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Remiel Pollard
The 0th Fleet
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3402
   |
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't use them very much myself, and my inexperience with lasers and their balancing has led me to wondering... everything in the game, when damaged, can be repaired. Why not laser crystals? Before I suggest they should be repairable, I'd like to know if there's a reason they are not.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
[email protected] |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2209
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
SMARTBOMBS!
The case of the bottomless dress.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
|
Dominus Tempus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
164
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because the damage taken is effectively their 'ammo.'
Mining crystals can't be repaired either, last I checked. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2209
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dominus Tempus wrote:SMARTBOMBS! SMARTBOMBS !!
The case of the bottomless dress.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
|
Remiel Pollard
The 0th Fleet
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3402
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dominus Tempus wrote:Because the damage taken is effectively their 'ammo.'
Mining crystals can't be repaired either, last I checked.
That's true, and I discussed this with an alliance mate who uses lasers. One one hand, it means people are forced to restock their ammo, keeping it; 1) balanced in such a way that isk is spent to restore ammo reserves and, 2) it keeps the market for laser crystals alive. However, on the other hand, while I agree that repairable laser (and mining) crystals would reduce the market for them, it wouldn't die. People would still need them when replacing ship losses, and when building new ships. Additionally, repairs for crystals would still cost isk.
What we thought of was player-driven repair. No, not logi, but similar - corporations and/or players that can offer a repair service, rather than having NPC station services handling it, with maybe a skill and/or special office that corporation hires that can handle the process. That way, everything could be repairable, and it would add more "player driven" to a player-driven economy.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
[email protected] |
Dominus Tempus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
164
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree that there should be some balanced way to repair them, as long as it's done in a way that doesn't murder the value of faction crystals.
I'm far too OCD to use T2/faction crystals because I just cannot stand damage that can't be repaired. This is also why I quit mining a couple days after using my first mining crystals. (Regretted hulk training ever since) |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2213
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Smartbombs!
The case of the bottomless dress.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
|
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
343
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
What we thought of was player-driven repair. No, not logi, but similar - corporations and/or players that can offer a repair service, rather than having NPC station services handling it, with maybe a skill and/or special office that corporation hires that can handle the process. That way, everything could be repairable, and it would add more "player driven" to a player-driven economy.
Why?
What's wrong with them being depletable?
Why add another layer of complexity to a thing as simple as ammo?
It's ammo - you use it to shoot guns and it depletes over time. There shouldn't be much philosophy involved in the process. 
My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Amenity Project
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
What we thought of was player-driven repair. No, not logi, but similar - corporations and/or players that can offer a repair service, rather than having NPC station services handling it, with maybe a skill and/or special office that corporation hires that can handle the process. That way, everything could be repairable, and it would add more "player driven" to a player-driven economy.
Why? What's wrong with them being depletable? Why add another layer of complexity to a thing as simple as ammo? It's ammo - you use it to shoot guns and it depletes over time. There shouldn't be much philosophy involved in the process. Why would anyone shoot guns with ammo?
And ... how does that work? |
Remiel Pollard
The 0th Fleet
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3408
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
What we thought of was player-driven repair. No, not logi, but similar - corporations and/or players that can offer a repair service, rather than having NPC station services handling it, with maybe a skill and/or special office that corporation hires that can handle the process. That way, everything could be repairable, and it would add more "player driven" to a player-driven economy.
Why? What's wrong with them being depletable? Why add another layer of complexity to a thing as simple as ammo? It's ammo - you use it to shoot guns and it depletes over time. There shouldn't be much philosophy involved in the process.
I never said anything about them not being depletable. Check this out, if I have 500 shots left on a crystal, and I repair it so it has 1000 shots left, how is that different from having 500 rounds of antimatter and buying 500 more, apart from the fact that I'm not spending money on the market? This is why I brought up player-driven station repair services.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
[email protected] |
Subject 4927
The Last Service.
82
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
*sigh*
http://subjectandfriends.wordpress.com |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2213
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I never said anything about them not being depletable. Check this out, if I have 500 shots left on a crystal, and I repair it so it has 1000 shots left, how is that different from having 500 rounds of antimatter and buying 500 more, apart from the fact that I'm not spending money on the market? This is why I brought up player-driven station repair services. Tbqfh I don't really see the point of your idea.
It is different, because you don't buy 500 from the market.
When nobody does that anymore, what happens to prices?
The case of the bottomless dress.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
|
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2213
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hey, another awoxer! :D
The case of the bottomless dress.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
|
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
345
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Amenity Project wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
What we thought of was player-driven repair. No, not logi, but similar - corporations and/or players that can offer a repair service, rather than having NPC station services handling it, with maybe a skill and/or special office that corporation hires that can handle the process. That way, everything could be repairable, and it would add more "player driven" to a player-driven economy.
Why? What's wrong with them being depletable? Why add another layer of complexity to a thing as simple as ammo? It's ammo - you use it to shoot guns and it depletes over time. There shouldn't be much philosophy involved in the process. Why would anyone shoot guns with ammo? And ... how does that work?
I'm not a native English speaker and although my English is pretty good, I sometimes use grammar and sentence forming rules from my own language when in hurry or not paying enough attention But I think the most of the readers understood what I meant to say 
My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Remiel Pollard
The 0th Fleet
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3408
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 01:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I never said anything about them not being depletable. Check this out, if I have 500 shots left on a crystal, and I repair it so it has 1000 shots left, how is that different from having 500 rounds of antimatter and buying 500 more, apart from the fact that I'm not spending money on the market? This is why I brought up player-driven station repair services. Tbqfh I don't really see the point of your idea. It is different, because you don't buy 500 from the market. When nobody does that anymore, what happens to prices?
But that won't stop people from buying 500 from the market. As long as people are still buying new ships, they are buying new crystals for them as well. I did cover this above, already, and I even covered the part where I already know that such a thing would reduce the laser crystal market, hence the suggestion of player-driven station repair services to offset it. It would also have the bonus of introducing more "player-driven" aspects to a player-driven economy.
I've been over this, why am I repeating myself?
At the end of the day, I don't care either way, I'm just querying those with more experience with laser crystals. I barely use the things.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
[email protected] |
Amenity Project
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 02:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote: Okay. :D |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1330
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 02:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Amenity Project wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
What we thought of was player-driven repair. No, not logi, but similar - corporations and/or players that can offer a repair service, rather than having NPC station services handling it, with maybe a skill and/or special office that corporation hires that can handle the process. That way, everything could be repairable, and it would add more "player driven" to a player-driven economy.
Why? What's wrong with them being depletable? Why add another layer of complexity to a thing as simple as ammo? It's ammo - you use it to shoot guns and it depletes over time. There shouldn't be much philosophy involved in the process. Why would anyone shoot guns with ammo? And ... how does that work? I'm not a native English speaker and although my English is pretty good, I sometimes use grammar and sentence forming rules from my own language when in hurry or not paying enough attention But I think the most of the readers understood what I meant to say
I just thought you were speaking American. |
Amenity Project
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 02:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Why would they buy new ones,
when they can simply repair the old ones at less cost than buying new ones?
Your whole argument works only because you believe people will repair old ones. |
Amenity Project
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 02:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:I just thought you were speaking American. George Carlin. |
Remiel Pollard
The 0th Fleet
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3408
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 02:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Amenity Project wrote:Why would they buy new ones, when they can simply repair the old ones at less cost than buying new ones? Your whole argument works only because you believe people will repair old ones.
Except I'm not making an argument, I'm thinking out loud. Allow me to repeat myself again - I like blasters, and don't care one way or the other. We call it curiosity.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
[email protected] |
Subject 4927
The Last Service.
85
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 02:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
What's that?
http://subjectandfriends.wordpress.com |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
2214
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 02:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Amenity Project wrote:Why would they buy new ones, when they can simply repair the old ones at less cost than buying new ones? Your whole argument works only because you believe people will repair old ones. Except I'm not making an argument, I'm thinking out loud. Allow me to repeat myself again - I like blasters, and don't care one way or the other. We call it curiosity. You are not answering the question.
The question, which questions your question.
You want people to be able to repair their crystals.
I tell you that this would lead to people not buying crystals anymore.
You can argue that they still will, but it will be a drop in the bucket compared to now.
Tell me ... why would you think people will not rather repair them cheaper, than buying new ones?
Of course they would do that!
And the prices of crystals would drop rock bottom.
The case of the bottomless dress.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349499
- Cowards deserve punishment -
|
Remiel Pollard
The 0th Fleet
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3409
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 02:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Amenity Project wrote:Why would they buy new ones, when they can simply repair the old ones at less cost than buying new ones? Your whole argument works only because you believe people will repair old ones. Except I'm not making an argument, I'm thinking out loud. Allow me to repeat myself again - I like blasters, and don't care one way or the other. We call it curiosity. You are not answering the question. The question, which questions your question. You want people to be able to repair their crystals. I tell you that this would lead to people not buying crystals anymore. You can argue that they still will, but it will be a drop in the bucket compared to now. Tell me ... why would you think people will not rather repair them cheaper, than buying new ones? Of course they would do that! And the prices of crystals would drop rock bottom.
Okay, well, let me reiterate. 1. I was looking for an answer to a question, not an unhelpful question of my question, which I prepared carefully, stating clearly that I am already aware of a potential effect on the market, so repeating things I've already said is just redundant, 2. I don't want crystals to be repairable, I asked why they're not. There is a distinction here, and I stated quite clearly that I don't care one way or the other; 3. I already said I KNOW that people would be buying crystals less. What difference that would make to the market is unknown given that people are buying new ships all the time, to just assert it to be a drop in the ocean is not a quantifiable assertion, it is a guess, and it is as good a guess as mine when I suggest player-driven station repair services to replace NPC ones might offset it, and 4) why can't players decide how much they'll cost to repair if there are player-driven station repair services? And on that note, if they are NPC services, why can't CCP set the price for repairing valuable crystals high?
So, most of what you just said, I addressed above in no uncertain terms, but now I've also answered your fourth question, and I'm essentially repeating myself again so, if you ask questions that I've already answered again I may just have to report the post for trolling.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
[email protected] |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Journies End
238
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 03:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Years ago they used to be repairable. Really annoyed me when I found out they werent anymore too.
But I have no idea why they changed it just best guess is so youd consume more and drive more markets. Another annoy consequence is the odd idiot trying to sell them in jita through contracts or non repackagable free crystals stacking up in ur hangar over time.
Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
Remiel Pollard
The 0th Fleet
A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3411
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 03:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Well I'd be curious in finding out why it was changed to non-repairable, other than the obvious market implications if there are other reasons. It's not like it's broken or anything, it doesn't seem to be, I'm just curious really.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
[email protected] |
Garandras
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
190
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 03:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
The only reason i would want them repairable.. is so I can put the crystals i have looted off wreaks to be put back on the market |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
1576
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 03:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dominus Tempus wrote:Because the damage taken is effectively their 'ammo.'
Mining crystals can't be repaired either, last I checked.
Crystals can be repaired, but I believe that mining crystals can be reprocessed but lazor crystals cannot be. Maybe because you can't overheat mining lasers?
.. when everything else is gone .. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1372
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 05:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:Why? What's wrong with them being depletable? Why add another layer of complexity to a thing as simple as ammo? It's ammo - you use it to shoot guns and it depletes over time. There shouldn't be much philosophy involved in the process.
Because the current system is more complex, because unlike other ammo, you can't stack damaged crystals. So you end up with loads of partly damaged crystals lying around taking up awkward inv space in the list. While your faction antimatter stacks with itself all nice & tidy.
Repairing on it's own would however kill the crystal market, people are quite right.
So the simplest solution seen on this oft discussed topic is to allow 'Recutting' which is a stacking which can only be done in stations/pos Or heck, it 'could' be possible inside a ship cargo hold even.
Which takes your 4 25% crystals and makes a single 100% crystal out of them. This avoids 'creating' materials out of thin air, or bypassing manufacturing by keeping the overall crystal percentage intact but as 100% crystals can be stacked this means you won't end up with large numbers of partial crystals. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
820
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 06:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Simplest answer .... CCP are gradually trying to remove the differences between factions and make faction differences more a cosmetic thing in the name of "balance" and for Ammar T2 crystals are the equivalent of other factions ammo. |
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies
Evictus.
81
|
Posted - 2014.06.12 06:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
I don't think they should be repairable. Not everything is fixed by just putting a band-aid on it. But they should allow them to still stack even with dmg.
As for players owning repair services, you want that, then go to null sec and conquer a station giving people the right to dock and set the repair proce to whatever you like. |
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