| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dark Shikari
   |
Posted - 2006.06.13 22:20:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/06/2006 22:20:53
 Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: HippoKing
Holy Jesus Mother of Mary
They returned the isk?Wtf?The ubiqua seraph can now ask for their money back and the BPO too?
I don't think the Ubiqia heist was done through the forums 
CCP did this by changing the forum rules (check the sell order rules) and then applying them ex post facto. They do this all the time--its nothing new.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
|
Humpalot
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 22:24:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Pesadel0
They returned the isk?Wtf?The ubiqua seraph can now ask for their money back and the BPO too?
I do not know if returning the ISK was a good idea or not (and FTR I was not an investor) but I think the folks here need to see that this is indeed a different beast than other scams.
Most of EVE has in-game mechanics that allow players options to protect themselves.
- Want to gank my indie? I can fly a transport or move stuff in a battleship or have friends fly with me (or whatever).
- Want to sell me a battleship on escrow that is really a piece of veldspar? My fault for not inspecting the merchandise before I bought.
- Want to spend a year working your way into a corp's confidence and then rob them blind? Fine, the corp has available mechanisms to protect their stuff and handed the keys to the stuff to the wrong people.
- Want to steal my ore? I can shoot back at you if I am so inclined.
The above are fine and non-reimburseable because mechanisms exist to respond to those actions or protect yourself from them.
With this scam the player used out of game mechanics and there are NO in-game mechanics with which to protect yourself. I think (do not know) that CCP is probably thrilled at the IPO system in EVE. How cool is it that an online game can have such remarkably advanced content? Few if any other games can boast as much.
My guess is CCP would like to see the IPO/Stock Market in EVE thrive. A scam such as this throws investor confidence down the tubes and breaks the whole system. In general when someone is stupid in business they declare bankruptcy and that's the end. But if the failure is so big as to threaten the whole system then others step in to prevent it (e.g. Chrysler getting bailed out by the US government many years back). This is akin to that. Simply too much damage to what might become yet another remarkable aspect of EVE occurred here.
One will hope that CCP introduces in-game mechanisms to handle some of this but till then people get their ISK back. Once in-game mechanics exist then scammers can have at it if they can.
I know it is easy to think "a fool and his money are soon parted" bet then how did a fool and his money ever get together in the firts place?
At the end of it all the scam really is not all that comendable in its cleverness. Just someone decided to trade in their reputation for some ISK is all. Bound to happen I guess.
|
Taka
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 22:31:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Weebear
Originally by: Juutalainen
Tbh i think its a bit unfair on all partys involved, Eve needs somthing gms should give back isk and ban op only fair thing to do it seems like a scam on the forums.
You can't ban the OP, scamming isn't against the EULA.
If the possibilty of unfair things happening in this game wasn't there then 90% of people wouldn't play.
I thought Using the forums to scam people was a banable offence and could lead to al isk being sent back to the origional isk owners?
--------------------
My Sig Got Podded!!
Removed second image, please limit your signature images to one - Petwraith
|
Jaos Nekri
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 22:53:00 -
[64]
I have yet to see a rule in the forums regarding their use for scamming.
I'm not applauding the OP, but I'm not condemning them either. It's a part of EVE life.
There's a rather foolproof method for protecting yourself against IPO scammers: only invest in companies you know are legit, or in people you know are legit. Do some homework. Check backgrounds. Contact previous employers.
There's plenty of legitimate corps out there to invest in that you don't need to invest in green startups, if you don't want to. If you want to, you're accepting the risk of doing so.
Common sense will prevent this from affecting you.
|
Orree
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 22:57:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Zyth Morduc
Welcome to three years ago
That story is made up afaik.
It's geniune.
Incredibly interesting read.
I'd really have to hate someone to do that to them. I don't think I could go through with a scam of any magnitude, let alone one of the proportion written about by this guy (or of the OP. for that matter). I actually felt bad for HardHead...heheh.
|
Minuet
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 23:13:00 -
[66]
People need to read, understand, and think more before they post primarily under the influence of their emotions.
The protections extended by CCP under the "no scam" rule applies only to threads posted under the SELL ORDER forum. This is not unilateral protection -- those of you who want to can still scam...just elsewhere.
|
Tristan Acoma
|
Posted - 2006.06.13 23:31:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Minuet
People need to read, understand, and think more before they post primarily under the influence of their emotions.
The protections extended by CCP under the "no scam" rule applies only to threads posted under the SELL ORDER forum. This is not unilateral protection -- those of you who want to can still scam...just elsewhere.
But, as stated elsewhere, the punishment from scamming in the forums is, well, only a punishment in the forums, not in-game.
Unless it involves WTC or Char Auctions.
logic, reason, 4tw. 
|
Nahia Senne
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 00:08:00 -
[68]
CCP only regulates time cards and char auctions, nothing else. if they make a new forum rule, fine... but all the stupidity that has happen in the past should not be rewarded.
how many of you would send out 2bil isk to a completely random person? would you consider someone who did such a ting to be an idiot?
|
Scary Noises
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 00:20:00 -
[69]
Anyone, no matter their ISK or SP, can completely protect themselves from a simple scam like this by not being completely braindead. You just don't give the strange, unknown person lots of ISK.
For many things in Eve it's hard to actually get revenge. Unless someone owns assets like POS or Outposts then you may never harm them. Docked at an NPC station, cloaked at a safespot, highsec in noobcorp, even logging off.
While the stock market does need a lot more dev time, it doesn't need an GM-Enforced moron guard. |
Profhet
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 00:30:00 -
[70]
I think the smacktalk started with the op jerking her own chain.
My only comment is the risk vs reward is way out of balance in these kinds of instances.
|
Lienzo
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 00:42:00 -
[71]
Breaking the rules in the game = ingame consequences.
Breaking the rules of the forum = forum consequences.
Never betwixt shall they meet. This is a major victory for carebears everywhere, and a major loss to those who actually comprehend the meaning behind "trust." Trust is category rather than a uniform characteristic. Breaking someone's trust (lowering it) in someone makes those that have sought to deserve trust have higher equity.
By protecting those who don't understand the concept, GMs have given the shaft to every hardworking entrepreneur that has slaved away for the trust of his associates.
The GMs have made an error. And now they can't undo it. So they suck today. =P
I still think most of them do a pretty good job usually though.
Assault Missile Launcher Improvement
|
Balklanac
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 01:29:00 -
[72]
Well I am sure for many this was overshadowed by the amount of isk taken in, but I found it hilarious that he gave a link to 'you are an idiot' flash animation and in doing so he double posted revealing his main .
As for the GM giving isk back, who knows they can be a shadowy bunch and I doubt more victims will be forthcoming with GM refunds on the forums considering the flamage this has spilled into accross the forums.
Personally I would like to see that players are given the appropriate tools in-game to sort themselves out rather than placing a band-aid on something people just do ie: lie,cheat and steal.
-------------------------------
|
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 02:18:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Danks
Originally by: Tristan Acoma
Originally by: stingy CEO
Edited by: stingy CEO on 13/06/2006 10:36:23
People here congratulating her don't get the point, seriously, they all think i'm whining about losing some isk, i SPIT at 2 billion.
If it's so worthless, don't suppose I could hit you up for a cool 1 billion? :)
Forget begging, I think I just found our next war dec 
stinky's just an alt used as the face of his operation iirc.
his other chars include an 'exclusively faction-fitted pvp char', and some NPC-corp freighter pilot iirc from his orginal thread.
|
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 02:19:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Zyth Morduc
Welcome to three years ago
That story is made up afaik.
It's geniune.
Proof plz.
|
Evil Bill
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 05:12:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Janette
Hi, my name is Janette and I'm a scammer.
I recently pulled off a scam which you may or may not have heard of.
This is my side of the story.
This is one of the bigger scams in EVE and is quickly becoming known simply as "The SVE scam".
It all started when I was reading through ISS's IPO and thought to myself, that will never work. Later I found out it was very successful and made people lots of isk.
Then at their second IPO I saw even more interest, not surprising in light of their other IPO's success and soon afterwards IPOs started becoming quite popular.
I started to wonder what's the guarantee they'll make isk at all to begin with since so many people are investing?
Turns out there isn't any.
How simple it would be to just walk away with the isk.
Later on EGSE comes along with real *experts* that keow all about IPOs, I don't view them as real experts as there isn't much to know about them in the first place, but people seemed to trust them. This was the perfect time to strike, a lot of IPOs recently successful and people are beginning to be quite greedy.
So I layed the groundwork, wrote up a business plan and asked Exelsior to help me finish it. It was a simple idea, buy t2 BPOs and produce the items. I tryed to make the business plan very simple because, well, people are stupid.
Later Omber Zombie a well known and respected person in the community logs on, Exelsior knew him so I invite him to the convo. We talked about it and it was quite easy to convince him into being a trustee. After about 10 minutes he asked "So, what do I have to do?"
The pieces were falling into place.
They posted in my thread confirming that they will be looking at the progress and making sure I don't steal the profits.
24 hrs later I post a Sell Order thread.
My Inbox was instantly bombarded and I was recieving convos sooner than I could press accept on the earlier one.
4 hours into the actual sale I'd already made 19 billion, I kept on making small sales every now and then.
The next day I woke up with 25 billion sitting in my wallet.
I was quite satisfied with it and once I could quit my corporation I changed the original business plan to one sentence including a link and awaited the flames.
The flames you can easily find in Market Discussion portion of the forums but since you're lazy and you know you are here's a link and another link and another link and another link.
I implore you not to flame ths thread but simply say shame on you and your point will be made.
To the people who call for banning and reimbursement, let me remind you that through stunts like this people grow stronger. They learn not to let greed totally override intelligence. Reimbursements and banning will only reinforce the "there are no consequences for my stupidity" mentality most people in the West go through life with.
Personally I think this kind of thing is a hoot. In a universe where there are consequences the stupid will fall prey and become smart, or perish. The way it should be.
Hopefully CCP doesn't ever reimburse (again) for scams. I've never scammed but I see their value as a growth tool for the stupid and lame minded. Besides, it's a game. Better to learn the lesson here than in real life where real lives are at stake. |
The Weaver
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 06:53:00 -
[76]
Edited by: The Weaver on 14/06/2006 06:54:02
Originally by: Evil Bill
Hopefully CCP doesn't ever reimburse (again) for scams. I've never scammed but I see their value as a growth tool for the stupid and lame minded. Besides, it's a game. Better to learn the lesson here than in real life where real lives are at stake.
In real life, a person who pulled off a similiar scam would soon be sharing a jail cell with Ken Lay, and the money that was stolen would be returned.
Here's the problem. Most scams can be avoided by not being a gullible fool. Inspect that escrow merchandise to see you're buying a CNR, not a single unit of trit. Ask that bookmark seller for a couple sample BMs to test them out for accuracy. Don't give new corp members unfettered access to the corp hangar.
The problem is, there is no protection against IPO scams, other than completely shutting down the market, and anyone who thinks that is a viable or desireable solution is a moron. Yes, you can try to avoid scams by only investing in established names, but with the isk totals involved in IPOs, even an established character would get a net gain in running off with tens of billions of isk and letting their main become a pariah. If CCP lets IPO scamming go unpunished, then the only IPOs left will be the ones backed by large, long established market corps.
|
Omber Zombie
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 07:52:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
I'd not trust Omber Zombie with 1 isk myself, what kind of people do? It's not like he's the posterboy for virtue.
Pardon me?
Do i know you?
----------------------
|
Guth
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 09:03:00 -
[78]
I agree with Stingy CEO. This is extremely bad for the FUTURE BUSINESS of EVE. Making 25 bil is not worth making a whole segment of a market stagnate because of trust issues.
But then again, thats a long term effect, and most people on the forums dont seem to think long term.
As always im expecting the "go play WOW if you cant stand scams" or something equally moronoic in reply. Here is a nice fact for those guys: When you have MORE parasites than hosts, you got a problem with the whole balance of the system. If the current increase in scammers/scams isnt slowed down (by itself or CCP) we will reach that point. It just require you to lie a bit and be an *******, whilst actually making alot of isk yourself requires more from you.
Originally by: Magic Trev
"and how is she hailed by the 16 y/o poor pvp crowd: OMG CONGRATSJOOSOKEWL"
people like you genuinly **** me off... im 16, and know plenty of other 16 year old players in this game who are all perfectly mature and decent members of the community, yet we get classed as the flaming whingy types due to our age, well it seems to me the only person in this thread showing immaturity is yourself.
I ♥ irony
People like you generally **** ME off. I am sure he meant those that "act like 16 year olds mentally", whether that is 90% of the 16 year olds or those that are older and act less mature than their age.
As a general rule, 16 year olds ARENT GROWN UP. Get that through your head and stop being so sore about it. You and others you know in EVE might be more mature, but that still doesnt change the fact. Im sure there are some very sporty 70 year olds out there, but that doesnt mean all 70 year olds are in shape to run marathons now does it. Call it generalization, i dont care, age does have effects on people..
Factoid: Something fictitious that is presented as fact, devised especially to gain publicity and accepted because of constant repetition |
Maximillian Pele
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 09:18:00 -
[79]
I think the real problem here is of CCPs making.
CCP has created a mechanism to allow in game ISK to become ex game cash via GTC trading.
This means that a 25 bil scam can be converted into 3,000-4,000 USD or Euro via a mechanism CCP itself administers.
Already the game is being invaded by a increasing number of Macroers and Farmers. The markets were the obvious next target.
I have no idea what the person behind the characters who conducted this scams intention was. Given they exposed their main as well, it meant that they either had to create new characters to transfer the ISK to, or they could sell out for real life cash, and then buy new accounts and have a holiday on the balance.
I doubt we will ever hear from CCP why they took the action to refund, but having themselves created a link between ISK and RL cash they have left themselves little choice.
If one thing must change in Eve, the ISK/GTC trading must go.
|
Kitty O'Shay
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 09:28:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Guth
I agree with Stingy CEO. This is extremely bad for the FUTURE BUSINESS of EVE. Making 25 bil is not worth making a whole segment of a market stagnate because of trust issues.
He sold shares, people got shares. I didn't see one person complain that shares they wanted weren't delivered.
The only thing different about this scam was that the scammer came out and made a post about how how the greedy got stupid and he was in the right place at the right time.
If anything he's helped promote the idea of a stock market. People (almost) always wise up after a big shakeup. But I really can't speculate on how. Mainly because stocks in Eve are in the pre-exchange phase, and can only be gifted. (Given directly with no way to guarentee payment/delivery.)
And to anyone who thinks this was bad. Wait until CCP puts in a stock exchange (i.e. buy and sell orders for shares, etc.). I look forward to the screaming when the first large scale pump-and-dump is sucessfully completed. 
--
Carebear > Why'd you do that? I just got that ship!
Pirate > I just got that ammo, do you hear me whining? |
OrangeAfroMan
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 09:53:00 -
[81]
Originally by: stingy CEO
Edited by: stingy CEO on 13/06/2006 07:36:47
I lost 2 bil tbf, and I don't mind losing a single cent of it. Plenty more where that came from.
I just condemn what she did because it didn't have any positive side to it, she just destroyed the possibility for smaller corporations to IPO for awhile, and that hurts the POOR people who dont have billions to invest in chunks into bpo's, but that can afford some low priced shares.
She also turned alot of people into cynics, and has demonstrated that ccp are a bunch of bozo' s that prefer to create ships that maybe 2 people in the game can ever fly than to create some tools to make a stockmarket workable.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
FACT
and how is she hailed by the 16 y/o poor pvp crowd: OMG CONGRATSJOOSOKEWL
she is right about one thing , people are stupid.
Wow, good post man, especially being one of the unfortunate people in this situation. If I were you I probably wouldnt have admitted it and certainly wouldnt have been able to deal with the loss like that :) Kudos
Also very good point to your post - Perhaps CCP should sanction off more people into the Market Development Group...
Gronsak is Tux's angry alt. |
Raem Civrie
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 11:55:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Omber Zombie
Originally by: Wendat Huron
I'd not trust Omber Zombie with 1 isk myself, what kind of people do? It's not like he's the posterboy for virtue.
Pardon me?
Do i know you?
I routinely trust Omber Zombie with my life, love and vast riches.
♥
----
My Omber is second to none |
Kin Hanyerec
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 13:09:00 -
[83]
did Janette lost his isk then ? 
|
ParMizaN
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 13:27:00 -
[84]
Edited by: ParMizaN on 14/06/2006 13:27:40
What? Scamming on the sell forum is against the rules, is it not?
edit: haha OWNED
Simply reading the forum rules could have prevented you making such a fool of yourself.
BDCI Recruitment Officersig edited for lack of pink really
PINK -eris |
Alliaanna Dalaii
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 13:30:00 -
[85]
Originally by: ParMizaN
Edited by: ParMizaN on 14/06/2006 13:27:40
What? Scamming on the sell forum is against the rules, is it not?
edit: haha OWNED
Simply reading the forum rules could have prevented you making such a fool of yourself.
We haven't seen the op post since the isk was re-inbursed though. And if he was banned ingame I think thats trully disgusting.
the forum rules BEFORE stated there would be NO in game repurcusions. theyve now been changed due to this event 
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-=
|
Nira Li
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 14:27:00 -
[86]
Originally by: stingy CEO
[
and how is she hailed by the 16 y/o poor pvp crowd: OMG CONGRATSJOOSOKEWL
That's stupid to say..
If you were a mature grown up man or girl you would know better. Now you just sound like a unmature teenager your self.
You Will Cry My Name
Funny Guys
|
Uther Doull
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 14:28:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/06/2006 10:17:52
Good job. You've managed in a single day to not only betray trust that has been given to you, but to effectively destroy the whole EVE stock market system by making it impossible for any IPO to work.
The scam you did was so easy to pull off that it was in no way "cool." A friend of mine actually was considering doing it, and had planned the whole thing--it was pathetically easy!
I mean come on, its not as if she ran a Morbor-style scheme, or defrauded investors in some interesting fashion: she simply collected money and put up a link to a "You Are An Idiot SWF" that contains a virus.
And, unfortunately in EVE, there are no consequences to one's actions when one can simply buy a character and dump the old one. Alts for the lose .
Maybe if you did this with your main and continued to use your main afterwards (and didn't hide in an NPC corp to shield yourself from the wardecs), you might be considered worthy of any sort of praise. Istvaan Shogaatsu didn't hide in an NPC corp after robbing Ubiquia Seraph.
*hypocrisy sense... tingling...*
i seem to remember you taking the 'scamming is allowed and you're a fool for falling for it stance' in every 'buuhuu i got scammed post' you posted in
and now it happens to you and it's suddenly 'the end of the eve stock market'...
yeah right, this isn't the first ipo scam, and if ccp hadn't caved in to your whining it would not have been the last
good job on destroying what made eve stand out from the mass of 'holding your hand' mmo's
consider this, will people still start new ipo's now that they are 'protected' by ccp?
no, because now ppl that make a genuine effort and fail have are at risk of ccp's 'arbitrary arbitrage' and face ingame repurcusions far worse than just enraged investors
|
Darcuese
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 14:36:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Darcuese on 14/06/2006 14:38:43
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/06/2006 10:17:52
Good job. You've managed in a single day to not only betray trust that has been given to you, but to effectively destroy the whole EVE stock market system by making it impossible for any IPO to work.
.
Why next IPO wouldnt work????
Explain me please?
You invest with risk involved...pure and simple. You invest becouse you have trust in companies or ppl.
Without trust risk is much bigger....but chances for win or loss exist never the less.
With this rule of reimbursment, no matter if its done by forum (PART OF THE GAME-ESPECIALY SELL ORDERS-or stuff being sold through forum dont exist in game???), many aspects of game will become soft and ****y.
"Oh mamma, they took my money. Please tell them to give it back *crying*"
Bah, why do i repeat myself when ppl dont have enough capacity to understand
DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??
|
Blind Man
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 15:21:00 -
[89]
GM's ftw is all I can say..../sarcasm...
|
Maximillian Pele
|
Posted - 2006.06.14 15:32:00 -
[90]
Though unconfirmed it appears to have been the use of the marketplace forums that has resulted in this GM intervention. Hence the reason - after the fact excuse or otherwise - is that the non-scam status of those forums had to be maintained.
Hopefully CCP will comment and clear up the uncertainty surrounding this matter, but it appears that as long as you don't use the marketplace forums to conduct your scamming, you will be safe - maybe.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |