"We didn't want to gank those miners anyway"

Dude, come the **** on...

How about you go look at minerbumping.com for your evidence......

For a diplomat you sure are poor at getting your own politicians in line. Your glorious leader of the revolution just posted a gleeful post about agents popping a 1 month old charachter in a venture, with the agent then following the person into Star Craft 2 to grief them there some more.

As stated above, if the permit would actually mean anything, you could really grow CODE into something.

A concept I've wondered about once or twice too.

If CODE actually attempted to provide some form of protection to it's permit holders, as well as immunity to CODE pilot ganks, then it would add a ton of legitimacy to the organization and give it more of a tough-love/educational vibe rather than purely a ganky one.

The point of the Code is to get people to actually play Eve instead of letting their computer play it for them, those people were actually playing Eve. We had some fun banter with them in local flew around each other in the ice belt and all in all everyone had a more exciting and interesting night than they would have otherwise. We created content for the whole system that night. If you don't think that's a victory for the New Order then I think you've misunderstood something.

I think it would remove legitimacy from the organization. If you read James's manifesto it essentially describes a long term hazard to the game if an ISK faucet is allowed to be tapped more or less afk. The speculation about the market may be a bit of exaggerated doom and gloom but I think the concern that afk farming breeds a culture of entitlement isn't far off the mark.

Right now there is a heated debate in many corners about hisec ganking and griefing. What comes as part of these arguments is a debate on how insulated or connected a hisec pilot should be to the hazards of his environment. Should resources be contested? My belief is "always, yes". And if CODE is Darwinism for miners who don't care to be forewarned and forearmed about dangers, or even for me if I'm feeling particularly lazy or uncreative, then so be it.

It would be disingenuous to turn the manifesto into a protection racket (which it's not because James doesn't need the money).

^^In times of strikes, a labor union turns into a protection racket.. turning hostile to employees who don't belong. Outside of a strike a labor union provides protection from external entities (ie, the employer).

Labor unions typically aren't meritocracies and are more socialist (protect the group as a whole) in their application than free market (business and labor entities make their own choices).

I don't think the analogy applies at all.

If mining is not an ISK faucet, what would it be.. a sink?

I would less likely buy a permit from code than get in a cage with Siegfried and Roy's tiger whilst wearing a bacon suit.
I do not recognise you law or your self proclaimed authority.
You cannot own high sec any more than you can own the sky.
I don't care what lists I'm on or off for i am a free man and bend my knee to no one, least of all some morally bankrupt psychopaths.
I mine where I want, I hack where I want, I go wherever I choose in this galaxy.
You can kill me, if you can catch me.
Good luck!

P.s. thanks for the content!

^^In times of strikes, a labor union turns into a protection racket.. turning hostile to employees who don't belong. Outside of a strike a labor union provides protection from external entities (ie, the employer).

Labor unions typically aren't meritocracies and are more socialist (protect the group as a whole) in their application than free market (business and labor entities make their own choices).

I don't think the analogy applies at all.

If mining is not an ISK faucet, what would it be.. a sink?

^^ ok, I stand corrected.

Mineral inflation on the other hand...

Just wait till Crius, oh boy oh boy oh boy

The point of the Code is to get people to actually play Eve instead of letting their computer play it for them, those people were actually playing Eve. We had some fun banter with them in local flew around each other in the ice belt and all in all everyone had a more exciting and interesting night than they would have otherwise. We created content for the whole system that night. If you don't think that's a victory for the New Order then I think you've misunderstood something.

One month old character dies? OH NO! STOP THE PRESSES! They targeted that player because he was streaming. They didn't gank him in a starter system, and as you said, he had been playing the game for a month. Hardly an example of deliberately targeting new players.

That didn't hit the point behind New Order at all. The point of an extortion scheme is to make money, not to 'impose order'. Obviously anyone involved in the scheme is going to vocally support it.

That being said, I don't mine and am not in high sec, so if New Order can get away with this kind of scam, go right ahead, just don't pretend it isn't a scam.

I haven't made money ganking for the New Order, I occasionally get lucky with loot drops which offsets costs, but I'm certainly not making money. The vast majority of New Order agents are the same.

I'm sorry? When did a schism take place within the hallowed gardens of the Code that denoted streaming as a violation of your sanctimonious bible of new HighSec? Does James315's HighSec extend to StarCraft 2?

These new orders from our most hallowed leader must be studied and observed!

It would be interesting, content-wise, to read a new testament on minerbumping.com as to how James315 has now incorporated these new commandments into the Eve Mormon faith.

Do the words "publicity stunt" mean anything to you?


Keep in mind that some gankers don't ask for ship reimbursements on their catalysts. I didn't while I was in NODD. Its pretty difficult to turn a profit that way because of how rare good drops are off of mining ships. The gankers that do get reimbursements make around 10 mill per gank between module drops and blue loot. This translates into 20-40 million an hour, usually on the lower end of that unless they're in a really active system.

Fleet ganks (orcas and freighters, or smartbomb ganks) have no isk effect on the gankers in them except for whoever runs the fleet. All profits are rolled into more gank ships, and the number of empty freighters we gank keeps us from profiting too much. Usually there's five or so empty freighters (1-2 bill in gank ships lost), and then one that drops a bunch of loot to pay for the next 5-10 ganks. Since joining the new order I'm down around 1.5 billion between my own catalysts, an orca for transporting, and helping finance a smartbomb gank that I wasn't involved in. My net profits from ganking are around 5 mill because I'm not usually the one to scoop loot.

Anecdotal examples are argumentative fallacies. One of them does not make it a valid point on the Order as a whole.

As regards letting the computer play..... how about the Code go ganks people multiboxing Tengu or Bomber fleets. If that's not a prime example of letting the computer play, I don't know what is. If the holy aim of the group is to 'stop letting the computer play', then why is a reason for ganking in your Code Violation emails not having a bumpersticker denoting adherence to the Code?

CODE is of course free to gank whomever they want, but this holier than thou 'Crusade' as the saviour of Eve is starting look exceedingly like old fashioned trolling with a very disingenuous veneer of 'making eve better'.

I've recently been in contact with the CODE diplomats, asking where I can report actual bot miners (you across them in belts quite often) in groups of alts with the same name, but nothing ever comes back other than the CODE faq channel, which is a vacuum. It's suggested 'people are listening' there. If the RP and Content side of CODE where the least bit sincere, one would be wise to take such things seriously: that way one would actually feel useful scouting out botters for you guys and genuinely make eve better.

Be that as it may, mining is HELLA dull. When you're scanning, you have multiple screens up and are looking at data: this is not letting the computer play of course, so your statement does not ring true, again.

I realize this is of course just a fart in the wind. I'm slowly turning to the opinion that your content is just trolling, which is viable in New Eden.

So let me finish with: take yourselves more serious, and really get into the reporting and offing of true bot miners. Not just the people scanning or the people who are a month old.

Just understand CODE's "concern" over AFK gameplay is just politicking for their own playstyle. You will never see them actually advocate for specific improvements to the game that would eliminate or reduce afk mining. That would destroy them. It's the same thing with all the "bot aspirant" behavior; you can't "aspire" to bot; you wither use botting software or don't. It's just a way of implying that their targets are borderline rule-breakers to gain advantage in the forum wars.

If you see actual bots, report them to CCP yourself, directly. CODE has no need, no responsibility, and no authority to get involved in the process, and don't actually care. All they're doing is trying to protect their playstyle from imagined potential nerfs, because they, like most highsec criminals, love correlation/causation fallacy and *** hoc ergo propter hoc errors, and imagine that "carebear whining" is what causes nerfs. It has never once occurred to these people that CCP might actually care about the long-term health of the game, despite the fact that it pays CCP's bills.

I think a month is enough to get familiar with the gist of hisec mining hazards. I was clueless about the danger for a couple weeks but it's pretty hard to ignore a growing body of information..

Just got ganked by these guys. Here's how it happened...

- No convo attempt
- No messaging in local (which I was watching)
- They simply warped in their scout into my belt (a jaguar), then warped in two catalysts and ganked my mackinaw.
- Then they told me I was clearly bot aspirant because I dont have a permit :)

My lasers were not off, since I wasnt afk. Infact I had just gotten into the system, got into my mackinaw, and warped to the belt to mine.

A few days prior one of their agents had the courtesy of convo'ing me in local which I responded to and he told me that they give 5-30 seconds to respond to the convo to see if someone is afk/botting or not.

Their rules state that you can be ganked with or without a permit.

So whats the point?

Good thing for me is I am not a miner, nor a mission runner. I just got back into eve after a few years hiatus and will get bank into low/null sec soon after getting my bearings.

The bad thing is that these guys try to enforce a code that is meaningless and worthless to anyone but them, since they dont follow the code themselves.