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FFGR
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Posted - 2006.06.24 15:30:00 -
[61]
Domi with Railguns and Sentry drones(You need to refit for rails, sentries can come with your standard domi setup cause of the dronespace).
Also having to "stay away from 22km"... You know ... a scrambler ? That lil thing you need to keep the enemy sitting there and not to warp off.
If you want to try and kill a Domi's heavy drones with smartbombs you are welcomed ... it will be your doom, since your cap for tanking will run out even faster.
About not needing cap ... drones and proj don't need cap also 
I'm seriously bored of "nerf raven" threads and all the people against msl ships have never flown a single msl ship or launched a missile.
RAVEN IS IMBA !!! I HAVE NEVER FLOWN THIS SHIP AND IT'S IMBA ! NERF NERF NERF ! OVERPOWERED I TELL YOU !!!
Seriously now, the first thread is hilarious, the second too, after the 234652365623 thread with 0 proof it gets boring and irritating.
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siggys v. 0.5 |
Spiderweb
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Posted - 2006.06.24 15:42:00 -
[62]
Raven is one of the Best PVE ship for sure (I fly one)
It sucks pretty badly compared to many other BSs in PVP unless you use it to bring down Stationary targets like Capital ships or Stations. For solo PVP it must be the worst out there. For Fleet pvp it is again one of the worse.
Cant wait for tier 3 Caldari BS ^^
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We all live in a Yellow Submarine |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.06.24 15:55:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 24/06/2006 15:55:46
 Originally by: FFGR
Domi with Railguns and Sentry drones(You need to refit for rails, sentries can come with your standard domi setup cause of the dronespace).
Also having to "stay away from 22km"... You know ... a scrambler ? That lil thing you need to keep the enemy sitting there and not to warp off.
If you want to try and kill a Domi's heavy drones with smartbombs you are welcomed ... it will be your doom, since your cap for tanking will run out even faster.
About not needing cap ... drones and proj don't need cap also
I'm seriously bored of "nerf raven" threads and all the people against msl ships have never flown a single msl ship or launched a missile.
RAVEN IS IMBA !!! I HAVE NEVER FLOWN THIS SHIP AND IT'S IMBA ! NERF NERF NERF ! OVERPOWERED I TELL YOU !!!
Seriously now, the first thread is hilarious, the second too, after the 234652365623 thread with 0 proof it gets boring and irritating.
Ok first off did you not see me quote my torp damage on un-resisted EM shields? 600-800 damage 0% resistance.
Secondly, you're just not getting it. I don't know if it's because you're new or you're just slow. Dommy would have to dock and refit to use rails or to switch to close range. A raven doesn't. I don't know if you know how important it is to have a setup that requires you to be more hybrid (Meaning a setup good for all setups) or not. I'm going to take a stab and say not.
Cap? Did you not read the other posts. Cap injector is a must for a Raven in almost all cases. Armor repping is slow compared to Shield tanking. Shield tanking consume more cap thus Cap injectors completly boost it even more. Not to mention how easily a Raven can tank great with just 3 modules compared to 2 large reps, 3 hardners/2hardners with a cap injector.
Ever try shooting a Raven with Rails? Projectiles even solo. Ever tried doing the same to armor tanks? It's not as effective as short range (Blasters/Autocannons). Again I stress Raven can go both long and short range. Long range with a tackler, short range with disruptor. It doesn't need to dock. Maybe I'm just not being clear enough for you to understand this.
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Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates
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FFGR
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Posted - 2006.06.24 15:57:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Spiderweb
Raven is one of the Best PVE ship for sure (I fly one)
It sucks pretty badly compared to many other BSs in PVP unless you use it to bring down Stationary targets like Capital ships or Stations. For solo PVP it must be the worst out there. For Fleet pvp it is again one of the worse.
Cant wait for tier 3 Caldari BS ^^
nah, solo is so and so (cause you need to be within atleast 20km), but other BS will have a speed mod most of the time and will run away if the battle isn't going towards their favor (assuming both are fitted for PvP).
In fleetfights it's worse than all the other BS and together with the domi and typhoon are the 3 worst BS to have in a fleet.
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siggys v. 0.5 |
Arcadia1701
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Posted - 2006.06.24 17:33:00 -
[65]
lol begin the 109043894 * i got pwned by a raven cause im a noob so nerf it now!!!11* thread. If u want overpowered, try a vamping EW domi, then get bak to me.
The raven in 0.0 PvP and wars, is rather useless, in missions, its great.
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Yuleth Gix
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Posted - 2006.06.24 17:49:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Yuleth Gix on 24/06/2006 17:51:34
Seriously guys.... Raven Overpowered? In what????
I'm sorry, I can't take this thread even remotely seroiusly, as after spending several Million SP in missiles I had to go Gunnery for PVP anyway...
Target - 10s
Missiles flight time - 45s
Aligned BS Warping off - 1s
I challenge any serious Raven pilot to say he doesn't regularly get on killmails where he did 0 damage.
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2006.06.24 18:33:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
My fully trained missile ***** ass does 650dps with a Raven and 3 bcu II, that is counting the 5% launcher rate of fire implant. Nerf me please, I almost do as much DPS as a Deimos.
you forget that you can tank while doing that? 
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2006.06.24 18:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Aramendel
Well, a raven attacking you from 50 km+ is usually not really a danger, too. It can force you to warp out, yes, but it cannot really kill you unless it has tacklers. If ECM would be brought back to the mortal plane the raven would be pretty balanced for PvP.
So what are you saying, that other ships can tackle at 50km and are better then raven? If you say so...
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.06.24 19:16:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 24/06/2006 19:16:17
Originally by: Yuleth Gix
Edited by: Yuleth Gix on 24/06/2006 17:51:34
Seriously guys.... Raven Overpowered? In what????
I'm sorry, I can't take this thread even remotely seroiusly, as after spending several Million SP in missiles I had to go Gunnery for PVP anyway...
Target - 10s
Missiles flight time - 45s
Aligned BS Warping off - 1s
I challenge any serious Raven pilot to say he doesn't regularly get on killmails where he did 0 damage.
I challenge your geddon/apocalypse vs my Raven. See who pops first.
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Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates
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ChalSto
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Posted - 2006.06.24 20:01:00 -
[70]
Raven isnt overpowerd. It can not tackle, sniping? (lol), mobile? (more lol).
But ONE point i want to make clear now to all the caldari-pilots with the "zomg....missiles-flight-time" arguement ->
S T F U -> Raven missile to reach taget from 40km > 6-7s
Bthorn flight-time (omg.....I have to fly MY WHOLE **** DAMN SHIP TO THE TARGET)-> 50-60s
Kthxnxtbye 
Current Location: Relax and drinking a beer with Dreez and waiting for Blaster changes UPDATE -> Still waiting... |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.06.24 22:33:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Luc Boye
Originally by: Jim Raynor
My fully trained missile ***** ass does 650dps with a Raven and 3 bcu II, that is counting the 5% launcher rate of fire implant. Nerf me please, I almost do as much DPS as a Deimos.
you forget that you can tank while doing that?
Abd there's your problem, in a nutshell. The Raven can do average DPS and maintain a tank. Every othe BS gets a choice to do average DPS and maintain a tank OR do MORE damage and NOT tank.
Overpowered? The Raven and missile use in general is a zero choice environment - as follows;
We get ONE launcher in each class - all turret clases get at least THREE choices with varying stats.
We get ONE damage modifying module for low slots, and our Tech 2 version required hellish CPU to fit - all turret tech II damage mods require THE SAME FITTING as their Tech I equivalents! Turret users also get low slot tracking modifiers.
We get NO midslot missile modifiers - turret users get tracking computers.
It is only VERY recently that ANY missile implants were introduced...and they are MANY times rarer than their turret counterparts, and so MANY times more expensive. Even then, we do not have the capacity to "double up" damage implants. Why? Because we don't GET a missile specific damage increasing implant AND a generic "All missile" damage increasing implant. We don't get a damage implant at all! We only get Rate of Fire. Turret users get overall damage, size specific damage AND Rate of Fire.
Tell me again about this horrendously overpowered ship?
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Gorgons
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Posted - 2006.06.24 22:46:00 -
[72]
Originally by: ChalSto
Raven isnt overpowerd. It can not tackle, sniping? (lol), mobile? (more lol).
But ONE point i want to make clear now to all the caldari-pilots with the "zomg....missiles-flight-time" arguement ->
S T F U -> Raven missile to reach taget from 40km > 6-7s
Bthorn flight-time (omg.....I have to fly MY WHOLE **** DAMN SHIP TO THE TARGET)-> 50-60s
Kthxnxtbye
OR
you could smack some 425mm on that baby, and your "OMG move my entire ship sux0r" argument falls to the ground
because then Bthorn "flight-time" for 40-50 km -> 0.00012353 sec
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It says Snippy.
E-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM
OMG! what does it say... |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.06.24 22:56:00 -
[73]
Cheers Gorgons, for backing up my argument. Every other BS has a CHOICE. Raven has none. Missile patch has reduced choice still further (hardly ANYONE uses Torps any more - check out the price of Arbalest Torp launchers (a.k.a. cheapest best named large weapon system in EVE) if you don't believe me).
The Raven is boring to fly (and I fly one, I admit). You fit six launchers (choice of two types). You put your tank in medium slots, which leaves you normally ONE free for variation. You have three BCS's and two PDS's in lows.
Cool. An entire ship fitted and your single choice for fitout comes down to "what shall I put in that medium slot?".
So here's my challenge. Nerf the Raven's tank. Nerf it to hell if you like. But in return give us two new medium slot modules:
One that will increase damage from missiles
One that will restore the tank, but reduce damage from missiles (or rate of fire, either way I don't care)
If you like, make shield boosting modules have higher fitting requirements, and give us OTHER launchers, that are LOWER fitting requirements, and subsequently lower damage - or increase explosion radius.
In short, give us the CHOICE that every other BS pilot currently enjoys.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Red Ochre
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:04:00 -
[74]
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Synapse Archae
Lastly I want to point out, if the raven isnt overpowered, then why does EVERYONE pilot one?
If everyone flies one, why does it sound like you're totally clueless about it?
?? you call the op clueless? re-read the thread and then re-read your own statement hero |
Mogrin
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:10:00 -
[75]
Is this the thread that all noobs are required to post in??
If so, reporting for duty!
Seriously though. Optimal range and turret tracking.
Thats the only reason ravens are so numerous.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:22:00 -
[76]
I really did just feel like pointing at the OP's post and laughing...but just in case someone actually BELIEVES this crap...
Quote:
The facts are the raven can ecm and still deal more dammage than the scorpion
Only if the Scorpion pilot has bare minimum gunnery skills. And you are neglecting that the Raven doesn't ECM half as good as the Scorp. Quote:
It can deal as much damame as any other BS
Plain and simple, no, it can't. Quote:
and it can vary the dammage types in a way that only minmatar can
but in general if you are carrying four types of torps, you're not going to last very long in an engagement. And I'd actually PREFER to do a couple of typs of damage rather than just ONE. Quote:
It can fire at any range from 0 to 200km without any loss in damage, something no one else can do
Target warps out in the intervening 40 seconds, loss of damage = 100%. Defenders, even though lamentably borked, WILL destroy inbound missiles from 200km away. That's something that you can't do against anything OTHER than missiles. Quote:
It can tank and fire all its guns at the same time, which only the minmatar can do, amarrian lasers costing too much cap.
This must be a skills thing again...I don't find my Apoc running low on CAP when constantly firing the lasers. Quote:
The raven is virtually unaffected by ship size or speed
Biggest single piece of crap in this post (and that's saying something). Damage reduction to a Torp hit on an Interceptor is over 95% due to combination of sig radius and speed. Quote:
Transversal velocity doesnt bother it
Correct, because plain ol' velocity in any direction DOES. Quote:
Cruise missiles maintain enough dammage, when spammed from 6 launchers to worry most or all frigate pilots
I assume you mean "frigate pilots who are already down to hull" - any cruiser is more of a threat to a frigate than a Raven and it's oversized missiles are Quote:
and theres a skill that makes them deal more damage
in the same way that there's a skill that makes your guns track them better - but your skill doesn't say "all guns except the biggest ones", whereas our skill has no effect on Torps.
The rest of the post is just more JUNK based on the above fatally flawed perceptions.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Frakri Hogsto
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:28:00 -
[77]
raven sux and its boring..
I would happily swap my caldari spec char for any other
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What you gonna do, when I come for yoU?!
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Posted - 2006.06.24 23:30:00 -
[78]
Woohoo another i hate Raven thread.
I think it's safe to say that after 3 pages of arguing most people are clueless about this topic because they do not speak from experience, hence can only comment about one side of the arguement.
I fly the Raven i know it's advantages and disadvantages, i don't comment on the Domi, Tempest or Arma because i don't fly them.
Frankly if you dont have Caldari BS trained you should not be commenting on nerfing of a ship you have no clue about.
PvE - honestly, why do you care that some carebear is making money with half assed skills in his n00b Raven? Thing's should not be balanced around PvE.
PvP - Raven is a close range ship, ya it can fire up to 200km, but so what?
In PVP you need things like scram, web, sensor booster etc... If you use a shiled tank with a cap injector and no sensor booster you are virtually useless to your teamates and very succeptable to jamming (due to poor lock time). Without a cap injector my tank with max skills in eng. can last 59 seconds.
Jammers(60km optimal) + armor tank(weak)=pwn. Wow look the only ship out there that can field ECM and an armor tank...oh wait.
Yes, it can field more multis than most other BS, but tbh, this combo is NOT used often. Why? Because in PvP the top 3 BS are Mega, Arma, Tempest/Apoc (yeah i'm not counting the Domi which is closing on the top spot).
With an Armor tank Raven does **** poor damage and if you are gonna fit that many jammers might as well go with the Scorp.
Varying damage type is not as much of an advantage as one might think mainly because you have no idea which ship you are going to come across or what kind of tank he will have.
So, is the Raven overpowered, no. Does it have it's advantages, yes (no tracking being the main one i think).
People bashing Tux are completely clueless, and frankly pretty disrespectful. If there is an obvious flaw with the Raven he will fix it.
(defender missiles coming soon)
(fyi most Ravens do not fly solo, so no point in using your godly test server experience which does not mirror TQ).
Flame away you clueless bastards.
Caldari - BS idea |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.25 18:45:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Not to mention how easily a Raven can tank great with just 3 modules compared to 2 large reps, 3 hardners/2hardners with a cap injector.
You might want to fit a booster too Fam.
3 hardeners, injectors, and XL Booster (hello fitting nightmare). Enjoy that last slot for all your ecm/tackling needs. Don't forget the PDUs and CPUs you *will* be fitting to get those Seige IIs to fit.
Your arguement for it being able to do both longrange and short range is dead in the water the second you mention the Raven needing support to fight long range. If the Raven is alone, long range is not going to happen, period.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.06.25 19:50:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Not to mention how easily a Raven can tank great with just 3 modules compared to 2 large reps, 3 hardners/2hardners with a cap injector.
You might want to fit a booster too Fam.
3 hardeners, injectors, and XL Booster (hello fitting nightmare). Enjoy that last slot for all your ecm/tackling needs. Don't forget the PDUs and CPUs you *will* be fitting to get those Seige IIs to fit.
Your arguement for it being able to do both longrange and short range is dead in the water the second you mention the Raven needing support to fight long range. If the Raven is alone, long range is not going to happen, period.
If megathron is long range, it will die short range and long range is still not going to happen, so what's the point exactly?
And you need 1x cpu(dg) and 1x rcu to fit biggest and meanest t2 tank while still have enough cpu to fit biggest weapons, med nosfs on remaining slots and 3x bcuII.
Now show me what other ship can do it... apart from****a/sleipnir and cerb/nighthawk.
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Dead already? |
Frakri Hogsto
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Posted - 2006.06.25 19:57:00 -
[81]
reading this tread a song by Justin Timerlake suddenly playing in my head, I'm sure you can all gues what song it is
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What you gonna do, when I come for yoU?!
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:01:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
PvE - honestly, why do you care that some carebear is making money with half assed skills in his n00b Raven? Thing's should not be balanced around PvE.
I have Caldari BS 4 and Torps 5 and spec so I will comment as someone who knows a bit what they are talking about. While I agree with most of what you say about PvP I think you really miss some key aspecs of EVE by blanketing PvE as mere isk making.
The tech 2 market is most certainly PvP even if you never fire a single shell or missile at another player. It is the rat race to own player exclusive blueprints that can make empires out of small corporations, monopolies and price gauging that will directly effect PvP in many ways good and bad.
So when I say the Raven needs to be nerfed for PvE it most certainly is because it can give PvP a distiguishable advantage to people who umbrella one ship, weapon and tanking type.
Sorry... Missions must be ballanced for ALL ship classes not just let whomever has a raven have clear advantages. Now how it gets ballanced... its not my problem and I'd rather not see a nerf to it directly but in how NPCs deal with missiles.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Paigan
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:02:00 -
[83]
I'm a Raven Pilot myself.
And i say it's overpowered as well.
Turrets and (T1) missiles are only balanced if turrets are T2, this cannot be.
But as Tuxford showed very well in his blaster stuff thread, weapon balance is obviously only done at a "everything at V and Tech2" level, where things seem in deed quite balanced.
--
This game is still in beta stage |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:05:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Frakri Hogsto
reading this tread a song by Justin Timerlake suddenly playing in my head, I'm sure you can all gues what song it is
Oh, if only this link worked 
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:05:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Frakri Hogsto
reading this tread a song by Justin Timerlake suddenly playing in my head, I'm sure you can all gues what song it is
Aren't you the one that wants to sell caldari char? :P
I have one, so no thanks.
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Dead already? |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:06:00 -
[86]
I can tell you that this character is heavily Caldari specced. Raven overpowered? Yea, right. The day when I get to see Raven is useful in mid-size to large gang is when I get BS 9.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:14:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 25/06/2006 20:15:30
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I can tell you that this character is heavily Caldari specced. Raven overpowered? Yea, right. The day when I get to see Raven is useful in mid-size to large gang is when I get BS 9.
... that's already better than close range turret battleships in engagements of any size. But you don't care, do you o.-
NB.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:23:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 25/06/2006 20:15:30
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I can tell you that this character is heavily Caldari specced. Raven overpowered? Yea, right. The day when I get to see Raven is useful in mid-size to large gang is when I get BS 9.
... that's already better than close range turret battleships in engagements of any size. But you don't care, do you o.-
NB.
Lets not derail too much. Back to topic, does it make it overpowered because it is different?
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Lets not derail too much. Back to topic, does it make it overpowered because it is different?
No. But we'll have a few problems if we have to list the irrelevant reasons for the raven not to be overpowered, including bald me being pretty.
NB.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:48:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Lets not derail too much. Back to topic, does it make it overpowered because it is different?
No. But we'll have a few problems if we have to list the irrelevant reasons for the raven not to be overpowered, including bald me being pretty.
NB.
Think we can also list Domi for nerfing. Some ships are just victims of mods. Tempest, overpowered? Dont think so. Only gets imbalanced because of T2 ammos giving it 200km shoot, run and farming cruiser and frigate killmails. Might as well list me pretty being ebil.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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