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Rockbox	Posted - 2006.06.17 17:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Wizie Amarr definitely need some tweaking to bring them up to par with the other races in overall usability. 1) Punisher is actually a great ship. Check Finite horizon killboards for MADGAZ's skills with the punisher. Killing inties is a cakewalk. 2) Maller is a terrible ship when compared to the Thorax, Vexor, Rupture. I believe the issue lies more in the difficulty to fit focused pulse lasers, and use all its slots like a rax/Rupture can with medium guns. 3) Omen is a decent ship IMO... competes well with other lower tier cruisers. 4) The Armageddon was uber when I owned an Amarr account, however with the inclusion of ECM, improved tanking, boost to passive hardening (Energized adaptive nanos), stacking nerf, pulse laser fix. The Geddon went from being one of the best to just an average ship. It is terrible when compared to other ships like Tempest, Mega and Domi for solo PvP, but holds its own and does well in group combat. Could use some tweaking in terms of cpu... and dmg type (will mention later). 5) The Apoc went from being an excellent ship for everyone to train thanks to insane ammounts of cap, huge grid, ease of use of lasers and 8 slots for mining. It was the ship to get if you were new to Eve and wanted to make ISK in 0.0. For PvP, aside from the Tachyon fitted fleet role, and the NOS fitted heavy tank role (which other ships do better due to a higher dmg output)... the Apoc is not a ship that most people think of when they think fun PvP. 6) Zealot is fine overall, dmg type issue exists. Could use a small dronebay. 7) Khanid ships suck the big one, they defnitely need some major changes/tweaks to bring them out of the crap hole they reside in. For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. QFT A great summary Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Wizie Snipped beacause no comment is needed 7) Khanid ships suck the big one, they defnitely need some major changes/tweaks to bring them out of the crap hole they reside in. Ja see here for khanid fix Originally by: Tamora its not the skills that make the eve player... its the smack that back him up
God forbid	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:24:00 - [33] The apoc isnt a bs its a Bad mining barge. Quote: "He did not know, Who he was ******* with."
Frools	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Wizie Amarr definitely need some tweaking to bring them up to par with the other races in overall usability. 1) Punisher is actually a great ship. Check Finite horizon killboards for MADGAZ's skills with the punisher. Killing inties is a cakewalk. 2) Maller is a terrible ship when compared to the Thorax, Vexor, Rupture. I believe the issue lies more in the difficulty to fit focused pulse lasers, and use all its slots like a rax/Rupture can with medium guns. 3) Omen is a decent ship IMO... competes well with other lower tier cruisers. 4) The Armageddon was uber when I owned an Amarr account, however with the inclusion of ECM, improved tanking, boost to passive hardening (Energized adaptive nanos), stacking nerf, pulse laser fix. The Geddon went from being one of the best to just an average ship. It is terrible when compared to other ships like Tempest, Mega and Domi for solo PvP, but holds its own and does well in group combat. Could use some tweaking in terms of cpu... and dmg type (will mention later). 5) The Apoc went from being an excellent ship for everyone to train thanks to insane ammounts of cap, huge grid, ease of use of lasers and 8 slots for mining. It was the ship to get if you were new to Eve and wanted to make ISK in 0.0. For PvP, aside from the Tachyon fitted fleet role, and the NOS fitted heavy tank role (which other ships do better due to a higher dmg output)... the Apoc is not a ship that most people think of when they think fun PvP. 6) Zealot is fine overall, dmg type issue exists. Could use a small dronebay. 7) Khanid ships suck the big one, they defnitely need some major changes/tweaks to bring them out of the crap hole they reside in. For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. agree on everything but number 3 omen sucks, it really does the only thing i've managed to kill solo with it was a stabber and thats because i came out of warp 5k from him so he was web scrambled and conflag'd before he could do anything against a rupture, barely got through his shields with conflag before he popped me with barrage (220mm autos) thorax same story, except he started shooting later maller, tanks most of my damage while i have no tank myself vexor, nossed and explosive droned only place an omen can do well is gang dps but thorax outclasses it there too in fact i've pretty much given up on it and am going to train t2 medium blasters for a thorax when im done with t2 bs lasers
PVP'er	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:56:00 - [35] The zealot does need more damage actually, it loses to ishtar, vaga and cerberus 99% of the time since ishtar will just jam, nos it etc, vaga will just stay out of range (plus it has insane em resists) and cerberus can still easily tank a zealot and deal out more damage than the zealot.
Uggs386	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:56:00 - [36] Been amarr spec character for ages now, and I have given up arguing with everyone about how crappy amarr ships are atm compared to the other races. Amarr needs a good solo ship, wehave prolly 2 good solo ships atm, both of the recon cruisers the others are only good in groups. Geddon used to be good at solo, then dmg mod nerf, and it doesnt have enough cpu to be able to web/tank/gank like other bs. Apoc, not even going to get started, I'm pretty sure most t1 cruisers are better solo ships. My answer for this: Large projectiles lvl 5 finished, Minny bs lvl 5 finished, Large hybrid lvl 5 started training, this makes me sad. Removed, inappropriate signature image - zhuge
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.18 03:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Wizie For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. What game do you play again? Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.18 09:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. What game do you play again? EVE, apparently not the same as you. Technically we have a 50:50 distribution between shieldand armortankers, but with ECM being at it is even traditional shieldtankers quite often armortank in PvP to keep med slots free for ECM, jammer, etc.
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.18 10:36:00 - [39] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. What game do you play again? So what is shield tanked these days and can get vaporized by lasers? Oh wait, we can throw all t2 minmatar ships out, even if you chew their shields, you will fail at their armor miserably. So that leaves few caldari ships, and even those tend to fit jammers instead of shield tank. And giving them more slots will make them just fit more EW. --------- Dead already?
000Hunter000	Posted - 2006.06.18 11:25:00 - [40] U know, it's not that hard to get a good EM shieldtank as well, i can get my nighthawk over 80% on ALL damagetypes

Cruz	Posted - 2006.06.18 14:02:00 - [41] Originally by: 000Hunter000 U know, it's not that hard to get a good EM shieldtank as well, i can get my nighthawk over 80% on ALL damagetypes But then you get jammed and die. .................
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.18 16:39:00 - [42] i show you this from the another amarr post
Wizie	Posted - 2006.06.18 17:24:00 - [43] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. What game do you play again? Retarded trolls.. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.18 18:12:00 - [44] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. What game do you play again? So what is shield tanked these days and can get vaporized by lasers? Oh wait, we can throw all t2 minmatar ships out, even if you chew their shields, you will fail at their armor miserably. So that leaves few caldari ships, and even those tend to fit jammers instead of shield tank. And giving them more slots will make them just fit more EW. I am sorry you play BoB's version of EVE where you don't fight unless you mass in force.... you know there are other PvP aspecs of EVE that doesn't involved fleet tactics. Shield tankers are alive and well especially in Empire which is more dangerous than 0.0 kthxe. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.18 18:14:00 - [45] Originally by: Wizie Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. What game do you play again? Retarded trolls.. I asked a valid question. You spit out garbage like their are very few shield tankers. I would wager there is more variation in empire PvP in 2006 then 0.0 and most of it centers around caldari shield tankers and not ewar. But.. you can think what you want. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.06.18 18:24:00 - [46] Originally by: Sniser i show you this from the another amarr post Just so that people don't get all exited about the gallente HAC's; this graph shows the theoretical damage with large (as in battleship-sized) blasters, not cruiser-sized blasters. This is a mistake, corrected in another thread that I can't remember, unfortunately... NB.
Wizie	Posted - 2006.06.18 18:26:00 - [47] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. What game do you play again? So what is shield tanked these days and can get vaporized by lasers? Oh wait, we can throw all t2 minmatar ships out, even if you chew their shields, you will fail at their armor miserably. So that leaves few caldari ships, and even those tend to fit jammers instead of shield tank. And giving them more slots will make them just fit more EW. I am sorry you play BoB's version of EVE where you don't fight unless you mass in force.... you know there are other PvP aspecs of EVE that doesn't involved fleet tactics. Shield tankers are alive and well especially in Empire which is more dangerous than 0.0 kthxe. I'm sorry you play Eve purely for PvE or for ganking noob npcers in Ravens. Which is why you seem to believe that there are so many shield tankers. Theres more to Eve than npcing. (See, I can play the stereotyping game too... Lukec pvps solo more often than not). PvP fits hardly fit shield tanks aside from the few tech II ships and a few Ravens in groups. Minmatar shield tankers are not a typical shield tank as in context, they have huge em/therm resists. Your post was not a question, it was a troll attempt. A weak one at that. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2006.06.18 18:47:00 - [48] That graph is all kinds of messed up as Naughty Boy said, the Ishtar (and Deimos?) are shown using battleship sized blasters. As for the the "Scorch vs Fury Heavy Missile" thing... the penalties on Scorch are much less severe than the one on Fury, also you can't fit 3x BCU II on a Cerberus using Fury because you need to fit extra mods to slap an Injector on.. so 2 at best, I can't find a non faction setup that allows me to fit 3, englighten me if you can. ------ FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.18 18:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Wizie For dmg output... I believe it is high time that CCP balanced out the em/thermal dmg ratio for Lasers. With the introduction of better tanking, passive hardening skills and stacking penalty. High amounts of primarily EM damage is a major hindrance. Sure they work on shield tankers, but there are very few shield tankers in game. What game do you play again? So what is shield tanked these days and can get vaporized by lasers? Oh wait, we can throw all t2 minmatar ships out, even if you chew their shields, you will fail at their armor miserably. So that leaves few caldari ships, and even those tend to fit jammers instead of shield tank. And giving them more slots will make them just fit more EW. I am sorry you play BoB's version of EVE where you don't fight unless you mass in force.... you know there are other PvP aspecs of EVE that doesn't involved fleet tactics. Shield tankers are alive and well especially in Empire which is more dangerous than 0.0 kthxe. Surely you would not reject a little 1vs1 offer to some newbie from Bob eve version, would you? --------- Dead already?
Meridius	Posted - 2006.06.18 18:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Jim Raynor That graph is all kinds of messed up as Naughty Boy said, the Ishtar (and Deimos?) are shown using battleship sized blasters. - _____

Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:04:00 - [51] Thanks Meridius. they still win by far a lot far ^^
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:09:00 - [52] Originally by: Sniser Thanks Meridius. they still win by far a lot far ^^ Yeah but 3x gyro II makes no sacrifice on f-aga, while 3x ionsII + 3x mag stab 2 sounds like horrible idea on ishtar and will also leave you with very little cpu for medslots. --------- Dead already?
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:17:00 - [53] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Sniser Thanks Meridius. they still win by far a lot far ^^ Yeah but 3x gyro II makes no sacrifice on f-aga, while 3x ionsII + 3x mag stab 2 sounds like horrible idea on ishtar and will also leave you with very little cpu for medslots. you lose lows we lose meds, and?
St Dragon	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:19:00 - [54] I hear there is a certain mimitar Hac that can 1v1 a amarr titan with a super wepon because it can easilly tank the EM damage the superwepon does. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:20:00 - [55] Originally by: St Dragon I hear there is a certain mimitar Hac that can 1v1 a amarr titan with a super wepon because it can easilly tank the EM damage the superwepon does. I hear there is a certain amarr Hac that can 1v1 a minmatar titan with a super wepon because it can easilly tank the EXP damage the superwepon does. Make Khanid Useful!
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Sniser Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Sniser Thanks Meridius. they still win by far a lot far ^^ Yeah but 3x gyro II makes no sacrifice on f-aga, while 3x ionsII + 3x mag stab 2 sounds like horrible idea on ishtar and will also leave you with very little cpu for medslots. you lose lows we lose meds, and? What are you trying to say, exactly... yeah armor tankers have choice between tank and damage and stabs. You have enough place for all that. --------- Dead already?
Meridius	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:33:00 - [57] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Sniser Thanks Meridius. they still win by far a lot far ^^ Yeah but 3x gyro II makes no sacrifice on f-aga, while 3x ionsII + 3x mag stab 2 sounds like horrible idea on ishtar and will also leave you with very little cpu for medslots. It's a horrible idea only because you can do great dps and tank, so pure gank isn't needed. You can fit. --- Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Medium Nosferatu II Small Nosferatu II -- Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Warp Prohibitor I ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II - Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II You can drop the tech 2 jammers/nos if you're cheap and swap out a coproc for something else to. Does around 775dps without any implants, can web/scramble and jam - _____
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.06.18 20:58:00 - [58] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Sniser Thanks Meridius. they still win by far a lot far ^^ Yeah but 3x gyro II makes no sacrifice on f-aga, while 3x ionsII + 3x mag stab 2 sounds like horrible idea on ishtar and will also leave you with very little cpu for medslots. It's a horrible idea only because you can do great dps and tank, so pure gank isn't needed. You can fit. --- Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Heavy Ion Blaster II Medium Nosferatu II Small Nosferatu II -- Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Warp Prohibitor I ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II - Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Co-Processor II Co-Processor II You can drop the tech 2 jammers/nos if you're cheap and swap out a coproc for something else to. Does around 775dps without any implants, can web/scramble and jam I promise i will find shield tanked geddon setup that will own bs dps scale. --------- Dead already?
Kyguard	Posted - 2006.06.18 21:22:00 - [59] Originally by: Cruz But then you get jammed and die. Welcome to the world of the Apoc and Amarr. Armor tanking and getting jammed. === God is on the side with the best arti
Meridius	Posted - 2006.06.18 21:43:00 - [60] Originally by: LUKEC I promise i will find shield tanked geddon setup that will own bs dps scale. Uhh, what? - _____



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