a 7 month noob
HankMurphy	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:30:00 - [46] Edited by: HankMurphy on 02/06/2006 15:30:45 if you want artillery & armor tank, you want the machariel if you want ACs & shield tank, go w/ the fleet temp. If you want to mix and match the above.... Like someone said above, shield tank is retarded w/ howies because you want tracking comps. I know the mach's bonuses, and that aside, you'll still want at least one good track comp. Armor tank w/ ACs works fine on either ship ofcourse, range to target so important (expecially vs Blasterthron) that the machariel probly takes the cake here too because of the speed bonus edit to add: you really shouldn't have a problem fitting either. May need a CPU II on a couple setups, but outside of that I've never had a prob fitting
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.02 15:52:00 - [47] Originally by: Testy Mctest So if I want to not train Gallente BS, and I want to go with a Fleet Tempest, I'd be thinking Train up the Gallante BS to 4 (if not 5) to use the Machariel. It looks so much better than the Fleet Tempest. Sure its only going to take you a week or so ad you know you want to.
M00dy	Posted - 2006.06.02 16:06:00 - [48] I recomend just using a regular ol Tempest with ACs and an Armor tank. I used to solo lvl 4s with 6 mil SPs.
Pandora S	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:18:00 - [49] Originally by: M00dy I recomend just using a regular ol Tempest with ACs and an Armor tank. I used to solo lvl 4s with 6 mil SPs. What was your setup??
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:31:00 - [50] Lsat time i checked Mach was 500mil and tempest was 1.5bil Tempest might have come down some, but it's still gonna be atleast twice as expensive for not really any better.
Farjung	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Necrologic Lsat time i checked Mach was 500mil and tempest was 1.5bil Tempest might have come down some, but it's still gonna be atleast twice as expensive for not really any better. There's a minnie cosmos mission that is somewhat farmable, that has been injecting a lot of fleet pests into circulation. Consequently the price is down to 700 mill (or less). --- Wave of Mutilation 2
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:52:00 - [52] Originally by: Pandora S Originally by: M00dy I recomend just using a regular ol Tempest with ACs and an Armor tank. I used to solo lvl 4s with 6 mil SPs. What was your setup?? Probably 4x siege, 4x ac and before missiles were changed :P To testy... consider phoon if you don't want expensive shield tank. --------- Dead already?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.02 22:59:00 - [53] Originally by: LUKEC To testy... consider phoon if you don't want expensive shield tank. or just use the damn raven like everyone else :). Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.06.02 23:03:00 - [54] Fleet tempests are below 700m now ( i would not buy them for 500m if i saw them on escrow for that) My personal opinion on this is that neither a machariel nor the tempest offer what you are looking for, pve in semi-afk mode. Autocannons have the problem that you have to be in range to do damage. Due to the layout of the deadspace missions, you might end up aggro-ing another group of NPCs. Maybe its avoidable, but its so much easier in a raven when you only need to align for warp in case of aggro bugs (or aproach the next gate if your tank can hold the entire stage). If you are comfortable with rejecting missions, get a shield tanked AC machariel and just ignore the missions that would get you killed. A gist b-type XL booster and cheap b-type hardeners + DG invuls (depending on mobs) should work good enough against all encounter missions and the easy deadspace missions. I actually know people who use dual gistii SBs on a raven, the damage output of groups is not the problem. Only full stage aggro is what can get you killed. An interesting option is to invest in a partial crystal set (on your carebear clone) and gist tank to be able to tank full stage aggro of all interesting missions up to the extravagancas, and ignore the new missions against empire navies entirely. Basically, if the mission has more then one part, chances are high you will end up killing empire ships, and unless you happen to roleplay, there is no point to ruin your standing for the chance to get your 2b ship killed in a difficult mission. Problem with mimmatar agents is simple: both +5 implants and fleet tempests have dropped to a level where its not really worth it to accept the offers, and there are no other offers aviable. +3 Implants and skill books are dropping in price as well, albeit slowly. A caldari mission runner gets 400-500m out of the 200k LP + 500m (standard cash-out offer), a minmatar runner should be happy to get 100-200.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.02 23:06:00 - [55] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: LUKEC To testy... consider phoon if you don't want expensive shield tank. or just use the damn raven like everyone else :). I was doing them in domi... afk lesson in 99% ... in that 1% i was on good ss sitting in pod:P Testy is selling his caldari alt, so don't .... --------- Dead already?

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