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Possible Bonuses for the Tier 3 Battleships and Tier 2 Battlecruiser

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Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2006.06.17 01:06:00 - [1] Possible Bonuses for the Tier 3 Battleships and Tier 2 Battlecruiser: Per Level: 5% Damage 5% Rate of fire 5% Tracking 5% Bonus to Max speed 5% Reduction in MWD Cap size penalty 5% Resistances Bonuses (Shields or Armor) 10% Bonus to Shield Boosting or Armor Reping 10% Optimal Range 10% Fall Off 10% Missile Speed 10% Missile flight time 10% Cap Use reduction 10% Cap Size Bonus 10% Drone Hit Points and Damage Assorted possible EW Bonuses Bonuses to energy Nos / Neutralizer ranges/amounts And the above just look at existing bonuses Other than the Caldari Tier 3 having a 10% per level bonus to Optimal Range for large Rails as one of its bonuses, anyone have any info on likely bonuses???
Cadiz	Posted - 2006.06.17 01:10:00 - [2] If the tier 3 Caldari battleship follows in the footsteps of every other tech 1 Caldari gunship in the game so far, then it will get 10% optimal and 5% to shield resists per level. As for the rest, no clue whatsoever. I'm betting that the Minnie one will be an oversized Stabber, though! ------ Director, Blood Moon Horde "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Favored Dead	Posted - 2006.06.17 01:22:00 - [3] Just out of curiousity, does anyone remember when they changed the boost amount bonus on the Moa to a shield resistance bonus?
Cadiz	Posted - 2006.06.17 03:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Favored Dead Just out of curiousity, does anyone remember when they changed the boost amount bonus on the Moa to a shield resistance bonus? RMR. They did a pretty substantial overhaul and rebalancing of sub-battleship t1 vessels then. ------ Director, Blood Moon Horde "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.17 04:07:00 - [5] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 17/06/2006 04:11:24 Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 17/06/2006 04:07:10 That was a very nice fix for the merlin and moa to say the least. I'd be very suprised if the Roc isn't 10% range, 5% resists like all the other Caldari gunships, but I'd love 5% ROF 10% range. edit: And I'm willing to bet the tier2 Caldari BC will be 10% missile velocity, and either 5% rof (YES PLEASE), or 5% kinetic.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2006.06.17 08:48:00 - [6] Edited by: Amy Wang on 17/06/2006 08:54:37 Problem with giving a BS a 10% optimal bonus for more then 4-5 guns (and the Caldari one seems to have 8 judging from concept art) is, that its totally overpowered. A group of 8 turret Rail BS mit 50% optimal range bonus would be able to nail everything at range with no chance for the opponent to retaliate (short of having same type of BS themselfes). But there are assault ships with even a double optimal bonus you say? Correct but a cruiser with such a bonus reaches only BS range and can thus be countered by at least every long range BS while a BS with optimal bonus wouldnt be counterable by anything if it dictates range. I bet the dev know that too, so there are only 3 possibilities: a) no tier 3 BS getting a 10% optimal/lvl bonus (best solution) b) all tier 3 BS getting a 10% optimal bonus (boring but balanced, but somehow not consistent with the devs future plans to shorten combat ranges) c) only Caldari tier 3 BS getting a 10% optimal bonus, but only getting 4 turret hardpoint (I can hear the crying already) ********************************************************* Whatever, my suggestions for the new matari ships: tier 2 BC: 1. 5% rof 2. 5% armor resistance or 5% damage tier 3 BS: 1. 10% rof or if someone decides to play the range war: 1. 5% rof 2. 10% optimal range
Shadowsword	Posted - 2006.06.17 09:15:00 - [7] Originally by: Amy Wang tier 3 BS: 1. 10% rof Do you realize that it would DOUBLE the rate of fire of your guns, giving that BS both the best alpha-strike (preliminary stats give it 8 guns->tempest obsolete) and the best Dps as well? That's not going to happen, because it would make every other BS, apart for the scorpion, a useless piece of junk. ------------------------------------------ Don't make War, War is messy. Make love instead, so your kids will do the War part for you.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2006.06.17 10:16:00 - [8] Not really. It would be a dedicated arty ship with a better long range dps as tempest but only a slightly better alpha strike (7,5 guns vs 8). The horrible DPS on artys is kinda evened out with the 10% rof and the small clip size combined with the fact that 10% rof makes reloading neccessary even more often lowers the dps gain from rof even more. Tempest would still be better for short range engagements due to its higher speed, manouverability and because you will want 2 utility slots for nos anyway with a short range setup. But maybe 10% rof is not the way to go, I only hope the devs find a bonus combination that doesnt leave us with another phoon. For the minmatar tier 3 BS there arent that many useful choices anyway. 5% rof % damage: boring, same as tempest 5% resistance bonus or repper/booster bonus: half useless, unless it gets a bonus to both as a single bonus, since minni ships are supposed to both armor and shield tank (esp. with 8/6/6 slot layout) 5% speed or mwd bonus: useless, since it will be the slowest and heaviest minni BS most likely 10% optimal: overpowerd as already statet above (ok if all new BS get this ofc) 5% tracking: make thet 7,5% or 10% more likely, could be useful 10% falloff: useful for short range ac boat which is not very likely to happen (slow and clumsy, see speed bonus) cap, missile and drone bonus: dont make sense unless devs are planning to screw minnis over again with another phoon ew bonus: hmmm, would be a target painting bonus and I can smell the ccp office already burn if thats going to happen gg so there aren¦t really that much choices for useful minmatar bonuses along the conventional lines, as long as the ship is intended to make sense
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.06.17 10:19:00 - [9] I sincerely doubt caldari tier 3 BS will have 8 turrets... 6-7 max and up to 3 launchers... ROF and resistance seems a few good choices though optimal bonus could be a reality soon even if it makes it very long range... Pinky
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.06.17 10:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Possible Bonuses for the Tier 3 Battleships and Tier 2 Battlecruiser: Per Level: 5% Damage 5% Rate of fire 7.5% Tracking 5% Bonus to Max speed 10% Reduction in MWD Cap size penalty 5% Resistances Bonuses (Shields or Armor) 7.5% Bonus to Shield Boosting or Armor Reping 10% Optimal Range 10% Fall Off 10% Missile Speed 10% Missile flight time 10% <size> Energy Turret Cap Use reduction 10% Cap Size Bonus 10% Drone Hit Points and Damage Assorted possible EW Bonuses Bonuses to energy Nos / Neutralizer ranges/amounts And the above just look at existing bonuses Other than the Caldari Tier 3 having a 10% per level bonus to Optimal Range for large Rails as one of its bonuses, anyone have any info on likely bonuses??? Changes in red. Comments in order of appearance: 1. Tracking is getting boosted. 5% (found on many Gallente ships) bonuses become 7.5% bonuses and 7.5% (found on destroeyers) bonuses become 10% bonuses. 2. A 5% reduction in MWD nerf is actually as strong as 10% increase to capacitor capacity when using an MWD, when not it doesn't give bonus at all. Look at Vindicator for a more likely BATTLESHIP grade bonus. 3. Repair bonuses are 7.5% and not 5% in order to keep them more in line with the 5% resistance bonuses in terms of usefulness. 4. Semantics, I know. Sorry. As for the question: Gallente ships nearly ALWAYS get a hybrid turret damage bonus, and this ship is going to be no exception - or otherwise it'd be much worse than the Megathron! Amarr ships nearly always get a laser cap use reduction bonus, or they won't be able to use their lasers properly. The only exception is the Arbitrator, which isn't a real Amarr ship to begin with (it's even got EWar!). Amarr aren't going to get a drone ship (no one is). Period. The Caldari ship won't get a hybrid turret damage bonus unless it get few enough turrets to make people whine like mad on the boards. Expect a tanking bonus a'la progression for Merlin, Moa, and Ferox. The Minmatar ship will get a target painter bonus in order to **** Sarmaul off. New sig coming soonÖ Tuxford's good for EVE.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.06.17 10:48:00 - [11] We will have -10% rate of "fire" for nos + 10% drone bonus and a healthy drone bay and 8 highs + enough grid on the abaddon
FFGR	Posted - 2006.06.17 10:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Tassi We will have -10% rate of "fire" for nos + 10% drone bonus and a healthy drone bay and 8 highs + enough grid on the abaddon Don't forget the 10% optimal range and 10% ECM effectiveness on the new Caldari Railboat with 8 turrets and 8/8/2 _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Devanesc	Posted - 2006.06.17 11:28:00 - [13] Originally by: FFGR Originally by: Tassi We will have -10% rate of "fire" for nos + 10% drone bonus and a healthy drone bay and 8 highs + enough grid on the abaddon Don't forget the 10% optimal range and 10% ECM effectiveness on the new Caldari Railboat with 8 turrets and 8/8/2 AND THE ABILITY TO FIT CAPITAL WEAPONS! AND... AND.. 90% RESISTANCES BONUS!!! TIER 3 4TW! :P
Monkphish	Posted - 2006.06.17 11:31:00 - [14] amarr bc 5% rof 10% med eng turret cap use (mini geddon) amarr bs 5% dam 10% lrg eng turret cap use (uber tach platform) or maybe not
Paigan	Posted - 2006.06.17 11:53:00 - [15] Edited by: Paigan on 17/06/2006 11:53:51 Originally by: Amy Wang c) only Caldari tier 3 BS getting a 10% optimal bonus, but only getting 4 turret hardpoint (I can hear the crying already) You know if that will happen then i'll use it as a short range pwnmobile with 4x Neutron Cannon II 4x Heavy Nos Tanked to the Teeth (with assumed 7 medslots + damage control + 25% resistances) Well okay, this will probably be possible in almost any other slot-scenario, too. I just got the idea when reading 4 turrets. My suggestion would be 6 turrets + 2 launchers. 625+ CPU, 12000grid (sufficient for high end 425 II fitting) -- This game is still in beta stage
Cadiz	Posted - 2006.06.17 13:03:00 - [16] Edited by: Cadiz on 17/06/2006 13:05:43 Originally by: Amy Wang Edited by: Amy Wang on 17/06/2006 08:54:37 Problem with giving a BS a 10% optimal bonus for more then 4-5 guns (and the Caldari one seems to have 8 judging from concept art) is, that its totally overpowered. A group of 8 turret Rail BS mit 50% optimal range bonus would be able to nail everything at range with no chance for the opponent to retaliate (short of having same type of BS themselfes). But there are assault ships with even a double optimal bonus you say? Correct but a cruiser with such a bonus reaches only BS range and can thus be countered by at least every long range BS while a BS with optimal bonus wouldnt be counterable by anything if it dictates range. I bet the dev know that too, so there are only 3 possibilities: a) no tier 3 BS getting a 10% optimal/lvl bonus (best solution) b) all tier 3 BS getting a 10% optimal bonus (boring but balanced, but somehow not consistent with the devs future plans to shorten combat ranges) c) only Caldari tier 3 BS getting a 10% optimal bonus, but only getting 4 turret hardpoint (I can hear the crying already) ********************************************************* Whatever, my suggestions for the new matari ships: tier 2 BC: 1. 5% rof 2. 5% armor resistance or 5% damage tier 3 BS: 1. 10% rof or if someone decides to play the range war: 1. 5% rof 2. 10% optimal range One problem - you've already got people hitting at 200 - 220km with t2 ammo, and that doesn't necessarily even take falloff into account. A Caldari gunship with 10% optimal per level would just let you engage at those kinds of ranges without sinking an obscene amount of time into t2 large guns, that's all. As maximum range is hard-capped at 249km, there wouldn't be much difference rangewise. I imagine it'll get 6 turrets. Caldari are usually a bit slender on their primary weapon slots compared to other races. ------ Director, Blood Moon Horde "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Gierling	Posted - 2006.06.17 15:05:00 - [17] Gallente ship will likely have the MWD Bonus and a falloff bonus. Click Me And Me
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Cadiz One problem - you've already got people hitting at 200 - 220km with t2 ammo, and that doesn't necessarily even take falloff into account. A Caldari gunship with 10% optimal per level would just let you engage at those kinds of ranges without sinking an obscene amount of time into t2 large guns, that's all. As maximum range is hard-capped at 249km, there wouldn't be much difference rangewise. I imagine it'll get 6 turrets. Caldari are usually a bit slender on their primary weapon slots compared to other races. mmm not really hybrid have the highest optimal range and probably is the highest range sniper, heard of mega sniping at over 300km a 50% to optimal will probably boost the max range by around 30% so even in your example if a mega now have a battlerange of 220km a similar ship with a 50% to optimal will be close to 300km wich is quite a big difference.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Gierling Gallente ship will likely have the MWD Bonus and a falloff bonus. If I was a booky, I'd put it down on worse than 10x money. Unlikely is the word you are looking for since those bonuses would make it a worse blaster ship than the Megathron by far. It's all about damage when it comes to blasterships, don't do enough, quick enough, and you die. New sig coming soonÖ Tuxford's good for EVE.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.06.17 19:42:00 - [20] Ithildin thats because blaster ships are very binary now, theyre either taking damage approaching the target... or dealing damage. With an MWD and a faloff bonus you'll be doing damage instantly instead of after that awkward 30 second mwd trip. Click Me And Me
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.17 19:50:00 - [21] I'm just thinking the Amarr will get 5% to Armour resists per level and the 10% to laser cap use per level. Which will make the Apoc completely redundant, unless the highslot layout on the Abaddon (Tier 3 Amarr BS) is gimped - in which case the Abaddon will be redundant. The only time where cap is an issue, but tank isn't, is where you are shooting a station over. If it's PvP cap isn't an issue from laser use. So cap goes to tank... so a 5% per level bonus to cap is the same as a 5% armour resists per level (although one is better than the other, someone work out which?).
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.06.17 19:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Gierling Ithildin thats because blaster ships are very binary now, theyre either taking damage approaching the target... or dealing damage. With an MWD and a faloff bonus you'll be doing damage instantly instead of after that awkward 30 second mwd trip. I don't know about you, but 7km rarely take me 30 seconds to cross. Especially not with an MWD. At the same time you're doing 9% less damage, which is... neither good nor defendable in a blastership. Also, I know that I've got all the Minmatar whorum... warriors... with me (Sarmaul, you there?) when I say that having autocannon-like falloff is not really what the game needs. New sig coming soonÖ Tuxford's good for EVE.
Paigan	Posted - 2006.06.17 20:04:00 - [23] Edited by: Paigan on 17/06/2006 20:04:41 Originally by: Ath Amon Originally by: Cadiz [...] mmm not really hybrid have the highest optimal range and probably is the highest range sniper, heard of mega sniping at over 300km [...] I don't believe that. As the max targeting range is still hard-capped at 249km or something. -- This game is still in beta stage
DarKDruG	Posted - 2006.06.17 23:32:00 - [24] Having flown pretty much every caldari gunship (i know, i know, you can count em on one hand), i'm also estimating that the bonuses would be a 10% optimal, 5% resistances per level. True, with 425mm's it would reach ranges that go far beyond the targetting hardcap, but think about this: 425mm II's loaded with javelin would have an optimal of about 75km (estimate, maybe someone can come up with realistic numbers) at bs lvl 5. As far as i know slot-wise, it would have 8 turrets (wouldn't outdamage the megathron but still capable of reasonable dps)
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.17 23:36:00 - [25] /me guess shield resist and rail optimal bonus. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Quote: Tier 3 Minmatar BS needs Target Painting for bonuses.
Waenn Ironstaff	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:21:00 - [26] Originally by: DarKDruG Having flown pretty much every caldari gunship (i know, i know, you can count em on one hand), i'm also estimating that the bonuses would be a 10% optimal, 5% resistances per level. True, with 425mm's it would reach ranges that go far beyond the targetting hardcap, but think about this: 425mm II's loaded with javelin would have an optimal of about 75km (estimate, maybe someone can come up with realistic numbers) at bs lvl 5. As far as i know slot-wise, it would have 8 turrets (wouldn't outdamage the megathron but still capable of reasonable dps) Have you seen the penalty for using Javelin ammo? That is the T2 Ammo no Caldari user can shoot. The added damage is not worth that much loss of defense.
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:22:00 - [27] if that thing has an 8/8/2 setup and 5% resist i see a lot of cap recharger 2s going up in price... On the other hand it may tempt me away from the multimillion SP missile skilling route... Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Shaemell Buttleson	Posted - 2006.06.18 02:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Amy Wang tier 3 BS: 1. 10% rof Do you realize that it would DOUBLE the rate of fire of your guns, giving that BS both the best alpha-strike (preliminary stats give it 8 guns->tempest obsolete) and the best Dps as well? That's not going to happen, because it would make every other BS, apart for the scorpion, a useless piece of junk. Wouldn't it have to be 20% ROF per level to double it? It's late here btw and I'm prolly totaly wrong.
Androclese	Posted - 2006.06.18 02:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Stamm I'm just thinking the Amarr will get 5% to Armour resists per level and the 10% to laser cap use per level. Which will make the Apoc completely redundant, unless the highslot layout on the Abaddon (Tier 3 Amarr BS) is gimped - in which case the Abaddon will be redundant. The only time where cap is an issue, but tank isn't, is where you are shooting a station over. If it's PvP cap isn't an issue from laser use. So cap goes to tank... so a 5% per level bonus to cap is the same as a 5% armour resists per level (although one is better than the other, someone work out which?). The apoc was made redundant when mining barges were introduced!
Cadiz	Posted - 2006.06.18 03:40:00 - [30] Edited by: Cadiz on 18/06/2006 03:41:39 Originally by: Ath Amon mmm not really hybrid have the highest optimal range and probably is the highest range sniper, heard of mega sniping at over 300km a 50% to optimal will probably boost the max range by around 30% so even in your example if a mega now have a battlerange of 220km a similar ship with a 50% to optimal will be close to 300km wich is quite a big difference. Missed the bit about the hard-capped 249km maximum, eh? That is the absolute maximum range you can lock a target at, and if you can't lock a target then you can't shoot them, now can you? Even POSes are constrained by this. With that in mind, +10% optimal per level is a pretty tame bonus. If you can already use t2 large hybrids and fly a Megathron then there will be no reason to get particularly excited about it, unless you're eyeballing it from a tanking perspective. Although you might see some screwball blaster setups appear... ------ Director, Blood Moon Horde "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."

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