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Ginaz
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Posted - 2006.06.06 00:47:00 -
[1]
Somehow i've got the stupid feeling that the actual range of warp scramblers and disruptors is way too low.
7.5km is nothing.. 20km is shortrange. After that, there's nothing. Especially since introducing tech2 ammo, many people use to have optimals arround 20km and higher. Many many people fit atleast 1-2 stabs nowadays and it's getting really hard to lock down people, even if not beeing solo. Not to forget sniper [bleeps] sitting at 150-220km.
Wouldn't it be nice to have:
+3 scramble, 10-15km range
+2 scramble arround 40km range
+1 scramble arround 80 or 100km range
I'd like that :)
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Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.06.06 01:17:00 -
[2]
I wouldn't, you should have support to tackle as they can get into range quickly, not horribly overpowered scramblers.
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Hey You
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Posted - 2006.06.06 03:08:00 -
[3]
I'd support this, but I'd make it lower then that.
3points @ 10km.
2points @ 22km.
1points @ 40km.
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Aramova
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Posted - 2006.06.06 03:11:00 -
[4]
+1 scramble arround 40km range
how's 45km? :P
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signature nerfed due to 700 bytes :( |
Hey You
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Posted - 2006.06.06 03:12:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Aramova
+1 scramble arround 40km range
how's 45km? :P
Pfft. That's an Arazu.
And it'd also be a subtle boost to the Arazu too. 
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.06.06 03:21:00 -
[6]
If insta's were removed, it would be to low.
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Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.06.06 05:12:00 -
[7]
no.
It would remove the point (for the most part) of having a tackler.
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Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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GrimDoomsday
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Posted - 2006.06.06 07:45:00 -
[8]
3+ 2km scram. yes yes.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.06 07:48:00 -
[9]
Amarr and Minmatar sniping BSes very overpowered. Time to narf them? 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:09:00 -
[10]
People dont like WCS. This change would make WCS a neccessity. You'd have people like me scrambling you for 3-4 points in my Tempest at 80km and pounding you with Quake L :P
Sniping is overpowered as it is, and even though 80km is only 1/3 of max sniping range, its still a hell of a long way for a lot of ships to travel to fight. Espcially whilst you're getting sniper rounds in the face.
Testy's Eve Blog, Updated 01/06/06
Someone sell me an Amarr Alt!
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Ginaz
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:46:00 -
[11]
+1 at 80km is probably too much but somehow scrambler/disruptors are a little bit underpowered nowadays.. atleast it feels like that for me....
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:52:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Stamm on 06/06/2006 18:55:43
Yet another thread saying 'Make it so when I start shooting at something it can't run away'
I think WCS and scramblers/disruptors are fine as they are.
If you want to get 4 points on a ship quickly then fit an interceptor properly and use one, or use a T2 recon ship for it.
Edit : I think it's the 150KM snipers that are broken, not the WCS/scrams.
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Hey You
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Stamm
Edited by: Stamm on 06/06/2006 18:55:43
Yet another thread saying 'Make it so when I start shooting at something it can't run away'
I think WCS and scramblers/disruptors are fine as they are.
If you want to get 4 points on a ship quickly then fit an interceptor properly and use one, or use a T2 recon ship for it.
Edit : I think it's the 150KM snipers that are broken, not the WCS/scrams.
Read the whole thing, through, and think about it, before you post. It'll help, promise.
80k is too much. But 40km, for 1 point, would be fair, IMO.
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hey You
Originally by: Stamm
Edited by: Stamm on 06/06/2006 18:55:43
Yet another thread saying 'Make it so when I start shooting at something it can't run away'
I think WCS and scramblers/disruptors are fine as they are.
If you want to get 4 points on a ship quickly then fit an interceptor properly and use one, or use a T2 recon ship for it.
Edit : I think it's the 150KM snipers that are broken, not the WCS/scrams.
Read the whole thing, through, and think about it, before you post. It'll help, promise.
80k is too much. But 40km, for 1 point, would be fair, IMO.
I did. But just in case... I read it again.
I still agree with what I posted. Nothing should be able to lock a ship down at 40KM unless it's a ship designed for specifically that purpose only (i.e. the recon ship).
I accept that ranges are increasing, but the problem is T2 ammo and missile range bonuses, it's not stabs and scrams.
And I'll repeat, if you want to lock a ship down at 40KM, then an interceptor can do that in less than 10 seconds.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:45:00 -
[15]
There's two suggestions in the OP:
1. Introduction of a stronger set of scramblers
2. Increased range
I don't know whether this means people will fit more WCS. If scrambling becomes powerful enough people will fit less because it'd be less useful. At the same time this will lead to people fitting fewer scramblers, and so on.
Personally, I'd like to see a goodly increase in just range.
Scrambler 12km (named reach further)
Disruptor 30km (named reach further)
It's so little that's needed, really, when it comes to balancing WCS vs scrambler, and it's such a delicate balance that scrambler or stab strength is something best left alone.
New sig coming soonÖ
In the next (content) patch Information Warfare will be nerfed. How sad, it wasn't even useful to begin with. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ginaz
+1 at 80km is probably too much but somehow scrambler/disruptors are a little bit underpowered nowadays.. atleast it feels like that for me....
Right. T2 scramblers/disruptors with 25% more range, still 1 point.
T2 WCS with 5 less CPU usage.
Sorted!
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:58:00 -
[17]
What I want to avoid is static ships that can scramble other ships.
My Armageddon should not be a WTFPWNING tanking nosproof cow of a ship, that can also tackle. As it is just now it does all that, but only if other ships are either too slow to move out of range, or if they choose not to move out of range.
Something else to consider.
The area of a circle is pie x r^2 (I think... been a long time)
The area of a 7.5k scram is 176 m^2.
The area of a 20K disrupt is 1256 m^2
The area of an 80K disrupt is 20096m^2
And space is 3D, so I probably should have used the area of a sphere... but I don't know how to work that out. Anyway, those figures should go someway to explain that 80K isn't just 4 times as good as 20K.
You'd see frigates and cruisers unable to MWD out of a BSs scramble range. You'd see all sorts of things that would mess with game balance.
I agree with a modest (MODEST!) increase in range for the T2 scrams and disrupts, and a modest decrease in the CPU requirements of stabs, but no more.
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Ginaz
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Posted - 2006.06.06 21:16:00 -
[18]
a slight increase in scramble strenght or in scramble range would make pvp fittings with lot of wcs quite.. useless.
Haulers can still fit their wcs and escape........
somehow my opinion is, that WCS are a tool to avoid pvp, to protect haulers, miners and other carebears from being forced into pvp. They lost this limited role... nowadays they are more and more used as the ultimate i-win-for-sure button (exceptions, too, ofc)
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.06.06 21:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ginaz
a slight increase in scramble strenght or in scramble range would make pvp fittings with lot of wcs quite.. useless.
Haulers can still fit their wcs and escape........
somehow my opinion is, that WCS are a tool to avoid pvp, to protect haulers, miners and other carebears from being forced into pvp. They lost this limited role... nowadays they are more and more used as the ultimate i-win-for-sure button (exceptions, too, ofc)
Maybe I see them differently than you do.
I see them as a way of greatly reducing the risk and reward.
Stabbed ship? Significantly less effective, but stands more chance of getting out.
I can't remember a time when I've been thinking 'Oh dear, I've got 60 CPU and 2 lowslots left, and no idea what to do with them!'. Every fit I try I always end up short on lowslots and for PvP CPU.
Are you thinking about Vagabonds? I hear a lot of people complaining lately that a vaga with stabs still moves fast enough that the only things that can track it get instapopped by it.
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Krav
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Posted - 2006.06.06 21:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Stamm
What I want to avoid is static ships that can scramble other ships.
My Armageddon should not be a WTFPWNING tanking nosproof cow of a ship, that can also tackle. As it is just now it does all that, but only if other ships are either too slow to move out of range, or if they choose not to move out of range.
Something else to consider.
The area of a circle is pie x r^2 (I think... been a long time)
The area of a 7.5k scram is 176 m^2.
The area of a 20K disrupt is 1256 m^2
The area of an 80K disrupt is 20096m^2
And space is 3D, so I probably should have used the area of a sphere... but I don't know how to work that out. Anyway, those figures should go someway to explain that 80K isn't just 4 times as good as 20K.
You'd see frigates and cruisers unable to MWD out of a BSs scramble range. You'd see all sorts of things that would mess with game balance.
I agree with a modest (MODEST!) increase in range for the T2 scrams and disrupts, and a modest decrease in the CPU requirements of stabs, but no more.
Agreed. No ship can have that much functionality and stay balanced with what's in place currently. Having range kept low allows for the competeing lifestyles (pvp and carebear) to exist in tandem.
Volume of a sphere is 4/3 * Pi * radius^3
current amount of space covered by a 20 km scramble is approximately 33,510 cubic kilometers and change.
Sounds like a lot of affected space, and it is, but remember that when you are scrambled, all you have to do is head directly away from the scrambling ship and reduce this to a linear progression. Get 20 kms away and you're set. Granted you can't always outrun your opponent.
The other alteration is that guarding an area becomes a lot easier. The affected area grows so much larger that you can sit in several locations around the gate (for instance), and anybody leaving that gate will decloak within range easily. If you sit an inty right on top of the gate, you can cover 100% of the possible decloaking positions as things are today with the 1 strength, 20 km scramblers.
Enhanced range means someone warping in to check things out at the gate will have to be more creative in his warp vector or you'll snag him no issue, no contest.
We are probably agreed that having boring pvp is on nobody's wishlist, and keeping the range limited means that tactics are still important and keeping it interesting. Instaed, as the quoted poster says, planting a 'static' ship somewhere and control+click, f1, f2, f3,f4....
Krav
Krav
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Close encounter of the Hijack kind? Impossible.
Unless it is as bad as I think...
And if they were out to get m-- |
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