EVE Search - If they can do it...

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

If they can do it...

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
bohda	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:17:00 - [1] Then why do we see so many threads saying that CCP can't/won't? I'm not really one to come on to the forums and complain, to be honest I'm an infrequent forum poster but I do read the forums regularly and see the massive amount of threads complaining that nothing has been done about cheating in game. Whilst bored at work today I happened acroos the following news snippet: Quote: Warcraft closes down game cheats More than 30,000 player accounts have been closed in the online game World of Warcraft, for alleged cheating. The game's developers, Blizzard, said that many of the account holders had been using third-party programs to farm gold and other items in the game. Players had been selling the virtual items for profit in the real world. Square-Enix, the makers of Final Fantasy XI, said they have also suspended more than 250 accounts for similar offences. Source: BBC Technology News Now this is the second time I've seen something about WoW and tackling cheats, if memory serves me right they have code embeded in their clientside software which detects and inspects any 3rd party software running on a players' computer. I believe that they have a list of programmes you can use for example TS and instead use the "snooper" to find macro's etc. I'm aware that the article says "alleged cheating" but in a case like this, if a 3rd party programme was detected running in the background, I'd say the burden of proof is on the user to prove it's not a contravention of the EULA. So if there is a technical way we can cut down, detter or down right stop players who don't feel the EULA applies to them, is there a way CCP can implement this? But more importantly, if it effectively works as spyware on our machines but cut's down abuse of the game we all love so much, do we, the players, want it? Despite being an absolute nut about computer security I'd agree to let CCP run such a programme on my machine if it did the game some good and they were completely open about what they were putting in place even if they didn't say how it worked (we wouldn't want someone coming up with a counter measure). *Oderint Dum Metuant*
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:29:00 - [2] Well the sad truth .. apart from a few banning early in the game (as far as I can remember being mentioned in the forum), the only thing after that CCP have done is to make sure that atleast Macrominers and iskfarmers have to PAY CCP for their account. That was their "Big" change ... Also they make a number about NOT posting about it because it is a matter between the banned account and CCP (wich is okey btw but still they can mention if they have banned a large number of accounts). ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:41:00 - [3] CCP just does not have the manpower... Blizzard makes a hell of a lot more money than CCP, and this is one of the things they can do with that money, CCP simply can't afford it, so the game suffers... Wait until the China server is up and running, Tranq will get even less attention... And why CCP is so secretive when it comes to cheaters is beyond me, they should post all the cheaters names and alts names as well... Need to start banning & calling out these bastards... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Bhaal Blizzard makes a hell of a lot more money than CCP, and this is one of the things they can do with that money, CCP simply can't afford it, so the game suffers... Wait until the China server is up and running, then CCP will finally be able to afford more manpower to the banning of cheaters on TQ. Fixed. --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
Sensor Error	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:46:00 - [5] Originally by: Bhaal Wait until the China server is up and running, Tranq will get even less attention... NO IT WON'T. GAH. CCP arn't running the China server, some company in China is paying CCP for the rights to run the server, apart from the initial setup and content patches, CCP won't have anything to DO with the sodding China server... RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!! ------------------------------------------ Dev Responses to common questions
bohda	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Bhaal Blizzard makes a hell of a lot more money than CCP, and this is one of the things they can do with that money, CCP simply can't afford it, so the game suffers... Wait until the China server is up and running, then CCP will finally be able to afford more manpower to the banning of cheaters on TQ. Fixed. I think I prefer your version! *Oderint Dum Metuant*
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 17:49:00 - [7] Edited by: Bhaal on 27/06/2006 17:49:47 Originally by: Sensor Error Originally by: Bhaal Wait until the China server is up and running, Tranq will get even less attention... NO IT WON'T. GAH. CCP arn't running the China server, some company in China is paying CCP for the rights to run the server, apart from the initial setup and content patches, CCP won't have anything to DO with the sodding China server... What makes you guys think that CCP won't need to spend that income running support for the China server? You think this company who bought the license will be able to handle everything? They will have similar problems to what Tranq has, only x10 more players... I won't hold my breath... Will CCP also have the guts to ban 10,000 out of 130,000 accounts? Most likely accounts that spend serious cash on GTC's? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:00:00 - [8] hey hey, ive found a couple of nice little quiet systems to mine. Both had a sudden influx of macroers. Both were reported ingame under exploit. both sets of macroers vanished and i havent seen them again. Has anyone considere that CCP just havent been public about who they have banned and how many ?
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Bhaal on 27/06/2006 18:04:31 Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey, ive found a couple of nice little quiet systems to mine. Both had a sudden influx of macroers. Both were reported ingame under exploit. both sets of macroers vanished and i havent seen them again. Has anyone considere that CCP just havent been public about who they have banned and how many ? Yes we have thought about it, and why wouldn't they? Why not name the offenders to make sure they NEVER come back? What's wrong with keeping the playerbase up to date? Why is CCP so secretive on any disciplinary action taken? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:11:00 - [10] Because that would be against their own rules? --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Tachy Because that would be against their own rules? Rules to protect who exactly? Why would this be a rule? Do we hide criminals faces from the public in RL? Why hide them here? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Bhaal CCP just does not have the manpower... Blizzard makes a hell of a lot more money than CCP, and this is one of the things they can do with that money, CCP simply can't afford it, so the game suffers... Wait until the China server is up and running, Tranq will get even less attention... And why CCP is so secretive when it comes to cheaters is beyond me, they should post all the cheaters names and alts names as well... Need to start banning & calling out these bastards... It's hard to tell if you're really that ignorant, or just baiting. You can't just 'post' information about heaters, that opens a legal can of worms unlike anything you can comprehend. The china server is run by a different staff, altho if it hasnt drilled into your thick skull by now, it never will. Ratio-wise, blizzard banning a few thousand accounts is like CCP banning a few hundred. CCP doesn't have the GM staff to ban thousands at a time.

Cathath	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:18:00 - [13] Here is CCP's policy on Suspension and Banning, the relevant section for the questions here is 13.5. One point to make is there is an appeals process available for game bans. If someone had been banned, appealed, had the appeal granted and started playing again, and had also been listed as banned it wouldn't be very fair to them.

Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Bhaal CCP just does not have the manpower... Blizzard makes a hell of a lot more money than CCP, and this is one of the things they can do with that money, CCP simply can't afford it, so the game suffers... Wait until the China server is up and running, Tranq will get even less attention... And why CCP is so secretive when it comes to cheaters is beyond me, they should post all the cheaters names and alts names as well... Need to start banning & calling out these bastards... It's hard to tell if you're really that ignorant, or just baiting. You can't just 'post' information about heaters, that opens a legal can of worms unlike anything you can comprehend. The china server is run by a different staff, altho if it hasnt drilled into your thick skull by now, it never will. Ratio-wise, blizzard banning a few thousand accounts is like CCP banning a few hundred. CCP doesn't have the GM staff to ban thousands at a time. How is posting character names of ppl who violated the EULA illegal? WTF? On the China server, we'll see... We were told EVE would never be shared, look what happend... We'll see... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:21:00 - [15] Originally by: Cathath Here is CCP's policy on Suspension and Banning, the relevant section for the questions here is 13.5. One point to make is there is an appeals process available for game bans. If someone had been banned, appealed, had the appeal granted and started playing again, and had also been listed as banned it wouldn't be very fair to them. So, don't name and shame until after the appeals process... Subscribers want to see results, not closed doors... Many players think nothing is being done... If there is, how the hell would we ever find out? The iron curtain is very damn thick... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:34:00 - [16] actually in RL lots of offenders have names and faces excluded. No names etc can be published in the news untill the case is closed and the offender is found guilty etc. As well as not all crimes being public domain. No crime committed automaticly gets your name published ito the public either.
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:34:00 - [17] actually in RL lots of offenders have names and faces excluded. No names etc can be published in the news untill the case is closed and the offender is found guilty etc. As well as not all crimes being public domain. No crime committed automaticly gets your name published ito the public either.
Kylania	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:38:00 - [18] Just because there isn't a BBC article about EVE game bans, doesn't mean no one gets banned. We just don't need to know when someone gets banned. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| Visual Building Guide (Both work in game too!)
bohda	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Kylania Just because there isn't a BBC article about EVE game bans, doesn't mean no one gets banned. We just don't need to know when someone gets banned. I realise that but wouldn't you like to know that there was progress being made? But anyway back to my origional question, would you support the use of a programme to detect 3rd party programmes on your machine whilst you're playing? *Oderint Dum Metuant*
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Kylania Just because there isn't a BBC article about EVE game bans, doesn't mean no one gets banned. We just don't need to know when someone gets banned. Why not? Why do we not need to know that CCP is taking care of the problem so many players petition? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:44:00 - [21] Originally by: bohda Originally by: Kylania Just because there isn't a BBC article about EVE game bans, doesn't mean no one gets banned. We just don't need to know when someone gets banned. I realise that but wouldn't you like to know that there was progress being made? But anyway back to my origional question, would you support the use of a programme to detect 3rd party programmes on your machine whilst you're playing? Yes. This will have to become standard on all future MMO's. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Eternal Fury	Posted - 2006.06.27 18:47:00 - [22] I don't know about you guys, but the day that CCP has software monitoring what I have running in the background on my computer is the day I cancel my subscription. It's not a tin foil hat thing, it's the simple reason that most of those programs take months to get right, and in the mean time, people can't use certain hardware/software that is completely legit, becuase their software says it is bad. Any of you remember how many WoW users were banned becuase the "security" software Blizzard instituted said so many people were useing "bad" software. I don't want to have my account banned becuase some piece of software says the Macro I use in a winamp plugin is against the EULA. Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp, Big Fun. Wanna join?

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:17:00 - [23] Our goal is not to shard EVE, but there has never been a definate no to that ever happening. If it can be avoided, then it will be. However, that is not the topic for this thread, so please move on. Wrangler Assistant Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads Knowledge Base - Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions

Hllaxiu	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:21:00 - [24] 30,000 for them is like 840 for us... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Hllaxiu 30,000 for them is like 840 for us... I'd venture to guess Blizzard runs a tighter ship, and the percentage of farmers/ISK sellers in EVE is much greater... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:30:00 - [26] Put those you're 100% sure to break the rules AND you petitioned onto your friends list and check how long they last. Don't forget to bring proof when you're petitioning them. You don't need to know the pilot names at all. When they're banned for a bigger reason than first time name calling in local, they're gone. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
AmSo Happy	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:38:00 - [27] I think you are forgetting that Blizzard has 6.000.000+ subscribers and a 30.000 bans is what? 0.5% of the population in all. Personally I think CCP bans about the same number of people in percentages(0.5%) as I have seen macroers disappear after being petitioned. They at least seem more proactive than in the previous MMO I played(FFXI) where the GMs actually banned the legit players over the botters.
Vincent Gaines	Posted - 2006.06.27 19:48:00 - [28] Macros are rare these days, the problem is ISK farming. 99.9% are from China. Pull china from TQ and you solve much of the farming. They have a server closed off from us...it's not like it's hurting them. As to CCP's manpower, it takes no time for a GM to hop into macrointel for a few minutes.
SGXiphias	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:09:00 - [29] Edited by: SGXiphias on 27/06/2006 20:09:44 yeah its interesting, i have reported an entire corporation of 4 players with a total of 30 accounts for macromining and using exploits to mine in 0.0. All they have to do is pop in a polaris frigs and its obvious when the NPC's are 500Km away from the belt and whole corp is strip mining the belts. It is killing the economy and CCP does nothing about it. Hell i had a private convo with there CEO, and he admitted to me he was using exploits and the GM's still didnt ban him.
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2006.06.27 20:57:00 - [30] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 27/06/2006 20:57:10 Originally by: bohda Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Bhaal Blizzard makes a hell of a lot more money than CCP, and this is one of the things they can do with that money, CCP simply can't afford it, so the game suffers... Wait until the China server is up and running, then CCP will finally be able to afford more manpower to the banning of cheaters on TQ. Fixed. I think I prefer your version! qft btw die wow die ! join col ! now
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:00:00 - [31] Originally by: R3dSh1ft i know its old news, but to reassure you all just a little bit: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=907&tid=1 I fail to understand why they don't perma-ban anyone caught using a macro... Is CCP running an MMO or an MM Anonymous rehab program? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Vincent Gaines	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:16:00 - [32] as I said earlier... most are no longer macros, but farmers using multiple accounts.

wystler	Posted - 2006.06.27 21:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Bhaal What makes you guys think that CCP won't need to spend that income running support for the China server? You think this company who bought the license will be able to handle everything? They will have similar problems to what Tranq has, only x10 more players... CCP license EVE to another company in China. The company pays a license fee to use the EVE technology. I believe this company also owns the Serenity hardware, not CCP. This company provides all GMs and bills Chinese citizens locally. CCP do not provide GM level support on Serenity. I'm sure CCP will offer advice on certain issues, and I'm sure to a point the two GM teams will liase with each other on exploit issues as in theory any exploit someone finds on Tranquility will also exist on Serenity given they will be on the same patch level. The above is stated to the best of my personal knowledge and is NOT an official statement on behalf of CCP, but if you read the information published about EVE China the above facts seem to be quite obvious eve-crc.net \| forum rules \| [email protected] Official keeper of the smilie. Yarr!

Jacobz	Posted - 2006.06.27 22:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Hllaxiu 30,000 for them is like 840 for us... I'd venture to guess Blizzard runs a tighter ship, and the percentage of farmers/ISK sellers in EVE is much greater...
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 22:45:00 - [35] Originally by: wystler Originally by: Bhaal What makes you guys think that CCP won't need to spend that income running support for the China server? You think this company who bought the license will be able to handle everything? They will have similar problems to what Tranq has, only x10 more players... CCP license EVE to another company in China. The company pays a license fee to use the EVE technology. I believe this company also owns the Serenity hardware, not CCP. This company provides all GMs and bills Chinese citizens locally. CCP do not provide GM level support on Serenity. I'm sure CCP will offer advice on certain issues, and I'm sure to a point the two GM teams will liase with each other on exploit issues as in theory any exploit someone finds on Tranquility will also exist on Serenity given they will be on the same patch level. The above is stated to the best of my personal knowledge and is NOT an official statement on behalf of CCP, but if you read the information published about EVE China the above facts seem to be quite obvious Is this a one-time fee, like buying the license to an ID Games engine, or are we talking a lease? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Drizit	Posted - 2006.06.27 23:45:00 - [36] Back to the original topic. I'd say something has obviously been done recently because I have been out mining Pyrox and Kern in my local system and hardly seen a macroer for days now. I can actually go into the belt and find some ore other than Veld to mine lately. It could also have something to do with several kessies I have kitted for combat for occasions when I have seen them in the past. --
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.06.27 23:46:00 - [37] Originally by: Bhaal Do we hide criminals faces from the public in RL? Yes, we do, and rightly so. You might not in your country, but we do. There's no other way to stop idiot vigilantes from taking vengeance. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 01:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Bhaal Do we hide criminals faces from the public in RL? Yes, we do, and rightly so. You might not in your country, but we do. There's no other way to stop idiot vigilantes from taking vengeance. Well we don't in my counrty... Unless the law enforcement plans on using the guy as an informant, or there is national security issues... Other than that, the criminals face is plastered all over the news... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Viggor	Posted - 2006.06.28 01:55:00 - [39] Originally by: Bhaal I fail to understand why they don't perma-ban anyone caught using a macro... You don't believe in second chances?
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.28 03:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: wystler Originally by: Bhaal What makes you guys think that CCP won't need to spend that income running support for the China server? You think this company who bought the license will be able to handle everything? They will have similar problems to what Tranq has, only x10 more players... CCP license EVE to another company in China. The company pays a license fee to use the EVE technology. I believe this company also owns the Serenity hardware, not CCP. This company provides all GMs and bills Chinese citizens locally. CCP do not provide GM level support on Serenity. I'm sure CCP will offer advice on certain issues, and I'm sure to a point the two GM teams will liase with each other on exploit issues as in theory any exploit someone finds on Tranquility will also exist on Serenity given they will be on the same patch level. The above is stated to the best of my personal knowledge and is NOT an official statement on behalf of CCP, but if you read the information published about EVE China the above facts seem to be quite obvious Is this a one-time fee, like buying the license to an ID Games engine, or are we talking a lease? I'd imagine in the MMO world, any contract CCP has with them is a lease of some sort, with payment being a flatrate and a % based on income from the china subscribers. Plus since apparently some of CCP's staff went to china for this as well, them being there would if nothing else, have a charge for advising and helping them run the game.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.28 03:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Bhaal Do we hide criminals faces from the public in RL? Yes, we do, and rightly so. You might not in your country, but we do. There's no other way to stop idiot vigilantes from taking vengeance. Well we don't in my counrty... Unless the law enforcement plans on using the guy as an informant, or there is national security issues... Other than that, the criminals face is plastered all over the news... No, a small fraction of the high-ratings grabbers are plastered. I know when some cops were busted for illegal gamlbing in my area, that was on lockdown more than a prison. Same goes for pretty much all mob-related crime. Megan's law doesn't cover the entire criminal world you know.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 03:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Viggor Originally by: Bhaal I fail to understand why they don't perma-ban anyone caught using a macro... You don't believe in second chances? For a blatant violation of the EULA that damages the persistant universe for the rest of the playerbase? Why give a second chance? They have already proven their lack of concern for the rest of the EVE community, why the hell should I want someone like that to get a second chance? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Cylynex	Posted - 2006.06.28 03:27:00 - [43] Edited by: Cylynex on 28/06/2006 03:28:01 Originally by: Sensor Error CCP have banned more than 600 accounts, that much I'm sure of... Have they? I'd love to see your source on that. This is EVE, not WoW. Every man for himself. Get yourself a bigger ship and go BBQPWN them. It's more fun anyway.
phi norm	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:07:00 - [44] Originally by: Bhaal For a blatant violation of the EULA that damages the persistant universe for the rest of the playerbase? Why give a second chance? They have already proven their lack of concern for the rest of the EVE community, why the hell should I want someone like that to get a second chance? I oftem wonder about this....not only in eve but in other MMO's i have played. How exactly does someone farming, then someone buying isk or items for RL cash actually make the game less enjoyable for me. To date it never has, although one could argue that if in eve one was in a prolonged war then economics is an influencing factor, but then it makes no odds to me if they bought that isk or have a fleet of miners or some nice BPO's paying for there effort. You see it just dosent matter to my enjoyment.....sure you could argue about how the economy gets fubar'd, but in reallity it hasn't, and anyway this only accelerates the eventuall economic situation. People say that farmers/buyers have screwed with the economy in Lineage II, well no it would have ended like that anyway because of how it works. Anywho remember its about your enjoyment iv'e seen a few of your posts on a number of threads latley and you appear to face problems at every turn..... me.....well Phi Norm graduated from the Acadamy about January 05 i think i currently have 123,000isk to my name and i've loved every minute.
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:17:00 - [45] People farming the minerals for money introduces an unpleasant real world wealth situation to the game - that is with enough money you can buy however must ISK you want, and the minerals market isn't worth anything to me, the legitimate miner. I'm of a different opinion on selling GTC's incidentally however, since in that case ISK changes hands but for the benefit of someone else continuing to play. It's marginally more legitimate - in the former case I'm being screwed out of my in-game success so someone else can make money in what is effectively at my expense. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:26:00 - [46] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Bhaal CCP just does not have the manpower... Blizzard makes a hell of a lot more money than CCP, and this is one of the things they can do with that money, CCP simply can't afford it, so the game suffers... Wait until the China server is up and running, Tranq will get even less attention... And why CCP is so secretive when it comes to cheaters is beyond me, they should post all the cheaters names and alts names as well... Need to start banning & calling out these bastards... It's hard to tell if you're really that ignorant, or just baiting. You can't just 'post' information about heaters, that opens a legal can of worms unlike anything you can comprehend. The china server is run by a different staff, altho if it hasnt drilled into your thick skull by now, it never will. Ratio-wise, blizzard banning a few thousand accounts is like CCP banning a few hundred. CCP doesn't have the GM staff to ban thousands at a time. How is posting character names of ppl who violated the EULA illegal? WTF? The simple answer is that anyone whos appeal is approved gets their name cleared. We need a monthly Ban-Blog with the names of everyone who was warned/banned (and the duration of the ban and what it was for). At the start of the blog will be a list of people who's appeals were successful. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
phi norm	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:35:00 - [47] Originally by: James Duar People farming the minerals for money introduces an unpleasant real world wealth situation to the game - that is with enough money you can buy however must ISK you want, and the minerals market isn't worth anything to me, the legitimate miner. I'm being screwed out of my in-game success so someone else can make money in what is effectively at my expense. So let me get this straight......people are farming minerals for billions of isk to sell for $$$$.......but when you farm minerals its worthless. you see i just dont get it. or is the problem you really have that someone spent $100 dollars on 500mill isk....something you cant afford to do or dont want to do. then again, i would say how does it effect what you do in game? really answer this honestly. do you believ that if all ISK selling miners were removed from the game that mineral prices would soar and you'd be the only guy sat in a barge......i never pay much attention to the min market how much has it crashed over the last whatever????
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:42:00 - [48] Originally by: phi norm Originally by: James Duar People farming the minerals for money introduces an unpleasant real world wealth situation to the game - that is with enough money you can buy however must ISK you want, and the minerals market isn't worth anything to me, the legitimate miner. I'm being screwed out of my in-game success so someone else can make money in what is effectively at my expense. So let me get this straight......people are farming minerals for billions of isk to sell for $$$$.......but when you farm minerals its worthless. you see i just dont get it. or is the problem you really have that someone spent $100 dollars on 500mill isk....something you cant afford to do or dont want to do. then again, i would say how does it effect what you do in game? really answer this honestly. do you believ that if all ISK selling miners were removed from the game that mineral prices would soar and you'd be the only guy sat in a barge......i never pay much attention to the min market how much has it crashed over the last whatever???? Why should I have to pay real world money to obtain game world money? Most of us would much rather spend it on things like food, shelter and computer upgrades. But that's not the point. The point is that the people doing the farming are destroying the market for those of us who mine for our ISK in game, in order for them to make real world money. Farmer's run 4-5 accounts 23/7, and while there'll be the occasional legit player doing that, most are doing it just for the ISK to convert to RL money. There's no way to compete with that, because they're just macroing it in. Ever wondered why it's almost impossible to make good money from ice mining these days? --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Tsukiko Kuro	Posted - 2006.06.28 08:51:00 - [49] Originally by: Viggor Originally by: Bhaal I fail to understand why they don't perma-ban anyone caught using a macro... You don't believe in second chances? No I don't, certainly not then its due to using a macro or selling/buying ISK.
Arath Veduran	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:06:00 - [50] Originally by: James Duar Farmer's run 4-5 accounts 23/7, and while there'll be the occasional legit player doing that, most are doing it just for the ISK to convert to RL money. There's no way to compete with that, because they're just macroing it in. Ever wondered why it's almost impossible to make good money from ice mining these days? The way to compete is to mine better ores. What can the macro miners mine? Veldspar, scordite, pyrox, plagio, omber and kernite if they can find it. They're not going to go into lowsec, so no jaspet, crokite, bistot, mercoxit, etc. That's how you compete. Get down into lowsec, and mine better ores. You'll be raking in the ISK.
Niraven	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:12:00 - [51] Quote: Now this is the second time I've seen something about WoW and tackling cheats, if memory serves me right they have code embeded in their clientside software which detects and inspects any 3rd party software running on a players' computer. I believe that they have a list of programmes you can use for example TS and instead use the "snooper" to find macro's etc. Ah, thanks for another good reason not to play WoW. Doesn't surprise me, Blizzard has been known to try stuff like that on occassion. Quote: I'm aware that the article says "alleged cheating" but in a case like this, if a 3rd party programme was detected running in the background, I'd say the burden of proof is on the user to prove it's not a contravention of the EULA. Ah, guilty until proven innocent, or what?
Kay Han	Posted - 2006.06.28 09:26:00 - [52] If CCP implements programms to detect 3rd party software, then this is day is my last. As for WoW.. nobody knows what this programm is doing exactly. Sure it detects 3rd party software. But what else? It¦s just another form of spyware. Nobody wants spyware.. execpt for Millions of 14 year old childs which are playing WoW I¦m sure the dev¦s are working on a good solution against the macroer. Maybe they simply should write thiere own macro. And judge the peeps which are using it. But thats just a thought.... ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
Nexus1972	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:08:00 - [53] I dare anyone to say macro mining isnt a problem in eve: Ebay Sale 1 (68 buyers) Ebay Sale 2 (multiple buyers - multiple games) Ebay sales 3 (488 feedback!!!!) And thats just a five minute quick browse on this list Its time CCP intoduced a snooper to stop this stuff happening. Or if they are banning lots of people give us a weekly/monthly count of how many have been banned for macroing. I'd prefer to name and shame the people and the corps they were in, but hey at least give us numbers, to show you are doing something, because whether it is true or not - the perception of CCP is that they are not banning people. -------------------------------- CEO of Cosmos Operations Building COSMOS Minmatar BPC's and supplying Sleeper components
Fly Catcher	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:09:00 - [54] CCP do remove macro'ers they just don't remove farmers. A farmer can easily control half a dozen accounts without macro's and even if they did employ a can dragging macro it could be hard to prove. The farmer is doing nothing wrong by mining but if they sell the ore / minerals / isk for RL cash they are and can be punished. Checking up on that is harder in my opinion but not impossible. Best time spent would be devs writing routines to pick up on unusual activity but that isn't always possible with other pressing needs. I could say ban people who are active for more than 16 hours a day routinely but maybe they already do, and farmers avoid this by rotating accounts. I believe 100% that if CCP had a 'stop isk farmers' button they would press it but they don't, they have a 'stop developing the game and work on possible game breaking fixes to stop farmers' button and understandably would rather they didn't have to press it.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:26:00 - [55] Originally by: phi norm i would say how does it effect what you do in game? really answer this honestly. do you believ that if all ISK selling miners were removed from the game that mineral prices would soar and you'd be the only guy sat in a barge......i never pay much attention to the min market how much has it crashed over the last whatever???? Well I have been playing for 2 years and 4 months... and I started out as a Miner and producer in the game, I did have some skills for fighting as I did lvl 3 missions for a while when I where bored of mining. Then lvl 4 missions came in the game and I moved up to that as well and needed more battleskills, when I got bored of missions I moved to do Mining and Productions and usually I just sold my minerals. I remember that in the beginning we used to get like 69 isk for isogen no worries there where no miningbarges and the cruisers did not have miningbonuses either we mined it in thorax and megathrons. Later a boom in both people and prices came into the game at the time we could sell Isogen for like 140 isk a unit, and Trit was at around 3 isk... (sometimes very close to 3 isk), it was great for us miners and it was worth it to do the mining. Then came a increased amount of macro/isk farmers into the game... I mean we who did mining where hit bad by these. And nobody can claim that Minerking01 (and several numbers up) is NOT macromining because when I first encountered them they where 4-5 people, 3 that where using minerking and 2 haulers. And at the time I where so frustrated that I took a hauler and competed with their haulers to steal the ore (before the can flagging) and I raced their hauler all the time, NOBODY complained from them, for 3 days I did that and at day one I took ore (kernite) worth 110 000 Isogen and nobody would loose 110 000 isogen without complaining, or notice when I pop their container just infront of their hauler without complaining in local... nobody. I have ofcourse sent a petition .. well several petitions about this particular farmer and guess what... he is still there!!!! I still got a list of about 70 nicknames of farmers from Amarr region alone.. (the systems around Amarr). What did the macroers do for my game ? they chased me away from something I liked, prices of minerals have dropped alot and it basically forced me out of miningbusiness and over to be a full time mission*****, wich now btw is just as bad as macroers according to alot on this forum. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Metropolis Princess	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:31:00 - [56] Edited by: Metropolis Princess on 28/06/2006 10:35:35 The only thing CCP did in regards to macroers was to make it so trail accounts could no longer train certain skills. Anyone who wants to open up multiple accounts soley to macro now has to pay CCP a monthly subscription to train those mining realated skills. The fact that CCP didn't make mining more interactive or remove a trial players ability to hide in the sanctury of npc corps speaks volumes for where CCP's mindset is..... their bank account. As far as they're concerned, macroing isn't a problem as long as those doing it are paying subscription fees. Initially those doing it where using trial accounts (ergo no money for CCP). They soon sorted that little loophole out didn't they! CCP: You need to take a leaf out of Blizzards book and show your playerbase that you do care about those legitimate players amongst us that play the game in a fair spirit and don't cheat to get ahead. Either enforce your EULA or ammend it and legalise third-party programs for everyone.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:35:00 - [57] Originally by: Metropolis Princess The only thing CCP did in regards to macroers was to make it so trail accounts could no longer train certain skills. Anyone who wants to open up multiple accounts soley to macro now has to pay CCP a monthly subscription to train those mining realated skills. The fact that CCP didn't make mining more interactive or remove a trial players ability to hide in the sanctury of npc corps speaks volumes for where CCP's mindset is..... their bank account. As far as they're concerned, macroing isn't a problem as long as those doing it are paying subscription fees. Initially those doing it where using trial accounts (ergo no money for CCP). They soon sorted that little loophole out didn't they! Exactly .. and that is the very sad truth... and CCP will NEVER respond to this. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
phi norm	Posted - 2006.06.28 10:51:00 - [58] Originally by: James Duar ..........Ever wondered why it's almost impossible to make good money from ice mining these days? because ice fields exsist in >0.4
Lo3d3R	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:03:00 - [59] Well the simple solution would be an automatic ban-counter under the EVE-Insider header, then we can click every now and then, and see progress good idea yes/no/stfu ____________________ Eating Chopped Bear
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:04:00 - [60] Originally by: Lo3d3R Well the simple solution would be an automatic ban-counter under the EVE-Insider header, then we can click every now and then, and see progress good idea yes/no/stfu I vote for this. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Verone	Posted - 2006.06.28 11:48:00 - [61] Originally by: Wrangler Our goal is not to shard EVE, but there has never been a definate no to that ever happening. If it can be avoided, then it will be. However, that is not the topic for this thread, so please move on. The day this happens is the day I cancel my accounts VETO RECRUITMENT
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:20:00 - [62] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Wrangler Our goal is not to shard EVE, but there has never been a definate no to that ever happening. If it can be avoided, then it will be. However, that is not the topic for this thread, so please move on. The day this happens is the day I cancel my accounts Unfortunately, computer hardware/connection hardware & service will force the issue if EVE keeps growing... Either sharding or system population limits, what's worse? ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Coupo	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:37:00 - [63] a really big galaxy? - I Shoot first, ask questions about your veldspar mining technique later
bohda	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:46:00 - [64] Originally by: Niraven Quote: I'm aware that the article says "alleged cheating" but in a case like this, if a 3rd party programme was detected running in the background, I'd say the burden of proof is on the user to prove it's not a contravention of the EULA. Ah, guilty until proven innocent, or what? I would suggest that detection of a 3rd party programme running gives you reasonable grounds to suspect/believe that a breach of EULA was taking place, which gives you sufficient evidence to deduce guilt. I've seen RGS/RGB cases prosecuted succesfully in a court of law. If you then appeal that ruling it's for the player appealing to disporve the evidence and therefore prove innocence. Quote: To date it never has, although one could argue that if in eve one was in a prolonged war then economics is an influencing factor, but then it makes no odds to me if they bought that isk or have a fleet of miners or some nice BPO's paying for there effort. I can attack the mining fleet, or war dec the corp that is providing the mining fleet for my enemy/competitors and I could attempt to infiltarte an alt into the corp to steal their funds/bpo's (if I was so inclined) or hire professional corp thieves to do it for me. I CAN'T attack NPC Corp Macroers in empire without additional harm to myself or my corp/alliance, I CAN'T legally attack the websites that provide isk selling services. In reality I could afford to buy isk myself and gain the same out of game advantage another player has over me but I already pay enough for this game and have the ability to make my own isk. I just wonder what happened to the level playing field that players effect and control to their advantage in game, it throws out my ability to attack my enemy if he has an untouchable source of isk. As a side thought I've had at work today, what if the macro detector didn't ban players but instead flagged them -10? Then, instead of CCP policing the game, players are given the power to directly police and enforce the rules without taking a hit themselves for being EULA abiding and have a passion for the game and the way CCP intended it to be played? New mini proffesion of "Macro Hunter" anyone? *Oderint Dum Metuant*
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.28 12:47:00 - [65] Originally by: Coupo a really big galaxy? That won't stop the 4000 players Sunday shopping in Jita, or the 400 vs. 400 fleet battles in 0.0... I guess Serenity will be a good test... If they're going to have 500k subscribers and 100k users online at the same time for launch, it will certainly be a strain on the starting system nodes... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Yumi Katanawe	Posted - 2006.06.28 13:33:00 - [66] Edited by: Yumi Katanawe on 28/06/2006 13:33:26 Originally by: bohda As a side thought I've had at work today, what if the macro detector didn't ban players but instead flagged them -10? Then, instead of CCP policing the game, players are given the power to directly police and enforce the rules without taking a hit themselves for being EULA abiding and have a passion for the game and the way CCP intended it to be played? New mini proffesion of "Macro Hunter" anyone? GENIOUS! Needs to be implemented Too bad at -10 concord would gank them before you could even notice.
Major Death	Posted - 2006.06.28 13:34:00 - [67] If you want to find ISK Famers go to Inoue or the surrounding system. Behold the silly numbers of cloned ISK mission farmers, all on trial accounts. And while you there you can see the fleets of macro miners working the belts. But don't waste time clicking the petition button cause nothing is going to happen.
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.06.28 14:26:00 - [68] Edited by: Too Kind on 28/06/2006 14:31:10 I'm all for banning cheaters, but I also wonder, how often innocent people get banned by these games companies, who go on a witch hunt and ban that many accounts at once. Ok, if they detect a cheat software safely, then there is the 100% proof. But if they use e.g. some heuristics to find isk sellers in EVE etc. I really hope that they are good and don't show 'false positives'. E.g. I don't wanna get banned someday for moving isk between my 4 accounts (mains and alts), which is just normal procedure, if you use e.g. an alt char for selling loot in Jita, buying a GTC for your main or if you need all the isk on another char to buy something. I really hate it, when people don't play by the rules like cheat, exploit or farm to sell something for real currency, but banning innocent players would be really bad. I really hope that they take enough time to investigate each case. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
bohda	Posted - 2006.06.28 14:28:00 - [69] Originally by: Yumi Katanawe Edited by: Yumi Katanawe on 28/06/2006 13:33:26 Originally by: bohda As a side thought I've had at work today, what if the macro detector didn't ban players but instead flagged them -10? Then, instead of CCP policing the game, players are given the power to directly police and enforce the rules without taking a hit themselves for being EULA abiding and have a passion for the game and the way CCP intended it to be played? New mini proffesion of "Macro Hunter" anyone? GENIOUS! Needs to be implemented Too bad at -10 concord would gank them before you could even notice. Good point well presented, let's have them at least at -5 or lower then. Maybe an incremental Sec hit verytime they log on with the 3rd party programme running *Oderint Dum Metuant*
Cheyenne Shadowborn	Posted - 2006.06.28 14:49:00 - [70] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 28/06/2006 14:50:51 While I agree with your post in general, spying on a customer's client PC is not a good thing(tm) and Blizzard will probably rot in hell for this alone, united in the "don't" area of Dante's City of Dis along with the makers of Starforce, and Bill Gates, and all Electronic Arts executives. My $0.02 ----------------------------------------------------- "At least freelancer keeps the physics realistic." -- SINKFIST
Drizit	Posted - 2006.06.28 17:11:00 - [71] While having a spy in the client may not appeal to everyone, maybe this is the only real way to go. Using the client to ensure that the players doesn't cheat is not a new idea and has always caused a lot of controversy but it happens already and will continue to happen. Take this scenario: I stay at your house and pay rent. I then steal your walkman and sell it to your wife. Since the walkman has not left your house, you are unaware that I have actually stolen it. However, your wife has just given me back the rent money so I am living at your house for free. That is effectively what Macro miners are doing to CCP. They pay CCP for the account and then steal their in-game items to make the money back. Since the items have not left the game, CCP are unaware that they have been stolen. These macro miners are paying nothing to play this game and probably forcing other players to quit due to the inability to compete with them. Ore, mineral and ice prices have dropped so it's getting harder to make a living and even harder for the new players to get a decent start. --
Zachary Bonaparte	Posted - 2006.06.29 14:03:00 - [72] Originally by: SGXiphias Edited by: SGXiphias on 27/06/2006 20:09:44 yeah its interesting, i have reported an entire corporation of 4 players with a total of 30 accounts for macromining and using exploits to mine in 0.0. All they have to do is pop in a polaris frigs and its obvious when the NPC's are 500Km away from the belt and whole corp is strip mining the belts. It is killing the economy and CCP does nothing about it. Hell i had a private convo with there CEO, and he admitted to me he was using exploits and the GM's still didnt ban him. you dont see macro miners lately operating in high security belts because they moved to belts that respawn in missions and some have long been cooperating with alliances out in 0.0 make a big kill macro strip mining the most profitable minerals. their problem used to be asteroids in belts respawn too slowly but in missions you get unlimited asteroids as long as you have the software to farm it. problem solved. theirs. ccp has made a conscious effort to make it harder to earn ISK patch by patch, so it is no wonder to see sales of ISK increase on ebay making this game more attractive to macro miners. kind of like american solution to indians is close them off to reserves so they can not be seen. ccp has closed off macro miners to their personal asteroid belts to reduce whining by legitimate players.

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.