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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:42:00 -
[61]
 Quote:
Are you serious? Are you really going to sue somebody because you dont like a game? You better read the EULA before you start sueing anybody. There are many cool Americans out there, but your type makes americans look stupid.
hehe well said.
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Znaei
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:42:00 -
[62]
Are you serious? Are you really going to sue somebody because you dont like a game? You better read the EULA before you start sueing anybody. There are many cool Americans out there, but your type makes americans look stupid.
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
corporal hicks
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:49:00 -
[63]
Quote:
Edited by: Ross on 24/09/2003 23:42:01
Edited by: Ross on 24/09/2003 23:40:59
Quote:
No they are an ISP, my ISP infact :)
You need to look up consumer law and terms.
bygames isn't an ISP, thats telewests gaming service.
You say it means something other than what it says. It says Gaming Service... You say it means gambling, but can offer no shred of proof except what you say you heard in college lol. I've shown you even big players like telewest call their own game sub-cos a "Gaming Service" lol.
Just a small point I presume Ross you are from the states yes?
If so try see the fact that the nevada gaming comission who control what in nevada????? ohhh gambling thats it stupid me!!!
Gaming in law is genrelly allways a referral to gambling. It has been since laws where written. Gaming as in computer games ect are covered by the same laws that cover videos/dvds ect in most countries of the world. Again I am not a lawyer but I did work as a shop manager for one of the biggest video shop chains in the world which means in my country anyway computer games were covered by the same laws that cover other media types.
" Stay Frosty "
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SkyLeach
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:52:00 -
[64]
Edited by: SkyLeach on 24/09/2003 23:54:41
Now you are proving how much you know.
Blueyonder is an ISP, Phone service, and Cable TV company.
http://www.blueyonder.co.uk
im not so mental i dont know who my ISP is ross.. 
you are probably looking at an old page or document. like.. 2 year old or more by the sound of it.
*edit
Quote:
Just a small point I presume Ross you are from the states yes?
If so try see the fact that the nevada gaming comission who control what in nevada????? ohhh gambling thats it stupid me!!!
Well put Corp! hehe made me smile :)
As for sueing anyone.. me and ross are just having a friendly spar of words and minds, note.. not flaming each other but discussing? amazing huh. As for topic starter.. who knows.
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:53:00 -
[65]
No, I'm actually from the UK thank god.
I'm guessing you missed the part in the statement that said "Computer Software"? So even if you were right, it wouldn't help. Since EVE is DEFINATLY covered under computer software lol
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:56:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Ross on 24/09/2003 23:57:50
Quote:
Now you are proving how much you know.
Blueyonder is an ISP, Phone service, and Cable TV company.
http://www.blueyonder.co.uk
im not so mental i dont know who my ISP is ross..
you are probably looking at an old page or document. like.. 2 year old or more by the sound of it.
dude, blueyonder is from telewest.
oh, by the way, let me paste my /whois info from IRC
Ross is [email protected] * Ross
Ross is connecting from *@82-32-49-49.cable.ubr07.azte.blueyonder.co.uk
oh look, i use blueyonder.
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SkyLeach
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:56:00 -
[67]
Dude.. your from the UK and you dont know who the hell Blueyonder are?
My god!
you must be a BT mug. err i mean customer 
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SkyLeach
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:59:00 -
[68]
Edited by: SkyLeach on 25/09/2003 00:05:23
hmm.. Telewests service group.. IE: internet, cable TV, telephone, is now Blueyonder. Has been for some time too.
Seen any Telewest vans within the past 2 maybe even 3 years? no?
Wonder why?
Seen plenty of Blueyonder vans tho?
Guess whos header is on the top of my phone bill? my cable Tv bill? my internet bill?
clue: it doesent have a "T" in it.
My ISP email address is not [email protected] never has been, its [email protected]
*Edit.. ok your partly right there, seems telewest still use "Telewest" (though nowadays its "telewest Broadband -- even for phone services", AND blueyonder, for all sorts, so we are both right :P
Blueyonder isnt a gaming service... its a service they offer tho.. to their Internet customers. Blueyonder is your ISP, Telewest owns your ISP. Your email would be [email protected] otherwise.
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Anara Valencia
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:02:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Anara Valencia on 25/09/2003 00:03:22
Edited by: Anara Valencia on 25/09/2003 00:03:04
Znaei,
I fail to see how being "A Cool American" has any bearing on this subject.
You say that a lawsuit is stupid, maybe. But the person was only asking about a refund.
The fact that you label someone as "stupid" without reading the entire thread shows your own stupidity.
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:02:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Ross on 25/09/2003 00:04:26
Ah okay, well you obviously know something that blueyonder don't. Because take a look at blueyonders corporate site:
"blueyonder is from Telewest Broadband"
Blueyonder seem to think they are from telewest. Although, I'm sure you know better rofl
Anyway, you keep staying from my main point, which was about the OFT. Even if gaming service doesn't cover it, computer software does.
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SkyLeach
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:08:00 -
[71]
Read my edit ross :P
im going to bed anyways, i have work in the morning. In Huddersfield... AT BLUEYONDER!
Nah only kidding, i do have work tho, which sucks, so im off to bed.
ill try dig out some reference on consumer law regards terms - if - i - really - must, tommorrow and post it.
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Anara Valencia
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:09:00 -
[72]
Good Night, Skyleach.
I say let the issue die.
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:11:00 -
[73]
okay, night dude. good debate
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Raucus
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:18:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Are you serious? Are you really going to sue somebody because you dont like a game? You better read the EULA before you start sueing anybody. There are many cool Americans out there, but your type makes americans look stupid.
No, I think they are going to sue because the goods sold are not fit for the purpose they were sold for....
Also....
The EULA is not visible until you sign up for the game... therefore you are required to open the package to read it.... that would be a very interesting discusion, particularly in the USA, I believe the EU has also made comments on this. Although comments are in no way binding they would be very influencial.
You mock someone because they wish to stand up for their rights....... I say good luck to them....
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Sylvius
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:20:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Sylvius on 25/09/2003 00:21:11
The sale of the box clearly took place inside the US, but neither CCP nor Simon & Shuster was involved in the sale. The EULA can't cover the sale of the box because neither party (or a third party) can alter the deal after the financial transaction was made.
The sale of the online service clearly took place in Iceland. You went to Iceland (online) and agreed, in Iceland, to abide by the EULA. The EULA had to be agreed to before the sale of the online game service, so it clearly does apply.
An online game lives and dies by its EULA. Every aspect of the financial transactions that keep online games running take place under the umbrella of the EULA, so the developers and distributors are not going to get that one wrong. The EULA warned you you might not get service, but you agreed to pay without even checking to see if you would.
The sale of the box is a completely different matter, but the agreement pursuant to the online service takes place entirely within Iceland. There's a parallel argument taking place with peer-to-peer file-sharing in North America. Downloading copyrighted material and allowing copyrighted material to be downloaded are both illegal inside the US. The activities take place inside the US, so US law applies. However, downloading copyrighted material is expressly permitted in Canada, so Canadians can download all they want. Canadian law also places the onus on the active copier, so sharing files is also expressly permitted in Canada. So, while the RIAA can go after American file-sharers, file-sharers in Canada are protected by Canadian law, even if they share files with Americans.
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:23:00 -
[76]
Agree 100% Sylvius
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Anara Valencia
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:28:00 -
[77]
Sylvius,
Your point has some merit. So, the the subscriber of the online account lives outside of Iceland then their laws don't apply.
Hence, the EULA is invalid. I know someone will say this only applies to the "pirated" material you mentioned.
Basically, what your saying is that if you don't live in that country then your not bound by its laws. This is another topic that can be "loosely" interpreted.
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:43:00 -
[78]
Quote:
Sylvius,
Your point has some merit. So, the the subscriber of the online account lives outside of Iceland then their laws don't apply.
Hence, the EULA is invalid. I know someone will say this only applies to the "pirated" material you mentioned.
Basically, what your saying is that if you don't live in that country then your not bound by its laws. This is another topic that can be "loosely" interpreted.
I'm pretty sure the EULA says that all legal court action must take place in Iceland... So Icelandic court, Icelandic law.
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Raucus
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:47:00 -
[79]
 Quote:
Quote:
Sylvius,
Your point has some merit. So, the the subscriber of the online account lives outside of Iceland then their laws don't apply.
Hence, the EULA is invalid. I know someone will say this only applies to the "pirated" material you mentioned.
Basically, what your saying is that if you don't live in that country then your not bound by its laws. This is another topic that can be "loosely" interpreted.
I'm pretty sure the EULA says that all legal court action must take place in Iceland... So Icelandic court, Icelandic law.
American Ditributor..... American Law
British Distributor..... British law....
You can say whatever you want in a EULA (read Microsofts...) doesnt mean it's worth a damn.
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Anara Valencia
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:55:00 -
[80]
Ross,
It doesn't really matter. When we all signed up for our accounts there was no pop-up or splash screen that notified us exactly which country the server was located in and what "laws" would apply.
Websites are mirrored all over the world and without explicitly telling the end-users, it is their right to assume they are protected unless stated otherwise.
However, I say if really want to make a legal case of the whole matter. I would opt for discrimination and favortism lawsuit by CCP.
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:56:00 -
[81]
American Ditributor..... American Law
British Distributor..... British law....
true, but it's not about the distrubutor. lol.
We're talking about the service. For which to take any legal action against, it would need to take place in an Icelandic court (Since you cannot summon them to an American or Bristish court, if YOU want to take legal action against THEM). So you would be bound to Icelandic law as I understand it.
You gotta love legal jargon.
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.25 00:58:00 -
[82]
Point is, the US/UK have no power to demand CCP to appear in one of their courts.. If you wanted to sue them, you'd need to go to Iceland. So it doesn't matter if the servers were in the bloody South Pole, if you are going to an Icelandic court.
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Ezuriah
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Posted - 2003.09.25 01:00:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Ezuriah on 25/09/2003 01:02:36
Edited by: Ezuriah on 25/09/2003 01:02:25
I played Asheron's Call for many years, Crasheron as many of us called it. Every patch day there were always problems that make the problems in this game look like nothing. I, and thousands of others kept on playing it, knowing the issues would be resolved, and eventually they always were. I trust that CCP will do the same. No game is perfect, there will always be problems and the companies that make the games will do what they can to keep their product running as optimal as they can. Some issues take longer than others, depending on the complexity. There can be many variables which can cause a game to not perform the way it is intended. There could be a driver issue, there might be something corrupted in the OS files that wasn't obvious, there could be a problem with your ISP, or with one of the hops your connection routes to CCP, and of course, with any given patch, there will be problems. I know it sounds like the scene in the "Blues Brothers" movie where John Belushi recites all the exscuses to Carrie Fischer in the tunnel why he stood her up at their wedding, but those are the realities we as online gamers face. I realize none of this makes any difference to you, but these are just some of the reasons why a game won't work correctly. So, can I have your stuff?  (j/k)
The Keepers Alliance |
Mustafa Ken'Yova
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Posted - 2003.09.25 01:17:00 -
[84]
Quote:
Hey, if the CEO of TTI can sue CCP to get his way then I can make a complaint to get a refund.
They sell the game in the U.S. so they are bound by its laws as the same for any other country.
So, why not try.
LOL.
I'm sorry but I had to comment on this little gem. I really do not know *where* people come up with half the sh*t that is said on these forums, but please *know* the facts without a doubt before throwing such slander on a publically accessed medium.
That being said:
1.) You are a moron if you believe what you just wrote / replied with on the first page.
2.) "TTI's CEO" did *not* sue or in anyway bring legal action against CCP (laughs hysterically).
3.) You will not be doing anything except giving yourself a headache, CCP is not obliged in anyway to give your money back.
4.) You just started a sh*tstorm / flamewar and I hope you enjoy it.
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Zodiac Laserstorm
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Posted - 2003.09.25 08:01:00 -
[85]
Now, now, be nice, no one is flaming (yet)
I must agree that I also wondered about thus "sueing by TTi" thing... because it keeps on comming, and not only here, but from all over.
Now I'm not into politics, I'm a freelance, I do my own stuff in the newbie corp and I'm happy with that, I think TTi are the belzebub of EVE or some such, but I hardly see anyone taking an online game THAT serious, that they would fly to Island for a court session.
Someone else said my name about something or the other a while ago, but since I don't live on these boards and it's water under the bridge, I'll just let it pass and say "Good on you"
Now, sorry for disrupting the flow, you where saying? 
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agrizla
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Posted - 2003.09.25 09:34:00 -
[86]
1) Ross read this. That should clear up your misunderstanding of "gaming";
2) The service is provided from within the UK and you do not pay CCP one penny for it. You pay a third party (name escapes me right now). Therefore in the UK at least, the section of the EULA that refers to "waiving your rights" (I paraphrase here) and accepting Icelandic jurisdiction is not legally enforceable. You in fact cannot waive your rights to UK law;
3) This is a dumb thread
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Bluebeard
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Posted - 2003.09.25 10:42:00 -
[87]
Quote:
Point is, the US/UK have no power to demand CCP to appear in one of their courts.. If you wanted to sue them, you'd need to go to Iceland. So it doesn't matter if the servers were in the bloody South Pole, if you are going to an Icelandic court.
CCP has assets in the UK (the servers), therefore a UK court has power over those assets.
I'm pretty sure that if they demanded CCP appeared in a UK court, then CCP would oblige.
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Bluebeard
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Posted - 2003.09.25 10:44:00 -
[88]
Quote:
Ross,
I don't think "Gaming Services" refers to online gaming. I am pretty sure they mean "forms of gambling".
But Eve Online is all about gambling - Every time I jump through a gate, I gamble that I won't get stuck on the other side.
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Ross
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:37:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Ross on 25/09/2003 11:38:37
Quote:
1) Ross read this. That should clear up your misunderstanding of "gaming";
Thanks... But in one of my last posts I already said that even if that WAS correct... It is still covered under "Computer Software"...
Look, this is a complicated arguement, that's why CCP probably paid a lot to a firm to write the EULA... I'm not going to turn round and say I'm an expert at law. As far as I'm concerned, the people who wrote that EULA know more about law than I do (and more than most people here, I should think).
No one with half a brain would try and bring legal action against CCP. Anyone that tried would only be wasting large sums of their own money. I can't believe you think you have a case.
If you really want your monthly fee back that badly, then surely you can't afford to bring forward legal action?
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Toulak
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:43:00 -
[90]
This post is completely pointless, CCP have themselves covered with the EULA its a contract between yourselves and CCP. You agree to the contract, you abide by its rules, no law can get around it.
You dont like it, tough luck basically and thats what any law firm you goto will say.
All you can do is quit playing, or send plenty of hate mail to CCP which they'll ignore and could possibly if it gets to an extreme sue you for a harrasment case.
Nuff said.
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