Mr Greyscale.

Have you started a new thread yet about what to do with the Advanced Industry skill and potential additional skills? I cannot see one, so could you either tell me which forum to start it in or link to one you have started please?

Not yet, it's on my to-do list for today :)

Just implementing the changes to advanced industry now, is 3%/level sufficient? I'm wary of making the bonus too big as we're essentially speeding up *everything* here, at least where it's throughput-limited rather than playtime-limited.

I would be happy with that.

And an official thread once this goes out would be good to discuss what to do in the future. Thanks a lot

Just spitballing here, but the New Teams thing seems pretty useful, what if the skill or a new skill acted as a multiplier or a bonus to what efficiency and time requirements the usage of a team would get you? This would literally more bang for your buck when bidding and utilizes the brand new feature. Another skill Could lower the costs associated with bidding for a team (I.E. Artificially inflating bids or generally making their use cost less somehow).

Remember these are just Ideas. I'm liking the changes to industry, just not the sudden loss of my old ME bonus on my indy. Cool to see some progress is being made

Just implementing the changes to advanced industry now, is 3%/level sufficient? I'm wary of making the bonus too big as we're essentially speeding up *everything* here, at least where it's throughput-limited rather than playtime-limited.

OK, new skill is set up internally, hoping to ship it next week. And yes, it'll only apply to new jobs. New thread incoming in F&I, will link in a sec.

[edit] https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4834965#post4834965

OK, new skill is set up internally, hoping to ship it next week. And yes, it'll only apply to new jobs. New thread incoming in F&I, will link in a sec.

[edit] https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4834965#post4834965

Comparing the old ME to the +% damage skills isn't exactly a fair comparison, as you can still be effective without any of the extra Gunnery skills trained. With the old ME, if you didn't have it to V, you wouldn't be able to compete at all on the markets, and would be losing ISK on everything you sold. You would be better-off simply selling the minerals.

Thanks for the quick turnaround, but I'm still severely disappointed at how this all turned out. A 300% increase to a useless skill is still useless, and the only consolation we get is that we'll have the opportunity to dump EVEN MORE time into training skills that might maybe possibly (but probably not) help us at some undefined point in the future.

Just so CCP can go and change those skills to do something completely different anyway.

As a small time indy guy I just want to throw in that that this change has done nothing to help the little guy and it feels like CCP knew this replacement was a joke. The skill is nearly 10% of my total sp...and is useless to me. I choose to train a skill that would be useful for my corp, spent a significant amount of time training it that could have been used for something I actually enjoyed.

If CCP really feels that SP is more devalued more by doing a refund then showing that they will switch whatever skill you decide to train into with something completely different on a whim, then that just shows how woefully out of touch they are with their player base they are.

Subs are decreasing enough already, do you really need all the indy alts dropping accounts too? Do you really hate money that much?

Just implementing the changes to advanced industry now, is 3%/level sufficient? I'm wary of making the bonus too big as we're essentially speeding up *everything* here, at least where it's throughput-limited rather than playtime-limited.

Having Mat. Eff. at 5 never gave you a benefit but rather eliminated a penalty. Every serious producer has it at 5 already otherwise he couldnt compete. I also dont get why suddenly everyone is suprised about the change...it was outlined in the indy-devblog pack, 2 months ago, that the skill would be changed to something less powerful (devblogs said reduction in installation costs).

In its current iteration Mat. Eff. is a too powerful skill as was Drone interfacing.

But refunding SP doesn't devalue SP. If anything, what devalues SP is CCP taking my skillpoints out of a skill that I intentionally chose to train because it was useful to me and putting them into a skill that is literally useless to me. In fact, allowing SP reassignment when removing a skill and adding a new one enhances the value of SP earned over time, because I know that if at some point in the future CCP decides to "change" a skill into a completely different one I'll still be able to get some use out of those SP by putting them into something useful for me.

I agree that refunding SP when making changes to skills is a bad idea in general. But there's no precedent for this big of a change to skills without refunds. All of the other skill changes that have happened since I started playing merely "tweaked" the skills, but they still affected the same aspects of the game. This isn't a skill change...it's a skill removal because a feature no longer exists, similar to the learning skills, combined with a skill addition, and forcing people to get the new skill at level 5 even if they don't want it.

In other news, congrats on a smooth launch of Crius.

But refunding SP doesn't devalue SP. If anything, what devalues SP is CCP taking my skillpoints out of a skill that I intentionally chose to train because it was useful to me and putting them into a skill that is literally useless to me. In fact, allowing SP reassignment when removing a skill and adding a new one enhances the value of SP earned over time, because I know that if at some point in the future CCP decides to "change" a skill into a completely different one I'll still be able to get some use out of those SP by putting them into something useful for me.

I agree that refunding SP when making changes to skills is a bad idea in general. But there's no precedent for this big of a change to skills without refunds. All of the other skill changes that have happened since I started playing merely "tweaked" the skills, but they still affected the same aspects of the game. This isn't a skill change...it's a skill removal because a feature no longer exists, similar to the learning skills, combined with a skill addition, and forcing people to get the new skill at level 5 even if they don't want it.

In other news, congrats on a smooth launch of Crius.

The whole "we avoid refunding SP whenever possible" seems a bit silly now that drone skills are getting refunded for even less of a change than this.

Can you explain what you're talking about?

No, 3%/level isn't a fix. It just makes the skill marginally less useless.

The old skill was pretty much essential (and to level 5) for anyone who did any manufacturing on a regular or semi-regular basis. The new skill is only of any use to someone who is running lots of manufacturing jobs more or less constantly. The 1%/level makes it equivalent to level 6 Advanced Mass Production.

3%/level means you can run nearly 12 jobs in the time it would take to run 10 without the skill. If you have MP and AMP to level 5 and are running 10 jobs, that's probably useful, though I doubt many characters would choose to train it to level 5. I certainly, as an occasional manufacturer for whom material efficiency is important and time efficiency isn't, would not choose to train the skill at all in its new form.

While you're throwing free skill points at people who hadn't trained drone skills (and missing), I feel like 768,000 SPs have been stolen from me.

Update for those keeping track, most of the changes for this skill should now be live, but the invention and reverse engineering bonuses will not be hooked up until tomorrow's downtime, sorry. Thanks for your patience!

don't you think you could have completed your "polish" by adding that note to the friggin patch notes!

what Is it with you guys and total oblivious methods of proper communication to the community.