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ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
196
   |
Posted - 2014.06.04 07:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL;DR: Revoke interceptor immunity to one type of bubble, for example a HIC bubble. Keep immunity to other types of bubbles.
Like everyone else, I've enjoyed the near-complete safety afforded by brainless gate-to-gate travel through nullsec in my dual-stabbed interceptor. However, I think it's a bit too much "easy mode," as evidenced by the thousands of intys used throughout New Eden as fast, near-zero-risk travel through 0.0. Note my use of "near-" in this paragraph: I'm aware that it is possible (but not guaranteed) to catch a dual-stabbed Inty on a gate using 3 or more linked, resebo'ed points, or with a smartbombing battleship that gets lucky enough with server ticks to see the inty on D-scan before it lands and time its SB activation properly.
Some benefits of the proposed change:
- It still leaves Intys as a very safe method of travel, but it offers one reliable counter to them
- This is a counter that intys can still avoid with a bit of caution, but they can't ignore it completely
- HIC bubbles are a natural choice, since the ships already have the "infinite point" capability in the lore
- Because HICs aren't as widely used as anchored bubbles or the dessie-hull interdictors, it may give folks a reason to fly them a bit more
- HICs are much slower warping than intys and dictors, which would help keep their utility against intys somewhat in check
- A HIC is fairly slow on grid in relation to an Inty, so HICs would be unlikely to catch and kill intys inside their own bubbles without teamwork (group play is a central tenant of Eve)
- It may give fleets a reason to start using covops again as scouts instead of just intys
Based on the above, I think I'm suggesting a pretty balanced change. Full disclosure, I am first and foremost a PVP'er and I do want to be able to kill stuff. I also use intys for travel, but I do think most ships should have a realistic counter. I don't think that the suggested change will result in certain deaths for all the intys out there. I do think it will take intys a bit less out of their "easy mode" travel role. I think the change will promote less AFK play and more healthy PVP. |
Karen Avioras
Unsung Heroes
Spaceship Samurai
768
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 07:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. **** off. |
Saisin
State War Academy
Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 07:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ibelieve this issue has been addressed somewhat by CCP reducing the agility of intys, but I agree with the op that this may not have solved the issue.
I would not remove the bubble immunity, but I would suggest that when a HIC load their bubble mod with a focused script their locking time becomes way faster, and potentially a threat to even the fastest aligning intys.
In exchange, removing the focused mod would be as long as reloading the warp disrupt probes on an regular interdictor.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope
http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1099
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 08:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Saisin wrote:... I would suggest that when a HIC load their bubble mod with a focused script their locking time becomes way faster, and potentially a threat to even the fastest aligning intys [...]
That's just as bad. if you want faster lock times, equip the necessary modules and have someone with remote sensor boosters and/or a command ship with the appropriate gang assist modules.
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Kenzore
Universal Fleet Operations
The Unthinkables
4
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 08:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nice idea, but maybe hic bubbles could slow the align time of any ship caught inside it, instead of prevent warp all together making it easier to catch them. For this the hic would have to catch the inti as it warps into system rather than draging them out of warp. |
ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
197
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 09:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Good points so far about alternative approaches to this. Maybe this proposal should morph into the larger issue of Tiericide, specifically the rebalancing of HICs.
HICs could be used as a counter to not just Intys, but any nullified ships (e.g., T3 Cruisers). And the counter doesn't have to be simply a bubble that stops all ships. It could involve scripts to "flavor" the HIC's bubble. For example, the HIC could script its bubbles to catch nullified ships OR non-nullified ships, but not both. Or affect speed/agility/mass of certain other ship types (e.g., nullifieds, cloakeys) inside the bubble but not prevent warps. Different effects could be visible to other pilots by continuing the theme of different colored bubbles. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 09:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
ROXGenghis wrote:For example, the HIC could script its bubbles to catch nullified ships OR non-nullified ships, but not both.
Will work only if reload times set to at least several minutes, there are always eyes on the other side of a gate.
But I like the idea about different flavors for HICs, they need it. And that idea from above, about slowing down the warp for nullified ship (and. perhaps the speed of cloacking movement for all those who using covert ops cloaks) with HIC bubles are actually good one too.
Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client:-álink |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
2681
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 10:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
+1
Death to Interceptors Online
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
62
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 10:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maybe stabs should more severe on the cons of using them? Seems too specific on using inty as example. Use the T3 cruiser as example than a cruiser vs a frigate issue dealing with signatures... Maybe your tacklers should actually use painters? HIC may need a rebalance but not sure if this is it.
Is that my two cents or yours? |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2298
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 10:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Karen Avioras wrote:No. **** off.
this.
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1100
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 10:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Is still think inty's should stay immune to bubbles and that bubbles should be not able to affect interceptors in any way at all. That's what interdiction nullifying is there for after all.
And if an interceptor pilot really does use a double stab setup, just use more scramblers.
The "wahwah interceptors" posts that pop up all over the forums lately sound exactly like the "afk cloaking rage" froma few months ago, only this time it's not the carebears that are whining. 
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 10:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:The "wahwah interceptors" posts that pop up all over the forums lately sound exactly like the "afk cloaking rage" froma few months ago, only this time it's not the carebears that are whining.
You know, I'm a cloaking ship pilot (training for the BO right now), and I hate simplistic, unbalanced cloaking gameplay in EVE to the guts.
Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client:-álink |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1100
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 10:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Debora Tsung wrote:The "wahwah interceptors" posts that pop up all over the forums lately sound exactly like the "afk cloaking rage" froma few months ago, only this time it's not the carebears that are whining. You know, I'm a cloaking ship pilot (training for the BO right now), and I hate simplistic, unbalanced cloaking gameplay in EVE to the guts.
It's simplistic, I give you that. But unbalanced? No.
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 11:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:But unbalanced? No.
After someone chose good spot and cloaked here in a system, you can't at all press him in any way. But he is still able, for example, call for support and bring his cloaked gang here anytime, so he can press and terrorize you - while staying AFK most of the time - pretty well. While you to counteract this tactic have to always keep some patrool forces on guard all the time atk. This total AFK immunity (like that ultimate protection while docked in station, which is another bad decision, in my opinion) forcing other party to be atk all the time is what I would call a lack of balance.
Well, as an actual pilot of those ship, simplicity concern me much more, but I can't call it balanced either.
Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client:-álink |
Sato Page
BLOOGDORY
125
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 11:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Post your kill mail.
Dinsdale Pirannha for CEO of CCP |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
The Volition Cult
771
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 11:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Karen Avioras wrote:No. **** off. this.
These. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1101
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 11:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ray Kyonhe wrote:[...]good spot[...] lack of balance. There is no friggin immunity when will you guys finally get that into your bony skulls?! 
You wrote something, and I am sure you thought it was quite clever and matter of fact down to the earth, but really all I read was "HALP! there's other players in mah yard!" and "Teh others are to clever, nerf brain! BRAINS ARE OP!"
You're... You know what, screw it, just follow the link in my signature.
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Arean Proktor
Eternal Darkness.
Get Off My Lawn
6
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 12:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Ray Kyonhe wrote:[...]good spot[...] lack of balance. There is no friggin immunity when will you guys finally get that into your bony skulls?! You wrote something, and I am sure you thought it was quite clever and matter of fact down to the earth, but really all I read was " HALP! there's other players in mah yard!" and "Teh others are to clever, nerf brain! BRAINS ARE OP!" You're... You know what, screw it, just follow the link in my signature.
... Debora your post has nothing to do with Ray-¦s post at all... just make you look ... not smart at all... if you Quote a post read it or gtfo |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries
Silent Infinity
411
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 12:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
I will be happy if the T2 bubble generator can shutdown MWDs and MJDs. Possibly only when scripted for focused infini point. |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
216
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 12:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Another "Make my Blue Space Safe" thread....
Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á-á - Freyya |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
850
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 12:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
How about we get rid of stationary bubbles?
Then HICs will see a lot more use
This way interdiction immunity is no longer such a breaker |
ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
202
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 14:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
So far, so good. On the second page now and so far nobody has been able to explain why the op is a bad idea. Most negative responses are trolls or from people with relatively little related PVP experience.
To the "post your killmail troll": your troll makes no sense. I'm trying to generate PVP with this, not avoid it.
To the "make my blue space safe" troll: I don't live in sov space and welcome any targets into my system because all I do is PVP. Besides, Intys will still be 95% uncatchable with my proposal, I'm just saying let's get the percentage down from 99% uncatchable.
To those who haven't experienced intys before they got bubble immunity: it was already almost impossible for a competent inty pilot to die to a bubble camp before they got immunity. Inties are one of my favorite ships to fly and I think I've lost maybe two inties in 6 years to bubble camps. Bubble immunity is a luxury, not a necessity for safe travel.
To the "f off" people: I'm happy to entertain any _explained_ objections to the proposal. I change my mind all the time when presented with compelling arguments, something I have to do all the time at my job. When CCP reads this thread it will help if you guys post reasoned objections, or else they will just ignore you and the likelihood of my proposal being implemented goes up rather than down. Stop shooting yourselves in the foot. |
Kenzore
Universal Fleet Operations
The Unthinkables
5
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 15:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
There is another alternative, but its going to cuase a lot of troll... anyways "on activation of hic bubble, any gate within the hic bubble denies jumping for 30 seconds. :P |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
850
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 16:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Your issue is you are treating the symptom not the cause
Lets step back and look at lowsec
Diverse fleets and ships, differing battles and it still has the urded camps
Now why is this not the case in nullsec?
Largely its the bubbles
That is the fear of them and their actuality
Dont want to take something that cant escape a bubble, it will just die
If in a bubble high odds of death if I cant get out fast
So you are left only seeing ships that can reliably get out of a bubble for small gangs and blob, we dont care, for larger
So again the real issue is that bubbles are actually the issue
They make people interested in free roams and small gang, make people want fast and cloaky ships and generally are the driver behind all the complaints
So simply, get rid of stationary bubbles, perhaps convert them into deployable scram or disruptor towers so you can nuke and escape
Now you have changed the perceived risk and people start fighting more
Then its just hotdrops and n+1 blobs left |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
Special Circumstances Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 16:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:"HALP! there's other players in mah yard!" and "Teh others are to clever, nerf brain! BRAINS ARE OP!"
The problem with AFK cloacking is that it doesn't require brains at all. And while it doesn't, it does require some brains and much of effort from those who percieve it as a threat.
And adding some tools to the game, which will be able to combat AFK cloakers won't actually break something. If you want to be AFK, just log off. If you are gathering intel or hunting - be atk. It's not a genious revelation at all, just a common sense.
Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client:-álink |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
858
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 16:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Saisin wrote:
I would not remove the bubble immunity, but I would suggest that when a HIC load their bubble mod with a focused script their locking time becomes way faster, and potentially a threat to even the fastest aligning intys.
That's stupid and entirely impractical, thanks to the fact that the server runs on 1-second ticks.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole
274
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 16:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Velicitia wrote:Karen Avioras wrote:No. **** off. this. These.
The reason the OP received these responses is because this idea has been posted any times before and shot down many times before.
It's not a problem. Cepters can be stopped the same way you stop anyone in lowsec. CCP doesn't need to make the safe blue donut any safer. Especially since all you need to do is fit sebos.
Schrodinger's Hot Dropper |
Bohneik Itohn
Periphery Bound
218
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 16:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Because blowing up ships is the only way content is made, of course. That pilot couldn't possibly be in the middle of doing something that would allow the whole shipsplosion process to even be possible. Absolutely unfathomable.
If the ceptor has stabs on, he's not doing anything interesting anyways. He's certainly not shooting you.
The Eve universe is frickin' huge, and while travel should always carry some risk, it shouldn't always carry a heavy risk, because then you end up with a gridlocked game. If people start losing too many ships while they are just moving around taking care of the grunt work that they need to do so that they can get back to their pew, people will start huddling up in smaller and smaller areas to do those activities in, until you see absolutely no traffic at all. Enjoy no targets.
Go ahead and let that ceptor pass. If you shoot him while he's trying to do something other than PvP, all you've done is delay the time it takes for him to get back to doing PvP. And now that he knows you're there, he might even bring some good fights your way.
There is no drawback to letting people move THROUGH your sphere of influence who have no intention of creating conflict. When they MOVE IN, or TAKE FROM, or CONTEST that sphere of influence, you have just begun an interesting piece of content.
Is alphaing a non-aggressor really that interesting that you've got to request balance changes to get more of it? Is it exciting, knowing you will never see returning fire from those WCS'd interceptors because they will never be able to lock you before popping?
Can't you think of anything more engaging to add to the game? Let's work on that, shall we?
Ray Kyonhe wrote:Debora Tsung wrote:"HALP! there's other players in mah yard!" and "Teh others are to clever, nerf brain! BRAINS ARE OP!"
The problem with AFK cloacking is that it doesn't require brains at all. And while it doesn't, it does require some brains and much of effort from those who percieve it as a threat. And adding some tools to the game, which will be able to combat AFK cloakers won't actually break something. If you want to be AFK, just log off. If you are gathering intel or hunting - be atk. It's not a genious revelation at all, just a common sense.
Stay on topic, and don't be wrong please.....
Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á-á - Freyya |
|
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3082
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 18:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
Removed some off topic posts.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department |
|
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1101
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 18:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Arean Proktor wrote:... Debora your post has nothing to do with Ray-¦s post at all... just make you look ... not smart at all... if you Quote a post read it or gtfo
I'll just quote a part of his post here: " [...] This total AFK immunity [...]"
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
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