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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
293
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Posted - 2011.11.19 09:31:00 -
[91] - Quote
This is something I wished for for quite awhile. Not that long though, 8 years or so. It is something awesome!
As someone else remarked in the test server thread, don't we get updates for all the guys in our watchlist? Couldn't those be used by the client allready? Or is this not the case?
What about all the guys who we got targeted?
And what about a "smart" feature that looks at what ships are on your screen itself and renders their hits. (Don't let the programmers and team gridlock kill me)
Anyway, excellent job and carry on! - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
NorthCrossroad
EVE University Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2011.11.19 11:39:00 -
[92] - Quote
Great stuff guys, really enjoyable to see it on Sisi.
Couple suggestions: 1. "Shots which miss are picking a point to aim at based on the bounding sphere of the target which means misses might look a little too regular and vary quite a lot". To enhance the visual effects of this, you can still use the sphere radius but add a little random fluctuation in range of -10% to +10% each time. It doesn't require anything big in math, and in this way misses won't look that regular even when calculated close by. 2. +1 for the misses for a ship you're looking at. Might be really great :) It doesn't add much lag and definitely adds immersion effect. 3. Don't think that adding miss calculation to a small fights (<10) is a good idea because small fights can easily become big ones, and then it might be an additional level of problems when moving from "all-calculated" to "only for you". 4. Having miss effects for watchlist and your target list is nice, but it will definitely add network load and maybe some server load (guess it depends on how propagation of hits for watchlist and targets works).
And one last note - don't you think that missiles become more and more of a "dead child" in sence of UI representation? They don't have turrets visible, they don't have miss calculation. I really think that they need a close look!
But anyway, thanks a lot for the feature again.
North
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Kadazer
Quantum Equilibrium
0
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Posted - 2011.11.19 12:14:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Choloepus wrote:Yup! This involves an artist making some nice impact effects, but otherwise shouldn't be too hard. We've also been discussing having a few more effects for when a shot punches through the last of your shield/armour and starts chewing away at the next layer of tank. This would need a bit of hysteresis built in to avoid it looking silly under reps.
All optional of course, as this kind of stuff would definitely add a small performance hit unless we can claw some frame time back elsewhere.
Unfortunately, it's a lot easier to think up pretty new things to do with this feature than it is to get everything done. Nevertheless it's much better to have a full backlog than the alternative!
That would give realism a great boost. I would suggest energy discharges for shield hits, spreading armor plate particles for armor hits and for hull hits the shots should go through the ship hull and exit on the other side or cause explosion inside the ship. |
DeLaBu
FireStar Inc Curatores Veritatis Alliance
10
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Posted - 2011.11.19 13:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
This is going to be quite helpful for turret users and ships that rely on not being hit to survive. Thank you CCP.
On a side note, I don't think you should simulate hits and misses for the rest of the fleet unless you can simulate it close to 100% on the client side.
You will get petitions like this and you will have to explain the whole bloody thing every time: I was not paying attention, but my buddy clearly saw the Tempest's arty volley miss me, yet I still exploded. I want my ISKs back NOW! |
Xavier Quo
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2011.11.19 14:27:00 -
[95] - Quote
this is brilliant and wonderful and amazing, but I have to disagree with this statement
Quote:We could make any shots which do not involve your ship miss or hit on the flip of a coin, but if it's completely random this conveys no information. Worse, it pretends to be useful whilst actually providing misinformation, so we're not keen on that.
both current and suggested situations (fleet random hit/miss or always hit) are as visually tactically useless as the other, but one looks a lot better. People do not look at what is going on graphically now anyway, they use targetting, scanner or comms info to check the actual state of play.
I would definitely like a few tweaks like this on sisi over the next few months to see if it is popular or not. It could easily be a client side option to toggle random hits? |
Imrik86
Gypsy Kings Wiki Conglomerates
18
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Posted - 2011.11.19 16:09:00 -
[96] - Quote
That's one nice feature. Looking forward to see it extended for everybody in a fleet flight, it will look epic.
Now, CCP Choloepus, about missiles:
Given missiles never miss, but you have the explosion velocity stuff, it would be cool if the missile exploded a little "earlier", how far behind depending on explosion velocity and current target velocity. This would give the impression the target was able to outrun the explosion. |
Jonathan Malcom
Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Please don't never ever make any sort of guesstimation on whether a shot should be drawn as a hit or miss. If it ever becomes possible to draw others' shots accurately, I'm all for it, but don't make the client lie to us. I'd rather have all shots visually connect and know that they might or might not have missed, than to have some hits and some misses (even if in the right proportions), but have the target actually take damage when the shot visually misses. Providing no information is always better than providing false information.
I don't care about the ratio of hit/miss. I'm not going to stare at someone for a few minutes, watching him get shot at, to determine that approximately 60% of those shots actually mised. I want to see that the last three shots from the enemy battleship landed on the friendly interceptor, and he will most likely need repairs NOW.
You should either have him watch-listed (unlikely, with an interceptor) or be looking for broadcasts in your fleet window.
This is literally window-dressing. No one should be relying on actually watching a fight for reliable information. You have all the tools to get the information you need.
If they want to estimate incoming fire to make fights look more interesting, more power to them.
Consider: How is showing all shots hitting any more an inaccurate representation than having random shots miss based on the class of ships engaging eachother? |
Mjana
Switzerland EVE Corp.
1
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Posted - 2011.11.19 17:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:The individual shots themselves don't arc, but the burst "appears" to arc across the sky as the gun is tracking the target. Yes, that's the situation right now on TQ afaik.
So the solution for artillery would be to have the shot-animation not "anchored" between the shooter and the target (and moving with them) but between a fixed position in space where the gun was when it fired and a fixed position in space where the target will be 0.3sec later when the shot hits (or misses).
For lasers, nothing changes, since light hits the target within the same millisecond anyways.
For hybrids, I'm not entirely sure: I guess blasters would work like projectiles. Railguns however send out a short stream of plasma afaik, so that while the stream is leaving the gun, there would have to be a number of animations for each "particle" in the stream, starting from where the gun was when it fired that part of the stream and hitting where the target will be when that particle hits the target. Same with the auto cannons, as mentioned by Nova Fox:
Nova Fox wrote:Either way the shot arcs for auto cannons are not a phsyics thing is an accuracy thing you're leading your target so your entire volley winds up in the target instead of the first few bullets as the rest of the stream flys by. (now I got what you meant, Nova Fox. I was thinking of artillery shots and completely forgot that autocannons shoot a burst of projectiles, not just one) |
Dietz0r Saraki
Panzerwaschanlage
0
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Posted - 2011.11.19 20:58:00 -
[99] - Quote
Mjana wrote: I guess blasters would work like projectiles. Railguns however send out a short stream of plasma afaik, so that while the stream is leaving the gun, there would have to be a number of animations for each "particle" in the stream, starting from where the gun was when it fired that part of the stream and hitting where the target will be when that particle hits the target.
It's the other way round. Rails shoot the whole cannister at someone, blasters do that plasma thingie |
Phobos Vortex
Todespropheten T0DESPR0PHETEN
2
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:00:00 -
[100] - Quote
I really could live with random hit/miss display on other ships. When you KNOW that the visuals on other ships provide no information the only difference between no hit/miss and random hit/miss is that the random thing looks better. False information equals no information when you know that it is false. How about trying to get real information for the hit/miss animation for ships in your watchlist/fleet and random for all the rest? Would even that cause too much traffic? |
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Rawls Canardly
Phoenix Confederation
2
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Posted - 2011.11.19 23:08:00 -
[101] - Quote
Well, easiest way I can think of to fix this, so other people can see... the client knows when the shots should render. The client also knows when damage is rendered. If damage is below threshold of full damage, by estimate based on scale of craft involved, whatever percentage below that threshold,render a miss.all handled client side. If more than ten ships are fighting in vicinity, misses are not rendered. No extra server lag. an option to turn it off altogether would be nice for weaker systems...o |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
13
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Posted - 2011.11.20 07:07:00 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Choloepus wrote: ... Unfortunately, it's a lot easier to think up pretty new things to do with this feature than it is to get everything done. ...
If you have the idea, and you know that you can do, it is just a matter of time to see it completed! This means that everyday your work is more amazing, as long you like what you do! |
Evenus Battuta
11
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Posted - 2011.11.20 10:03:00 -
[103] - Quote
Can you also make grouped weapons do not hit on a single point? |
Evenus Battuta
11
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Posted - 2011.11.20 10:22:00 -
[104] - Quote
Since the bottleneck of bandwidth is totally on server side, maybe you can try some P2P structure to exchange trival messages only about graphical performance, in this case, hit/miss messages.
The load is huge for the server to boardcast hit/miss messages to everyone, but it's hardly a problem for client to recevie them, so maybe you can leave the distribution job totally between clients, server only need to boardcast list of IP address and socket number involved. |
Malcom Dax
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.11.20 10:26:00 -
[105] - Quote
Evenus Battuta wrote:Since the bottleneck of bandwidth is totally on server side, maybe you can try some P2P structure to exchange trivial messages only about graphical performance, in this case, hit/miss messages.
The load is huge for the server to boardcast hit/miss messages to everyone, but it's hardly a problem for client to recevie them, so maybe you can leave the distribution job totally between clients, server only need to boardcast list of IP address and socket number involved.
Call me paranoid, but I don't really want CCP to be telling everyone my IP address. Blacklight Incorporated: Recruiting now for PvP and Industry. |
Evenus Battuta
11
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Posted - 2011.11.20 10:36:00 -
[106] - Quote
Malcom Dax wrote:
Call me paranoid, but I don't really want CCP to be telling everyone my IP address.
Others can know as much as IP address of Malcom Dax, but no one knows that is YOU. |
Malcom Dax
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.11.20 10:54:00 -
[107] - Quote
That's true. I'd not really differentiated between me and my character. I think I've played eve for too long Blacklight Incorporated: Recruiting now for PvP and Industry. |
ilmon
Unknown Soldiers RED.Legion
12
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Posted - 2011.11.20 12:25:00 -
[108] - Quote
a very nice addition to the game this will make for a better experience had by all |
FlameGlow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2011.11.20 14:34:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ok, so now turrets look even more awesome, but missiles are still lightball shooting out of ship's ass? Damn, when is the time for missile love? |
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2011.11.20 19:12:00 -
[110] - Quote
CCP, are you starting to get metaphysical on me? Is this the start of "collateral damage" in EVE? Will missed shots connect to unintended targets and wil that cause aggro? No more spherical firing squads? No more unorganized blobs? Will we have to actually adopt "real life" tactics so as not to kill our own with random shots? If so, kudos. |
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De'Vadder
Dissonance Corp BLACK-MARK
0
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Posted - 2011.11.20 21:01:00 -
[111] - Quote
Seismic Stan wrote:
Is there any possibility that the feature could be amended to provide inaccurate fire animation for whichever ship is the focus of the camera (and the target thereof)? This wouldn't generate any additional traffic, but would just shift the focus to allow convincing spectator immersion.
THIS! |
millsy4606
Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD
0
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Posted - 2011.11.21 12:12:00 -
[112] - Quote
bit confused by this, so in lamens terms, when i shoot my auto cannons at a ship and i miss, instead of visualising that it actually hits the ship, it pings all round it??
so its a visual thing not something that happens freakily for no reason, just missing shots for the hell of it for example.
also like the idea of seing some individual damage, like the structure fire, maybe some visualisations of half shield, half armor etc, that would make my pee pee hard. |
Karma
Vortex Incorporated
3
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Posted - 2011.11.21 16:48:00 -
[113] - Quote
one way to simulate (or emulate?) the hit/miss ratios of the other people in a fleet fight would be:
once a minute (seldom enough that it doesn't affect the server's performance, is what I'm saying) the average hit ratio is calculated... and shared...
so instead of: skills, relative velocity, hull bonuses, signature radius/resolution, turret type, ammunition/lenses, tracking enhancers/computers, tracking links, tracking scripts, rigs, implants, boosters, target painters, wormhole environmental effects... you get the idea
you'd have: Hits / Shots Fired = Hit %
I wont pretend to know how you'd go about with the sharing of it to the fleet, obviously... so it might be impossible.
but it would be informative enough. if you were paying attention to it, you could tell who in the fleet is a lousy shot... and guide them to get better. Everyone vs. Everyone Online
"The universe is made of stories, not atoms" |
Carfexus Ravenloff
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.11.21 19:05:00 -
[114] - Quote
So I take it, judging from the example screenshot, that ship trails are going back in? |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
2
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Posted - 2011.11.23 00:48:00 -
[115] - Quote
What a long, strange trip it's been....
So, now that we have this, when do we get LoS combat? |
SwissChris1
Battlestars S E D I T I O N
1
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Posted - 2011.11.24 13:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
This is so awesome! I have been dreaming about this since I saw Clear Skies 3 |
Akiriy Azuriko
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.28 14:09:00 -
[117] - Quote
MISSILES RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
YOUR SO HALF ASSES CCP COMMON ! |
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