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Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:14:00 - [211] Originally by: csebal Being stone deaf is not something i could report to the mods. You choose to ignore other people's opinion, dismiss all arguments against things you believe, generally do nothing else than to repeat the same few arguments and ideas over and over again. It is your choice. I merely tried to point out the similarities between your posts and the behavior described in the forum warrior index. Like I said, I post my opinions and the changes I want... I don't come to the forums to compromise... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:15:00 - [212] Whining game ruiners. Go play something else if you don't like EVE.
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:19:00 - [213] Edited by: csebal on 27/06/2006 15:19:21 Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: csebal Being stone deaf is not something i could report to the mods. You choose to ignore other people's opinion, dismiss all arguments against things you believe, generally do nothing else than to repeat the same few arguments and ideas over and over again. It is your choice. I merely tried to point out the similarities between your posts and the behavior described in the forum warrior index. Like I said, I post my opinions and the changes I want... I don't come to the forums to compromise... The forum is - unlike you think - not a place to petition the DEVs for changes YOU WANT. There is a bug reporting system for that, a different system called petitions - where you can make suggestions on future improvements - etc. People coming to the forums are expected to DISCUSS things, not just pounder away with the same arguments without even trying to think about what the other party has to say. So either respect the purpose of the forums, or just stay out of it. k?thxdie! My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:20:00 - [214] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Whining game ruiners. Go play something else if you don't like EVE. Go post somewhere else if you like this thread.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:21:00 - [215] Originally by: Jane Vladmir Whining game ruiners. Go play something else if you don't like EVE. How many people playing any MMO like everything about that game 100%? No matter what it is we are doing in life, there are better ways of doing it... And I'm there to point those things out... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:24:00 - [216] Originally by: csebal Edited by: csebal on 27/06/2006 15:19:21 Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: csebal Being stone deaf is not something i could report to the mods. You choose to ignore other people's opinion, dismiss all arguments against things you believe, generally do nothing else than to repeat the same few arguments and ideas over and over again. It is your choice. I merely tried to point out the similarities between your posts and the behavior described in the forum warrior index. Like I said, I post my opinions and the changes I want... I don't come to the forums to compromise... The forum is - unlike you think - not a place to petition the DEVs for changes YOU WANT. There is a bug reporting system for that, a different system called petitions - where you can make suggestions on future improvements - etc. People coming to the forums are expected to DISCUSS things, not just pounder away with the same arguments without even trying to think about what the other party has to say. So either respect the purpose of the forums, or just stay out of it. k?thxdie! Pot. Kettle. And your wrong, this forum is frequently used for official and unofficial polls and feedback which directly can and have translated into game changes.
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:25:00 - [217] Originally by: Bhaal High sec ganking = griefing, nothing more. It's not a career, it's a play style, played by *******s... So true, even though of course the griefers will do their best to claim otherwise Silverleaf Foundation Website & Shop
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:25:00 - [218] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Jane Vladmir Whining game ruiners. Go play something else if you don't like EVE. How many people playing any MMO like everything about that game 100%? No matter what it is we are doing in life, there are better ways of doing it... And I'm there to point those things out... And since you can't be wrong, you are doing everyone a big favor by telling us the one and ultimate right thing to do eh? Oh please.. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN
Darcuese	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:29:00 - [219] Originally by: csebal Being stone deaf is not something i could report to the mods. You choose to ignore other people's opinion, dismiss all arguments against things you believe, generally do nothing else than to repeat the same few arguments and ideas over and over again. It is your choice. I merely tried to point out the similarities between your posts and the behavior described in the forum warrior index. No one is ignoring anyone opinions....variaty of opinion are presented here. My opinion is that this kind of earnings in high sec should not be allowed...your is different. In the end after many posts as this CCP are those that will change something or not. Using game mechaninc doeasnt make it right however...nor it make it wrong for others DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:31:00 - [220] Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Jane Vladmir Whining game ruiners. Go play something else if you don't like EVE. How many people playing any MMO like everything about that game 100%? No matter what it is we are doing in life, there are better ways of doing it... And I'm there to point those things out... And since you can't be wrong, you are doing everyone a big favor by telling us the one and ultimate right thing to do eh? Oh please.. Seems to me you can't handle the forums... If I were doing something wrong, I'm sure the Mods would take care of it, they don't need you... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:32:00 - [221] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Pot. Kettle. And your wrong, this forum is frequently used for official and unofficial polls and feedback which directly can and have translated into game changes. Pot? Kettle? Well.. in a sense im just as passionate about the things i belive to be right as our friend here but with one major difference. I read what others post, try to counter their arguments with mine, and acknowledge their truth if i can't prove them wrong through arguments of mine. I do not treat the forum as a place where i can hit people with my ideology until they say i am right. I merely treat it as a place where i can pit my opinion and arguments against those of others. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:33:00 - [222] Edited by: csebal on 27/06/2006 15:33:52 Originally by: Darcuese Originally by: csebal Being stone deaf is not something i could report to the mods. You choose to ignore other people's opinion, dismiss all arguments against things you believe, generally do nothing else than to repeat the same few arguments and ideas over and over again. It is your choice. I merely tried to point out the similarities between your posts and the behavior described in the forum warrior index. No one is ignoring anyone opinions....variaty of opinion are presented here. Originally by: Bhaal Like I said, I post my opinions and the changes I want... I don't come to the forums to compromise... Sure noone is doing that.. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:35:00 - [223] Originally by: csebal Edited by: csebal on 27/06/2006 15:33:52 Originally by: Darcuese Originally by: csebal Being stone deaf is not something i could report to the mods. You choose to ignore other people's opinion, dismiss all arguments against things you believe, generally do nothing else than to repeat the same few arguments and ideas over and over again. It is your choice. I merely tried to point out the similarities between your posts and the behavior described in the forum warrior index. No one is ignoring anyone opinions....variaty of opinion are presented here. Originally by: Bhaal Like I said, I post my opinions and the changes I want... I don't come to the forums to compromise... Sure noone is doing that.. I tell plenty of ppl their opinions suck, so I'm not ignoring them... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:36:00 - [224] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/06/2006 15:39:01 They should just put concord in Titans and let them use their superweapons tbh. Also miners should be protected by fleets of battleships, and traders escorted by t2 cruisers at all times. And local should be moderated by ccp personell so everything you say have to be approved first. I think that covers it... --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:39:00 - [225] Originally by: Bhaal Seems to me you can't handle the forums... If I were doing something wrong, I'm sure the Mods would take care of it, they don't need you... Not every 'wrong' has someone to take care of it. I don't know why you are assuming, that there must be a third party protection against every kind of bad thing. As i mentioned before, you do nothing that the mods could or should punish. You are simply not willing to make compromises. As arguing is pointless if one side is by principle refusing to give in to the other side, i don't see a reason why i should continue to discuss this issue with you. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:43:00 - [226] Originally by: csebal I do not treat the forum as a place where i can hit people with my ideology until they say i am right. I merely treat it as a place where i can pit my opinion and arguments against those of others. Bhaal just tries to beat you into submission by repetition. 4 pages of this thread are him repeating himself in the face of well worded arguments to the contrary.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:44:00 - [227] Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal Seems to me you can't handle the forums... If I were doing something wrong, I'm sure the Mods would take care of it, they don't need you... Not every 'wrong' has someone to take care of it. I don't know why you are assuming, that there must be a third party protection against every kind of bad thing. As i mentioned before, you do nothing that the mods could or should punish. You are simply not willing to make compromises. As arguing is pointless if one side is by principle refusing to give in to the other side, i don't see a reason why i should continue to discuss this issue with you. Bye ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:53:00 - [228] Originally by: Bhaal im stubborn But quite unpersuasive. Otherwise your bleating would have had a modicum of influence.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:55:00 - [229] Edited by: Bhaal on 27/06/2006 15:55:49 Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Bhaal im stubborn But quite unpersuasive. Otherwise your bleating would have had a modicum of influence. I can't help it if none of you are open minded. I'll still continue to give you my opinions. Enough about me, lets get back on topic... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Darcuese	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:57:00 - [230] Well, its ok with me if you want to fight in high sec instead of lower or 0.0. As i said, if i wouldnt like PvP i wouldnt be fighting last 8 months. Some of you saying "I wouldnt fly 50m worth of loot in cargo without special preparations"..or something like that. Today it might be 500k zydrine, tomorrow there will be 100k zydrine. In short amount of time there will be pure ganking just for fun. Well, Im one of those that would like to afk a bit every now and then after spending many days in 0.0 with open eyes. You obviously dont want that....so i guess future will put us togaher in same high sec system with guns prepared DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:03:00 - [231] Edited by: Deja Thoris on 27/06/2006 16:05:03 Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 27/06/2006 15:55:49 Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Bhaal im stubborn But quite unpersuasive. Otherwise your bleating would have had a modicum of influence. I can't help it if none of you are open minded. I'll still continue to give you my opinions. Enough about me, lets get back on topic... Originally by: Bhaal High sec ganking = griefing, nothing more. Stop stating your opinions as fact then. It's CCP's game. The player guide defines griefing. Suicide ganking is not griefing according to the CCP definition. You are therefore wrong (thats a fact, not an opinion) Expressing your opinion as fact, disregarding the evidence to the contrary isn't stubborn, its stupid.
Angellyne	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:06:00 - [232] People DO get help moving their goods - the wanna-be pirates just don't attack them. They wait for someone flying solo in a weak ship. Am I missing something? You scan and estimate the value of cargo. If the estimated value is higher than the price of a clone and insurance on a new ship - what, 20 million? You open fire. Your alt grabs the loot, and the victim can't do anything about it. All it takes is minimal spaceship command skill and an alt. Where's the proverbial "risk versus reward" here? The only risk is what, that the loot might blow with the ship? So you spend 20 million on a coin toss - and after 2 or 3 tosses you're almost guaranteed to have made a decent profit. Anyone who calls this "piracy" is flattering himself. Pirates actually fight, get pursued, that sort of thing. They don't sit in Jita flipping a coin. It's exploiting a flaw in the game - period. Bah, "working as intended", "players have the means to prevent it", same old song. Fine for the players who have been ganked already, or the ones who read the forums. Otherwise, completely nearsighted. I hope people cancel their subscriptions over this. It's a flaw, but it hasn't affected me personally. If it did, and it meant transferring my fortune to some arrogant lamer, I wouldn't hesitate to cancel.
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:12:00 - [233] Edited by: robacz on 27/06/2006 16:14:14 Originally by: Deja Thoris Stop stating your opinions as fact then. It's CCP's game. The player guide defines griefing. Suicide ganking is not griefing according to the CCP definition. You are therefore wrong (thats a fact, not an opinion) Expressing your opinion as fact, disregarding the evidence to the contrary isn't stubborn, its stupid. CCP's Player Guide is completly outdated, so you cant rely on it. Highsec ganking IS griefing. Its abuse the fact that CONCORD doesnt protect property of criminal act victims. You are not supposed to kill other players in high-sec space, thats why there is CONCORD. You get penalized for it, but griefers found way how to make profit even though this penalization, so they abuse it. How else should it be called? Legit tactic? C'mon. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:13:00 - [234] Originally by: Deja Thoris Edited by: Deja Thoris on 27/06/2006 16:05:03 Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 27/06/2006 15:55:49 Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Bhaal im stubborn But quite unpersuasive. Otherwise your bleating would have had a modicum of influence. I can't help it if none of you are open minded. I'll still continue to give you my opinions. Enough about me, lets get back on topic... Originally by: Bhaal High sec ganking = griefing, nothing more. Stop stating your opinions as fact then. It's CCP's game. The player guide defines griefing. Suicide ganking is not griefing according to the CCP definition. You are therefore wrong (thats a fact, not an opinion) Expressing your opinion as fact, disregarding the evidence to the contrary isn't stubborn, its stupid. Just because I have an equal sign in there, you think I'm stating fact? In my mind that may be a fact, because it's my opinion... In your opinion it is not fact... What's the problem? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Darcuese	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:18:00 - [235] Originally by: Angellyne All it takes is minimal spaceship command skill and an alt. Where's the proverbial "risk versus reward" here? The only risk is what, that the loot might blow with the ship? So you spend 20 million on a coin toss - and after 2 or 3 tosses you're almost guaranteed to have made a decent profit. . That is my point too....Im ok with what ever you guys can do in high sec space as long there is a posibility for you to lose close to what you can get. Is that so hard to understand? DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:22:00 - [236] Originally by: robacz Edited by: robacz on 27/06/2006 16:14:14 Originally by: Deja Thoris Stop stating your opinions as fact then. It's CCP's game. The player guide defines griefing. Suicide ganking is not griefing according to the CCP definition. You are therefore wrong (thats a fact, not an opinion) Expressing your opinion as fact, disregarding the evidence to the contrary isn't stubborn, its stupid. CCP's Player Guide is completly outdated, so you cant rely on it. Highsec ganking IS griefing. Its abuse the fact that CONCORD doesnt protect property of criminal act victims. You are not supposed to kill other players in high-sec space, thats why there is CONCORD. You get penalized for it, but griefers found way how to make profit even though this penalization, so they abuse it. How else should it be called? Legit tactic? C'mon. Then why do people petitioned for doing this not get banned? After all it's griefing and thats bannable, right? Facts once again prove your opinion wrong. Look after yourself, don't expect the game mechanics to do it for you. Make that your mantra, it gives you insight into what I believe CCP's philosophy on the matter is.
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:24:00 - [237] Edited by: csebal on 27/06/2006 16:26:48 Originally by: Angellyne People DO get help moving their goods - the wanna-be pirates just don't attack them. They wait for someone flying solo in a weak ship. Thats exactly what's happening. Those who come prepared rarely to never die. Originally by: Angellyne You scan and estimate the value of cargo. If the estimated value is higher than the price of a clone and insurance on a new ship - what, 20 million? You open fire. Your alt grabs the loot, and the victim can't do anything about it. All it takes is minimal spaceship command skill and an alt. Where's the proverbial "risk versus reward" here? The only risk is what, that the loot might blow with the ship? So you spend 20 million on a coin toss - and after 2 or 3 tosses you're almost guaranteed to have made a decent profit. Since we are talking about PvP here, risk vs reward is a rather dodgy thing to apply. As i said, i risk getting some enemies you would rather no have. I risk losing good connections or future options in my EVE career. How much of a loss this is depends on the person. For me - with me being rather friendly normally - this is indeed a big risk. Still i must ask you then: what risk is there in living and gaining wealth in 1.0 then? How does that risk relate to the risk i take as a pirate? Originally by: Angellyne Anyone who calls this "piracy" is flattering himself. Pirates actually fight, get pursued, that sort of thing. They don't sit in Jita flipping a coin. Pirates do not fight. They kill you and take your belongings. PvP in EVE in general is about destroying your opponent and achieving your goal. The goal here is obtaining the loot. That the fight leaves less chance for the victim is just natural. Why would i want to maximise my risk? After all.. i'm in this for the money, not for the thrill of fighting. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:26:00 - [238] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/06/2006 16:26:17 I noticed Petwrath in a nearby thread! Run for your lifes! This thread is more meaningless than daytime TV. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
oolk	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:28:00 - [239] Ok,call me dumb as much as you`ll like. But paying a frieghter (what,250k/jumps to 750k jump)to deliver 30mil worth of minerals after mining it for what,12hrs 30 jumps away is the only way to go uh... Oh oh,let me use a transport ship,which I have still to go get in high sec in one of those hubs..... Banning the culprits? Come on...they are disposable alts when they reach -4.5 they throw them out and train another one...even getting a -100.0 sec status wouldnt bother those...just delete and make another one. So bottom line,we cant afk haul,we cant even fly a damn Ibis between gates (I was shot at omw back!)we cant buy expensive stuff or go sell expensive stuff in risk of loosing it except if you pay a royal sum of isk to have it moved or get (trying to) another expensive ship to haul stuff in (that doesnt give peace of mind as I was attacked by a Raven)? Making instas to navigate between 0.8~1.0 gates? This is madness...my experience of the game has been seriously brought down. perhaps one day all that will be left will be thieves,greiffers and pirates players. Oh the joy....CCP,just remove Concord now...you`ll gain time.
Darcuese	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:28:00 - [240] pardon me for not knowing this...but since when griefing was banable ofence? Im trully not part of any empire shooting unless its accidently shooting someone coming out of 0.0 and losing my precious zealots DEAD or ALIVE we allways have some fun. DO YOU??

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