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Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:00:00 - [31] Originally by: R3dSh1ft i know its old news, but to reassure you all just a little bit: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=907&tid=1 I fail to understand why they don't perma-ban anyone caught using a macro... Is CCP running an MMO or an MM Anonymous rehab program? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Vincent Gaines	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:16:00 - [32] as I said earlier... most are no longer macros, but farmers using multiple accounts.

wystler	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Bhaal What makes you guys think that CCP won't need to spend that income running support for the China server? You think this company who bought the license will be able to handle everything? They will have similar problems to what Tranq has, only x10 more players... CCP license EVE to another company in China. The company pays a license fee to use the EVE technology. I believe this company also owns the Serenity hardware, not CCP. This company provides all GMs and bills Chinese citizens locally. CCP do not provide GM level support on Serenity. I'm sure CCP will offer advice on certain issues, and I'm sure to a point the two GM teams will liase with each other on exploit issues as in theory any exploit someone finds on Tranquility will also exist on Serenity given they will be on the same patch level. The above is stated to the best of my personal knowledge and is NOT an official statement on behalf of CCP, but if you read the information published about EVE China the above facts seem to be quite obvious eve-crc.net \| forum rules \| [email protected] Official keeper of the smilie. Yarr!

Jacobz	Posted - 2006.06.27 22:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Hllaxiu 30,000 for them is like 840 for us... I'd venture to guess Blizzard runs a tighter ship, and the percentage of farmers/ISK sellers in EVE is much greater...
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 22:45:00 - [35] Originally by: wystler Originally by: Bhaal What makes you guys think that CCP won't need to spend that income running support for the China server? You think this company who bought the license will be able to handle everything? They will have similar problems to what Tranq has, only x10 more players... CCP license EVE to another company in China. The company pays a license fee to use the EVE technology. I believe this company also owns the Serenity hardware, not CCP. This company provides all GMs and bills Chinese citizens locally. CCP do not provide GM level support on Serenity. I'm sure CCP will offer advice on certain issues, and I'm sure to a point the two GM teams will liase with each other on exploit issues as in theory any exploit someone finds on Tranquility will also exist on Serenity given they will be on the same patch level. The above is stated to the best of my personal knowledge and is NOT an official statement on behalf of CCP, but if you read the information published about EVE China the above facts seem to be quite obvious Is this a one-time fee, like buying the license to an ID Games engine, or are we talking a lease? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Drizit	Posted - 2006.06.27 23:45:00 - [36] Back to the original topic. I'd say something has obviously been done recently because I have been out mining Pyrox and Kern in my local system and hardly seen a macroer for days now. I can actually go into the belt and find some ore other than Veld to mine lately. It could also have something to do with several kessies I have kitted for combat for occasions when I have seen them in the past. --
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.06.27 23:46:00 - [37] Originally by: Bhaal Do we hide criminals faces from the public in RL? Yes, we do, and rightly so. You might not in your country, but we do. There's no other way to stop idiot vigilantes from taking vengeance. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 01:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Bhaal Do we hide criminals faces from the public in RL? Yes, we do, and rightly so. You might not in your country, but we do. There's no other way to stop idiot vigilantes from taking vengeance. Well we don't in my counrty... Unless the law enforcement plans on using the guy as an informant, or there is national security issues... Other than that, the criminals face is plastered all over the news... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Viggor	Posted - 2006.06.28 01:55:00 - [39] Originally by: Bhaal I fail to understand why they don't perma-ban anyone caught using a macro... You don't believe in second chances?
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.28 03:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: wystler Originally by: Bhaal What makes you guys think that CCP won't need to spend that income running support for the China server? You think this company who bought the license will be able to handle everything? They will have similar problems to what Tranq has, only x10 more players... CCP license EVE to another company in China. The company pays a license fee to use the EVE technology. I believe this company also owns the Serenity hardware, not CCP. This company provides all GMs and bills Chinese citizens locally. CCP do not provide GM level support on Serenity. I'm sure CCP will offer advice on certain issues, and I'm sure to a point the two GM teams will liase with each other on exploit issues as in theory any exploit someone finds on Tranquility will also exist on Serenity given they will be on the same patch level. The above is stated to the best of my personal knowledge and is NOT an official statement on behalf of CCP, but if you read the information published about EVE China the above facts seem to be quite obvious Is this a one-time fee, like buying the license to an ID Games engine, or are we talking a lease? I'd imagine in the MMO world, any contract CCP has with them is a lease of some sort, with payment being a flatrate and a % based on income from the china subscribers. Plus since apparently some of CCP's staff went to china for this as well, them being there would if nothing else, have a charge for advising and helping them run the game.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.28 03:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Bhaal Do we hide criminals faces from the public in RL? Yes, we do, and rightly so. You might not in your country, but we do. There's no other way to stop idiot vigilantes from taking vengeance. Well we don't in my counrty... Unless the law enforcement plans on using the guy as an informant, or there is national security issues... Other than that, the criminals face is plastered all over the news... No, a small fraction of the high-ratings grabbers are plastered. I know when some cops were busted for illegal gamlbing in my area, that was on lockdown more than a prison. Same goes for pretty much all mob-related crime. Megan's law doesn't cover the entire criminal world you know.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 03:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Viggor Originally by: Bhaal I fail to understand why they don't perma-ban anyone caught using a macro... You don't believe in second chances? For a blatant violation of the EULA that damages the persistant universe for the rest of the playerbase? Why give a second chance? They have already proven their lack of concern for the rest of the EVE community, why the hell should I want someone like that to get a second chance? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Cylynex	Posted - 2006.06.28 03:27:00 - [43] Edited by: Cylynex on 28/06/2006 03:28:01 Originally by: Sensor Error CCP have banned more than 600 accounts, that much I'm sure of... Have they? I'd love to see your source on that. This is EVE, not WoW. Every man for himself. Get yourself a bigger ship and go BBQPWN them. It's more fun anyway.
phi norm	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:07:00 - [44] Originally by: Bhaal For a blatant violation of the EULA that damages the persistant universe for the rest of the playerbase? Why give a second chance? They have already proven their lack of concern for the rest of the EVE community, why the hell should I want someone like that to get a second chance? I oftem wonder about this....not only in eve but in other MMO's i have played. How exactly does someone farming, then someone buying isk or items for RL cash actually make the game less enjoyable for me. To date it never has, although one could argue that if in eve one was in a prolonged war then economics is an influencing factor, but then it makes no odds to me if they bought that isk or have a fleet of miners or some nice BPO's paying for there effort. You see it just dosent matter to my enjoyment.....sure you could argue about how the economy gets fubar'd, but in reallity it hasn't, and anyway this only accelerates the eventuall economic situation. People say that farmers/buyers have screwed with the economy in Lineage II, well no it would have ended like that anyway because of how it works. Anywho remember its about your enjoyment iv'e seen a few of your posts on a number of threads latley and you appear to face problems at every turn..... me.....well Phi Norm graduated from the Acadamy about January 05 i think i currently have 123,000isk to my name and i've loved every minute.
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:17:00 - [45] People farming the minerals for money introduces an unpleasant real world wealth situation to the game - that is with enough money you can buy however must ISK you want, and the minerals market isn't worth anything to me, the legitimate miner. I'm of a different opinion on selling GTC's incidentally however, since in that case ISK changes hands but for the benefit of someone else continuing to play. It's marginally more legitimate - in the former case I'm being screwed out of my in-game success so someone else can make money in what is effectively at my expense. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:26:00 - [46] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Bhaal CCP just does not have the manpower... Blizzard makes a hell of a lot more money than CCP, and this is one of the things they can do with that money, CCP simply can't afford it, so the game suffers... Wait until the China server is up and running, Tranq will get even less attention... And why CCP is so secretive when it comes to cheaters is beyond me, they should post all the cheaters names and alts names as well... Need to start banning & calling out these bastards... It's hard to tell if you're really that ignorant, or just baiting. You can't just 'post' information about heaters, that opens a legal can of worms unlike anything you can comprehend. The china server is run by a different staff, altho if it hasnt drilled into your thick skull by now, it never will. Ratio-wise, blizzard banning a few thousand accounts is like CCP banning a few hundred. CCP doesn't have the GM staff to ban thousands at a time. How is posting character names of ppl who violated the EULA illegal? WTF? The simple answer is that anyone whos appeal is approved gets their name cleared. We need a monthly Ban-Blog with the names of everyone who was warned/banned (and the duration of the ban and what it was for). At the start of the blog will be a list of people who's appeals were successful. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
phi norm	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:35:00 - [47] Originally by: James Duar People farming the minerals for money introduces an unpleasant real world wealth situation to the game - that is with enough money you can buy however must ISK you want, and the minerals market isn't worth anything to me, the legitimate miner. I'm being screwed out of my in-game success so someone else can make money in what is effectively at my expense. So let me get this straight......people are farming minerals for billions of isk to sell for $$$$.......but when you farm minerals its worthless. you see i just dont get it. or is the problem you really have that someone spent $100 dollars on 500mill isk....something you cant afford to do or dont want to do. then again, i would say how does it effect what you do in game? really answer this honestly. do you believ that if all ISK selling miners were removed from the game that mineral prices would soar and you'd be the only guy sat in a barge......i never pay much attention to the min market how much has it crashed over the last whatever????
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:42:00 - [48] Originally by: phi norm Originally by: James Duar People farming the minerals for money introduces an unpleasant real world wealth situation to the game - that is with enough money you can buy however must ISK you want, and the minerals market isn't worth anything to me, the legitimate miner. I'm being screwed out of my in-game success so someone else can make money in what is effectively at my expense. So let me get this straight......people are farming minerals for billions of isk to sell for $$$$.......but when you farm minerals its worthless. you see i just dont get it. or is the problem you really have that someone spent $100 dollars on 500mill isk....something you cant afford to do or dont want to do. then again, i would say how does it effect what you do in game? really answer this honestly. do you believ that if all ISK selling miners were removed from the game that mineral prices would soar and you'd be the only guy sat in a barge......i never pay much attention to the min market how much has it crashed over the last whatever???? Why should I have to pay real world money to obtain game world money? Most of us would much rather spend it on things like food, shelter and computer upgrades. But that's not the point. The point is that the people doing the farming are destroying the market for those of us who mine for our ISK in game, in order for them to make real world money. Farmer's run 4-5 accounts 23/7, and while there'll be the occasional legit player doing that, most are doing it just for the ISK to convert to RL money. There's no way to compete with that, because they're just macroing it in. Ever wondered why it's almost impossible to make good money from ice mining these days? --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Tsukiko Kuro	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:51:00 - [49] Originally by: Viggor Originally by: Bhaal I fail to understand why they don't perma-ban anyone caught using a macro... You don't believe in second chances? No I don't, certainly not then its due to using a macro or selling/buying ISK.
Arath Veduran	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:06:00 - [50] Originally by: James Duar Farmer's run 4-5 accounts 23/7, and while there'll be the occasional legit player doing that, most are doing it just for the ISK to convert to RL money. There's no way to compete with that, because they're just macroing it in. Ever wondered why it's almost impossible to make good money from ice mining these days? The way to compete is to mine better ores. What can the macro miners mine? Veldspar, scordite, pyrox, plagio, omber and kernite if they can find it. They're not going to go into lowsec, so no jaspet, crokite, bistot, mercoxit, etc. That's how you compete. Get down into lowsec, and mine better ores. You'll be raking in the ISK.
Niraven	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:12:00 - [51] Quote: Now this is the second time I've seen something about WoW and tackling cheats, if memory serves me right they have code embeded in their clientside software which detects and inspects any 3rd party software running on a players' computer. I believe that they have a list of programmes you can use for example TS and instead use the "snooper" to find macro's etc. Ah, thanks for another good reason not to play WoW. Doesn't surprise me, Blizzard has been known to try stuff like that on occassion. Quote: I'm aware that the article says "alleged cheating" but in a case like this, if a 3rd party programme was detected running in the background, I'd say the burden of proof is on the user to prove it's not a contravention of the EULA. Ah, guilty until proven innocent, or what?
Kay Han	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:26:00 - [52] If CCP implements programms to detect 3rd party software, then this is day is my last. As for WoW.. nobody knows what this programm is doing exactly. Sure it detects 3rd party software. But what else? It¦s just another form of spyware. Nobody wants spyware.. execpt for Millions of 14 year old childs which are playing WoW I¦m sure the dev¦s are working on a good solution against the macroer. Maybe they simply should write thiere own macro. And judge the peeps which are using it. But thats just a thought.... ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
Nexus1972	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:08:00 - [53] I dare anyone to say macro mining isnt a problem in eve: Ebay Sale 1 (68 buyers) Ebay Sale 2 (multiple buyers - multiple games) Ebay sales 3 (488 feedback!!!!) And thats just a five minute quick browse on this list Its time CCP intoduced a snooper to stop this stuff happening. Or if they are banning lots of people give us a weekly/monthly count of how many have been banned for macroing. I'd prefer to name and shame the people and the corps they were in, but hey at least give us numbers, to show you are doing something, because whether it is true or not - the perception of CCP is that they are not banning people. -------------------------------- CEO of Cosmos Operations Building COSMOS Minmatar BPC's and supplying Sleeper components
Fly Catcher	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:09:00 - [54] CCP do remove macro'ers they just don't remove farmers. A farmer can easily control half a dozen accounts without macro's and even if they did employ a can dragging macro it could be hard to prove. The farmer is doing nothing wrong by mining but if they sell the ore / minerals / isk for RL cash they are and can be punished. Checking up on that is harder in my opinion but not impossible. Best time spent would be devs writing routines to pick up on unusual activity but that isn't always possible with other pressing needs. I could say ban people who are active for more than 16 hours a day routinely but maybe they already do, and farmers avoid this by rotating accounts. I believe 100% that if CCP had a 'stop isk farmers' button they would press it but they don't, they have a 'stop developing the game and work on possible game breaking fixes to stop farmers' button and understandably would rather they didn't have to press it.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:26:00 - [55] Originally by: phi norm i would say how does it effect what you do in game? really answer this honestly. do you believ that if all ISK selling miners were removed from the game that mineral prices would soar and you'd be the only guy sat in a barge......i never pay much attention to the min market how much has it crashed over the last whatever???? Well I have been playing for 2 years and 4 months... and I started out as a Miner and producer in the game, I did have some skills for fighting as I did lvl 3 missions for a while when I where bored of mining. Then lvl 4 missions came in the game and I moved up to that as well and needed more battleskills, when I got bored of missions I moved to do Mining and Productions and usually I just sold my minerals. I remember that in the beginning we used to get like 69 isk for isogen no worries there where no miningbarges and the cruisers did not have miningbonuses either we mined it in thorax and megathrons. Later a boom in both people and prices came into the game at the time we could sell Isogen for like 140 isk a unit, and Trit was at around 3 isk... (sometimes very close to 3 isk), it was great for us miners and it was worth it to do the mining. Then came a increased amount of macro/isk farmers into the game... I mean we who did mining where hit bad by these. And nobody can claim that Minerking01 (and several numbers up) is NOT macromining because when I first encountered them they where 4-5 people, 3 that where using minerking and 2 haulers. And at the time I where so frustrated that I took a hauler and competed with their haulers to steal the ore (before the can flagging) and I raced their hauler all the time, NOBODY complained from them, for 3 days I did that and at day one I took ore (kernite) worth 110 000 Isogen and nobody would loose 110 000 isogen without complaining, or notice when I pop their container just infront of their hauler without complaining in local... nobody. I have ofcourse sent a petition .. well several petitions about this particular farmer and guess what... he is still there!!!! I still got a list of about 70 nicknames of farmers from Amarr region alone.. (the systems around Amarr). What did the macroers do for my game ? they chased me away from something I liked, prices of minerals have dropped alot and it basically forced me out of miningbusiness and over to be a full time mission*****, wich now btw is just as bad as macroers according to alot on this forum. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Metropolis Princess	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:31:00 - [56] Edited by: Metropolis Princess on 28/06/2006 10:35:35 The only thing CCP did in regards to macroers was to make it so trail accounts could no longer train certain skills. Anyone who wants to open up multiple accounts soley to macro now has to pay CCP a monthly subscription to train those mining realated skills. The fact that CCP didn't make mining more interactive or remove a trial players ability to hide in the sanctury of npc corps speaks volumes for where CCP's mindset is..... their bank account. As far as they're concerned, macroing isn't a problem as long as those doing it are paying subscription fees. Initially those doing it where using trial accounts (ergo no money for CCP). They soon sorted that little loophole out didn't they! CCP: You need to take a leaf out of Blizzards book and show your playerbase that you do care about those legitimate players amongst us that play the game in a fair spirit and don't cheat to get ahead. Either enforce your EULA or ammend it and legalise third-party programs for everyone.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Metropolis Princess The only thing CCP did in regards to macroers was to make it so trail accounts could no longer train certain skills. Anyone who wants to open up multiple accounts soley to macro now has to pay CCP a monthly subscription to train those mining realated skills. The fact that CCP didn't make mining more interactive or remove a trial players ability to hide in the sanctury of npc corps speaks volumes for where CCP's mindset is..... their bank account. As far as they're concerned, macroing isn't a problem as long as those doing it are paying subscription fees. Initially those doing it where using trial accounts (ergo no money for CCP). They soon sorted that little loophole out didn't they! Exactly .. and that is the very sad truth... and CCP will NEVER respond to this. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
phi norm	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:51:00 - [58] Originally by: James Duar ..........Ever wondered why it's almost impossible to make good money from ice mining these days? because ice fields exsist in >0.4
Lo3d3R	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:03:00 - [59] Well the simple solution would be an automatic ban-counter under the EVE-Insider header, then we can click every now and then, and see progress good idea yes/no/stfu ____________________ Eating Chopped Bear
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:04:00 - [60] Originally by: Lo3d3R Well the simple solution would be an automatic ban-counter under the EVE-Insider header, then we can click every now and then, and see progress good idea yes/no/stfu I vote for this. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero

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