Get rid of mineral drops from drones!!!!

Yea... mineral faucet from drones must be removed...

Get rid of mineral drops from drones!!!!

Not that I mind, but what other faucet would you replace it with?

edit: misunderstood. Well i guess it will be good old bounties .

That would be the most obvious one, sure. Though looking at the big picture the last thing that EVE needs is another giant ISK faucet. And, off course, the drone regions would lose their uniqueness.

Somehow I don't think one more region of the same bounties all the other regions have is gonna destabilize things.

At least not near as much as Drone Poop has destabilized Mining.

As for Unique...

Nothing wrong with a simplistic opinion. Adds variety.

Better a simple solution that gets things done then a unique one that has negative effects.

There is a reason were flying around in 747's instead of really cool Zeppelins. There is no Reason a Raven should be able to out mine a Hulk.

Not that I mind, but what other faucet would you replace it with?

That would be the most obvious one, sure. Though looking at the big picture the last thing that EVE needs is another giant ISK faucet. And, off course, the drone regions would lose their uniqueness.

about "Unique"...
You can have unique things in your house when you have all the rest what you need and dont need for living...
and eve only what have in infinite amounts are problems... so solve them and then add unique things (and don't beak it all again).

You can eliminate uniqueness in the name of progress, but in the end you risk being left with a generic landscape without any character, unable to foster attachment or any sense of scale and wonder required for immersion.

CCP can be lazy and replace it with ISK...
one more region with same ISK faucet as all others would not make ISK value less at all...
and when we have incursions on incursions on incursions... that change will have infuence of 0%...
and it would SAVE minerals market...

Or CCP can be smart and make some other value thing in EVE that can be exchanged (like LP or LP or tags) or sold on market (like parts or blueprints for production)...
But no point to do second thing and waste DEV time when other things make 99,9% of the problem...

This way you solve at least one problem, devaluation of minerals and goods...

And for all that ppl that will call me "carebear" for this said... (i dont know why some ppl are calling others like that when they rase this subject... but...)
Who is biggest carebear?
I can not think of bigger carebear that that one that mine in BS...

I have read somewhere DEVs reply about removing mineral drops from drones and putting something else on its place
CCP, can you please give us update on this, please? Is this coming?

That's very nice change and players would be thankful.
Please remove minerals from drones.


*Edit:
@ CCP
In this thread are some nice suggestion how to revive industry... please... give us response...
Are you going to do anything on subject of rebalancing mineral faucets/drains ratio???


In state in what EVE is now there are huge problems on this subject.
The most of all minerals in EVE are coming from drones. And when you add up on that loot drops you are at the point where mining dont play significant role at all.
That is WRONG.
Mining needs to be THE largest SOURCE (If not only) source of minerals in EVE.

Think a little about it...
- Is it normal to go to mine with shotgun to mine???
- Is it normal that shooting down planes give you more materials for making new planes then mining? (WOW we have here Perpetual motion here)
- Is it normal that profession for which you must have PhD is giving you revenue of burger flipper proffesion?
- Is it normal that profession for which you must have PhD give you place in society for whitch ppl are saying "they need to learn their place, its at the bottom.... where they belong."

Well... all that "normal stuff" we have in EVE.

Lets translate that on EVE:

- You load your weapons on your combat ship and kill drones and rats to aquire minerals.
- You aquire more minerals (much more) with shooting drones and rats then with mining.
- Mining skill tree is larger then for some other, much more lucrative professions (now), and you the least revenue.
- Mining skill tree is larger then for some other, much more lucrative professions (now), and ppl are saying to your face "miners need to learn their place, its at the bottom.... where they belong."

You see something wrong here???
Ppl in this thread have solutions for this problem!!!




And about Manufacturing...

Manufacturing of basic T1 items is... well... dead...
And that is the first step for young players that decide to go indy way in EVE, and it is dead.
I think thats just wrong.

I will not here be writing real world comparisons (but I could do it) about it but i'll say it directly.
That industry is based on T1 meta 0 items... isn't it easy ko just remove that items from loot drops???
Easy and efficiently problem solved.


Revive industry in EVE, please.

Thnx you in advance.


*used intelectual property of many ppl in this thread.

BTW is they took out alloys the mineral vacuum that would create would be rediculous...

"get rid of mineral drops from drones" say the hardcore pvpers...

I wanna see the hardcore pvpers paying +50% on each single ship they buy because A - miners are ganked B - no drone minerals C - mining is boring (what most people think any way).

It's all working fine. The drone regions are still the worst place to pve in eve, don't make it a desert where even russian bots won't want to live...

I've pointed this out elsewhere and am half sure that this will be ignored but here goes: The value of isk is not entirely determined by the supply of isk. It is the ratio between isk and capital goods. Minerals are one of the biggest capital goods. Therefore if you reduce the influx of minerals and change nothing else (or through bounties actually increase the influx of isk) you have the same (or greater) volumes of isk competing for less minerals and prices will rise. Manufacturing chains and trading are just mediums to facilitate the isk/ goods ratio.

becuase more ISK is 'printed' PI, Ratting, Mining, PLEX, than the ships and modules and structures are destroyed in game resulting directly in inflation.

I do as much ratting up there as I did in providence and wicked creek and make about the same sort of money doing it. I'd prefer bounties as then I wouldn't have to ship all the crap out......

Not really. The Vacuum would be filled by Mining which would draw a much larger crowd as supplies of Minerals dwindle and costs increase.

Which in turn will make for more ganking opportunities, the killing of more Hulks, making more forum rage, driving up mineral and T2 goo prices even further................ making the CFC and Russians richer......

The more things change..................................

Which in turn will make for more ganking opportunities, the killing of more Hulks, making more forum rage, driving up mineral and T2 goo prices even further................ making the CFC and Russians richer......

The more things change..................................

drone regions need to be changed, how, i am not 100% sure but i do think give the npc bountys and bring the alloys inine with module drops from the other nul sec regions.

....

I dont agree with you... prices would not be that high at all...

but...

So... what are you saying...
keep little man broke so that some big mans don't have more???

I don't understand. Why the drone regions? Mining is broken, not the drone regions. CCP should fix mining and make it worthwhile again.
So many people harvest drone alloys for a reason: because it is more efficient and less tedious than mining. The problem is mining. Drone harvesting is working, mining is not. So why get rid of the working part instead of fixing the broken part?

Can someone explain to me what is wrong with drones? o_o

This is an important part of fixing Mining. Minerals are not ISK but can be exchanged for ISK. When the amount of Minerals being brought in outstrips the amount being destroyed the price goes down and stockpiles rise.

Eliminating a major source of Minerals outside of Mining will thereby increase the value of the Minerals being Mined.

Mining Fixed.

I'm surmising that if there is truth in 74% of minerals is supplied by drones and the slack gets picked up by miners, then the majority of supply is bought into contestable space.

I say "contestable" in that the drone goo comes from solidly occupied space now that would require a major invasion to choke supply.

With a shift to predominately highsec mining (that's an assumption) - a concerted event like Hulkageddon with Goons input could put a serious dent in the supply - at least in low-ends.

Just a thought.

I for one will never, ever set a foot into a mining barge again. I think most of us started of with mining, in a newbie mining corp. And most of us eventually found out, that paying monthly for a game where you spend most of your time semi-afk watching tv while doing the same boring repetitive bull*** over and over again is simply terrible. Most people moved on from mining to other activities and discovered how much fun eve can be. And you really want to force them all back into their barges by eliminating the alternatives to mining?

whats the difference about monetary inflation and devaluation of some goods???
I don't see a difference...
minerals ARE isk for indy ppl!!!

Quoted for truth


I make about the same(if not less) amount of Isk here than i did in catch. the only diff is that i have to move all my mineral out and that costs me more isk that goes to other players

I for one will never, ever set a foot into a mining barge again. I think most of us started of with mining, in a newbie mining corp. And most of us eventually found out, that paying monthly for a game where you spend most of your time semi-afk watching tv while doing the same boring repetitive bull*** over and over again is simply terrible. Most people moved on from mining to other activities and discovered how much fun eve can be. And you really want to force them all back into their barges by eliminating the alternatives to mining?

+1000

This is completely true. If you replaced the minerals from drones with money, you just make minerals more expensive... which if you stop there (like some people have) seems to be good for miners. But if minerals are more expensive so are ships and therefore the extra money you make really isn't extra because the value of the money you make is still the same.

D: There really is no way to make mining more profitable.

Not that I mind, but what other faucet would you replace it with?

Nope, noone expects you to mine a single rock. Keep flying around blowing things up and having fun, as normal. There is an alternative to mining already in place, buy the minerals.

If it is true that 74% of the minerals come frome drones than buying will be very difficult once you eliminate the drone drops altogehter and the eve economy loses 74% of its base with a single blow.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind decreasing drone drops at all, but please, pretty please, only AFTER mining has been fixed and the economy can cope with that. Once ccp changes mining in a way that people want to mine again, it would be a whole different situation and I wouldn't mind myself having spent so many SP in scrapmetal reprocessing.
As things are now, forcing people into mining again by eliminating the alternative ways to aquire the minerals would never bring enough people back to mining to satisfy the market's demand. It would be like asking the players to bot. And I don't like the idea of rogue drones being replaced by human bots.

And... what were prices of minerals before drone regions are introduced???
You see... we would get back at that state...
and then was not this problems you are talking about...

yea... it would be one big BUM in prices for some time until all comes down to its place... but if all would come back around that numbers that was then...

and now i am feeling like ppl that was trying to prevent this economical crisis in world and no one wanted to listen...
this state in which EVE is is like world economical crisis... and its killing eve...

Remove minerals from drone regions.

Add in a new line of items like

Rogue Drone - Weapon system
Rogue Drone - Propultion System
Rogue Drone - Navigation System
Ect
Ect
Ect

Then make is so you can reverse engineer a T2 drone and these rogue drone items and make a Faction style rogue drone.

Not that I mind, but what other faucet would you replace it with?

You know, I think the drones should be left alone. Yeah they don't give isk, they give alloys. So, it doesn't make the alliance isk rich by ratting directly, but it ups their production capabilities. And, if they want good isk, they can just export them to high sec to sell. Putting a bounty on the drones just devalues the isk even more and causes a rise in inflation even more. The thing about the drone regions is that they're not creating too much new isk like, say for example, fountain.

If it is true that 74% of the minerals come frome drones, then buying will be very difficult once you eliminate the drone drops altogehter and the eve economy loses 74% of its base with a single blow.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind decreasing drone drops at all, but please, pretty please, only AFTER mining has been fixed and the economy can cope with that. Once ccp changes mining in a way that people want to mine again, it would be a whole different situation and I wouldn't mind myself having spent so many SP in scrapmetal reprocessing.
As things are now, forcing people into mining again by eliminating the alternative ways to aquire the minerals would never bring enough people back to mining to satisfy the market's demand. It would be like asking the players to bot. And I don't like the idea of rogue drones being replaced by human bots.

-wall of text -

the problem is drones completely devalue the mining industry...

give them a bounty and the occasional augmented Or integrated or harvestor drone and mining laser and ice mining laser upgrades as loot drops.

No bots do it more. Besides, I'd rather have minerals remain as they are than devalue the isk at a faster rate than already.

No bots do it more. Besides, I'd rather have minerals remain as they are than devalue the isk at a faster rate than already.

Hey, I am not your enemy here. I, too, think that mining should be worthwhile and already said that several times. But cutting off 74% of your vital supplies (still don't know if this number is correct) before you have any feasible idea how to compensate for that is just utter madness.

Better a simple solution that gets things done then a unique one that has negative effects.

There is a reason were flying around in 747's instead of really cool Zeppelins. There is no Reason a Raven should be able to out mine a Hulk.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I could of swore it took more skill points to kill rats/drones than sit around and watch your strip miners extract minerals.

I don't use a Raven, but I do solo drone patrols in a battleship for a decent bit of cash, and it took me a lot longer to get to that point than it would to train for a Hulk.

No, it didn't. Even remapped INT/MEM you can get a BS up and running faster than a hulk. Unless of course, you think you need large[insert specialisation of weapon V here] with all the bells and whistles. Why is it, do you suppose, that people go that route in the first place? Hmmm? It isn't just because they hate mining, although that's part of the reason.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I could of swore it took more skill points to kill rats/drones than sit around and watch your strip miners extract minerals.

I don't use a Raven, but I do solo drone patrols in a battleship for a decent bit of cash, and it took me a lot longer to get to that point than it would to train for a Hulk.

If i recall correctly drones also dropped drone parts used in manufacturing right?
How about you drop the minerals and put it into full drone drops, add bp's or copies for rogue drones re-engeneered for capsuleer use with specific properties not found in regular or faction drones.
Sure at first the prices would be quite high but seeing high/low and nullsec has drone plexes there wouldn't be a huge advantage for only the drone regions.

It would give a new manufacturing "mini game" much like invention for t2 did. Hell, make it like invention requiring more work than just plain manufacturing.

it might be extraction from salvaging, not drops, haven't been shooting drones in a long long time.
Crap, ment edit, sorry.

the drone parts come from the "commander" spawns and tbh you cant GIVE them away as they are worth fudge all due to the stuff they make sucking so bad and costing so damn much

Well it could then be a good incentive to make it less suck, distribute drone parts more to make it cost less and uhmmm....uhmmm. EPA?No... Damn, can't remember the 3rd thing, sorry.....oops.

the prob is that the "faction" drones are not as good as compared to there t2 counterparts for the bang for your Isk ratio style analogy hell even the empire faction drones are worse than there t2 counterparts for isk spent, this is something that needs to be looked over asap imho

whats the difference about monetary inflation and devaluation of some goods???
I don't see a difference...
minerals ARE isk for indy ppl!!!

If i recall correctly drones also dropped drone parts used in manufacturing right?
How about you drop the minerals and put it into full drone drops, add bp's or copies for rogue drones re-engeneered for capsuleer use with specific properties not found in regular or faction drones.
Sure at first the prices would be quite high but seeing high/low and nullsec has drone plexes there wouldn't be a huge advantage for only the drone regions.

It would give a new manufacturing "mini game" much like invention for t2 did. Hell, make it like invention requiring more work than just plain manufacturing.

This is a horrible idea, I'm sorry......

The way PvE makes money in drone region is this ....

1. Rat and loot Drone Battleships...
2. Decide whether you want to just sell alloys or refine and manufacture something to sell
The good thing about this choice is that your options are plentiful... either someone will buy your alloys for the minerals for themself to build something , OR you build something that others will want to buy ...

With your idea the options are reduced to almost nothing ... Either i sell the drone parts or I build the special drones and sell them... The problem is that both options are very limited in customer base...

Other space PvE --- You go kill battleships and use ISK to buy whatever you want ... and you dont have to loot and haul anything to make it...

The only ones affected by alloys are miners and last I looked Trit and other low ends are higher then they have been in a long time so there is still money to be made in mining ..... high ends prices have nothing to do with alloys...

I also wanted to add for all those who say " get rid of alloys"

There are not enough miners in EVE to mine enough to compensate for the decrease in minerals on the market this would cause .. not to mention the prices of minerals would go up by alot and that means alot of other prices would go up... So again this only helps miners .. and im sorry I dont see how this is a good thing ... With alloys in the game it helps keep costs down..

I also wanted to add for all those who say " get rid of alloys"

There are not enough miners in EVE to mine enough to compensate for the decrease in minerals on the market this would cause

not to mention the prices of minerals would go up by alot and that means

Not that I mind, but what other faucet would you replace it with?

I don't understand. Why the drone regions? Mining is broken, not the drone regions. CCP should fix mining and make it worthwhile again.
So many people harvest drone alloys for a reason: because it is more efficient and less tedious than mining. The problem is mining. Drone harvesting is working, mining is not. So why get rid of the working part instead of fixing the broken part?

Boring or nigh, Mining used to be much, much more profitable before the drone regions were introduced into Eve.

Look at SISI...
they changed a little reprocessing value of alloys...
little less hi-ends... and much more low ends...
so... they decided to kill hi-sec mining completely and this will not help low/0.0...
and what i know about CCP... one time they do a little tweak that is fixed... and they will get back to it soonTM (never)
and they can say we helped... you helped a squat...


@ CCP
you want to remove mining from EVE???

I ask because i see that you are nerfing it for years and just giving other professions more and more minerals and making them easier to get to it...
About drone loot... are you laughing in miners face when doing all this to us... and this "changes" are kick under the belt... like "we did something"...
And then this metal scraps buff... that's so low... more and more minerals from not-mining...

If you want to kill mining and remove it from game... just say it...
But in this conditions i demand my SP invested in mining back...

All you people complaining about how drone regions are so great and are destroying the mineral market...

BTW Drone regions have been broken for years. The alliances who have found success in these regions considering, deserve a tip of the hat for being successful there.

Drone poop is ALL that drone regions has. Nothing else. There are no bounties, no sec status changes for ratting. Exploration is broken to hell (you can even find the odd mag site, which gives you nothing of value btw, and, unlike all other mag sites, it requires a CODEBREAKER to complete!!!). We also get no shiny faction or deadspace modules, and have to settle for mediocre t2 loot drops. You'll never see any officer loot from drone regions either. Doesn't exist.

I do wonder what would happen if they stopped being the dominant supplier of mins. Yes, the mins market would definitely go up, but my guess is, the prices of everything else would too. For people who like to pvp, it's nice to be able to buy ships cheaply, I wouldn't want this to get worse.

Severian - you are correct, we are not irreplaceable. But neither are miners. If CCP wants to put minerals in the game it will find a way. But what you and many others are asking is for CCP to make your game play style more profitable at the expense of someone else. Quit being a hater and figure out how to play the game to your advantage.

The problem isn't the number of miners. It is the volume of minerals required to supply the market. There is simply not enough available ore to be mined in the existing belts. Worse yet, there isn't enough ore for hisec miners where competition in the belts is much higher than in null sec. For example:

1 million m3 of Veldpsar = 10 million units = 30 million trit at perfect refine. Assuming you mine in a hulk with T2 crystals, a 5% implant and 2 minute cycles from a rorqual, each hulk brings in 56,040 units per cycle or 1,681,200 units per hour. That does not include any time for changing targets, hauling, or moving to a new belt. If you have 2 miners plus the rorqual pilot, it will take you 3 hours.

30 million trit = 7,324 units of plush compound. This can be done by a two man gang in 1 carrier and 1 noctis in the same 3 hours.

So both can do about the same amount of trit over 3 hours. But the real question is: where will the miner find 10 million units of Veldspar? Not in any single system in the game today and certainly not on a repeatable basis. What I failed to mention in the above example is that the ratting pilot will also take in other minerals, such as 7.5 million units of Pyerite, 1.7 million units of mexallon and on down the line. The point is that CCP would need to do far more than just remove alloys. They would need to increase the size of the existing belts in terms of ore amounts and probably increase the refining yields to make up for the loss of alloys.

Maybe we should let alloys stay but CCP can tax the ratters and give it to the miners. The we can create a welfare system in Eve. Or how about this: Get rid of all alloys and let mining be the only place you get get minerals. But in return, CCP removes all ore from hisec. Mining will only exist in lowsec and null sec space. If it is that profitable then it shouldn't be in hisec anyway. Deal?

My Christmas wish - CCP gives the drone regions bounties so I can be like everyone else and not have to work for my isk. Second, CCP gives me free kills because PL gets more than I do. Its only fair.

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---

As promised, here is a brief summary of the "Drone regions improvement suggestions" thread in the Russian General Discussion forum section.

Background

Perceived disparity of income in drone regions compared to the GÇ£bountyGÇ¥ null-sec:

• Income in the drone regions is lower than in other null-sec (especially after the Drone Horde fixes and buffs of other anomalies)
• GÇ£GunminingGÇ¥ makes looting mandatory => need to operate extra accounts
• Lack of exploration sites (ladar/magnetometric/etc.)

Solutions


• Replace alloys with bounties comparable to other null-sec regions; at the same time, introduce other means for mineral compression [so that the existing player-built infrastructure is not wasted]
• Replace alloys with tags / other sellable items (similar to overseer effects) / BPCs for drone ships and equipment [introduction of CONCORD-purchasable drone drops can be role-played accordingly]
• Reduce the ratio of high-end minerals in the drone alloys [so that there is less dependency on drone regions for all minerals]
• Introduce faction / officer drone modules [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
• Introduce [mineral] convoys in drone regions [to counterbalance the lack of mineral supply if the alloys are changed to bounties]
• Introduce drone exploration sites (ladar/magnetometric/etc.) [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
• Increase the volume of alloys to be consistent with regular mining [so that mining does not become obsolete]
• Add non-drone anomalies to drone regions (similar to drone anomalies in the rest of null-sec) [so that there is more diversity and/or income streams]
• Shuffle the drone regions around the map instead of clustering them all together [so that one group does not control the majority of the mineral supply]
• Replace alloys with T2 salvage or augmented drone components [so that the players can still contribute to the economy and get reasonable income]
• Make the GÇ£fast-trackGÇ¥ Drone Horde completion legal, essentially keeping the current status quo (while moving the escalation triggers to 10/10 complexes onto other anomalies) [so that the players are not penalized with reduced income]
• Boost other high-end drone anomalies (Drone Patrols) [so that the players are not penalized with reduced income]
• Add more drone/fighter/FB modifications to the game that would utilize drone components and create unique incentives in the drone regions [so that drone regions still produce something of considerable demand]
• Differentiate drone loot depending on the means used to destroy the rogue drone (killing w/ blasters or thermal missiles yield alloys, killing w/ projectiles or explosive/kinetic weapons yield modules, lasers or EM missiles yield drone components)

Potential Issues

If the alloys will be replaced with bounties, will the following game elements be featured?

• Drone NPC regions
• Faction items
• Officers

WonGÇÖt the removal of alloys create a massive mineral deficit in the game; in the same vein, addition of drone bounties may lead to a massive inflation spike? In addition, PVE in drone regions is considered to be less prone to botting compared to other null-sec regions

General Ideas and Feedback

• Introduce more randomness to anomalies (% chance for extra spawns, other faction encounters within a given anomaly, etc. )
• Botting is obviously perceived as a serious issue with null-sec in general
• More ISK sinks are needed GÇô e.g. introduce supercapital maintenance costs, etc.
• Make regions more diverse (unique loot, etc.) without creating a dependency of the whole game on any one region

Didn't see anyone posting this yet so here goes:

Didn't see anyone posting this yet so here goes:

Didn't see anyone posting this yet so here goes:

when did CCP Spitfire wrote that???

Well it could then be a good incentive to make it less suck, distribute drone parts more to make it cost less and uhmmm....uhmmm. EPA?No... Damn, can't remember the 3rd thing, sorry.....oops.

I say it again - if you make mining the sole source of minerals in the game, then remove all ores from hisec. Too profitable for hisec.

And you again don't see a problem?
1 capital combat-support ship and 1 salvager mine more then 1 capital mining-support ship and 2 T2 mining ships...

And we are talking about mining here

Surely to do this would require the wholesale removal of the ability to reprocess modules / ships / whatever into minerals as well ? I know that relatively speaking the amount of minerals that can be produced from chaining L4 missions isn't as great as that of the Drone Alloys or mining directly, but it does add up in the end....

CCP already nerfed the ability for mission runners to greatly impact the mineral market the way they used to by reducing the Meta 0 drops. They did it, in their words, in an effort to make drone alloys and mining the primary source of minerals. But in the upcoming expansion I believe they are increasing the yield from metal scraps to 500 units of trit. So in a way they are reversing themselves by a marginal amount. Perhaps they think the price of trit is TOO high today and are adding some supply back in. IDK why else they would do that.

But no, if you made mining the sole source of minerals, it would just be from the initial extraction standpoint. You could still reprocess items built in the game. Look, I don't actually advocate making mining the single source. That would be foolish. But if you did, I do advocate taking miniing out of hisec completely. It would be far too profitable to allow hisec carebears access to it. Mining in hisec is just fine today. Mining for high ends is what is really broken (Zyd < 800?). And that has nothing to do with alloys.

Maybe we should let alloys stay but CCP can tax the ratters and give it to the miners. The we can create a welfare system in Eve. Or how about this: Get rid of all alloys and let mining be the only place you get get minerals. But in return, CCP removes all ore from hisec. Mining will only exist in lowsec and null sec space. If it is that profitable then it shouldn't be in hisec anyway. Deal?

Didn't see anyone posting this yet so here goes:

And you again don't see a problem?
1 capital combat-support ship and 1 salvager mine more then 1 capital mining-support ship and 2 T2 mining ships...

And we are talking about mining here





Crucis -

No, we are not talking about mining here. Miners are bitching they don't get paid enough, but what we are really talking about here is how to best supply the Eve mineral market with adequate supplies of minerals. Without a complete and radical change to the method and amounts that miners can achieve, you cannot simply toss out alloys.

The short-term thought process of "just get rid of alloys so miners can earn more isk" is exactly what causes long term negative effects for the entire game. It is changes like these that CCP has made far too often. Rebalancing one area to help another that ends up unbalancing other areas of the game in the process. The point is to think things out before making wholesale changes in the game that have been in place for more than 4 years.

I say it again - if you make mining the sole source of minerals in the game, then remove all ores from hisec. Too profitable for hisec.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! I was going to retort this post and point out how stupid your wall of excuses really is but this would be hilarious! Then maybe you people would upgrade your systems and mine your own minerals. I say you people because noone else would come out there to mine them for you. Wouldn't that pretty much force people to "babysit" miners? LOL You're right, CCP should stop fixing those other mechanics in the game because they've been there for years.

HAHAHAHAHA This +100 ...........welfare for miners... and when they cant afford new mining crystals then they gotta go crystal stamps......

You must be referring to mining in hisec. But even there, the price of the low end minerals is up from a year ago. For example, trit is up 50% from this time a year ago to around its highest level in a long time.

You just can't cry about the profits from mining in hisec. No risk, no reward. And don't tell me about Hulkageddon and the Goons and can flippers being a risk. If you're in hisec and want to mine and make money, then get some friends, make a corp and come to 0.0 and put up an ihub so you can mine Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite. But quit blaming alloys for your woes. Hisec was never meant to be very profitable for miners. Its why they put the crap ores there.

If you are already in 0.0 and not making enough isk from mining, you still can't blame alloys because they have almost nothing to do with high end minerals. Those are too low because there are too many miners in 0.0 mining Arkonor, Bistot and Crokite relative to the demand for Megacyte and Zydrine in the market.

Blaming alloys alone for the woes of hisec miners is like blaming all of 0.0 because hisec planetary interaction isn't as profitable as it is in 0.0. It was never meant to be. When CCP talks about how to fix the drone regions, they don't mean so hisec miners can get paid more. They mean how do they improve the drone regions and how do they keep the Russians from owning it all. Their intentions are clear and it has nothing to do with your profits while sitting 2 jumps from a trade hub crying over your empty belt of veldspar/pyrox/scordite/omber, etc.

Anyway, good luck. I have to go take care of some Prime Arkonor that isn't going to mine itself. And then I have to go mine some drones.

And who are you to take ISK from other group of players???

Mining was here from begining of EVE and ppl trained skills for looong time to mine and manufacture...
and they you got minerals under your guns and without any specialized training got more minerals then mining...
If you want it... then i want that CCP introduce additional training of same length per mining amount per hour per character as miners have for ppl that want to gun mine to get that minerals!!!
Then we can talk who can earn how much from minerals... only then!!!

If we with mining skills can only mine...
then you with killing skills can only kill...

or give mining lasers dmg that would be better then the best combat ship...
if your combat ship can mine better then the best mining ship... that we should kill better then the best combat ship...

First, how do you know i am dude?