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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:19:00 -
[1]
Everyone coming to the defense of Techell in the Miner II situation; claiming that it's "no big deal" and that they should be allowed to take full advantage of the situation, take a quick read of this quote from the CSM chat log:
 Quote:
Dominik> what are the current discussed thoughts on how new ships/tech will be introduced, in light of the recent uproar over the miner II's?
Dominik> err discussed meaning among ccp staff, not players :)
Latta> 10 minutes overdue TomB
Fuhry> my personal favourite of "Introducing New Stuff" would be to have auction
That has been my point all along - it's not about the CURRENT situation - but about the FUTURE of EVE.
When these new technologies get released into EVE, who do you think is going to have the ISK reserves to put in the highest bid?
I'll give you a wild guess, but it starts with "Tec" and ends with "hell I guess we're screwed again."
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:21:00 -
[2]
You have the sound of a wounded dog that just keeps yapping and yapping. No one said Eve would be 'fair'.
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Znaei
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:22:00 -
[3]
Yup, the auction is a terrible idea!
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:31:00 -
[4]
Quote:
You have the sound of a wounded dog that just keeps yapping and yapping. No one said Eve would be 'fair'.
This is all well and good, except in order to survive an online game needs to maintain a playerbase.
This situation threatens to destroy the economy of EVE - this is the single most attractive component for most new players of EVE. In turn, it threatens to destroy EVE's ability to keep old players and attract new ones.
If you were interested at all in EVE's long-term health you would be more concerned with this growing problem.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:33:00 -
[5]
"action" ?
Thats stupid
*
-"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
Lucas De'Thal
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:46:00 -
[6]
have to agree, auction is the stupidest idea. Techell could just buy every damn new item that came out and perpetually monopolize everything.
sorry but that's not the way the game needs to go.
______________________________________________
Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter
dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S "
dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:48:00 -
[7]
Well, to be fair, it doesn't matter HOW future tech 2 BPs are introduced; they'll be auctioned anyway. Techell didn't get a Miner 2 BP from CCP, they BOUGHT theirs because they were a very rich corp and could afford 1.5 billion. When future BPs are introduced, a significant number of them will be BOUGHT by the ultra-rich, because many people would rather have a billion ISK than a BP. A freelancer or small corp could strike it rich in one day by selling such a BP and not need the resources to actually produce the item.
Does anyone REALLY think that is someone else had the Miner 2 BPs they'd charge less? People are paying 5+ million for them because they WANT them that badly. Only an idiot would sell something for 1 million ISK when there were so many people willing to pay 2.5 that there was a multi-week waiting list even with 2 BPs in 23/7 production! Even the current Techell price is lower than what most people charge on the market...
Bottom line: If someone with billions of ISK wants something, they'll usually get it. But I doubt one corp will get ALL the Tech 2 BPs, because even Techell can't buy EVERYTHING. Besides, it's not like there's only going to be ONE of each BP... there are at least half a dozen Miner 2 BPs, but only 2 or 3 are being used to build for the public. As long as there are at least a dozen or more of each BP there shouldn't be any more monopolies like the Miner 2. At least not until the NEXT dev gets careless with a Jovian item... 
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:50:00 -
[8]
Quote:
When future BPs are introduced, a significant number of them will be BOUGHT by the ultra-rich, because many people would rather have a billion ISK than a BP. A freelancer or small corp could strike it rich in one day by selling such a BP and not need the resources to actually produce the item.
I think you are wrong. Now that people have seen the absolute power a unique BP can bring them, nobody is going to jump on the chance to sell a BP they get.
I mean, the Miner II BP went for what, 1B? Techell makes that every week now at least.
Nobody is going to make this mistake again.
Except CCP apparently.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
nono
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Posted - 2003.09.25 04:55:00 -
[9]
Go take a long hard look at all of your past posts. Seeing as you cover all bases on EVERYTHING I guess your statement of "saying all along" has some merit.
I could post "STFU" or "why don't you just quit" or call you an idiot and tell the mods to delete this post etc. etc. but you can read your own.
Yea it sucks. Welcome to EVE. Stay and play or leave. Right?
Have a nice night.
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 05:05:00 -
[10]
Well, nono, admittedly I was less concerned with the situation when they were charging 2.5M isk for the Miner IIs. But now that they are charging 3.5M+ in minerals, which they can they use to produce ships which they also sell for a profit... their wallet is fattening faster than EVE's economy can handle. Anything introduced in the future that requires a large inevstment will put Techell first in line. Is this really a cycle you wish to condone just because it's "how EVE is?"
Guess what - EVE can change, it's not set in stone. In fact the last week should show you that it's a very rough draft right now. We need to recognize the problems which are taking ROOT now but will grow in the future to ruin what would otherwise be the best MMORPG on the market.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Aissa
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Posted - 2003.09.25 05:30:00 -
[11]
But wait, isn't it fair for an individual, with exclusive knowledge take advantage of the existing market and screw over a large portion of the playerbase...because of the way the market is seeded?
To wit, you presuppose that there would only be 1 such BP auctioned. Did it ever occur to you that there may be multiple ones, and that in the auction process there could be anti-monopoly restrictions?
~Aissa
Nomad, Dictionary and Encyclopedia of The Regulators |
The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.09.25 05:59:00 -
[12]
We don't need auctions to introduce Tech II. All we need to do is have events in parts of hoarded space so as to have minimum participation by a few greedy players. Its workded well so far, why not keep doing that. Seriously though, how many non-Stain alliance Eve citizens took part in the "event" where the miner II bpc was dropped? I am yet to hear of one. I do remeber posts by SA that said non-SA members will be shot as they could "steal" a bp.
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Rising Sin
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Posted - 2003.09.25 06:15:00 -
[13]
The last event was fine for miner 2's, but an auction is a horrible idea. There's like 3000 better ideas in a thread about it in the "EVE Idea Lab" forum. Maybe devs should take a look at that.
--
"If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right." |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.25 06:32:00 -
[14]
An auction would just result in the biggest corporations getting ALL the stuff.
Events, at least, give Joe Nobody an equal chance of snatching the prize.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.09.25 06:37:00 -
[15]
I agree, but the events have to be done better. There needs to be an opportunit for the small guy to get rich. Thats how it can happen in RL.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.25 06:38:00 -
[16]
The only problem is, Reclaimer, that the more publicised an Event is, the greater the chance of the hosting system to go down.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Rising Sin
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Posted - 2003.09.25 06:40:00 -
[17]
And the greater chance it turns into a huge slag fest 
Introducing new techs and quests might be a good idea though.
--
"If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right." |
Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.09.25 06:58:00 -
[18]
I personally think agents and research should be a big part of getting tech 2. That way even a little corp can have a shot. Some will turn around and sell the BP to a megacorp, some will keep it and make the item themselves, but either way they get something out of it. Ideally there will be BPs available to buy, others from agents, still others from loot, more from research, and yet more from events. It'll be a lot more interesting if they don't use the same method every time...
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Kaleb
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Posted - 2003.09.25 07:14:00 -
[19]
The BPs shoudl be put on the market just as Tech 1 BPs are. Any other way makes items unattainable to most people and will create the problems Veruna mentions above.
This is so obvious it makes me wonder what sort of brains CCP have.
Oh well...
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Hot Mustard
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Posted - 2003.09.25 07:21:00 -
[20]
Ver - I agree with something you say. I bury the hatchet.
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The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.09.25 07:23:00 -
[21]
Quote:
The BPs shoudl be put on the market just as Tech 1 BPs are. Any other way makes items unattainable to most people and will create the problems Veruna mentions above.
This is so obvious it makes me wonder what sort of brains CCP have.
Oh well...
Apparently youhavent ever bothered to try and make a living being a manufacturer in Eve.
I do agree about the events and publications. I don't have any answers, but I think it should be in areas accessable to all. Curse sounds good to me.
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2003.09.25 07:49:00 -
[22]
I'd have to agee with Kaleb, even if they are extreamley expensive at least smaller corps would have something to work towards if they so chose.
Make a difference
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Georg Inekn
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Posted - 2003.09.25 08:16:00 -
[23]
The destruction of huge numbers of a competitor's ships tend to knock a few zeros off of their bottom line.
Don't like Techell's minerII policy? Declare war.
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nono
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:26:00 -
[24]
Edited by: nono on 25/09/2003 13:41:40
Edited by: nono on 25/09/2003 13:39:45
Quote:
Quote:
Well, nono, admittedly I was less concerned with the situation when they were charging 2.5M isk for the Miner IIs. But now that they are charging 3.5M+ in minerals, which they can they use to produce ships which they also sell for a profit... their wallet is fattening faster than EVE's economy can handle. Anything introduced in the future that requires a large inevstment will put Techell first in line. Is this really a cycle you wish to condone just because it's "how EVE is?"
Nowhere do I say I condone this practice, in fact I don't think it's very bright. My input here was to have you go look at your past posts and realize something about yourself.
For you it's an issue 'now' that that miner II's are 3.5 million but it wasn't when they were 2.5 million? You were less concerned? Forgive me if I laugh.
You regularly **** all over anyone that points out what they feel is a problem. Yet somehow when you post everyone should sit up straight and notice your superior take on the situation?
Quote:
Guess what - EVE can change, it's not set in stone. In fact the last week should show you that it's a very rough draft right now. We need to recognize the problems which are taking ROOT now but will grow in the future to ruin what would otherwise be the best MMORPG on the market.
I need you to tell me this, like your some kind of authority on everything in the game? You sure think you are.
Your coming up on being a month in the game. YOU need recognize Eve has been a rough draft for over four months and there are many problems that HAVE taken root.
You flame all over people and then come back and say "Woh we have a problem here. Have a look at this people, we need to do something about this." Did something affect you directly so it's now an important issue no longer worthy of your flames?
Go have a long hard look at your past posts as I said. Resist your need to post in every possible thread as if you alone are the last word on everything. Your not.
dam quotes =[
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Replicant Amara
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:33:00 -
[25]
I think the new way to introduce new technology is to make it drop by 15 NPC pirates of 1000 k, so is random and no-one has a control of who gets it first... So if a noob happens to get it in his hands... he can sell it or be smart and make lots of money from it and new small corporations can grow... So big corps and small corps will have the same probabilities to get it...
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Erty
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:49:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Erty on 25/09/2003 13:53:35
Quote:
The BPs shoudl be put on the market just as Tech 1 BPs are. Any other way makes items unattainable to most people and will create the problems Veruna mentions above.
This is so obvious it makes me wonder what sort of brains CCP have.
Oh well...
Deflation. Do you know what that is?
The market is screwed right now, and the only way to fix it is to limit the amount of produced items, so there will be a demand for stuff.
That's exactly what CCP are doing, they are exaggerating though...
Maybe 20-30 Miner II bp's would be a nice number.
I can't understand the problem. Someone is richer than you? So what? Bill Gates is richer than you IRL because he came up with a good idea.
In EVE Techell is rich because it BOUGHT a Miner II bp. No favourism, they simply bought it.
Completely fair, what's the problem?
This is my signature. |
Askari
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:53:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Askari on 25/09/2003 13:56:29
Quote:
Everyone coming to the defense of Techell in the Miner II situation; claiming that it's "no big deal" and that they should be allowed to take full advantage of the situation, take a quick read of this quote from the CSM chat log:
Quote:
Dominik> what are the current discussed thoughts on how new ships/tech will be introduced, in light of the recent uproar over the miner II's?
Dominik> err discussed meaning among ccp staff, not players :)
Latta> 10 minutes overdue TomB
Fuhry> my personal favourite of "Introducing New Stuff" would be to have auction
That has been my point all along - it's not about the CURRENT situation - but about the FUTURE of EVE.
When these new technologies get released into EVE, who do you think is going to have the ISK reserves to put in the highest bid?
I'll give you a wild guess, but it starts with "Tec" and ends with "hell I guess we're screwed again."
This has been taken out of context to make it sound a lot worse than it is.
They said that player events, agents, NPC drops AND possibly auctions would play a role in the distribution on tech 2 items.
The auction part being a dev saying he would like to do one that way to see what would happen.
Edit: the _full_ statement...............
Dominik> what are the current discussed thoughts on how new ships/tech will be introduced, in light of the recent uproar over the miner II's?
Dominik> err discussed meaning among ccp staff, not players :)
Latta> 10 minutes overdue TomB
Fuhry> my personal favourite of "Introducing New Stuff" would be to have auction
Fuhry> like for the anchoring skill, just let people put bids on the first batch
Dominik> my personal fav would be agent reward :) but that's so that it allows the opportunity for a "lucky" solo-player to make a big break, rather than give 100% control to megacorps all at once
Fuhry> I would like to see this happen sometime, just to see what happens ;)
TomB> There havn't been any discussed new thought on introducing new techs or ships for quite some time, focus on finishing the manufacturing tool for this.
Civil Deity> great meeting guys, thanks for your comments tomb, pann and fuhry... must go dinner cold.. see ya next week... good questions from my fellow gamers :) have a great week
TomB> But currently there are these: agent missions, rare spawn NPC drops, research, events ... and auctioning has always been hot way :)
----------------
~= Askari =~
Urza's Factory
http://www.mikeward.uk.com/urzas
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:12:00 -
[28]
Quote:
This has been taken out of context to make it sound a lot worse than it is.
Well, not on purpose! 
I do see how this more complete quote takes a little heat off the situation - but still the idea of auctioning new technology to the highest bidder is a frightening one to me considering EVE's current economic state.
Quote:
My input here was to have you go look at your past posts and realize something about yourself.
What is it that I need to "realize about myself"? That my views can change about a particular subject given reflection and additional mitigating circumstances (Mega for Miners)? Well, nono, I'm sorry if that's not really surprising to me. People change their opinions all the time - I've just never seen anyone get so upset about it.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
nono
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:34:00 -
[29]
Quote:
What is it that I need to "realize about myself"? That my views can change about a particular subject given reflection and additional mitigating circumstances (Mega for Miners)? Well, nono, I'm sorry if that's not really surprising to me. People change their opinions all the time - I've just never seen anyone get so upset about it.
Its called covering all bases. Yapping in circles. Dismissing others opinions until you yourself have that opinion. Endlessly flapping just to flap. Having to say something just to say something no matter if you know what your talking about or not and then adding "thats what I was saying" just to round it off.
Your views don't change. You have them all. Whatever view is convenient for you at the time. You have the ability I'm sure to talk to yourself perpetually and always come out on top. In other words you never shut-up.
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Thrawll
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:42:00 -
[30]
The poor are gettin' poorer, the rich are gettin' richer. Don't matter if they do it the way they do it now (which sucks) or do it through an auction (which also sucks).
This game takes Capitalism to a whole new extremity.
Fresh off the bio-mass cue |
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