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Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
244
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Posted - 2014.07.11 14:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
For all the rational and intelligent people reading this thread, Ramonas claim that wormhole are safer to mine in than highsec is not true. Wormholes don't have local chat, and when you throw a cloaky nullified T3 in the mix, the miner will often never see the hunter coming and although they can do things to mitigate the risks, they can never stop a new hostile wormhole spawning in the system you're mining in.
As a hunter all you need to do is jump through the wormhole, warp to the ore site and kill the miner... The question is, is it too easy for the hunter and should they have to combat scan the miner so that the interaction is well balanced for both the hunter and the hunted. |
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
244
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Posted - 2014.07.11 14:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote: No, you're wrong because you're wrong. Ramona just kindly stopped by to point it out.
Excellent point! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6146
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Posted - 2014.07.11 14:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
In High Sec you cannot close the gates.
You cannot guard the gates
You cannot bubble the gates
You cannot place a drag bubble filled with cans between you and the gate
You are ALWAYS on local in High Sec, and so cloaking or docking doesnt make you vanish
The belts are very small in High Sec
You also cannot do another, rather important thing that you can do in a WH to prevent your system being invaded.
But apparently, that thing is something that a three-year WHer doesnt need to know and hasnt found out in that time. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
244
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Posted - 2014.07.11 15:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:In High Sec you cannot close the gates.
You cannot guard the gates
You cannot bubble the gates
You cannot place a drag bubble filled with cans between you and the gate
You are ALWAYS on local in High Sec, and so cloaking or docking doesnt make you vanish
The belts are very small in High Sec
You also cannot do another, rather important thing that you can do in a WH to prevent your system being invaded.
But apparently, that thing is something that a three-year WHer doesnt need to know and hasnt found out in that time.
You can't bubble a roaming wormhole that hasn't spawned in your system yet
Bubbles don't stop nullified ships
Bubbles don't drag nullified ships
I'm aware that local exists so i'm not sure what point you are trying to make
You can't stop someone entering your wormhole forever
Apparently
Look i don't want to get into an argument i just wanted you to backup your claims about wormholes being safer to mine in than highsec but if you can't do that, that's fine. Let's just forget you said what you said and move on. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6147
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Posted - 2014.07.11 15:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote: You can't stop someone entering your wormhole forever
Who mentioned forever? You do have to do SOME work, you know
Quinn Corvez wrote:Look i don't want to get into an argument i just wanted you to backup your claims about wormholes being safer to mine in than highsec but if you can't do that, that's fine. Let's just forget you said what you said and move on.
You clearly do
I explained the main reasons why WHs are safer than High Sec, and you discarded them without thought.
Again I'll say, you clearly dont know THE single most important thing about living in a WH, and considering how rude and quirte frankly awful you are being, I dont really have a good reason to tell you what it is because then you might avoid being killed.
So Ill tell you what, you enjoy living in a WH not doing anything because you are scared of bad men coming in.
Ill just keep on having my slaves farm them like they have done up till now. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
94
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Posted - 2014.07.11 15:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
WH mining can be safe, for sure, just like running sites can be safe. Far safer than HS as well. However it takes a lot of preparation and permanent vigilance the entire time to make it. Crashing your static, crashing all K162's, constantly force refreshing the Discovery Scanner. And yes traps and the such can be set up.
Everytime you log in you need to redo all this in case there's been a K162 that only lasted while you were offline. The high likelyhood of messing up one or more steps is what makes it so insanely dangerous. A hunter needs at most a minute to be on top of you from a fresh K162. Not many people (excluding bot assisted ones) can keep up force refreshing the Discovery Scanner constantly like that for hours and hours on end.
Making the Ore's back to Signatures would give that extra layer of protection. It's mostly theoretical protection from a good hunter but it's better than nothing.
It makes it more interesting for Hunters too. I miss having to put actual effort in to catching Miners. Trying to get that 100% from a single combat probe pass made it much more interesting. |
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
244
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Posted - 2014.07.11 15:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: I explained the main reasons why WHs are safer than High Sec, and you discarded them without thought.
Again I'll say, you clearly dont know THE single most important thing about living in a WH, and considering how rude and quirte frankly awful you are being, I dont really have a good reason to tell you what it is because then you might avoid being killed.
So Ill tell you what, you enjoy living in a WH not doing anything because you are scared of bad men coming in.
Ill just keep on having my slaves farm them like they have done up till now.
LOL without thought? I responded to every point you made!
Are you sure you are on the right forums? The game we are talking about is EVE.
At the endo of the day, most people in the wormhole community agree that ore sites should be changed, even the wormhole csm rep, so i don't really care what you have to say on the matter. Goodby o/ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6148
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Posted - 2014.07.11 15:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:LOL without thought? I responded to every point you made! Yes, and you put precisely zero thought into your responses.
Quinn Corvez wrote: At the endo of the day, most people in the wormhole community agree that ore sites should be changed, even the wormhole csm rep, so i don't really care what you have to say on the matter.
You did enough to rant at me over two pages.
Again, just because you don't know how to do something does not mean nobody does.
As I said, enjoy living in a WH and (as you claim) not doing anything because its so scary. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
2408
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Posted - 2014.07.11 15:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:Clearly you are a very experienced and knowledgeable player and my three years in wormhole space counts for nothing in comparison to your eve career. If you could do us all the honor of explaining in what way "wormholes are safer to mine in the high sec", I'm sure everyone will be extremely grateful.
You didn't provide a suitable argument that discounted what i said but that's okay, you are almost certainly are a very busy person so naturally, you don't have to provide facts or examples in your posts. Please stop flashing your degrees and credentials. I assure you nobody cares.
Your replies seem to be limited to "you don't know no WHs, man" and "ur baseless and ignorant". Maybe you can type up an argument with.. you know.. actual sentences about mechanics and WH experiences instead of calling names?
Edit: Actually, you don't know what you're talking about and quitting EVE soon because of PLEX prices? Now it all makes sense. .. when everything else is gone .. |
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
244
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: Your replies seem to be limited to "you don't know no WHs, man" and "ur baseless and ignorant". Maybe you can type up an argument with.. you know.. actual sentences about mechanics and WH experiences instead of calling names?
Already tried that and I didn't work...
Quinn Corvez wrote:For all the rational and intelligent people reading this thread, Ramonas claim that wormhole are safer to mine in than highsec is not true. Wormholes don't have local chat, and when you throw a cloaky nullified T3 in the mix, the miner will often never see the hunter coming and although they can do things to mitigate the risks, they can never stop a new hostile wormhole spawning in the system they are mining in.
As a hunter all you need to do is jump through the wormhole, warp to the ore site and kill the miner... The question is, is it too easy for the hunter and should they have to combat scan the miner so that the interaction is well balanced for both the hunter and the hunted.
I don't mean to come as rude or arrogant but it really does sound like a lot of people don't know what they are talking about here. I'm not the one resorting to lies and eluding to some supper secret method of making wormholes completely safe to win my arguments.
I speak from the hunters perspective as I want there to be some skill involved in catching that miner. Do you have any experience or real reason that makes you feel it's better for the hunter to get easy miner kills?
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6153
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote: I'm not the one resorting to lies and eluding to some supper secret method of making wormholes completely safe to win my arguments.
No, you just call people who know something you dont liars, use hyperbole (no one said completely safe, I said safer than highsec) and begin your counter arugment by saying "I have three years WH experience, I therefore know everything".
You dont exactly make it easy for people to even want to see your side with your attitude, buddy. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
244
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
I only bring up my experience to illustrate that I do in fact know what I'm talking about.
If you claim to know something that proves me wrong and you right, I think you would say it but as you refuse to share this information, I can only assume that you are being untruthful. I could be wrong and I'm okay with being wrong but I don't see why I should accept your arguments without evidence.
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Arronicus
Caldari Navy Reconnaissance
1089
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
ALL mining sites should be reverted to signatures. It was a dumb change, that yes, negatively impacted W-space most of all.
As for the dumb suggestion of setting up sling bubbles, yes, I'm sure that will do you a lot of good against interdiction nullified strategic cruisers. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6156
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:I only bring up my experience to illustrate that I do in fact know what I'm talking about.
If you claim to know something that proves me wrong and you right, I think you would say it but as you refuse to share this information, I can only assume that you are being untruthful. I could be wrong and I'm okay with being wrong but I don't see why I should accept your arguments without evidence.
So you are saying High Sec mining is safer than WH mining? Thats your position and you are sticking to it?
Then I entirely disagree.
Im not sure what else needs to be said. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
116
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
yeah the ore sites should be a sig again even in empire, i warped to help a new guy mine with the use of my orca and as i warped to the site i saw a ganker jump in system, warp off and i landed as the rookie miner exploded. blowing up miners doesnt remove isk from the game, just causes it to change hands, if i was to start a ganking group id have bigger fish to fry on a daily basis. "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
2422
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Posted - 2014.07.11 17:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:For all the rational and intelligent people reading this thread, Ramonas claim that wormhole are safer to mine in than highsec is not true. Wormholes don't have local chat, and when you throw a cloaky nullified T3 in the mix, the miner will often never see the hunter coming and although they can do things to mitigate the risks, they can never stop a new hostile wormhole spawning in the system they are mining in.
As a hunter all you need to do is jump through the wormhole, warp to the ore site and kill the miner... The question is, is it too easy for the hunter and should they have to combat scan the miner so that the interaction is well balanced for both the hunter and the hunted. I'm sorry I missed your earlier post. The rules of engagement in low/null are identical to what you describe here without the benefit of Local. As such, I agree with your assessment. .. when everything else is gone .. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1837
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Posted - 2014.07.11 18:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
temp locked for some cleaning ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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marVLs
626
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Posted - 2014.07.12 09:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
Should be sigs, all ore sites should need ore scanning probes to be scaned down, there You go now peps re mining in LS and NS |
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution No Excuse.
79
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Posted - 2014.07.12 09:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Quinn Corvez wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Dally Lama wrote: The result is that most WH communities now agree that mining at all in a WH is a stupid idea and many past WH miners have simply stopped.
No, they dont and no they havent Any that have stopped because of this have no idea how WHs actually work Do you live in wormhole space? Any experienced wormholer who knows how wormholes work would not make such a baseless and bold statement. What, that its entirely possible to mine more safely in a WH than in Highsec? I think any experienced wormholer (sic) knows this, its hardly baseless Okay i take it that you don't live in wormhole space and therefore, don't know what you are talking about. Wormholes are the most dangerous place to mine and no amount bubbles or reducing the mass of your static can stop someone rolling into your system and immediately warping to your ore site.
Whatever happened to the days when corps would send attack ships to guard their miners during mining operations? All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
285
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Posted - 2014.07.12 19:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
WH mining has had massive buffs in the last couple of expansions. Ore sigs being switched to anoms was a small price to pay for all of that. |
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6202
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Posted - 2014.07.12 19:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
Titania Hrothgar wrote:
Whatever happened to the days when corps would send attack ships to guard their miners during mining operations?
Same thing as in High Sec
Nothing "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
494
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Posted - 2014.07.13 00:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Drop drag bubbles at every probable incoming vector and make a bookmark to avoid them yourself? Then if they try to drop on you they're far out of scram range. Until they learn to scout in a cloaky? Nothing exploity about dropping a can or three in the bubble as long as they're not dozens to lag the other one out. You only need a blip as a warning and warp out.
1. Nullified tech 3s 2. Nullified sceptors will still burn you down |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere Republic of the 5phere
857
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
Adapt like we did. Close all your entrances and lock yourself in. The changes to the probe screen means as soon as new sig appears you can all get safe long before any hostiles have a chance to get within range of your miners. It really pisses them off no end.
Oh course, you are still vulnerable to anyone cloaked thats already in your hole, but thats half the fun of wh-space! Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2024
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
Dally Lama wrote:In a recent expansion WH mining sites were switched to become anomalies, which means they can be warped into without scan probes.
The result is that most WH communities now agree that mining at all in a WH is a stupid idea and many past WH miners have simply stopped.
Whats your opinions on this? Should they keep them as is - screw the risk averse - or should they restore them as signatures where constant d-scanning for probes can keep you safe (unless theyve pre-probed).
You assume, incorrectly, that the 10 or so seconds it takes a good prober to find you will somehow make things safer.
It won't.
The best WH hunters sometimes stake out systems for days at a time. They are a patient bunch, unlike most pilots.
And since subsequent expansions/releases (whatever the damn buzzword is these days) have, repeatedly, changed the nature of scanning/probing itself then any restoration would be a much bigger revision than you might be aware of.
That being said, most EVE communities agree that CCP has bigger fish to fry.
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
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Sibius Aidon
Crusaders of the State Legion of Misfits
26
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Adriana Nolen wrote:I've lived & mined in w-space. No, they shouldn't go back. The pro mining groups just close all their wormholes & mine in virtual safety. Scanning the damn things down every day & in every system you visited was tedious. I dont know that much about WH but I always herd that once you roll a wh another opens? Is that not correct? I do listen to a couple of WH podcast and this subject has come up several times. Is rolling a hole different for each class of WH?
It's like every other site. They are closed until someone INITIATES warp to it on the originating end. Only then does it connect to a random system that falls within its parameters. It's relatively easy to close down a hole and then just keep an eye out for the stranded and new sigs to pop up. To that end, no WH is truly safe...even with everything locked down. There is no such thing as virtual WH safety. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
2591
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:07:00 -
[56] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:You assume, incorrectly, that the 10 or so seconds it takes a good prober to find you will somehow make things safer.
It won't. But wouldn't probes show up on dscan and allow a warpout for anyone paying attention?
.. when everything else is gone .. |
Kaea Astridsson
Yggdrasil Woodchoppers Noir. Mercenary Group
87
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
They drop probes outside your d-scan range (if possible) otherwise they drop them and have them warp outside your d-scan. Then they get a good estimate on your position, get probes ontop of you - hopefully lands a 100% scan, then have the probes warp off once more.
If your D-scanner runs every cycle you might spot them. But seeing you're also doing other things, chances are you'll miss it. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
6236
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Felicity Love wrote:You assume, incorrectly, that the 10 or so seconds it takes a good prober to find you will somehow make things safer.
It won't. But wouldn't probes show up on dscan and allow a warpout for anyone paying attention?
But they also show up to your WH guard as they come into the system too. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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