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Doctor Shady	Posted - 2006.06.15 06:38:00 - [1] isn't it time to release more of this. i mean supply and demand maybe was suitable for when they first got released. but eve player count is rising every day, therefor you have more people trained to fly those ships, yet sometimes even if they have the moeny, there is only 3-5 of those ships availible on the whole eve universe in market. to be honest, sicne everything went double the price, and triple to some, bpos should be doubled
Father Weebles	Posted - 2006.06.15 07:01:00 - [2] im afraid ccp is dumber than a bucket of dirt when it comes to releasing more t2 bpos...I doubt we'll see more anytime soon..
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2006.06.15 07:01:00 - [3] The problem is, more people are joining EVE all the time, and more players that started playing this game late last year are just now getting into HACs and such. Demand is rising, and in addition, prices have risen because a lot of BPOs that get won by people in the Research Lottery end up getting sold to monopoly corporations that more or less fix the price. TBH, I can't wait for the new research system. Researching for more-common limited-run copies and such. \o/ -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Yonos	Posted - 2006.06.15 07:06:00 - [4] hac/bpos/ccp/supply&demand/richplayers/noobs&veterans arguement of the week. yay. i like cats..........to eat
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:33:00 - [5] Edited by: Jet Collins on 15/06/2006 13:33:07 Say no to more BPO's for tier one tech 2 cruiser and say yes to tier 2 or 3 tech 2 cruiser bPO being relieased.. More resistance more pauwnage . HAC threads are fun
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:35:00 - [6] Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. Then post some suggestions to balance HACs if you feel they would be overpowered. Make Khanid Useful!
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. dont you have a vaga bpo? Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. dont you have a vaga bpo? I am not complaining about Vagabond, am I? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. Then post some suggestions to balance HACs if you feel they would be overpowered. I will but this thread isnt about HACs being overpowered. Think of the case where vets fly HACs, semi-vets, n00bs and semi-n00bs. A battle between 4 sub-T2 ships vs 4 full T2 ships will probably result in 4 full T2 ships gang wins. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
BlackPlague	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:40:00 - [11] Are hacs overpowered in relation to the skills needed to fly them? Or even the skills to be profficient in them? I think not (especially noy Muninn/Eagle/Sacri)
Sandra Tseng	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:45:00 - [12] Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 15/06/2006 13:45:44 Did it ever cross your mind that CCP maybe whants HACs and T2 gear to be a bit more rare and hard to get? A little bit special? I do not think they will boost the BPO releases much. If at all. And I like it this way. Some of the magic stuff about HACs is that they are 1) hard to get 2) expensive 3) scary I do not know about the new R&D system. But I think that "reverse engineering" will somewhat change the way things works now... Sig Removed. Sig requirements are 400*120 Pixels and 24000 bytes or less. Please e-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.15 13:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. Then post some suggestions to balance HACs if you feel they would be overpowered. I will but this thread isnt about HACs being overpowered. Think of the case where vets fly HACs, semi-vets, n00bs and semi-n00bs. A battle between 4 sub-T2 ships vs 4 full T2 ships will probably result in 4 full T2 ships gang wins. You could say that about battleships and frigates too. What's your point? Make Khanid Useful!
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 14:11:00 - [14] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/06/2006 14:12:08 Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. Then post some suggestions to balance HACs if you feel they would be overpowered. I will but this thread isnt about HACs being overpowered. Think of the case where vets fly HACs, semi-vets, n00bs and semi-n00bs. A battle between 4 sub-T2 ships vs 4 full T2 ships will probably result in 4 full T2 ships gang wins. You could say that about battleships and frigates too. What's your point? TBH, IMHO T2 ships are quite "balanced". I do find battles to be fun and interesting when you have various ship types. Meaning they are T1s, T2s and sub-T2s (T1 ships with T2 fittings, etc.) in battles. If T2 prices like HACs especially do get low until they reach everybody, every Tom, ** and Harry will be flying them into battles. Every battle will be who has the complete T2s wins. This can be a problem, cant it? Another problem is cheaper HACs means more Tom, and Harry will buy them. Four months old in HACs, whatever fly them. Newbs and seniors all fly one. Everyone becomes careless and reckless. At the end of the day, supply will also become a problem and it is back to square one. Already enough problems with some members having mentalities with "I need T2s to win". Need to train T2s before PvPing. Every day, different whine with same reasons. As it stands, game is my opinion again balanced between ISKs and skill points. Otherwise, wont be seeing much cries about skill points and HACs threads. I thought EvE is all about fun and wallet economy. When killing hurts, it should hurt. Isnt it hurting a lot at the moment? Just my opinion though. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by:** Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.15 14:20:00 - [15] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 15/06/2006 14:21:39 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. dont you have a vaga bpo? I am not complaining about Vagabond, am I? no but it earns you enough money so you can choose to fly a hac whenever you want, the rest of us cant and yes i am envious Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.15 14:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. Then post some suggestions to balance HACs if you feel they would be overpowered. I will but this thread isnt about HACs being overpowered. Think of the case where vets fly HACs, semi-vets, n00bs and semi-n00bs. A battle between 4 sub-T2 ships vs 4 full T2 ships will probably result in 4 full T2 ships gang wins. as opposed to now when alliance gangs can afford those that they own and get them at alliance price (while still not eveyone in alliance fly them - thus disproving that if they were cheaper 'everyone would') and everyone not in alliance have to lose 2-3x as much isk when flying t2? basically right now it amounts to alliance having price advantage in almost every situation. this is no bash against alliance mind you - just making points with you arguments, which weirda find to be ludicrous (with all due respect!) __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.06.15 14:27:00 - [17] Edited by: Jet Collins on 15/06/2006 14:28:58 I'm a 35mil SP player who has been able to fly HAC's for maybe a year and a half now and I have never flown a vaga :)... Jet is one of the few who chose not to give builders the 300% prfit they are getting now.. Jet wishes he bought one when he though they were to expnsive at 80mil, a year and a half ago. . * Jet would not be supprised if ne very flyes one because he is a cheap bastered :) and has lots of other t2 ships that are much more affordabel to choise from
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 14:30:00 - [18] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/06/2006 14:35:37 Originally by: Weirda Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. Then post some suggestions to balance HACs if you feel they would be overpowered. I will but this thread isnt about HACs being overpowered. Think of the case where vets fly HACs, semi-vets, n00bs and semi-n00bs. A battle between 4 sub-T2 ships vs 4 full T2 ships will probably result in 4 full T2 ships gang wins. as opposed to now when alliance gangs can afford those that they own and get them at alliance price (while still not eveyone in alliance fly them - thus disproving that if they were cheaper 'everyone would') and everyone not in alliance have to lose 2-3x as much isk when flying t2? basically right now it amounts to alliance having price advantage in almost every situation. this is no bash against alliance mind you - just making points with you arguments, which weirda find to be ludicrous (with all due respect!) Well, that is also a problem. TBH, how do you propose T2 BPOs will drop to independent manufacturer? I tend to see many small little companies being bought up by Wal-mart, Tesco, Sainsburys, Carrefour, etc. At the end of the day, there wont be independent sellers or grocerers. Everything is all about big, bigger, better. Quite funny that EvE is somewhat like RL. May be CCP wants everyone to form their little hypermarket chains. EDIT: Well, alliance people also tend to lose more. People who earn more doesnt mean they dont spend more. I see RL CEOs earning 5M a year and spends like 70% to 90% of their earnings. Society these days are different than 50 years ago. Putting my point about people earning more dont mean they spend less... ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 14:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 15/06/2006 14:21:39 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. dont you have a vaga bpo? I am not complaining about Vagabond, am I? no but it earns you enough money so you can choose to fly a hac whenever you want, the rest of us cant and yes i am envious I am feel sorry for you though. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
madaluap	Posted - 2006.06.15 14:36:00 - [20] Originally by: Jet Collins Edited by: Jet Collins on 15/06/2006 14:28:58 I'm a 35mil SP player who has been able to fly HAC's for maybe a year and a half now and I have never flown a vaga :)... Jet is one of the few who chose not to give builders the 300% prfit they are getting now.. Jet wishes he bought one when he though they were to expnsive at 80mil, a year and a half ago. . * Jet would not be supprised if ne very flyes one because he is a cheap bastered :) and has lots of other t2 ships that are much more affordabel to choise from madaluap agrees on point 2, damn why the hell didnt i buy the entire market empty I tried to find my own whine post about hac pricing but cant find it anymore. None of the search engines can find it my issue with hac pricing where the hell is it _________________________________________________
Khatred	Posted - 2006.06.15 15:30:00 - [21] How about some logistic cruisers price complains? Oh wait, those are crap and nobody wants to fly them, everybody wants to fly ships that have an "uber" aura surrounding them. _______________________________________________ Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.15 15:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Khatred How about some logistic cruisers price complains? Oh wait, those are crap and nobody wants to fly them, everybody wants to fly ships that have an "uber" aura surrounding them. No, people want to fly HACs because HACs are actually useful outside of mission/complex whoring :) Make Khanid Useful!
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 16:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Khatred How about some logistic cruisers price complains? Oh wait, those are crap and nobody wants to fly them, everybody wants to fly ships that have an "uber" aura surrounding them. No, people want to fly HACs because HACs are actually useful outside of mission/complex whoring :) Well, useful also means good or as Khatred puts it, invisible "I Own" aura. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Ling Toriyama	Posted - 2006.06.15 16:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Khatred How about some logistic cruisers price complains? Oh wait, those are crap and nobody wants to fly them, everybody wants to fly ships that have an "uber" aura surrounding them. you got 16 hac bpos..... hax
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.15 16:34:00 - [25] The issue is not with the HAC BPO owners. The issue is that not enough HACs can be produced to meet market demand, that's why prices go up. It's not some conspiracy by the BPO owners. They're only doing what you're supposed to do in the game. Eve is not Socialist, do not blame people for making money. The solution, I feel, is either more BPOs released, or CCP to implement some way to turn in RPs for BPCs. By doing that people will turn in their RPs for the most profitable items, which will increase the supply of HACs, and when HACs are no longer massively profitable, they'll turn in their RPs for cloaks, CR2s, etc etc.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.06.15 16:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Ling Toriyama Originally by: Khatred How about some logistic cruisers price complains? Oh wait, those are crap and nobody wants to fly them, everybody wants to fly ships that have an "uber" aura surrounding them. you got 16 hac bpos..... hax Only 16? Thought it was more... --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 16:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ling Toriyama Originally by: Khatred How about some logistic cruisers price complains? Oh wait, those are crap and nobody wants to fly them, everybody wants to fly ships that have an "uber" aura surrounding them. you got 16 hac bpos..... hax Only 16? Thought it was more... 17, thinking of giving him my Vagabond BPO. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Khatred	Posted - 2006.06.15 16:48:00 - [28] Edited by: Khatred on 15/06/2006 16:50:03 With your Vagabond BPO, total would be 18 EDIT: And I fly a Sacrilege cause it's cheaper _______________________________________________ Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.15 17:49:00 - [29] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ling Toriyama Originally by: Khatred How about some logistic cruisers price complains? Oh wait, those are crap and nobody wants to fly them, everybody wants to fly ships that have an "uber" aura surrounding them. you got 16 hac bpos..... hax Only 16? Thought it was more... 17, thinking of giving him my Vagabond BPO. please sell me some copies before you do :'( Make Khanid Useful!
Verizana	Posted - 2006.06.15 17:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/06/2006 13:36:41 Also another problem. If HACs are dirt cheap, everyone will fly them. PvP will never be the same again. EDIT: At this moment PvP is still fun because there are T1 ships, sub-T2 ships and T2 ships. Everyone in everything T2 can be a bit scary, doesnt it? it is ccp's goal to let everyone fly these fkn expensive ships nowadays, later.
Kalaan Oratay	Posted - 2006.06.15 18:14:00 - [31] Just wait for the new battleships, I predict the bottom of the market to fall out. (but I'm naive) ---
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.15 18:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Kalaan Oratay Just wait for the new battleships, I predict the bottom of the market to fall out. (but I'm naive) Everyone said that about T2 battlecruisers too. The reason HACs are so popular is: 1) Relatively low skill requirements 2) Mobility 3) Damage T2 Battlecruisers and most probably T2 Battleships will fail miserably at points #1 and #2. Make Khanid Useful!
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.15 18:24:00 - [33] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ling Toriyama Originally by: Khatred How about some logistic cruisers price complains? Oh wait, those are crap and nobody wants to fly them, everybody wants to fly ships that have an "uber" aura surrounding them. you got 16 hac bpos..... hax Only 16? Thought it was more... 17, thinking of giving him my Vagabond BPO. Can I have some vagabonds before you do
Kcel Chim	Posted - 2006.06.15 18:29:00 - [34] the problem is not just the availability and the price of the ships (as a good). The problem is also the time invested training for them (ive hac 5 and rarely fly them because the current game makes them as dead as any other ship without a stabbed up setup). Last but not least think about the economic problems we already see, t2 market sooner or later develops purely into a "who has the most recon/commandship/hac bpos" situation because only those bpos pull the insane profits needed to think of buying 2-3 more bpos of that kind (for an individual, ive no doubt ascn or other big alliances could collect the money to buy such a bpo or a few for the team).
DARKKK	Posted - 2006.06.15 18:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Kcel Chim the problem is not just the availability and the price of the ships (as a good). The problem is also the time invested training for them (ive hac 5 and rarely fly them because the current game makes them as dead as any other ship without a stabbed up setup). Last but not least think about the economic problems we already see, t2 market sooner or later develops purely into a "who has the most recon/commandship/hac bpos" situation because only those bpos pull the insane profits needed to think of buying 2-3 more bpos of that kind (for an individual, ive no doubt ascn or other big alliances could collect the money to buy such a bpo or a few for the team). If you find one to sell, i might add.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.06.15 20:36:00 - [36] All I can say is I'm sure CCP never meant the HAC's to cost you 200mil, probably more like 50mil (I read that somewhere don't remember where) and 200mil is just crazy i think they should double the amount of BPO's
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.15 21:34:00 - [37] Originally by: Sarmaul The reason HACs are so popular is: 1) Relatively low skill requirements I know what you are saying but thats a pretty depressing statement to someone 5 months into the game.
noitulos	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:19:00 - [38] I'm gonna get in on this because the t2 BPO market is broken beyond belief. Of course the BPO owners don't want competition, but without it you have what we have now...an oligopoly (means a monopoly with a handful of players) with limited supply and increasing demand. Irl a company invents something new and gets a patent for it. This allows them to freely produce that item without competition (as a reward for inventing something new and valuable) from the exact same product for 7 years or something like that. After that patent expires, competition is allowed back in and other people can produce the same item. In eve, once someone has a t2 BPO, the patent lasts forever because there is no way possible for anyone to produce this item. It is essentially a license to print money without the chance for any competition...ever. Add to that, the fact the T2 BPOs are released on a purely chance based lottery...and the only way to play the lottery is to grind agent missions day in and day out...and what you have is a truly broken system in terms of economics. I say release t2 HAC and other BPOs the same way battleships and other t1 items BPOs are released....on the open market, available at any NPC station. For T2 BPOs though, the price tag should be very high. This would allow competition in the T2 market (as there should be), but only to those who have isk or are willing to earn the isk to purchase a very expensive BPO. ______________________________________________ "Every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought." -Sun Tsu
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Sandra Tseng Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 15/06/2006 13:45:44 Did it ever cross your mind that CCP maybe whants HACs and T2 gear to be a bit more rare and hard to get? A little bit special? I thought faction ships were supposed to be rare and hard to get? Also, if they want T2 to be rare how come the market is flooded with T2 mods? Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:27:00 - [40] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/06/2006 22:26:47 Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Sandra Tseng Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 15/06/2006 13:45:44 Did it ever cross your mind that CCP maybe whants HACs and T2 gear to be a bit more rare and hard to get? A little bit special? I thought faction ships were supposed to be rare and hard to get? Also, if they want T2 to be rare how come the market is flooded with T2 mods? Coz resellers collects them over time. They dont all pop when ship pops. Hippo and Sarmaul: Sure. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Coz resellers collects them over time. They dont all pop when ship pops. Thats certainly true, but surely there are ALOT more t2 mod bpo's than t2 ship bpo's? Amarr needs love from the devs damnit!.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:42:00 - [42] Originally by: Imperial Coercion Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Coz resellers collects them over time. They dont all pop when ship pops. Thats certainly true, but surely there are ALOT more t2 mod bpo's than t2 ship bpo's? Maybe but I do doubt it. Difference between ships and mods is, one when it is popped, it is popped. The other depends on luck. If CCP likes you, you get to loot everything. Supplies do increase over time just like ISKs. Ships when you pop it, it is removed from the game. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:45:00 - [43] and don't forget, t2 mod bpos can produce mods at a far higher rate than you can produce HACs. Make Khanid Useful!
Dnol Arendale	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:58:00 - [44] Personally, I'd like to see all the HAC produces just stop producing them for one month. Then, after that month, people will either have A. moved on to other ships B. They can jack the price even higher! of course, that wont happen ever
Blacklight	Posted - 2006.06.16 00:48:00 - [45] Edited by: Blacklight on 16/06/2006 00:49:25 There isn't a problem with the T2 ship supply. There is a problem with people believing they should have access to all ships equally when in a competitive player driven market. Some things are meant to be rare and Eve is supposed to have a dynamic market driven by the players. If we all had access to everything all the time what would be the point in having a player driven market, you may as well have the NPCs supply everything, which would utterly ruin Eve. It's the "I want, I want" mentality coupled with the "I don't want to work for it and don't understand the concept of teamwork and high end gameplay" mentality that causes all the whining about T2 bpos. Edit: I do agree the lottery has been a disaster when it comes to T2 bpo distribution though, the model should be effort = reward and not luck = reward. Eve Blacklight Style
Father Weebles	Posted - 2006.06.16 00:57:00 - [46] Edited by: Father Weebles on 16/06/2006 00:58:28 mabye its the fact that i dont want to spend 20mil isk on 1 item(cap recharger 2 ftw), pay 1.5mil for one medium tech2 drone or pay 100's of mils for non insurable ships....losing that sure aint fun not to mention i dont want to give my isk to some lucky greedy ass bpo winner
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.16 01:10:00 - [47] Originally by: Blacklight Edited by: Blacklight on 16/06/2006 00:49:25 There isn't a problem with the T2 ship supply. There is a problem with people believing they should have access to all ships equally when in a competitive player driven market. Some things are meant to be rare and Eve is supposed to have a dynamic market driven by the players. If we all had access to everything all the time what would be the point in having a player driven market, you may as well have the NPCs supply everything, which would utterly ruin Eve. It's the "I want, I want" mentality coupled with the "I don't want to work for it and don't understand the concept of teamwork and high end gameplay" mentality that causes all the whining about T2 bpos. Edit: I do agree the lottery has been a disaster when it comes to T2 bpo distribution though, the model should be effort = reward and not luck = reward. i have no problem with hacs being very expensive but then they should up the production costs of them by alot, because i dont want to feed a lucky bpo owner with free money i have a problem if production costs are about 30 mill and sell price goes from 100-250 mill i have no problem if ccp decideds to up the production costs up to 100-150 mill, the ones crying the loudest will be the bpo owners and alliances who hold bpos and produce to low cost for their members if they intended them to be THAT rare then they would up the production costs, if thats not the case, then they will increase the availability Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Cohkka	Posted - 2006.06.16 01:11:00 - [48] T2 ship market buggers me. I think CCP should release new bpos after 6 months, maybe even let the BPOs be available on the market after a certain amount of time. That way, R&D researchers still have an advantage but one HAC BPO won't make you one of the richest players in EVE for untill the server shuts down... Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
Cadiz	Posted - 2006.06.16 01:37:00 - [49] My main complaint with the current t2 BPO system (particularly in regard to HACs), it completely screws newer players. Basically, they have no chance whatsoever to get their hands on a HAC (or t2 large gun, or covert ops cloak, or whatever) BPO unless somebody decides to sell one at exorbitant cost - the odds of which are slender indeed, considering the enormous utility and profitability of those key BPOs. So what you've got is a hegemony of the established old guard, and at the time being there is no real way for anybody who came in after those BPOs completed seeding to attempt to compete, barring a ridiculous stroke of luck (namely finding somebody actually willing to sell the BPO...and then being able to outbuy people who already have t2 BPOs and are seeking to expand their collection). We'll have to see how reverse engineering pans out, although it'd also be nice to see an extra t2 BPO of each type seeded once a month or so. What was once cutting edge becomes more common over time, yes? ------ Director, Blood Moon Horde "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Athena Valentina	Posted - 2006.06.16 08:27:00 - [50] Imo the whiners and moaners about the HAC prices are just too lazy to get off their 4ss. I mean what are the prices, 200M for a vaga, 160M for an Ishtar. If you go out mining in 0.0 you can make that money easily in a normal day of gaming. Hoard high-end ore or NPC's for a few hours and buy a HAC the next day. Its not as if ISK is that hard to come by Sheesh.
fire 59	Posted - 2006.06.16 08:40:00 - [51] If people are stupid enough to pay 200-300 million for a hac, then so be it. Just because you can earn enough isk in a short time to get one doesn't mean you have to be dumb enough to pay 300%-400% above production cost or whatever. It's like knowing something in RL cost's ú5 and the store is selling them for ú20, most people would be miffed off because it's a rip off. At the end of the day, whatever . Iron and G eat babie's , my views are my own, they do not refect my corp or my alliance
Sandra Tseng	Posted - 2006.06.16 08:46:00 - [52] Edited by: Sandra Tseng on 16/06/2006 08:46:15 Originally by: Father Weebles Edited by: Father Weebles on 16/06/2006 00:58:28 mabye its the fact that i dont want to spend 20mil isk on 1 item(cap recharger 2 ftw), pay 1.5mil for one medium tech2 drone or pay 100's of mils for non insurable ships....losing that sure aint fun not to mention i dont want to give my isk to some lucky greedy ass bpo winner If you do not want to spend 2+ mil on a cap recharger II you can always spend 8 mil and get an Eutectic recharger instead. No one is forcing you. I do agree on the insurance part though. it is just crap and crap Sig Removed. Sig requirements are 400*120 Pixels and 24000 bytes or less. Please e-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.16 08:49:00 - [53] waves at fire fancy seeing you here. Personally as a player with no t2 bpos and who flies recons i have no problem with the cost of t2 ships. The whole point of flying a 130mil cruiser is it has a lot more advantages, and you get a real sense of fear when you enter an engagement that is most definitely well placed in a game like Eve. Keep prices high, make people appreciate that their ship _is_ better and _is_ worth risking that much isk for. You can earn the isk easy either mining or ratting 0.0 or running missions in empire, especially when the ship makes running the missions easier still. Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Phoenix Pryde	Posted - 2006.06.16 09:10:00 - [54] Originally by: Blacklight There isn't a problem with the T2 ship supply. seconded TRUST Shop // Infinite Improbability Inc [3-I]
fire 59	Posted - 2006.06.16 16:29:00 - [55] Hey bren mate, waves madly Iron and G eat babie's , my views are my own, they do not refect my corp or my alliance
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.16 17:52:00 - [56] Edited by: Sarmaul on 16/06/2006 17:52:29 Originally by: Blacklight There isn't a problem with the T2 ship supply. There is a problem with people believing they should have access to all ships equally when in a competitive player driven market. Some things are meant to be rare and Eve is supposed to have a dynamic market driven by the players. If we all had access to everything all the time what would be the point in having a player driven market, you may as well have the NPCs supply everything, which would utterly ruin Eve. It's the "I want, I want" mentality coupled with the "I don't want to work for it and don't understand the concept of teamwork and high end gameplay" mentality that causes all the whining about T2 bpos. Edit: I do agree the lottery has been a disaster when it comes to T2 bpo distribution though, the model should be effort = reward and not luck = reward. The problem is the number of competitors is strictly controlled by CCP. In every other aspect of EVE a group of determined players can go out and steal business/space from other players except the T2 market, where you either have to win by luck or grind an extortionate amount of ISK and hope someone is having a blond moment and selling a BPO on the forums. The other form of high-end content (and IMO should be the true end-game) is controlling 0.0 territory. Lets have a system where if you want to try and control a region you have to erect (stop s******ing) as many POS as possible. Each POS counts as a "POS Point" - a small gets you one point, medium 2 and large 3. Then, when CCP decides to release a new station, the owner of that new station is randomly chosing using a lottery style system. The only way for someone to take control of that station is for the owner to either sell it or give it to someone else. Okay, it's a rather contrived analogy (I've just come back from work so give me a break) but it's exactly the way the T2 BPO system works. It's pure luck based on how many points you can grind out. There is no player skill involved, just how many accounts you can run at once and how quickly you can get those science skills up. Once that's done, all that's left is to sit back and hope you get lucky. Of course, the other way to play the game is to wait for someone to sell a BPO on the forums and try and outbid everyone else. The problem is that one of the biggest forms of income comes from owning a profitable T2 BPO, so those people are naturally put at an advantage over those wishing to try and enter the market. Oveur has stated himself that there are not enough HAC BPOs in game yet no more were added. Instead of releasing more BPOs, it looks as if we're going to be getting a system that forces us to grind out specialized complexes in the hope of getting a limited run BPC while the 20 lucky people are still given permission to control the market as they fit. I long for the day when any corporation, with enough dedication and teamwork can aquire a full T2 portfolio and provide them to corpmembers at cheap prices like they can do with T1. Sadly it seems CCP would rather sidestep the issue than fix it properly. Anyway, /rant mode off edit: and it's always funny to see the corps/alliances with the T2 BPOs defending the system :) Make Khanid Useful!
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.06.16 20:26:00 - [57] My main issue with the whole T2 BPO deal is that it completely ****s up the supposed "risk vs reward" setup in EVE. Sure I'd like a T2 BPO to build for myself given the silly prices of buying many T2 stuff, but as if that's gonna happen. Those lucky & rich few such as Khatred just hog every friggin' good T2 BPO imaginable, and a few unimaginable ones too I presume. Building a few T1 ships here and there just doesn't quite compare Silverleaf Foundation Website & Shop

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