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Ganking in high sec

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Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:48:00 - [271] Originally by: Bhaal More like the DEV's have to use the brains in their heads and not allow this type of "rule bending" to run rampant in their game... Well, until they do it isn't rule bending. It isn't your place to judge what is legal or not. Your opinion counts for exactly nothing. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:52:00 - [272] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Bhaal More like the DEV's have to use the brains in their heads and not allow this type of "rule bending" to run rampant in their game... Well, until they do it isn't rule bending. It isn't your place to judge what is legal or not. Your opinion counts for exactly nothing. As do yours... Oh wait, you don't give any... Just a CCP gumper boy posting facts... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Angellyne	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:54:00 - [273] Originally by: Avon Your opinion counts for exactly nothing. You forgot to add "in my opinion". Or I guess "so sayeth the lord" might fit, depending where you stand on the issue of hypocrisy. Until CCP says they don't care about player opinions, we'll just assume they're like most businesses - and they do care. If that's OK with you, of course.
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:54:00 - [274] Originally by: Bhaal As do yours... Oh wait, you don't give any... Just a CCP gumper boy posting facts... Don't insult me Bhaal. I'd hate for you to lose another forum character. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Lorth	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:54:00 - [275] I'm picking on this post because it esentually contains all the ill thought out arguments against high sec ganking rolled into one. Quote: But paying a frieghter (what,250k/jumps to 750k jump)to deliver 30mil worth of minerals after mining it for what,12hrs 30 jumps away is the only way to go uh... Well for starters, no one would gank a 30 mill ship. All the minerals drop you get your isk back, if they are destroyed your out isk. But even so, you still don't have to hire a frieghter, buy say 4 medium shield extenders or somthing, or make a mission for it... Theres 67 other ways to avoid it. Quote: Oh oh,let me use a transport ship,which I have still to go get in high sec in one of those hubs..... Oh oh... Should be begin to make mechanic changes because some players are unwilling to make the effort to solve thier own problems. Come on, you just posted a solution to your own problem, yet are still asking for a rule change because your the solution requires more work then your willing to do? Quote: Banning the culprits? Come on...they are disposable alts when they reach -4.5 they throw them out and train another one...even getting a -100.0 sec status wouldnt bother those...just delete and make another one. 1: Its an exploit to do this. 2: Its not common to train an alt to use a raven, which is how most of these happen, only to recycle it some days latter. Quote: So bottom line,we cant afk haul,we cant even fly a damn Ibis between gates (I was shot at omw back!)we cant buy expensive stuff or go sell expensive stuff in risk of loosing it except if you pay a royal sum of isk to have it moved or get (trying to) another expensive ship to haul stuff in (that doesnt give peace of mind as I was attacked by a Raven)? Maybe you could stop playing the game AFK. This is yet anouther example of people whinning because they don't want to put forth the effort required to solve thier own problems. Listen to your self. You don't have to pay a royal sum of isk, you actually posted 3 seperate solutions to your own problem that require 0 isk what so ever, and one that requires isk. I posted 2 more, that don't require isk... This post is the epitimy of lazy. It can be paraphased as such. "CCP, please change the game mechanics to help me solve my problem. I already know several solutions to the problem, as evidence by the fact that I posted them, but they require more effort, and thought then I'm willing to put forth"
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:59:00 - [276] Originally by: Angellyne Originally by: Avon Your opinion counts for exactly nothing. You forgot to add "in my opinion". Or I guess "so sayeth the lord" might fit, depending where you stand on the issue of hypocrisy. Until CCP says they don't care about player opinions, we'll just assume they're like most businesses - and they do care. If that's OK with you, of course. No, his opinion does count for nothing. What counts is CCP's position, the rules, and how they are enforced. If doesn't matter if Bhaal thinks the rules are being bent, or that people are exploiting. The fact of the matter is that they aren't, or they would have been punished and probably banned. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that does not mean their opinion actually makes the slightest difference. Bhaal tries to make out that hi-sec ganking is somehow against the rules. That is his opinion. It is not fact. My opinion is that it is within the rule. My opinion is backed up by the facts. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Lorth	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:00:00 - [277] You know this was happening when I first joined EVE some 2 years ago. Many threads were created, and may solutions to the problem were put forth. Fast forward two more years, and its still happening. The solutions to the problems still work. And we also have kill rights, and some aspects of this (deleting alts)have been rightfulyl declared as an exploit. Yet we still see threads. We still see people unwilling to put forth any effort (and the effort is so minimal!) to protect them selves. Yet they get ganked. And we still see people calling for bans, and rule changes. Frankly I'm passing all the blame for this onto the victums from now on. Though I doubt it will matter much to the hundreds of whiners that grace these boards each day looking for sympathy for their own acts of stupidity and carelessness.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:03:00 - [278] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Bhaal As do yours... Oh wait, you don't give any... Just a CCP gumper boy posting facts... Don't insult me Bhaal. I'd hate for you to lose another forum character. Don't threaten me. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:05:00 - [279] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Avon Originally by: Bhaal As do yours... Oh wait, you don't give any... Just a CCP gumper boy posting facts... Don't insult me Bhaal. I'd hate for you to lose another forum character. Don't threaten me. How could that be a threat? It could only be a threat if I had the power to make you lose a character. Clearly I don't. If the thought of the consequence of your actions makes you feel threatened, maybe you should consider more carefully what you post? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:10:00 - [280] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Avon Originally by: Bhaal As do yours... Oh wait, you don't give any... Just a CCP gumper boy posting facts... Don't insult me Bhaal. I'd hate for you to lose another forum character. Don't threaten me. How could that be a threat? It could only be a threat if I had the power to make you lose a character. Clearly I don't. If the thought of the consequence of your actions makes you feel threatened, maybe you should consider more carefully what you post? An email to the Mods perhaps? I don't know... I just find it funny that you and many other arrogant & egotistical BoB members can insult forum posters all day long, but when I try to banter with you, you get upset... Whatever... I have no idea what contacts you may or may not have in that regard... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:11:00 - [281] Originally by: Bhaal An email to the Mods perhaps? I don't know... I just find it funny that you and many other arrogant & egotistical BoB members can insult forum posters all day long, but when I try to banter with you, you get upset... Whatever... I have no idea what contacts you may or may not have in that regard... The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Angellyne	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:20:00 - [282] Originally by: Avon Bhaal tries to make out that hi-sec ganking is somehow against the rules. This sort of hair-splitting gets really tiresome. Is anyone disputing the contents of the rulebook? I'm pretty sure he's arguing it SHOULD be against the rules. So "your opinion counts for nothing"... counts for nothing. Because, see, it's a discussion forum. Not an anti-discussion forum.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:22:00 - [283] Originally by: Angellyne Originally by: Avon Bhaal tries to make out that hi-sec ganking is somehow against the rules. This sort of hair-splitting gets really tiresome. Is anyone disputing the contents of the rulebook? I'm pretty sure he's arguing it SHOULD be against the rules. So "your opinion counts for nothing"... counts for nothing. Because, see, it's a discussion forum. Not an anti-discussion forum. That type of hair splitting is very consistant with a certain group of forums posters... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Darcuese	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:28:00 - [284] Edited by: Darcuese on 27/06/2006 19:31:11 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Darcuese ....individual is not in danger if he got any brain in his head Right. Just think about what you said there. Think very carefully about it. Is it not exactly what I have been saying? If it is true, why would they need game mechanics to protect them? Oh, they don't .. they just need to use that brain in their head. I know what i said and it can be used for both parties. What i dont understand is why there cant be systems safe for those that dont wont to be involved much in risk game...why? What im trsying to say that this kind of ganking today of expensive loot might be just pure simple ganking of afkers or anyone out of boredom tomorow. You all trying to say "Its allowed cause rules dont saya anything aganst it" Does that neccesary make it right? Or you just pretending to be lowyers So, do ppl have to leave their RL jobs so they could have perfect logistic in EVE? Is it so shamfull to ask flying afk if someone wants to? Most of you that defend this actions are PvPers. Cause you had more expiriance then others in variaty what this game provide dont give you right to tell others how they should act if they dont want to. I mean, there are many expensive loot flying around in 0.0 and low sec by the time to reach high sec space. There are many pilots in this universe you can shoot at and earn yourself some isk. Many loot to be picked up by same destroyed haulers and ships. I dont understand why there couldnt be system so ppl could chill out while flying afk. It would be ok thing and justified as it hapen in RL ...IF PUNISHMENT for HIGH SEC GANKERS could be at least close as loot lost by them. Dont you think it would be fair thing...not good or bad , but FAIR? Or you will keep coming back with rules allowing it which make me sad, tbh. You know that there are ppl playing this game and dont want to sociate with others and talk much...they want their own little world so they could relax from RL if neccesary. Dont you think there should be place in BIG UNIVERSE AS EVE for them to be able to chill out if they like? (not station) Come on, I am PvPer and i would also like to show them some more fields in this game to explore. But im not thier mother or father nor am I GOD (yet). And i dont think they are lesser beings for not knowing how to stay alive or safe. They are still part of this game and such should have systems where security from gankers should make them safe. Untill gankers get possibility to lose from such actions as much as ppl they just killed and looted...then high sec space should be safe....even for afking In the end...one canfit a BS and have some fun cause he is bored atm...and go killing in high sec space. Even if he dont get payed insuirance ...one BS loss today for few moments of fun is nothing . So, cause you might be bored you can screwed someone game and not paying for it even if you are killed as much victims lost. that is whats bothering me DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??
Darcuese	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:35:00 - [285] Originally by: Bhaal I just find it funny that you and many other arrogant & egotistical BoB members can insult forum posters all day long, but when I try to banter with you, you get upset... Please Bhaal, leave BoB out of it cause its obvious 2 members of BoB have different opinions here DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:10:00 - [286] This is why people shouldn't be safe. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Darcuese	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:13:00 - [287] Edited by: Darcuese on 27/06/2006 20:14:25 ffs...i wrote mine post twice...first time forum didnt acept it and then i lost it. So i wrote again not good as i wrote it first time. And now you come back with book to read...lazzy bassa. Anyway, in short ..dont you agreing there should be greather consiqencies for gankers that they are now? (in order for high sec ganking could be more aceptable and dangerous to try too) DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??
Alfofol	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:16:00 - [288] I propose three things to help with the problem of empire ganking. It will not eliminate the problem but will at least minimize it somewhat. 1. Make a module that disrupts cargo and ship scanners. That way a hauler can install it and the killers won't know if the ship is filled with megacyte or tritanium. Make it a high-slot module to be fair to those haulers. 2. Negotiate a deal between Concord and the insurance companies so that any ship that is destroyed by concord doesn't get any insurance paid out or just the basic one. I know this has some inconviences (have myself been concorkilled for activating the wrong module on a gang member, but at least I clicked past the warning) and won't affect Kestrels, but people would be less likely to setup a Raven for this behaviour. 3. Allow us to boobytrap our cargo. When a ship is destroyed and the can looted, a bomb activates giving, say a 30 countdown timer where you have to enter a password or the whole thing blows up taking the ship with it. These bombs can be disguised as anything and will deactivate if jettisoned back into space. Of course you can sift through the cargo and take items one by one until you have identified the bomb which you leave in space. At least this gives the victim or his mates some time to come back and retaliate or get their cargo back. Any friend picking up the cargo just gets the right password from the original owner and deactivates the bomb. Any ship with an active bomb in it's hold is not allowed to dock or jump due to the inherent danger. These are just ideas on how to minimize the problem. I agree that no space should be risk free, but doubt that suicide ganking was even concieved when the rules were written. Personally I loathe the idea of suicide ganking in high sec and think it's bending the rules a bit to far. But bottom line is that it is now possible, and CCP either don't mind it or do mind but can't figure out how to fix it without restricting other forms of pvp to much.
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:19:00 - [289] Originally by: Darcuese ffs...i wrote mine post twice...first time forum didnt acept it and then i lost it. So i wrote again not good as i wrote it first time. And now you come back with book to read...lazzy bassa. Anyway, in short ..dont you agreing there should be greather consiqencies for gankers that they are now? No. It does nothing to encourage people to take responibility. The punishment is enough. The 'pirate' has to constantly keep on top of the sec status hits, otherwise he can't enter high-sec. That is on top of the loss he will definately take, even if his victim drops nothing of value. He is also flagged to that player for up to 30 days. There is plenty of room for that pilot to be punished - but it should come from the players. Next thing we know, people will be demanding to become CEO of an NPC alliance because it is unfair to be expected to put effort in, or use teamwork, to compete with the alliances in 0.0 The rules are fine. The punishment is fine. What is lacking is people using the tools provided for them. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:21:00 - [290] Originally by: Avon This is why people shouldn't be safe. "We're also very iterative in our work and keep continuous feedback cycles on the features we do, then regularly improve them based on that feedback. The community is an incredible source for how to improve the game and what they do within the game gives us constant inspiration for what we should implement next. Being so open-ended means the players do what they want and we try to keep up and add support and tools to take emerging behavior further. Embrace and evolve are the keywords here." And this is why I'll continue to post on the forums... Regardless if some of the DEV's may have been griefers in UO... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:22:00 - [291] Originally by: Darcuese Originally by: Bhaal I just find it funny that you and many other arrogant & egotistical BoB members can insult forum posters all day long, but when I try to banter with you, you get upset... Please Bhaal, leave BoB out of it cause its obvious 2 members of BoB have different opinions here Your opinion doesn't count, only Avon's does... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:29:00 - [292] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Darcuese Originally by: Bhaal I just find it funny that you and many other arrogant & egotistical BoB members can insult forum posters all day long, but when I try to banter with you, you get upset... Please Bhaal, leave BoB out of it cause its obvious 2 members of BoB have different opinions here Your opinion doesn't count, only Avon's does... No, mine doesn't either. Now, stop trolling, k? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:33:00 - [293] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Darcuese Originally by: Bhaal I just find it funny that you and many other arrogant & egotistical BoB members can insult forum posters all day long, but when I try to banter with you, you get upset... Please Bhaal, leave BoB out of it cause its obvious 2 members of BoB have different opinions here Your opinion doesn't count, only Avon's does... No, mine doesn't either. Now, stop trolling, k? If my opinion doesn't count, and your opinion doesn't count... What are we doing here? We're not creating forum drama for the DEV's to enjoy, we are giving them reasons to change/not change the game. Pros & Con's to both... It's not my problem ppl can't always play nice on the forums... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Vincent Gaines	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:18:00 - [294] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Darcuese ffs...i wrote mine post twice...first time forum didnt acept it and then i lost it. So i wrote again not good as i wrote it first time. And now you come back with book to read...lazzy bassa. Anyway, in short ..dont you agreing there should be greather consiqencies for gankers that they are now? No. It does nothing to encourage people to take responibility. The punishment is enough. The 'pirate' has to constantly keep on top of the sec status hits, otherwise he can't enter high-sec. That is on top of the loss he will definately take, even if his victim drops nothing of value. He is also flagged to that player for up to 30 days. There is plenty of room for that pilot to be punished - but it should come from the players. Next thing we know, people will be demanding to become CEO of an NPC alliance because it is unfair to be expected to put effort in, or use teamwork, to compete with the alliances in 0.0 The rules are fine. The punishment is fine. What is lacking is people using the tools provided for them. alts don't need to worry about sec status
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:42:00 - [295] Originally by: Vincent Gaines alts don't need to worry about sec status ofc they do. Enough ship kills they can't enter highsec to do this. Recycle them and you face a petition and a ban. This was dealt with, oh back on page 1 (probably) Good to see the wheel has come full circle with the "anti gankers" back to excuse 1 and the "pro choice" standing firm with a unfied front of reason and fact.
Lord Frost	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:49:00 - [296] How quick do people forget that empire is where many noobs and beginning players start and basically train, skill up, learn the ropes... and its frustrating to see ansswers to the ops question like "get s t2 hauler" and "its all your fault"... please, thats about as helpful as handing over a spoon and telling him to dig his own grave. Ganking in Empire is lame... and they only hit easy targets (of course)... basically pick on noobs for their hard work. So to all the people saying "you deserve it".. .please STFU, cuz you don't have a clue.
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:51:00 - [297] Originally by: Angellyne Originally by: csebal Even if it means stepping on some toes. How many times have you seen topics like this come up? "How can a pirate gank my hauler in 1.0" - and so on? So what makes these victims ignorant? They got the impression somewhere that 1.0 was "safe" space. No one told them to ask for an escort. They don't follow the forums. No one ganked their hauler like that before. With that, we are back on square one. Since when is the lack of knowledge an excuse when talking about responsibility? Would it be my responsibility to go easy on them, because they "may" not know? Don't be ridiculous. Stepping on some toes? Apparently you think those ignorant folks deserve to lose ships and fortunes in cargo, and then be called "ignorant" by the lamer thief spending their ISK. Originally by: Angellyne If anyone suggests making that stuff harder for you, well... "their kind" just want to punish you for the ignorance of your victims. The gate gankers need a new spokesman. This one's not cutting it. First, i'm no spokesman for anyone. I merely voice my side of the story, and point out the flaws in your thinking. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:55:00 - [298] Originally by: Lord Frost How quick do people forget that empire is where many noobs and beginning players start and basically train, skill up, learn the ropes... and its frustrating to see ansswers to the ops question like "get s t2 hauler" and "Noobs" dont fly with half a billion in cargo. I didnt quote where you said "ffs get a clue" - you know I'm thinking it though.
Angellyne	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:56:00 - [299] Originally by: csebal ...and point out the flaws in your thinking. When this happens, be sure and let me know. You don't capable of understanding it, much less deubgging it. Did I say anything about "going easy"? Did I say anything about your responsibility? Just stop trying to reply to me, please. You're simply no good at it.
Craminu	Posted - 2006.06.27 22:03:00 - [300] ganking in high sec will only make us haulers not haul. just make deliveries. stop buying stuff trading hubs. etc. always an way out of it. but i think its time that concord step up the protections near stargates :)

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