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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.08 09:52:00 -
[31]
Not only that, Letifer Deus is actually substracting those 30 mils *right above* that comment.
To make it a little clearer:
40 (basic payout) - 0 (basic insurance cost) = 40 (payout after insurance costs)
100 (platinum payout) - 30 (platinum insurance cost) = 70 (payout after insurance costs)
Although I wouldn't exactly call them "30 mils free" but "30 mils less lost", it's not like you make profit when getting your ship blown up.
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R Dan
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Posted - 2006.06.08 09:53:00 -
[32]
OK if your not going to lose your ship then yes. dont insure it.
if there is a chance then do! and for the platinum heres why:
Buy a ship for 100 mill
No insurance.
get 40 mill back.
loss is 60 million (-100 + 40 = -60)
Buy a ship for 100 mill
pay 30 mill to insure it
get 100 mill back
loss is 30 mill (-100 + -30 + 100 = -30)
so think of it as an investment.
I will save you, but make sure you bring beer - Wrangler
and cAKe - Imaran
I thought it was bREe, omgi'mgivingawaymodroomsecwetsftl - Cortes
when come back ... bring PIE. Me like PIE. -Capsicum |
Knoppaz
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:05:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Redsteel
you really don't get it, do you?
ok then..
40m payment for uninsured ship
100m for platinum insurance.
now substract "expenses" and see what's left.. if you still insist you'll just make a fool of yourself.
Besides that I may already look like a fool I'm not talking about uninsured/plat insured, but basic insured/plat insured 
insurance over non-insurance pays out, that's obvious, but is a plat insurance really worth it?
Nope, cause the amount you pay is same for both in the end (basic and plat insurance). Plat insurance is just more convenient, but you risk to loose some money if your ship doesn't get blown up. That's why some people nuke it themself.
Now give me a nerdcap already.. 
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Knoppaz
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Aramendel
Not only that, Letifer Deus is actually substracting those 30 mils *right above* that comment.
To make it a little clearer:
40 (basic payout) - 0 (basic insurance cost) = 40 (payout after insurance costs)
100 (platinum payout) - 30 (platinum insurance cost) = 70 (payout after insurance costs)
Although I wouldn't exactly call them "30 mils free" but "30 mils less lost", it's not like you make profit when getting your ship blown up.
Where do you get those 0 from. Basic insurance for my Proph cost 1.275.000 and not 0. I guess for a BS it costs quite a bit more..
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:11:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Knoppaz
Originally by: Aramendel
Not only that, Letifer Deus is actually substracting those 30 mils *right above* that comment.
To make it a little clearer:
40 (basic payout) - 0 (basic insurance cost) = 40 (payout after insurance costs)
100 (platinum payout) - 30 (platinum insurance cost) = 70 (payout after insurance costs)
Although I wouldn't exactly call them "30 mils free" but "30 mils less lost", it's not like you make profit when getting your ship blown up.
Where do you get those 0 from. Basic insurance for my Proph cost 1.275.000 and not 0. I guess for a BS it costs quite a bit more..
Following your flawed logic it is best not to insure at all, since it has the highest possible efficiency.
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Knoppaz
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:18:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Knoppaz on 08/06/2006 10:21:51
Originally by: Leshrac Shepherd
Originally by: Knoppaz
Originally by: Aramendel
Not only that, Letifer Deus is actually substracting those 30 mils *right above* that comment.
To make it a little clearer:
40 (basic payout) - 0 (basic insurance cost) = 40 (payout after insurance costs)
100 (platinum payout) - 30 (platinum insurance cost) = 70 (payout after insurance costs)
Although I wouldn't exactly call them "30 mils free" but "30 mils less lost", it's not like you make profit when getting your ship blown up.
Where do you get those 0 from. Basic insurance for my Proph cost 1.275.000 and not 0. I guess for a BS it costs quite a bit more..
Following your flawed logic it is best not to insure at all, since it has the highest possible efficiency.
Flawed logic, eh?
Where did I ever say it's best to not insure at all? I just said that basic insurance is the best option. The only flaw on my side was to first asume that basic insurance would save you money while in reality neither basic nor plat insurance saves you money -edit to make it 100% clear: over the other insurance that is. Both save you money over not insuring at all  - (as I noticed in my second reply). Nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe your flawed logic made you asume im completely against insurance
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:29:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Aramendel on 08/06/2006 10:29:57
Originally by: Knoppaz
Where do you get those 0 from. Basic insurance for my Proph cost 1.275.000 and not 0. I guess for a BS it costs quite a bit more..
Badly phrased, make that "no insurance". But for all intends and means "no insurance" IS the basic insurance since you get some money back. Normally when you break something you did not insure you get nothing (aka nada, zip, zilch).
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Redsteel
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:30:00 -
[38]
ok, short version.
if you do pvp and get blown up, insure your ship at max.
if you use it for whatever is not a high risk do not insure it.
tbh, my combat ships last half insurance period, best scenario.
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:32:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Leshrac Shepherd on 08/06/2006 10:33:08
Originally by: Knoppaz
Where did I ever say it's best to not insure at all?
Where did I say you said that? I only said that if one were to follow your reasoning, the best scenario would be never insuring.
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Knoppaz
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Posted - 2006.06.08 10:42:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Knoppaz on 08/06/2006 10:46:55
K, time to edit the headline again. It may be misleading..
edit: *looks at headline* Better now?
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.08 11:40:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Aramendel on 08/06/2006 11:41:07
No, not exactly. The main thing is (which you still do not get) is that platinum insurance gives you *always* more than basic insurance. Plantinum is always worth it.
As was said before, you calculate it wrong.
It's pretty easy actually: The amount of money you put into the insurance is increasing the money you get paid out by twice that amount.
NO insurance still gives you 40% of the max insurance back if your ship gets destroyed. With the Prophecy numbers:
No insurance: 40% of 2.550.000 -> 10.200.000 payout
Basic insurance: 10.200.000 + 2* 1.275.000 -> 12.750.000 payout
Standart insurance: 10.200.000 + 2 * 2.550.00 -> 15.300.000 payout
...
Platinum insurance: 10.200.000 + 2* 7.650.000 -> 25.500.000 payout
The "effciency" of every single insurance option over the "no insurance" is exactly the same. Should the ship get destroyed in the insurance time you get twice the insurance money back (in addition to the basic money you would get back if you wouldn't insure at all).
In short:
You ALWAYS got 40% of the max insurance back if your ship gets destroyed.
Any additional insurance (from basic to platinum) is basically a gamble:
- Should the insurance run out without the ship doing BOOM you loose the money you invested into the insurance. If basic you loose 1.275k, if platinum you loose 7.650k
- Should the ship get destroyed you get on top of the 40% payout *twice* the invested insurance money. Half of the is getting the money back you paid for the insurance, half is the same amount in profit. You gain (AFTER you substracted the money paid for the insurance) 1.275k for basic, 7.650k for platinum.
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Mathias Black
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Posted - 2006.06.08 12:35:00 -
[42]
Knoppaz - People have already told you a few times, your math is wrong; you are subtracting the cost of the insurance twice. Here:
Quote:
platinum cost - basic cost = 6.375.000
basic effective payout + 6.375.000 = platinum effective payout
Look at your chart. You are getting a total of 12,750,000 MORE back with the plat than with the basic. THEN you subtract the difference in cost, which gives you a net gain of 6,375,000 with the plat. Your "effective payout" column already takes into account the price of the insurance, you can't subtract the price of the insurance again if you use that column. Your "effective payout" column represents the pure "profit", more or less, that you are getting. You can subtract the profit of plat from the profit of basic to get the same number: 6,375,000. That's pure profit; you can't subtract the price of the insurance again since it's been taken into account already.
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Knoppaz
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Posted - 2006.06.08 13:24:00 -
[43]
K, where is my nerdcap already?
Aramendels last post finally gave me a clue (took long, I know  ).
Hey, at least I admit that I'm wrong and pretty stubborn at times 
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Macro Media
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Posted - 2006.06.08 13:52:00 -
[44]
You guys have not got a clue.
Imagine a Ship that costs 100 isk mineral value, and you bought it for 100 isk.
no insurance gives you 40 isk back = net loss of 60 isk
Plat gives you 100 isk back, but the insurance is 30 isk = 30 isk loss.
All insurance is doing is minamising your loss from 60%(no Insurance) to reducing it to 30% (platinum).
--
The Scammers Cookbook |
Alkalja
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:57:00 -
[45]
Hm, cool thread - guess I understood the principle of insurance for the first time. 
What a pity that RL insurance companies have to make money theirselves... 
Agreed that platinium insurance is best when you want to insure your ship against loss.
But:
It totally screws up when I try to find out whether it is really sensible to blow up the ship yourself at the last day of the insurance 
My first thought would be that it is better to maintain the ship as usually you won't get a new ship for the money you get from insurance...
BTW: How do you manage to get your profile pic near the posting? Where to activate this?
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:14:00 -
[46]
I can't believe people are actually arguing this stuff.
Insurance is simple, and there's only one way to look at it.
T1 PvP ship = Full insurance, if it lasts more than 3 months, pop it just before the insurance expires and wear less stabs.
T2 ships = It doesn't matter
T1 ratting/mining/mission ships = No insurance, you're not going to lose these ships, certainly you shouldn't be losing them as often as once every 3 months.
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Macro Media
You guys have not got a clue.
Imagine a Ship that costs 100 isk mineral value, and you bought it for 100 isk.
no insurance gives you 40 isk back = net loss of 60 isk
Plat gives you 100 isk back, but the insurance is 30 isk = 30 isk loss.
All insurance is doing is minamising your loss from 60%(no Insurance) to reducing it to 30% (platinum).
You missed the point.
The OP was never suggestion using no insurance, rather he was suggesting just using the lowest level of insurance (called Basic).
On the Propecy the difference in payout between the lowest teir and the top teir insurance is about 7.5 Million. The Cost to buy the top teir insurance over the lowest teir insurace is funnily enough, also about 7.5 Million ISK.
Therefore buying the lowest teir insurance on the prophecy is no different from buying the platimum insurance. If you buy the lowest teir you have an extra 7.5 Million ISK in your wallet after pruchasing the insurance. However your payout is lower. If you buy the platinum insurance you get 7.5 Million extra after the destruction of your ship.
theres no difference really.....you just have to choose when you want your ISK. Personally I prefer to go for Platinum in the Prophecy regardless as it is always nice getting a larger figure back after a ship loss.
On the other hand in the time I spent flying the Prophecy, I could have invested that 7.5 Million ISK in market orders and made potentially more money on the deal.
Is that clearer for everyone?
Signature Remove, not Eve related. -ReverendM ([email protected] |
Sphynx Stormlord
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:54:00 -
[48]
All the insurance is of the same quality, because your ship is effectivly insured at a 40% rate for free.
So:
Insurance % | Cost
40% free
50% 5%
60% 10%
70% 15%
...
100% 30%
When your ship blows, you get paid the free 40% plus twice the amount you paid for the insurance contract. (EG basic 40% + 2x5% = 50%, plat 40% + 2x30% = 100%)
Insurance is thus good value if you expect that you have a 50% or higher chance of getting blown up in the period.
And how much you spend on it, is just a matter of how much you are prepared to wager that someone is going to blow your ship up for you over the period.
Sadly you are only allowed to wager 30% of your ships listed value; although if one could wager much more then there would be a lot of incentive to make a ship to get it blown up and collect the insurance.
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.09 16:41:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
On the other hand in the time I spent flying the Prophecy, I could have invested that 7.5 Million ISK in market orders and made potentially more money on the deal.
In theory, but I do not think it would actually happen often in the game. Insurance is, should the ship blow up, effeciently a 200% markup. Unless you get lucky it's unlikely you would manage that with a single session of playing the market. Also, insuring takes about 5 seconds, browsing through the market is less timeeffecient
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Macro Media
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Posted - 2006.06.10 01:22:00 -
[50]
I suggest people to check their maths. Each isk of insurance returns 2 isk back.
I have already said, with plat insurance, your total loss on the deal is 30%. This is because of the cost of insurance.
With no insurance,yous loss on the deal is 60%. 1 third of the inbetween is what you pay in isk. the other 2 thirds are payed to you from the insurance company.
--
The Scammers Cookbook |
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Daetlus Marconia
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Posted - 2006.06.10 19:14:00 -
[51]
As this document actually shows:
Total Payout - Cost - No insurance payout = Effective Payout
Effective Payout being money that you would have never seen PERIOD had you not paid for insurance at all. In every single case you are getting 3 isk for every 1 isk you paid in insurance costs, or an effective 2 FREE isk for every 1 isk investment
Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
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