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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.06.27 07:18:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: Lorth
Missiles at least do some damage to frigs though. Large turrets do nothing at the tackling range of intys. I would gladly trade some damage for no damage in ranges that matter.
Damn it Lorth, you do this EVERY time. Yes, large missile do SOME damage to frigs - but then you go on to complain about Inty's, which are the ONE ship in this game that can OUTRUN missiles! WE don't hit them AT ALL!
And anyway, do you often find that Interceptors magically appear at their tackling range? If so, I suggest you look at how you warp in to combat, and suggest you take a friend or two to cut them down - yes, of course the Raven can do the same - but in a two vs two, the Raven is going to get wiped off the planet very quickly indeed.
Originally by: Lorth
Sure you can set up with double web and painters to kill frigs at close range with large guns. But the raven is also able to fit such specilized fitting as well.
Raven = Shield tanker. Double web and painter = half med slots gone required for tank = poor tank = Dead Raven.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.27 07:21:00 -
[152]
IMHO, if anyone thinks something is overpowered, they can go train it. Adapt and train for the Raven or cry.
/me goes train for Tempest. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.06.27 07:25:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Mo Steel
A heavy nos and 5 light or medium drones will ruin any frigate. 24 damage per missile to inty's isn't exactly brutal either.
This statement is part of the problem. Ask the question "How much does your large turret hit an Inty for?", and the answer is "It depends"; it depends on the behaviour of the target, the fitting of the firing ship and the unknown random factor that is the "glancing/wrecking" equation. That makes it hard to judge the outcome of a combat.
Ask the question "How much does a large missile hit an Inty for?" and the answer is "24". It doesn't change that much if the Inty is stationary, or how the firing ship is fitted (because hardly anything affects missile damage).
I'm assuming in the above that both firing players have maxed or close to maxed skills in gunnery or missiles as appropriate.
And I'll admit it is a simplification - but not by that much. If the variation in turret damage is THIS wide;
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Then the variation in missile damage is only THIS wide;
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Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Mo Steel
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Posted - 2006.06.27 11:32:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Mo Steel
What ship do you use primarily? I'm fairly certain just about any of the BSes can fit as many drones as the Raven or more.
A heavy nos and 5 light or medium drones will ruin any frigate. 24 damage per missile to inty's isn't exactly brutal either.
Your point exactly is? Everyship can fit drones, and there is no ship that can not fit multipule waves of light drones. That fact doesn't change the BS vs Frig balance between the Raven and any other BS, since they are all equally capable.
So then why are you complaining about the Raven's anti-frigate capabilities when you just stated they are all equally capable?
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Mo Steel
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Posted - 2006.06.27 11:35:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Mo Steel
A heavy nos and 5 light or medium drones will ruin any frigate. 24 damage per missile to inty's isn't exactly brutal either.
This statement is part of the problem. Ask the question "How much does your large turret hit an Inty for?", and the answer is "It depends"; it depends on the behaviour of the target, the fitting of the firing ship and the unknown random factor that is the "glancing/wrecking" equation. That makes it hard to judge the outcome of a combat.
Ask the question "How much does a large missile hit an Inty for?" and the answer is "24". It doesn't change that much if the Inty is stationary, or how the firing ship is fitted (because hardly anything affects missile damage).
I'm assuming in the above that both firing players have maxed or close to maxed skills in gunnery or missiles as appropriate.
And I'll admit it is a simplification - but not by that much. If the variation in turret damage is THIS wide;
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Then the variation in missile damage is only THIS wide;
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Correct - The price of the larger variation is that missiles do consistant low damage, whereas turrets have a chance of wrecking or missing.
I believe that's called "gameplay diversity", because it gives the playerbase an option asto how they choose to deal with a target.
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Sal Alo
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Posted - 2006.06.27 13:19:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Sal Alo on 27/06/2006 13:20:42
Raven pilot has no optimal range trouble, ignores trasversal velocity, doesn't use cap, damage type selection, can sniper from a very long distance and can come to close combat without penalty with the same setup, he uses the same kind of missiles launcher for 2 types of missiles (let me to say Large and Larger missile).
Let's see the Tempest pilot.
He has an optimal range, if he ignores trasversal velocity he can't hit, he doesn't use cap as well, damage type selection as well, can sniper with artilleries but if the enemy comes a little closer (under 25km artys don't hit), he has to change his setup for close combat and if he uses autocannons he will hit nothing more far than 15km, he haven't a "larger" ammo, something like torps.
I don't know if raven needs a downgrade (I think downgrade is ever wrong, it is the others to have to be upgraded) but tempest pilots are really playing eve in NIGHTMARE mode
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.06.27 13:31:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Sal Alo
Edited by: Sal Alo on 27/06/2006 13:20:42
Raven pilot has no optimal range trouble, ignores trasversal velocity, doesn't use cap, damage type selection, can sniper from a very long distance and can come to close combat without penalty with the same setup, he uses the same kind of missiles launcher for 2 types of missiles (let me to say Large and Larger missile).
same kind of missile launcher for 2 types od missiles ? how ?
if your spike charge will travel 20 sec to reach that target you snipe 200km away, I bet you'll be happier close range ... sure transversal does not matter ... because travel velocity in ANY direction does
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if you want peace, prepare for war ...
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well |
Laboratus
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Posted - 2006.06.27 13:44:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
same kind of missile launcher for 2 types od missiles ? how ?
Tech 2 missiles. percision for smaller ships, t1s for same size class ships or just rages with TP. And Rages for bigger ships
Quote:
sure transversal does not matter ... because travel velocity in ANY direction does
Well true. Kinda. If I want to get say 50% damage reduction from a missile with an explosive velocity of, say 1000m/s I gotto have a velocity of 2240 (source).
If I want to get a reduction to turret dps, all I have to get (in BS guns) is a trasversal of 0+. Everything starts effecting the damage drastically...
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.06.27 13:54:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Laboratus
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
same kind of missile launcher for 2 types od missiles ? how ?
Tech 2 missiles. percision for smaller ships, t1s for same size class ships or just rages with TP. And Rages for bigger ships
Quote:
sure transversal does not matter ... because travel velocity in ANY direction does
Well true. Kinda. If I want to get say 50% damage reduction from a missile with an explosive velocity of, say 1000m/s I gotto have a velocity of 2240 (source).
If I want to get a reduction to turret dps, all I have to get (in BS guns) is a trasversal of 0+. Everything starts effecting the damage drastically...
T2 ammo is a joke excuse ... there are already threads to remove/change it ... but expanding on that, missile variation in t1 only affects damage type, turret ammo trades range for damage/damage type/cap usage ...
for the transcersal, you forgot that you need to be rasonably close for that to work :-)
the missile reduction is sig radius*velocity btw ... but that was discused to death already.
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if you want peace, prepare for war ...
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.27 14:05:00 -
[160]
If you want to talk about balance. Fit T1/named gears and go PvP in the Raven. Raven with torps can never beat a T1/named Domi. The Raven is a horrible PvP ship. Please dont flog it to death.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.06.27 14:18:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
If you want to talk about balance. Fit T1/named gears and go PvP in the Raven. Raven with torps can never beat a T1/named Domi. The Raven is a horrible PvP ship. Please dont flog it to death.
Sure it can, why wouldn't it?
Nos/Blaster Tank Dommy vs ECM Tech 1 Raven = Chances are Raven
Nos/Blaster Tank ECM Dommy vs Shield Tank Tech 1 Raven = Chances are Dommy
Nos/Tank Dommy vs Long Range Raven = Chances are Raven
I mean there are a number of setups that can beat a dommy in a Raven. Think before posting. Dommy isn't invuln to EW.
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Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates
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Laboratus
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Posted - 2006.06.27 14:22:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
T2 ammo is a joke excuse ... there are already threads to remove/change it ... but expanding on that, missile variation in t1 only affects damage type, turret ammo trades range for damage/damage type/cap usage ...
for the transcersal, you forgot that you need to be rasonably close for that to work :-)
Well, if you are being shot with t2 ammo, with the 0.25 multiplyer to tracking, being inside 150kms, starts to effect it in a meaningful fashion, and if you have looked at the turret charts, it allways affect the hit chance to some degree. At best you usually get a 90% hit chance.
Quote:
the missile reduction is sig radius*velocity btw ... but that was discused to death already.
True. Also the possibility to hit a target with guns is effected by sig radius and transvectral.
But this has already been talked to the death.
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Zekks MarKeys
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:29:00 -
[163]
U know its overpowered when these guys are flying it http://udie.eve-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=186584
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Dixon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.09 04:38:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Zekks MarKeys
U know its overpowered when these guys are flying it http://udie.eve-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=186584
... why did you do this? WHY!!!!#!4i21h42798 y2198421784 gqe saguy ouz<d7 sdpuiod nhuy8 gsdoshbsgo isjmf98szdy h9siu
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I have no strong feelings one way or the other... |
Yunor
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.09.09 10:23:00 -
[165]
There is only one answer to this!
9/10 ships are overpowerd with a skilled pilot in it and the right sp's......
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Pesadel0
Vagabundos
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Posted - 2006.09.09 10:49:00 -
[166]
The raven should loose her drone bay .
Fixed.
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Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:01:00 -
[167]
Everyone flies a raven?? wtf u on everyone flies domis these days and neither are overpowered.
- Gob
[IXC] Admiral Goberius |
The Doct0r
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:36:00 -
[168]
The Raven isn't the problem - It's the weapons that are!!
Bring in a viable counter to missiles and the problem is solved.
Most people would agree that defenders are useless!! Get rid of them and employ a module that actually works.
Problem solved 
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Always ready to perform!!!! *cough*
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Always back up comments with hard facts |
Harris
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:51:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Caldari have hte best attributes (or used to)
That's why you see soo many.
I'm sure that has sweet F-A to do with it.
The choice of ship you fly has nothing to do with your race, remember.
I've only picked caldari 'toons' because they look more 'normal' to me, not for any ship reason.
My alt flew a kestrel in earlier missions purely because I had the frig skill, maybe people do continue to follow caldari ships because of that, but I prefered guns over missiles so took that path, he's a caldari character but only fly's gallente now. Never climbed into a scorp or Raven yet.
I didnt know anything about attributes when I created him, I just followed the schools path and got what I thought were the most useful skills at the start.
Might try it one day to see what the fuss is about but they'll be nerfed before then which is why I have resisted so far.
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Harris
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Posted - 2006.09.09 11:55:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
If you want to talk about balance. Fit T1/named gears and go PvP in the Raven. Raven with torps can never beat a T1/named Domi. The Raven is a horrible PvP ship. Please dont flog it to death.
Best sig I've seen yet Jenny. 
I agree you hit the nail on the head there, Raven is a niche ship (missions). It can be used for PvP but there are better options. That applies to every situation out there in fact. No one ship is uber at everything.
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Colonel Volgin
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Posted - 2006.09.09 13:52:00 -
[171]
Euhm, Raven is outsniped at 200km, raven is outganked shortrange, Raven lacks slots to tank and have speedmod/web/scramble, fitting problems, low scan res, slow, high sig res etcetc. T2 javelin torps are good, rages need too much painting(nerf void, conflag) t1 are slow and bad(base expl radius 400m means you get dmg reduction versus half of the BSes), t2 cruise precision was hit by the nerfbat.
But... at least it gets good torp range, has slots for ecm(hallo, nerf) and can choose dmg types. Wow Raven is soo megauber::: Jack of all trades, master of none?
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viuva
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:25:00 -
[172]
raven :
best in pve
avarage for small gangs
1 vs 1 sucks ( tank or die )
snipping sucks
sucks on fleets
Great i rule doing mission good for me...
i forgot raven also rules running away ( i can tank and fitt 5 stabs )
IS THAT OVERPOWER ???
give me 125 m3 drone bay / 8 mid slots / more cpu
then you can call me whatever you want
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MECTO
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:29:00 -
[173]
necro.  but not that big one
anyway, ravens - die with kali
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford
In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:36:00 -
[174]
Originally by: MECTO
necro. but not that big one
anyway, ravens - die with kali
Disagree. Ravens are still very capable ships, within their limitations. A T2 fitted torp raven is still a very potent BS killer.
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Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.10.26 12:49:00 -
[175]
Double necro FTL, this thread was started the 24/06/2006 ... ressurected once in september ... and twice now ...
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