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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Keta Min
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:05:00 -
[31]
vice is right tbh.
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Ozzie Asrail
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:10:00 -
[32]
Buying a ship is like buying an ice cream. Either it melts or it gets eaten.
The real question is was it tasty enough? 
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Geotech is recruiting! |
Tyrus Ex
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:13:00 -
[33]
OMG. A debate about Marginalism.
This thread is ghey and pointless.
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:23:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: MOOstradamus
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 23/06/2006 13:28:13
In the BLUE corner we have Viceroy who states that the 'cost of a lost ship is the market value at which you could have sold it'.
Whilst in the RED corner we have DigitalCommunist who asserts that this doesn't take into account opportunity cost (however as he's too full of himself to respond to others this may be slightly inaccurate).
So we have a fight of realism vs. marketing babble. Thats at least as old as mankind - nothing to see here, move along 
(Incredible that the Eve forum filters the drug that rhymes with "smack", while what it should really do is filter things such as "oppurtunity cost" and replace it with a big buzzword warning label) 
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"At least freelancer keeps the physics realistic."
-- SINKFIST |
Thoris Levithar
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:28:00 -
[35]
With the words of a wise old man: "What counts in the end is the numbers in your wallet". Thats my stance :) speculation about what you COULD or SHOULD have bought/sold a ship for are nice and all, but what you actually spend is what counts.
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Temi
you lose isk by losing a ship??
last time i lost a ship i got a whole bunch of isk transfer to my wallet by your friendly insurance company...
Unless you buy or produce your ships about roughly 30% below material value, yes, you actually lost ISK. A lot. Think: Buy a new ship and having to fork over insurance premium again
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"At least freelancer keeps the physics realistic."
-- SINKFIST |
Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:39:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Blind Man on 23/06/2006 14:40:54
Originally by: Abdalion
The answer to this is definitely PINK.
incorrect, the answer is definitely
do.
(on topic) the cost of losing a ship is..
market cost + insurance cost + mods to fit + time to get the mods, - insurance payout - the amount of isk it made for me.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.06.23 14:58:00 -
[38]
I think the real question is, "who cares?"
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.06.23 15:00:00 -
[39]
Adn in te green corder: Me, who states that the cost of a ship lost is equivalent to the outcome fo the following:
(F(shiploss)- B(shipgain))/ (F(isk shipsellingonmarket)- (B(shipgain+ B(shiptransporttomarket))).
Or, in normal talk: the fun you get while losing the ship minus the boredom encountered in earning it as relative to the fun or use you get by selling the same ship on the market minus the boredom of both earning the ship and getting it to the market.
A hac doesn't cost 200m, it costs the boredom in earning it minus the fun in losing it. More often then not the outcome of that is negative, as in: you're doing great.
Adding relative opportunity cost to that means you need to relate that outcome to the outcome you'd have gotten if you'd moved and sold the ship and used the income for something else that gives you fun.
What does that mean ? Ships are worth only so much as they are worth to you due to the use you have for them.
Old blog |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 15:05:00 -
[40]
Originally by: HippoKing
For me the greatest cost is the time I spend getting a new one. I hate doing that
Me too. Thats basicly why i would pay a reasonable ransom. To save time.
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The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Olivin
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Posted - 2006.06.23 15:15:00 -
[41]
RED
Olivin
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13th
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Posted - 2006.06.23 16:30:00 -
[42]
The only true cost of any value is the pilot's time it took to afford & acquire the ship. Since eve is supposed to be a game, and time spent in a game should be entertaining you should end up with no loss at all. 
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.23 16:50:00 -
[43]
I don't lose the time I spent fitting the ship, unless most of the time was spent actually moving the modules onto it. Usually I note down the setup so I can use it again, so I didn't lose time designing the setup.
On the other hand, I lose market value of course.
The only time you don't lose market value is when you get an alliance-built ship or the like cheap which you aren't allowed to resell.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2006.06.23 17:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: DeathWarrior
Example :
I Buy a Nighthawk for 50million ISK, Nighthawks sell on market for 160+ or so.
Viceroy says that when I lose the ship I lose 160mil, which I think is incorrect because I would only lose the money I originally invested which was 50mil.
How Can I lose money I dont have?
You lost an asset worth 160m. You lost 160m.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
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Posted - 2006.06.23 18:01:00 -
[45]
I'm with Viceroy.
Losing a ship that you can sell for 200mil means you just lost something worth 200mil. If I mine the minerals for a BS and build it from a copy I got for free it doesn't mean I lose nothing when it goes pop.
It means I lost a ship worth 95-ish mil on the market. The fact that I didn't pay that actual amount has nothing to do with it.
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.06.23 18:04:00 -
[46]
I guess you could ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers.
I just look at my wallet.
If I buy a HAC it costs me 40mil
I can't sell it on, so there is no hidden value to me.
If I lose it, it will cost me 40mil to replace it.
Now, if someone kills me they may put a different value on that loss, but bottom line to me is 40mil, no matter what way you slice it.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Clementina
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Posted - 2006.06.23 19:02:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Avon
I guess you could ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers.
I just look at my wallet.
If I buy a HAC it costs me 40mil
I can't sell it on, so there is no hidden value to me.
If I lose it, it will cost me 40mil to replace it.
Now, if someone kills me they may put a different value on that loss, but bottom line to me is 40mil, no matter what way you slice it.
If your ship flying habits are being subsidized by somebody else, then you have to take into account how much your benefactor loses when you lose a ship. For instance for simplicity's sake, suppose your deal was even better! let's say you paid 0 isk for a HAC. Now when you bite the dust, you're probably going to requisition a new HAC. This new HAC will cost something to build, and could have been sold to some empire carebear for 200 million isk. Ergo, 200 million was lost, none of it by you, and 200 million of it by your benefactor.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.23 19:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Clementina
Originally by: Avon
I guess you could ask 10 different people and get 10 different answers.
I just look at my wallet.
If I buy a HAC it costs me 40mil
I can't sell it on, so there is no hidden value to me.
If I lose it, it will cost me 40mil to replace it.
Now, if someone kills me they may put a different value on that loss, but bottom line to me is 40mil, no matter what way you slice it.
If your ship flying habits are being subsidized by somebody else, then you have to take into account how much your benefactor loses when you lose a ship. For instance for simplicity's sake, suppose your deal was even better! let's say you paid 0 isk for a HAC. Now when you bite the dust, you're probably going to requisition a new HAC. This new HAC will cost something to build, and could have been sold to some empire carebear for 200 million isk. Ergo, 200 million was lost, none of it by you, and 200 million of it by your benefactor.
However, to the benefactor, Avon's effectiveness in PvP is worth more than 200 million per HAC.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II- |
Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.06.23 20:07:00 -
[49]
You only have one, market cost OR opportunity cost. In a way, both people are right, but the final decision comes to the person who lost the ship.
Example A: I buy a Deimos for 80m, I lose it when the market cost is 200m.
I have two options
1. Buy a new Deimos (Lose 200m)
2. Don't buy a new Deimos (Lose opportunities afforded by that Deimos.)
You choose which price you want to pay, whether it be ISK or opportunities.
________
Originally by: kieron
rabble, Rabble, RABBLE, RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!111elevenone
Sig certified HAC proof...woo for crappy puns |
wierchas noobhunter
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Posted - 2006.06.23 20:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/06/2006 13:31:46
If you are poor, you are blue. If you are rich, you are red.
lol
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arkarsk
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Posted - 2006.06.23 20:31:00 -
[51]
Some of you guys seriously need to take a Micro/Macro Econ 100 course....
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Antodias
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Posted - 2006.06.23 20:44:00 -
[52]
Tsk, what I find annoying is the typical viewpoint that Communists are evil and/or full of themselves.
Time for a history/sociology/politics lesson...
*Prepares*
I'll be back. 
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Your Name
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Posted - 2006.06.23 20:51:00 -
[53]
Lose a ship?
The ship is dust at that gateway, and the mods are all in that other guys cargo hold. I didn't lose anything, I know exactly where it is.......
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Lardarz B'stard
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Posted - 2006.06.23 20:55:00 -
[54]
Opportunity cost only comes into play if the action you were doing with the ship and the time spent thereon did not contribute to your wallet or assets. If you were using the ship to fly about looking for fights then there is probably no opportunity cost.
You also have to factor in the following variables:
Long term isk value of experience gained during the loss of ship which contributes to reduced risk of ship loss in future encounters. This experience may save you 5 apocs over a year perhaps.
Cost of time spent *****ing about buying new bits and pieces. This is why I tend to buy 3x what I ever actually need.
Whether your insurance was about to run out or not.
TBH you lose more money by spending time trying to work it out than by actually losing ships.
but, for the sake of it, I reckon its just whatever you paid for it, plus insurance, plus modules.
Exiles Recruitment |
Nike
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Posted - 2006.06.23 20:57:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Nike on 23/06/2006 20:57:17
Digi wins this round.
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Bosie
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Posted - 2006.06.23 21:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 23/06/2006 13:28:13
In the BLUE corner we have Viceroy who states that the 'cost of a lost ship is the market value at which you could have sold it'.
Whilst in the RED corner we have DigitalCommunist who asserts that this doesn't take into account opportunity cost (however as he's too full of himself to respond to others this may be slightly inaccurate).
*EDIT: Opportunity Cost: The cost of an alternative that must be forgone in order to pursue a certain action. Put another way, the benefits you could have received by taking an alternative action. *
Let the discussion commence ..
Neither, one or both. It's a personal issue.
Bosie.
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word,
which means more to me than any other.
That word is ENGLAND."
...Winston |
Nike
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Posted - 2006.06.23 21:09:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Arkanor
You only have one, market cost OR opportunity cost. In a way, both people are right, but the final decision comes to the person who lost the ship.
Example A: I buy a Deimos for 80m, I lose it when the market cost is 200m.
I have two options
1. Buy a new Deimos (Lose 200m)
2. Don't buy a new Deimos (Lose opportunities afforded by that Deimos.)
You choose which price you want to pay, whether it be ISK or opportunities.
Well. if you loose it then...
You loose the 80 mil you paied, the 120 mil you could have made by selling it, and the 200 mil you have to pay for new one. Total 400 mil.
By not buying the ship at all, youve earned 80 mil. 
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Olivin
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Posted - 2006.06.24 11:39:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Olivin on 24/06/2006 11:41:14
Originally by: Arkanor
You only have one, market cost OR opportunity cost. In a way, both people are right, but the final decision comes to the person who lost the ship.
Example A: I buy a Deimos for 80m, I lose it when the market cost is 200m.
I have two options
1. Buy a new Deimos (Lose 200m)
2. Don't buy a new Deimos (Lose opportunities afforded by that Deimos.)
You choose which price you want to pay, whether it be ISK or opportunities.
It's all wrong.
Blue corner: If you bought a Deimos for 80 mil, and loose it -- you lost 80mil cash ( purchase price) and 120 mil equity ( capital gain), because you could sell your Deimos for 200 mil, instead of loosing it. (By buying new Deimos you don't loose anything, unless market value changes after you bought it.)
Red corner: However, you should take on account at least an opportunity presented at the point of loss. Let's say, you were camping belts and used your Deimos to attack Chelm ( rare NPC), who suppose to drop 500mil worth of loot. But you didn't get this loot, because you lost your Deimos and now Chelm is gone. So, you lost 500mil or you lost an opportunity to make 500mil, which pretty much the same thing. This example is primitive ( PVP scenario will be a lot more costly and complex), but illustrative.
Bottom line: Digi is right and Viceroy is wrong.
Olivin
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Vanesa Garcia
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Posted - 2006.06.25 13:03:00 -
[59]
Probably Digi, so Blue corner.
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