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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
902

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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Choloepus has been working on a truly immersion enhancing feature and he'd like to tell you about it.
Read all about it here, and make sure to leave your feedback and questions for us. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |
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Hylax Ciai
Sensus Numinis Ev0ke
5
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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good stuff  |

Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?
I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it... and server must be the one deciding what hits and what misses (if it weren't, EVE would already be hacked to bits) so... there must be a steady flow of packets during fleet fights to every participant about every shot being fired on grid as it happens according to the server simulation.
We. Are. Talking. About. A. Single. Bit.
0/1. Miss/Hit. The rest can be made up by the local (client side) rendering code.
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Ariane VoxDei
16
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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:CCP Choloepus has been working on a truly immersion enhancing feature and he'd like to tell you about it. Read all about it here, and make sure to leave your feedback and questions for us. Almost like the good old days in 2006, its like meeting a old friend :) Now wtb the same old engine trails. They were 'im going thi----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------s fast'. Or is that yet to be finalized? |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
902

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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ariane VoxDei wrote:CCP Guard wrote:CCP Choloepus has been working on a truly immersion enhancing feature and he'd like to tell you about it. Read all about it here, and make sure to leave your feedback and questions for us. Almost like the good old days in 2006, its like meeting a old friend :) Now wtb the same old engine trails. They were 'im going thi----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------s fast'. Or is that yet to be finalized?
There will be a dev blog on trails next week! :) CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
9
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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
why do missiles hit when i tracking disrupt? BUG |

Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
493
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 14:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?
I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it... and server must be the one deciding what hits and what misses (if it weren't, EVE would already be hacked to bits) so... there must be a steady flow of packets during fleet fights to every participant about every shot being fired on grid as it happens according to the server simulation.
We. Are. Talking. About. A. Single. Bit. Some Pro coding will embed it nicely into the current data (just steal one bit off some value that is being sent about each shot and use it for this), so the added amount of data would be zero.
0/1. Miss/Hit. The rest can be made up by the local (client side) rendering code. It's not just a single bit... You are mistaken in your assumption that the client receives information about every shot, rather than just when it starts/stops and the rate of fire. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |

Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?
I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it... and server must be the one deciding what hits and what misses (if it weren't, EVE would already be hacked to bits) so... there must be a steady flow of packets during fleet fights to every participant about every shot being fired on grid as it happens according to the server simulation.
We. Are. Talking. About. A. Single. Bit. Some Pro coding will embed it nicely into the current data (just steal one bit off some value that is being sent about each shot and use it for this), so the added amount of data would be zero.
0/1. Miss/Hit. The rest can be made up by the local (client side) rendering code. It's not just a single bit... You are mistaken in your assumption that the client receives information about every shot, rather than just when it starts/stops and the rate of fire.
Ah, that would make sense... Didn't think of that. |

Yankunytjatjara
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
11
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
GREAT!
Now add a hole on the ship whenever the shields are passed and we are complete :D |

Ariane VoxDei
16
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
nvm dumb answer, in all the excitement i forgot to read properly |

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
9
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Ariane VoxDei wrote:CCP Guard wrote:CCP Choloepus has been working on a truly immersion enhancing feature and he'd like to tell you about it. Read all about it here, and make sure to leave your feedback and questions for us. Almost like the good old days in 2006, its like meeting a old friend :) Now wtb the same old engine trails. They were 'im going thi----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------s fast'. Or is that yet to be finalized? There will be a dev blog on trails next week! :)
The biking trail to the volcano that's exploding all the time? |

Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
10
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
nice feature |

Iosue
UV Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
22
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
oooooohhh, pretty lights!! |
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CCP Choloepus
C C P C C P Alliance
35

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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?
I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it...
It's actually more like the client gets information when someone else starts to fire, and when they stop, but nothing inbetween. Individual damage or hit information packets aren't sent to you unless you're directly involved, your client just renders the pew-pew every few seconds until the other guy stops shooting.
It's not the single bit added to the payload that's the problem, it's that currently we don't send a packet at all unless absolutely necessary. |
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
116
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
First page!
This is one of the best new features of this expansion (though its damn hard to choose!)! |

Tork Norand
Mechanical Eagles Inc. The Ancients.
1
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
As a method of showing other ships in the fleet getting hit (or not), here's an idea....
10 seconds after a fight starts, and every 10 seconds after that, calculate how many shots that are fired actually hit. This will give a Hit Ratio.
Send the Hit Ratio out to the clients every 10 seconds or so, and let the clients randomly show that number of targets getting hit.
Each fleet gets its own Hit Ratio sent out....and the client does the work of just randomly picking members of that fleet to show the hits on. If you want finer detail, break it down by a weight on which target: Total: 25% are hitting...of that: -- Foe1: 10% (2.5% total) -- Foe2: 20% (5% total) -- Foe3: 70% (17.5% total....must be a logi pilot)
Then, as the client figures out that a gun was fired, it also knows the weighted chance that it has hit which target.
Technically speaking, this should fit into just one or two packets of data very easily.
--Tork. CEO and Herder of Cats. |

Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 15:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Could just make the other shots appear spread before hitting targets, some of the shot hits, other part misses?
More difficult with lasers I suppose but there's a solution waiting out there 
Looks great on SISI now btw. |

darius mclever
19
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Choloepus wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?
I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it... It's actually more like the client gets information when someone else starts to fire, and when they stop, but nothing inbetween. Individual damage or hit information packets aren't sent to you unless you're directly involved, your client just renders the pew-pew every few seconds until the other guy stops shooting. It's not the single bit added to the payload that's the problem, it's that currently we don't send a packet at all unless absolutely necessary. edit: beaten, thanks Rakshasa Taisab
how does this affect the client performance when you get primaried in a fleet fight? |

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
255
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thank you CCP, this change was a long time coming and clearly complex to fully implement, I hope you keep in on the front burner in the future. As someone who compared Eve to Donkey Kong (imagine if the barrels always looked like they hit you), I am quite happy about the change.
I for one wouldn't mind a 1/2 second delay as to graphical misses of not me, meaning if I am part of a fight and a ship shoots at my fleet mate, I don't mind missing that visual notification for 1/2 second to get it right. Just a quick thought.
best, AG Repair Drones should be able to repair anyone ... really, they should. -áThink of them as the first targetable subsystem if you're worried about PvP and for missions if someone wants Rep drones over a flight of Hobs, who cares. -áThere is no reasonable objection here other than it's always been that way (so was RR until recently). |

Daedalus II
The Older Gamers
66
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
This gets me to think about the often requested using ray casting to calculate shots fired (ie you could hit something else between you and your target) which would give a much more strategic game when it comes to fleet position and such.
However, as hard as it will be on the server to calculate all that ray casting, that isn't the main problem. The main problem is that every single shot on the grid would have to be transferred to every client for it to look good. That's just crazy. |

Louis deGuerre
Malevolence. Void Alliance
63
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 15:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
squa-+mous adj \-êskw-ü-m+Ös also -êskw+ñ-\
Definition of SQUAMOUS
1 a : covered with or consisting of scales : scaly b : of, relating to, or being a stratified epithelium that consists at least in its outer layers of small scalelike cells 2 : of, relating to, or being the anterior upper portion of the temporal bone of most mammals including humans
Origin of SQUAMOUS
Middle English, from Latin squamosus, from squama scale First Known Use: 15th century Related to SQUAMOUS
Synonyms: scaled, scaly Antonyms: scaleless
Gameplay quality : Enhanced Language Vocabulary : Increased
Devblog approved !  FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! |

TheButcherPete
StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound.
23
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
How does one pronounce Choloepus?
Otherwise, I like this new feature, it's fun watching Serpentis miss 
GÖÑ CCP /me snugglehump you long time GÖÑ
~ I AM PETEBBA |

Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders MPA
30
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Give someone a piece of bread and they want butter with it. Give them a sandwich and they ask for roast chicken...
As you posted, this is a great first step, all limitations considered. Your compromises are well thought out and the reasoning behind them is very sound. I look forward to seeing this.
Thanks for more awesome pew pew eye candy! I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it. |

Seismic Stan
Greenbeard's Freebooters Split Infinity.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
I love this feature, it's quite possibly my favourite element of Crucible.
I don't want to sound negative or ungrateful, but I was a little disappointed to read that my client will only render missed shots at or from my ship. I was looking forward to observing some spectacular dogfights between third parties.
Is there any possibility that the feature could be amended to provide inaccurate fire animation for whichever ship is the focus of the camera (and the target thereof)? This wouldn't generate any additional traffic, but would just shift the focus to allow convincing spectator immersion.
Writer of 'Freebooted' blog. Author of 'Incarna: The Text Adventure'. Co-Creator of 'Tech4 News' podcast.
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
23
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
/me huggles CCP I love you guys again, so much epic material this winter
I really hope to see other players shots missing on day as well, it would really make fleet fights look epic. I don't like the idea of guesswork, but I don't like the current situation (for others, new content is awesome), and I don't like the idea of so much information being passed that it creates lag. Kinda a catch-22, but I agree with the blog, I think "rough simulation of appx miss chance" (i.e. intelligent guesswork) is probably the way to go. Take everything known by the client, average everything else (say assume level 3 or 4 skills, give a 10% chance for using an implant/booster that would affect it, etc), and then decide if it's hit or miss.
Another semi-related issue I'd love to see addressed. Can we please (one day) get shots that hit in a wider variety of places on the model? In othe words, do this, take a bunch of laser abaddons or something out and start shooting a POS. watch ALL the lasers hit either one of the little arms on the side or the bottom part about 3/4ths of the way down. It really looks un-realistic. It's not something you notice as much on ships or in fleet fights, but it's there. It would be great if you really peppered the enemy in a bunch of different places as your shots hit.
Thanks again -BBK |

Nanohasan
Tribes of Concordia
0
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Really nice update. Once you guys manage to extend it to any ship for a client, you could make those "stray shots" into hitting other targets then the orginal one like what could happen in a real space combat.
Of course it in the hope you won't get shot into the sun like you seem to fear atm  |
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CCP Choloepus
C C P C C P Alliance
37

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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Seismic Stan wrote:I love this feature, it's quite possibly my favourite element of Crucible.
I don't want to sound negative or ungrateful, but I was a little disappointed to read that my client will only render missed shots at or from my ship. I was looking forward to observing some spectacular dogfights between third parties.
Is there any possibility that the feature could be amended to provide inaccurate fire animation for whichever ship is the focus of the camera (and the target thereof)? This wouldn't generate any additional traffic, but would just shift the focus to allow convincing spectator immersion.
Thanks, and believe me that we're disappointed that we can't do this yet either!
The look-at suggestion is a great one however. It limits the amount of extra information sent whilst still allowing you to spectate on those dogfights properly, I'll have to bring this one along to Gridlock and see what can be done.
Plus, even if we get the client-side simulation working, it would gives us a properly accurate option for important targets layered on top. |
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Tahna Rouspel
BWE Special Forces Rage Alliance
15
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nanohasan wrote:Really nice update. Once you guys manage to extend it to any ship for a client, you could make those "stray shots" into hitting other targets then the orginal one like what could happen in a real space combat. Of course it in the hope you won't get shot into the sun like you seem to fear atm 
I don't think that would happen without the servers blowing up. |

Damion Rayne
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
17
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Posted - 2011.11.18 15:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Would it really add that much to include a single bit (hit/miss) to the information your client receives about shots around you that are not directed at you?
I mean, the client must already receive information about all the gunfire because it can render it... and server must be the one deciding what hits and what misses (if it weren't, EVE would already be hacked to bits) so... there must be a steady flow of packets during fleet fights to every participant about every shot being fired on grid as it happens according to the server simulation.
We. Are. Talking. About. A. Single. Bit. Some Pro coding will embed it nicely into the current data (just steal one bit off some value that is being sent about each shot and use it for this), so the added amount of data would be zero.
0/1. Miss/Hit. The rest can be made up by the local (client side) rendering code.
The audacity of this post blows me away, you are obviously not a programmer. Teamwork.. Maturity.. Tactics.. www.tacticalgamer.com |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
280
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 15:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like the new feature, it's great for gauging how often a fast moving ship is being hit when manual-piloting.
Please don't do any averaging or guessing for 3rd party misses though, I'd rather see accurate misses or none at all. It might look neat to see the misses from a third party perspective, but it will totally break the immersion the first time an estimated miss blows up the target. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |
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