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Elana Apgar
DarkMatter-Industries Upholders
2
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 01:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Anyone else notice how messed up the ship insurance program is? It seems like it's gotten worse over the past 12 months. It's as bad as a Jita Scam.
So, what's wrong with the system- not even getting into T2 or T3 ships.
For example: I just built out an augoror for a low sec roam. The hull cost around 8 million and change. For platinum insurance it's 1.1 million ISk. That pays out 3.7 million ISK. If this were based on mineral price, it should pay out roughly 8 million ISK. This is seriously broken.
I'd like to see the insurance program be based on the estimated market price (you know, the price Eve tells you something is roughly worth) of the hull. Those prices are closer to reality and would be a much better payout. You could even make it 90% of the estimated price- that would still be an improvement over the current system. Also, if you tie it to the estimated price, then that would solve the problem you have when you insure a T2 or T3.
Fixing the insurance program might also cause people to be less risk adverse and that would bring more death and destruction to New Eden. |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
923
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 01:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Insurance isn't meant to make it risk free.
I have an idea... How about making insurance based on your flying record. If you're terrible and lose many ships insurance would be expensive |

iu'ra
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
4
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 02:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Insurance isn't meant to make it risk free.
I have an idea... How about making insurance based on your flying record. If you're terrible and lose many ships insurance would be expensive
This would be the best way to do it while also taking a some what realistic approach. I'm not sure how it would be done but if you could have players control insurance that would be an interesting thing so long as the NPC insurance isn't removed |

Praxis Ginimic
Whine T3ar Brewery
801
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 10:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Insurance isn't meant to make it risk free.
I have an idea... How about making insurance based on your flying record. If you're terrible and lose many ships insurance would be expensive
As some one who is terrible, I must say that I hate your idea. I consider my ship to be the cost of undocking and buy insurance as a bonus discount... sort of like a Costco membership. |

Praxis Ginimic
Whine T3ar Brewery
801
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 10:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Elana Apgar wrote:Anyone else notice how messed up the ship insurance program is? It seems like it's gotten worse over the past 12 months. It's as bad as a Jita Scam.
So, what's wrong with the system- not even getting into T2 or T3 ships.
For example: I just built out an augoror for a low sec roam. The hull cost around 8 million and change. For platinum insurance it's 1.1 million ISk. That pays out 3.7 million ISK. If this were based on mineral price, it should pay out roughly 8 million ISK. This is seriously broken.
I'd like to see the insurance program be based on the estimated market price (you know, the price Eve tells you something is roughly worth) of the hull. Those prices are closer to reality and would be a much better payout. You could even make it 90% of the estimated price- that would still be an improvement over the current system. Also, if you tie it to the estimated price, then that would solve the problem you have when you insure a T2 or T3.
Fixing the insurance program might also cause people to be less risk adverse and that would bring more death and destruction to New Eden.
Your idea is also bad. If the insurace payout was higher than production cost (near market value, for instance) then people would just make ships, insure them and self destruct them in bulk to make isk. Bad for the economy.
|

Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2010
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 12:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |

Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
628
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 12:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Insurance isn't meant to make it risk free.
I have an idea... How about making insurance based on your flying record. If you're terrible and lose many ships insurance would be expensive
I can afford to lose a hundred ships and still fly about. I am also more likely to survive, since I've spent years in this game. Meanwhile, a new pilot will not have much isk and is also more likely to lose ships to harmless mistakes. There's a reason best insurance is given for T1 ships.
Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.
Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about. |

Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2010
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 13:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about.
in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |

Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc.
115
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 13:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
personally i think the insurence is currently this way because the extra mats arent included so coming crius im interested in how it will effect it. I havent done spreadsheet work on it so my impression might be wrong. |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1116
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 16:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Quote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about. in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly.
People would not fly T2 if the loss of a T1 matter enough for them to appreciate the insurance payout. The people most affected by insurance payout are people who would not have the money to risk T2 hulls anyway. |
|

Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2015
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 17:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Quote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about. in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly. People would not fly T2 if the loss of a T1 matter enough for them to appreciate the insurance payout. The people most affected by insurance payout are people who would not have the money to risk T2 hulls anyway. because as we all know, every single T2 hull is more expensive than every single T1 hull.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
315
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 19:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
The issue with it is the recent ship changes over the past couple years.
They changed the ships and minerals needed on lots of them. They didn't update the issurance to match the changes. It's just a big over sight on CCP's part.
Your idea could manipulate the market badly and print free isk if you had a large enough bank roll. Think of what a large alliance could pull off if your system went into effect. (( It's ugly ))
You'd be better off asking CCP to update the insurance numbers to the new ship changes in the idea and discussion forum. |

Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
628
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 19:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Quote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about. in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly.
No, insurance gets people into fleets. If there was none, you would't have a third of the fights you have today. |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2208
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 19:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
If you need insurance to get into fleets you're terrible. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
455
|
Posted - 2014.06.13 20:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
We need a meme with the progressive insurance lady for this thread. |

Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
121
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 08:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Elana Apgar wrote:I'd like to see the insurance program be based on the estimated market price (you know, the price Eve tells you something is roughly worth) of the hull. Those prices are closer to reality and would be a much better payout. You could even make it 90% of the estimated price- that would still be an improvement over the current system. Also, if you tie it to the estimated price, then that would solve the problem you have when you insure a T2 or T3.
Ship cost now: x, insurance payout 0.9x Ship price plummets to 0.5x in 2 months because more on market (Prospect anyone?). Self destruct, get paid more than the ship is worth.
How's this a good idea? |

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
283
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 10:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Elana Apgar wrote:For example: I just built out an augoror for a low sec roam. The hull cost around 8 million and change. For platinum insurance it's 1.1 million ISk. That pays out 3.7 million ISK. If this were based on mineral price, it should pay out roughly 8 million ISK. This is seriously broken. The Auguror was, until recently, a Tier 1 Cruiser. As such it cost significantly less to manufacture. The changes in Tiericide drastically increased the materials needed to build the ship and the insurance costs simply haven't caught up yet - it's also possible that the insurance calculation doesn't take the extra materials into account, but they're going away soon too. Of course the object of insurance is not to cover the cost of the ship but to make losses less painful for new players who might otherwise be crippled by them so the value should only start to get really close to market prices on T1 frigates (and perhaps destroyers).
|

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
448
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 10:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Elana Apgar wrote:I'd like to see the insurance program be based on the estimated market price (you know, the price Eve tells you something is roughly worth) of the hull. Those prices are closer to reality and would be a much better payout. You could even make it 90% of the estimated price- that would still be an improvement over the current system. Also, if you tie it to the estimated price, then that would solve the problem you have when you insure a T2 or T3. Ship cost now: x, insurance payout 0.9x Ship price plummets to 0.5x in 2 months because more on market (Prospect anyone?). Self destruct, get paid more than the ship is worth. How's this a good idea?
good for making money. Back in the days of insurance fraud this made a few jsk for some. Know I miss this sometimes...
But this was why ccp fixed this. t1 (vanilla t1 that is) is semi worth insuring, t2 and t3 has never been worth insuring (even in days of fraud they weren't). |

Shelom Severasse
Elite Kombat Academy
12
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 11:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
what about insurance (the max level, what is it, plat?) covers up to 90% of the estimated cost of ONLY the hull.
insurance costs increase proportionally at a constant rate to how often you lose ships in a month. -> every ship loss increases insurance cost by, say, 5%, and then is reset at the beginning of each month (cuz spaceshipz insurance companies are nice like that).
however, this cost increase will be capped at and additional 60%
so the numbers would look something like this: if you have a perfect flying record and your ship is worth 10m (just the hull), you insure it by purchasing 1m of insurance (not that these numbers are exact or anything, just trying to make math easy for me lol) , and soon after it is destroyed. you get a payout of 9m. now your insurance costs are increased by 5%, and you buy another 10m ship (just the hull), insure it, but now you must pay 1,050,000 isk for the same level of insurance. then you get blown up again cuz you decided to go to null and ran into a bubble camp, the payout is still 90%, so you get 9m back.
rinse wash repeat
then ccp can decide if they want a flat rate or compounding. flat would give you a cost of 1,100,000 to re-insure for your third 10m ship and compounding would give you a cost of 1,102,500 |

Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
628
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 17:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:If you need insurance to get into fleets you're terrible.
Not get into fleets. Get PEOPLE into fleets. |
|

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1117
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 17:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Quote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about. in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly. People would not fly T2 if the loss of a T1 matter enough for them to appreciate the insurance payout. The people most affected by insurance payout are people who would not have the money to risk T2 hulls anyway. because as we all know, every single T2 hull is more expensive than every single T1 hull.
Because as we all know, everybody in this game is absolutely prevented from flying whatever the hell he want just because it stings less in the wallet to lose a T1 cruiser instead of a T2 frig and there is absolutely no way for player to make a choice based on what they want. People flying cruisers are definitely all want to fly AF and inty but can't because of the insurance payout right. |

Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.06.14 23:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
I still remember what happend when insurance was paying too much for the Battlecruisers. And Battlecruiser isnt catalyst. |

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
541
|
Posted - 2014.06.15 00:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
I still think they should just dump insurance entirely.
|

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
930
|
Posted - 2014.06.15 00:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:If you need insurance to get into fleets you're terrible. Not get into fleets. Get PEOPLE into fleets. Now I know why PEOPLE don't join PVP fleets.. If Eve only had better insurance PEOPLE would form these fleets and do PVP as a group rather than solo.  |

Praxis Ginimic
Whine T3ar Brewery
805
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 21:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:If you need insurance to get into fleets you're terrible. Not get into fleets. Get PEOPLE into fleets.
Have you considered offering an SRP? It is SOP for any mod to large size pvp corp or alliance.
You don't need to be HBIC to offer it either. When I want to FC a welp fleet I just buy all the ships amd fittings myself... thats right... for the whole damn fleet.
Then I send out a corp mail letting people know that I am offering free pew for a roam and that if any one docks up with the ship we are going to laugh at them on TS for being a whimp with someone else's ship. |

Adolph Weltschmerz
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 17:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game.
Insurance is a good isk sink. It probably helps slow down inflation.
A
edit: or maybe it isnt... im suddenly unsure |

Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2014.06.18 17:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Adolph Weltschmerz wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance is a good isk sink. It probably helps slow down inflation. A edit: or maybe it isnt... im suddenly unsure It can function as an ISK faucet, actually. Only CCP knows one way or another, but I suspect it might be a faucet. |

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation
557
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 02:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Adolph Weltschmerz wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance is a good isk sink. It probably helps slow down inflation. A edit: or maybe it isnt... im suddenly unsure It can function as an ISK faucet, actually. Only CCP knows one way or another, but I suspect it might be a faucet.
It's a faucet. Whether you buy insurance or not, more ISK is injected than is removed.
|
|

CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4276

|
Posted - 2014.06.19 15:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
To the OP and the situation with the Augoror:
The reason the payout is so low is that the insurance formula doesn't take 'extra materials' in the build cost into account when figuring out the insurance value even though you have to pay for the cost of those materials in the build and market price for the ship.
In the coming Crius release we are going to be able to roll all the old extra materials back into the normal materials for all ships, which is quite a lot as we've had to use extra materials when adding build cost to any ship with rebalanced build cost in the last couple years. After awhile this will mean that insurance payouts will reflect the ship value much more accurately.
Hope that helps!
edit: I'm only like 90% sure about this so I'm going to track down someone and find out for sure @ccp_rise |
|

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1125
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 16:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adolph Weltschmerz wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance is a good isk sink. It probably helps slow down inflation. A edit: or maybe it isnt... im suddenly unsure
It's not unless a very vast majority of ships gets insured more a few time in their lifetime before getting blown up. |
|

Arronicus
X-Prot Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1066
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 19:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Adolph Weltschmerz wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance is a good isk sink. It probably helps slow down inflation. A edit: or maybe it isnt... im suddenly unsure It can function as an ISK faucet, actually. Only CCP knows one way or another, but I suspect it might be a faucet.
Insurance is by default a faucet; any uninsured ship that blows up, pays out a base insurance amount, effectively, creating isk for the pilot that loses the ship. The only time that insurance is an isk sink, is when a pilot purchases insurance, but does not lose their ship within the 2 or 3 month insurance period (It's been a while since I bothered with it given what I fly) |

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2697
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 20:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:To the OP and the situation with the Augoror:
The reason the payout is so low is that the insurance formula doesn't take 'extra materials' in the build cost into account when figuring out the insurance value even though you have to pay for the cost of those materials in the build and market price for the ship.
In the coming Crius release we are going to be able to roll all the old extra materials back into the normal materials for all ships, which is quite a lot as we've had to use extra materials when adding build cost to any ship with rebalanced build cost in the last couple years. After awhile this will mean that insurance payouts will reflect the ship value much more accurately.
Hope that helps!
edit: I'm only like 90% sure about this so I'm going to track down someone and find out for sure what is the reason for having 0 hull costs on SOE, navy BCs and mordus ships on kill reports? (affects bounty, lp payout and corp war statistics and probably even insurance) eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
942
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 21:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:CCP Rise wrote:To the OP and the situation with the Augoror:
The reason the payout is so low is that the insurance formula doesn't take 'extra materials' in the build cost into account when figuring out the insurance value even though you have to pay for the cost of those materials in the build and market price for the ship.
In the coming Crius release we are going to be able to roll all the old extra materials back into the normal materials for all ships, which is quite a lot as we've had to use extra materials when adding build cost to any ship with rebalanced build cost in the last couple years. After awhile this will mean that insurance payouts will reflect the ship value much more accurately.
Hope that helps!
edit: I'm only like 90% sure about this so I'm going to track down someone and find out for sure what is the reason for having 0 hull costs on SOE, navy BCs and mordus ships on kill reports? (affects bounty, lp payout and corp war statistics and probably even insurance)
Who gets insurance on a faction ship? It's based on mineral cost so what like 100 mill back for your billion plus ISK battleship? |

Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
313
|
Posted - 2014.06.19 22:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Bienator II wrote:CCP Rise wrote:To the OP and the situation with the Augoror:
The reason the payout is so low is that the insurance formula doesn't take 'extra materials' in the build cost into account when figuring out the insurance value even though you have to pay for the cost of those materials in the build and market price for the ship.
In the coming Crius release we are going to be able to roll all the old extra materials back into the normal materials for all ships, which is quite a lot as we've had to use extra materials when adding build cost to any ship with rebalanced build cost in the last couple years. After awhile this will mean that insurance payouts will reflect the ship value much more accurately.
Hope that helps!
edit: I'm only like 90% sure about this so I'm going to track down someone and find out for sure what is the reason for having 0 hull costs on SOE, navy BCs and mordus ships on kill reports? (affects bounty, lp payout and corp war statistics and probably even insurance) Who gets insurance on a faction ship?  It's based on mineral cost so what like 100 mill back for your billion plus ISK battleship?
Why would you not, assuming you plan to be taking risks with your ship and you're not in something like a T1 frigate where the payout literally isn't worth the effort of clicking a few buttons? Money is money, and 100 mil isn't nothing even if it's not a new Machariel. |

Dally Lama
Republic University Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 08:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Quote:Daniel Plain wrote:i have a better idea: remove insurance from the game. Insurance pays off for T1 ships, making them relatively cheap to fly compared to more expensive options - this means they're not completely obsolete even when the pilot can fly others ships about. in other words, insurance prevents people from flying the ships they would prefer to fly. People would not fly T2 if the loss of a T1 matter enough for them to appreciate the insurance payout. The people most affected by insurance payout are people who would not have the money to risk T2 hulls anyway. because as we all know, every single T2 hull is more expensive than every single T1 hull. That is a very stupid response. So much so, I have gone and unliked your initial reply.  New Fitting Window | Exact Distances Above 10km | Remove all inactive contacts |

Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2023
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 13:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:[quote=Frostys Virpio][...] because as we all know, every single T2 hull is more expensive than every single T1 hull. That is a very stupid response. So much so, I have gone and unliked your initial reply.  i am shattered.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
565
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 13:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:To the OP and the situation with the Augoror:
The reason the payout is so low is that the insurance formula doesn't take 'extra materials' in the build cost into account when figuring out the insurance value even though you have to pay for the cost of those materials in the build and market price for the ship.
In the coming Crius release we are going to be able to roll all the old extra materials back into the normal materials for all ships, which is quite a lot as we've had to use extra materials when adding build cost to any ship with rebalanced build cost in the last couple years. After awhile this will mean that insurance payouts will reflect the ship value much more accurately.
Hope that helps!
edit: I'm only like 90% sure about this so I'm going to track down someone and find out for sure
Why does CCP insist on insurance in the first place? It doesn't promote PvP and it injects ISK into an economy that doesn't need it.
|

Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
240
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 14:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Who gets insurance on a faction ship?  It's based on mineral cost so what like 100 mill back for your billion plus ISK battleship?
If you are losing such sums every little bit helps on getting back to your feet. I spent yesterday around 15 mil insuring a Broadsword. When it dies I will get back about 47 mil. Which is approx 1/6th of the cost of the setup.
Pity the insurance does not take into account the rigs fitted.
And while I'm at it could I perhaps get an opportunity to insure my pod. At my age damn thing costs me 40 mil / pop before any hardware I'm putting in it so I'm feeling a bit stupid when flying interceptors / destroyers / bombers on my main. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |

Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
240
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 14:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:[quote=CCP Rise]
Why does CCP insist on insurance in the first place? It doesn't promote PvP and it injects ISK into an economy that doesn't need it.
It takes off some the edge from losing the ship for the younger players. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |

Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2014.06.20 14:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:CCP Rise wrote:To the OP and the situation with the Augoror:
The reason the payout is so low is that the insurance formula doesn't take 'extra materials' in the build cost into account when figuring out the insurance value even though you have to pay for the cost of those materials in the build and market price for the ship.
In the coming Crius release we are going to be able to roll all the old extra materials back into the normal materials for all ships, which is quite a lot as we've had to use extra materials when adding build cost to any ship with rebalanced build cost in the last couple years. After awhile this will mean that insurance payouts will reflect the ship value much more accurately.
Hope that helps!
edit: I'm only like 90% sure about this so I'm going to track down someone and find out for sure Why does CCP insist on insurance in the first place? It doesn't promote PvP and it injects ISK into an economy that doesn't need it. How does it not promote PVP? I can take a T1 ship into PVP and fit it cheaply and confidently know I will get (what is it currently, half?) the hull cost back and only having lost ~20M additional in mods. |
|

Krazie Hanaya
Benevolent Buccaneers
5
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 05:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
On a somewhat related note (and somewhat unrelated) I must ask:
1) Why is a ship like the Gnosis (which has such retardedly low requirements to fly) insured for pennies when a ship of the same class (battlecruiser) at any tier is insured for millions?
2) Why is a ship like the most exclusive Leopard not even truly insurable? Those things are worth a good load and you can't even get double digit ISK insurance on it... |

Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
401
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 06:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Krazie Hanaya wrote:On a somewhat related note (and somewhat unrelated) I must ask:
1) Why is a ship like the Gnosis (which has such retardedly low requirements to fly) insured for pennies when a ship of the same class (battlecruiser) at any tier is insured for millions?
2) Why is a ship like the most exclusive Leopard not even truly insurable? Those things are worth a good load and you can't even get double digit ISK insurance on it...
Everything's based on mineral requirements of construction.
The Gnosis is made by BPC's and uses 1 Tritanium to build. It's insured for that amount.
The Leopard can't even be made, but it has a base mineral cost of close to 2500 Tritanium, so it gets insured for that much.
So yeah, you're getting a payout based on how much it costs to construct. Working as intended. |

afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
170
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 07:06:00 -
[43] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Because as we all know, everybody in this game is absolutely prevented from flying whatever the hell he want just because it stings less in the wallet to lose a T1 cruiser instead of a T2 frig and there is absolutely no way for player to make a choice based on what they want. People flying cruisers are definitely all want to fly AF and inty but can't because of the insurance payout right.
No-one is "prevented", but consider what's the #1 point in eve any time something blows ups?
"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose"
Insurance lowers that bar for people. Simple as that.
SRPs are great though, but not everyone can take those hits so the insurance helps a bit again. |

Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 04:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Insurance exists to encourage people to risk PVP (or it they really suck at combat PVE). Effectively they are not risking 100% of ship value.
But CCP should reconsider. Insurance is a very timid incentive that hangs around long after player either learn to take PVP risks or FAIL to learn.
I say Drop insurance.
Instead
1) POSITIVE incentive give extra rewards to players for their first few ship kills. Maybe Everything drops on first frigate kill then drop rate tapers off rapidly to the normal 50% odds. Perhaps the same for each faction of frigate and for T2 and T3. Heh if multiple toons are on killmail then average their bonus drops or even make it run off lowest drop rate of all on KM.
2) Negative incentive One of the chief signs of CAREBEAR disease is amassing huge fleets of personal ships which are never used for combat or powerful ships that never get risked. The simple answer is to make old ships too expensive to keep.
Quote:Ships should die young and leave a beautiful wreck
So CCP should also implement ship AGING where after 10 days players start finding increasing wear damage after each logon or docking or approach near any refitting maintenance (for the POS/depot people who with other player's assistance never dock). Also the cost or effort for repairs themselves battle damage or aging increase exponentially as ships age.
At a certain point players with high age cost will find good reason to make brave stands against the odds or attack things far above their weight class.
Negative incentive will force PVP and really make people reconsider low sec and null sec.
PS this will also greatly reduce CCP operational database costs and even speed server responsiveness as the number of idle ship hulls plummets.
3) Maybe think about agents that give PVP kill missions (maybe free location and some NPC Logi ships to appear after firing starts). |

Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 04:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ship aging vs insurance...
Since ship age clocks would need to be preserved across repackaging to prevent exploits such ship would only be sold on contract -- meaning used ship salesmen will join the ranks of EVE scam artists. I even suggest skills to turn back ship "odometers" and test flight contracts with collateral. Capital ships should of course have somewhat slower and longer initial age clocks due to assembly time but not greatly so (double at max).
Perhaps even null sec blob battles will become more strategic as it becomes very expensive to maintain maximum sized standing battle groups. Instead first actually planning where, when, and why will be less accidental as logistics and positioning of capital ship parts prior to final assembly will be very important. Even strategies for picking which people will stay behind to prepare sustaining and reinforcing forces - versus sending everyone in sight to man ships from a huge collection of ships. |

Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 04:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
CODE and every pirate or merc should support ship aging as obviously aged ships will sell much cheaper but for one day ops or suicide ganks be just as capable in battle.
Hmmm...why even allow repackaging of ship hulls? Say that assembly permanently fuses them together in one configuration. Instead add Fleet Ship Transporters class similar to Freighters but specializing in hauling assembled ships. Maybe even different makes based on ship class transported.
Udonor wrote:Insurance exists to encourage people to risk PVP (or it they really suck at combat PVE). Effectively they are not risking 100% of ship value. But CCP should reconsider. Insurance is a very timid incentive that hangs around long after player either learn to take PVP risks or FAIL to learn. I say Drop insurance. Instead 1) POSITIVE incentive give extra rewards to players for their first few ship kills. Maybe Everything drops on first frigate kill then drop rate tapers off rapidly to the normal 50% odds. Perhaps the same for each faction of frigate and for T2 and T3. Heh if multiple toons are on killmail then average their bonus drops or even make it run off lowest drop rate of all on KM. 2) Negative incentive One of the chief signs of CAREBEAR disease is amassing huge fleets of personal ships which are never used for combat or powerful ships that never get risked. The simple answer is to make old ships too expensive to keep. Quote:Ships should die young and leave a beautiful wreck So CCP should also implement ship AGING where after 10 days players start finding increasing wear damage after each logon or docking or approach near any refitting maintenance (for the POS/depot people who with other player's assistance never dock). Also the cost or effort for repairs themselves battle damage or aging increase exponentially as ships age. At a certain point players with high age cost will find good reason to make brave stands against the odds or attack things far above their weight class. Negative incentive will force PVP and really make people reconsider low sec and null sec. PS this will also greatly reduce CCP operational database costs and even speed server responsiveness as the number of idle ship hulls plummets. 3) Maybe think about agents that give PVP kill missions (maybe free location and some NPC Logi ships to appear after firing starts).
|

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
952
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 16:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Krazie Hanaya wrote:On a somewhat related note (and somewhat unrelated) I must ask:
1) Why is a ship like the Gnosis (which has such retardedly low requirements to fly) insured for pennies when a ship of the same class (battlecruiser) at any tier is insured for millions?
2) Why is a ship like the most exclusive Leopard not even truly insurable? Those things are worth a good load and you can't even get double digit ISK insurance on it...
I can't speak for the Gnosis but the Leopard is a shuttle. Insurance is based on mineral costs so it insures like a shuttle |

CompleteFailure
Killian Industries
167
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 23:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Why does CCP insist on insurance in the first place?
They don't, they simply made it available for you to use if you wish. |

Captain Davy
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.07 15:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
This insurance "problem" is still not "fixed" in singularity.
My understanding is that it should be automaticly fixed once the extra materials are gone. There is any word on that? |

Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2056
|
Posted - 2014.07.09 15:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Val'Dore wrote:[quote=CCP Rise]
Why does CCP insist on insurance in the first place? It doesn't promote PvP and it injects ISK into an economy that doesn't need it. It takes off some the edge from losing the ship for the younger players. if only the younger players could instead fly a smaller and cheaper ship, but alas that would require more training time... oh, wait.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1006
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 16:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Carniflex wrote:Val'Dore wrote:[quote=CCP Rise]
Why does CCP insist on insurance in the first place? It doesn't promote PvP and it injects ISK into an economy that doesn't need it. It takes off some the edge from losing the ship for the younger players. if only the younger players could instead fly a smaller and cheaper ship, but alas that would require more training time... oh, wait. So you mean it's not smart to fly a battleship in lowsec with my two week old pilot?  |

stoicfaux
5078
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 17:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:To the OP and the situation with the Augoror:
The reason the payout is so low is that the insurance formula doesn't take 'extra materials' in the build cost into account when figuring out the insurance value even though you have to pay for the cost of those materials in the build and market price for the ship.
In the coming Crius release we are going to be able to roll all the old extra materials back into the normal materials for all ships, which is quite a lot as we've had to use extra materials when adding build cost to any ship with rebalanced build cost in the last couple years. After awhile this will mean that insurance payouts will reflect the ship value much more accurately.
Hope that helps!
edit: I'm only like 90% sure about this so I'm going to track down someone and find out for sure So all those mining ships that were built and stockpiled before their costs went up due to extra materials being added (to prevent insurance fraud) due to the mining ship rebalance, and which are now selling below current build costs due to being stockpiled....
Two words: Insurance Fraud is back, baby!
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1006
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 18:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Wow some terrible ideas in this thread (Just my opinion)
Insurance should be to help poor new pilots recover from unexpected losses. I'm flying my Vexor and it goes pop awesome insurance helped me get a new one.
If you're flying T2 ships you're not a noob anymore. If you can't afford to replace it don't fly it. Eve is about choices and the painful sting of failure. We don't need to make insurance where it removes that. |

Baron' Soontir Fel
Justified Chaos
202
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 15:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
Because when I lose 500mil or more in ships every month, getting 100mil back is extremely helpful. |
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