Where do I begin?

No bonuses to its primary weapons systems with a horrible mix and match of turrets and launcher slots. and given bonuses to support weapons systems.


No, it's a malformation from the abyss that needs to be returned. Its laser powers restored and the Drone or NOS bonus removed, as it NOT Gallentean or heretical Blood Raider. It was fine the way it was, and it did not need changing to something akin to an Amarrian Skinned Typhoon, with no actual bonuses.

Drop 2 launchers (so you still have 7 total). Give the Launcher/Turret an ROF increase. Drop drone bay down to 100m-¦, and remove the Nos/Neut range bonuses. We have Recon ships for that job.

Anything that has not been rebalanced or added since this trend started is exempt.

Then the argument that just happened was for nothing, and your entire sample pool is about just SoE and nothing else. That's not a 'trend', that's an 'outlier'. If they went through and meticulously added +10mb and +10m3 to each and every cloaky with 40mb drone capabilities, then removed weapon slots, THAT would be a trend

EDIT: Alternatively, you could argue that SoE set a precedence with their cruiser/frigate PvP worthy cloak ships. Either way, it's not a trend.

Now, I have nothing against the SOE ships, but I want to see blackops do real gun damage. I'd like see them decked out for sniping, and/or be able to field a proper battleship tank. Their training time is nearly on par with motherships, they deserve to be a cool ship class. Imo, we have enough ewar in the game. Make them gunboats!

I do use the 1/3 number as "heavily reliant" because of the conflict that drones and cloaks have. A blops or recon pilot constantly has to leave behind his drones, disconnect from them, or get them blown up. I had a fantastic Redeemer fit that did just over 1k dps. 375 of it was from ogre IIs. Mid 600s and just over 1000 are massively different dps numbers and are contingent on... *gasp* the cloak. (Oh, look, I can be condescending, too!) By the way, if you actually read what I had to say, I included stealth bombers in the tally AGAINST my point, not in support of it.

Part of the reason why the SOE ships make good cloaky drone boats is hinted at here. Leaving behind drones isn't such a big deal when you can hold 4 flights of sentries in a Stratios.

Another part of the reason is that the Stratios is just flat out better than a lot of T2 recons. Better slots, better DPS, better tank, better fitting, better agility than at least a couple of them. The only reason it doesn't cost the same as a T2 recon is because the SOE LP price is artificially inflated by players with the constant demand for Sisters probe launchers.

So yeah, SOE ships are an example of cloaky drone boats done right, because in comparison to everything else in it's class they're just superior in every way, and not solely in the matter of cloaks and drones. E-war for the Recons still applies, but please consider how many different flights of E-war drones you can carry in those ships. The ability to apply different types of E-war without refitting or sacrificing slots is a fair trade for bonuses in one specific E-war, in my opinion.

I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).

I'm in dire need of getting away from this 10 days off per year nonsense.

Where do I begin?

No bonuses to its primary weapons systems with a horrible mix and match of turrets and launcher slots. and given bonuses to support weapons systems.

Its a primary ship of the line for the Amarr Empire. Imagine if you will a Nimitz class carrier of having its steam catapults to launch its fighters, retrofitted to a fat man with a hand catapult made out of toilet rolls and elastic bands. That is the level of trainwreck going on here.

"Oh!" The masses cry unto the heavens "The Armageddon is now a surprise ship! People do not know what is being used!"

No, it's a malformation from the abyss that needs to be returned. Its laser powers restored and the Drone or NOS bonus removed, as it NOT Gallentean or heretical Blood Raider. It was fine the way it was, and it did not need changing to something akin to an Amarrian Skinned Typhoon, with no actual bonuses.

Drop 2 launchers (so you still have 7 total). Give the Launcher/Turret an ROF increase. Drop drone bay down to 100m-¦, and remove the Nos/Neut range bonuses. We have Recon ships for that job.

Send your hate mail to the usual address.

*edit* fixed math fail regarding turrets/launchers

I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).

-list of Spugg's-

Armageddon is fine. Perhaps some fitting tweaks.
- agreed

The Apocalypse is a little lackluster
- maybe some 750 more powergrid and 30 cpu

The Abaddon is just fine. (perhaps a smidge more CPU)
- agreed

The Scopion is the Scorpion. Leave it as is
- I wouldn't mind making the fith highslot a turret and or launcher hardpoint

The Raven is good but torpedos suck.
- agrred on both

The Rokh could probably move a low slot to a mid but is otherwise just fine.
- leave her as is

The Dominix has a bonus effecting all size drones. Needs to have the bonus effect large drones only.
- being a battleship, I would say leave her as is

The Megatron is perfect.
- agreed

The Hyperion is perfect.
- agreed

The Typhoon is perfect.
- I take your word for it

The Tempest is bizarre. It's a ship that has no clue as to what it is. It kind of works but I'm not sure if this ship needs to be re-invented or not.
- no opinion, since I don't fly any of them

The Maelstrom is okay. Maybe tweak its fittings a little.
- see Tempest

HAC's

Zealot is a bit slow and the Omen Navy overshadows it as an exceptional kiter
- maybe a bigger cargohold

Sacriledge is good (It's just Heavy Missiles that are slightly underpowered)
- agreed

Cerberus is good but HMLs let it down a little
- agreed

Eagle is good
- agreed

Deimos is great
- agreed

Ishtar is overpowered. Needs to lose the all drone damage / tracking / optimal bonus and get a medium specific bonus and introduction of medium sentries would help.
- maybe remove sentries from a cruiser would help

Muninn is lame. I'm not sure what it needs but it's super lame.
- see Tempest

Vagabond is good.
- see Tempest

I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).

I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).

Well the Domi's already getting a new model.

I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).

I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).

What i would like to see from a Battleship re-do....
I want to see each race get 1 BS with damage bonuses, 1 BS with tanking bonuses and one BS with high utility.
I would like to see the damage bonuses be all turret based. I would like to see the Tanking and utility ships to have full turret and missile hard points. Missiles and drones would then be Utility weapon systems usable by everyone (just like would make sense since missiles are generally a prereq technology to space travel and each race has their own type of drone).

Utility would be as follows and pretty obvious anyways:
Gal: Drones
Cal: ECM
Amarr: Neut
Min: Speed (maybe prop/mjd bonuses in lue of damage/tank?)

Then Faction Navy Ships could have dual bonuses damage/tank utility/tank damage/utility. And pirates wouldn't really need any changing.

Then all the battleships would have lots of versatility while also having their intended roles. And you're not limited to race specific weapon systems so you'd have a lot of customization and ease to cross training ships.

Also bring back 8 hardpoint high slot ships, especially for the Hyperion (looks horrible the way it is now).
Also that Raven shooting lasers down on Dusties in that one Image could then be seen as a railgun Raven instead. ;)

I think very next thing for me is going back to Battleships and HACs for polish passes now that they've been out in the wild awhile and there's some room for improvements.

Black ops and Recons are both on the short list after that but I'm not sure exactly what the schedule will be (Summer is crazy in Europe, they let you just not go to work).