Make a Jovian newbie zone. Shove ALL the newbies in it instead of scattering them across the galaxy. Stick a gate out to the real New Eden once they pass their tutorials. Turn player aggression off in that zone, because Nanobots, Jovians, or Jovian Nanobots ...

...

So we have our gated newbie zone. You don't let any non-newbie players access that area. When our nice safe newbie finishes his tutorial which hands him a few basic ships and modules and shows him the ropes, Jovian Nanobots teleport all the [stuff] in his newbie station hangar into a station on the other side of the zone's exit gate. You make sure before the newbie gets out of the Jovian Nanobot Playground that he understands that once he leaves the tutorial area, the gloves are off and that Eve Is Mean. Done and done.

Meanwhile, CCP can then use its ISD team, GMs, customer service reps or whatever to focus all their efforts on that zone, where all the real new players are. They can handhold the newbies, answer questions, and try to retain players in a hands-on way, rather than the current system where they have to hope a new player asks for help in the existing in-game newbie help channel rather than just uninstalling while rolling their eyes.

New players are new money. Money is EVEs true life blood. I don't understand why anyone would be opposed to a limited, temporary gated concession area to further the game in the long run.

"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

Getting "into" eve doesnt need to be like the special forces selection

OP is trolling, right?

This isn't how eve works and doing something like this would just make the misconception new players have to worsen. you give a PvP free zone for new players then the players who join into to that will expect there to be other areas in eve that are like this. that will lead to a push to have more areas like this such as no pvp in .8+ then .6+ then no PvP in HS this would kill the sandbox

I have more faith in CCP than to do that.

People are focusing on the caging and the safety and ignoring that it would allow concentration of resources to assist and answer questions and THAT is actually the important thing.

The cage isnt to keep US out, it's to keep THEM in.


It doesnt matter how much people want it to be, EVE isnt SPARTA!!!!!!!!!!!! and new blood is the most important thing in the game, bar nothing. Getting it in in a manner that doesnt interfere TOO badly is critical. New people tell their friends, what do veterans do?

Either a gated zone or a zone where shooting each other is not permitted regardless of security setting or active wars.

Make these system unable to host any PoS, set for the future expansion Crius the system index setting to 15% default with rookie items worth zero (meaning the setup cost is zero) and class 1.0 sec minerals (Veldspar only).

I see only upsides to this idea, no downsides, unless you plan to go gank or harass new players.

no but you can't give them one set of rules to learn the game then remove them and there are places for rookies to go and learn the game w/o being babied EvE-Uni BRAVE ect as well as the rookie help channel and as many have pointed out the rookie starter systems are already protected

no but you can't give them one set of rules to learn the game then remove them and there are places for rookies to go and learn the game w/o being babied EvE-Uni BRAVE ect as well as the rookie help channel and as many have pointed out the rookie starter systems are already protected

I'll go a step further and recommend BRAVE since they at least partake in sov warfare and can teach newbies how that works in addition to what they both cover. Plus, I often feel like when I'm talking to EVE Uni players they still haven't figured out how it all works. BRAVE has never given me the same overly pretentious whitewash about passing "classes" that EVE Uni players are always on about, but those last two points are more opinion than legitimate points.

very true but i did recommend BRAVE and the reason i recommended EvE Uni as well is because of the different styles

If that works so well, why is there such a chronic new player problem?

You think CCP are trying to address a problem that doesnt exist? Businesses don't do that.


Why so against controlled learning conditions?


Man, the old players have forgotten so much about being new.

I cautiously support this, more for the ease of education aspect than anything else. Its much easier to tell a bunch of people stuff they need to know when you know exactly where they'll be after all.

you just described what the rookie systems already are.

Zones like this should be for the tutorial only.

once eve has equipped you with what you need to play the game - show you how to fit a ship, how to fly around, how to warp, how to use a stargate etc - then you should be dumped in to the pond with the rest of us.

we also need to accept that the NPE shouldn't end with the tutorials, also. it's the new player experience, not the tutorial experience.

No, they are not. You have a rule, written on a wiki, that unless there have been recent changes to the tutorials, it has never been cited in game.

When you create a new toon in eve you are overwhelmed by the massive amount of informations Aura is giving you, and those informations are just a tiny bit of the story. You get told a bit of how to fit and fly your ship, how to attack target in space, you are not told anything on how to tank damage or how to fit your ship for pvp or pve, you are obscure of what's ganking, how to move your goods in relative safety, we need to teach them how to be a "gallant" (hello Code. people) , teach them to look out for Awoxing, to avoid stupid deaths and so on, the list can go on for pages.

The rookie system last really for 15 min at best, career agents are already in possibly dangerous space, nothing forbid a person to abuse of a new player as soon as he jumps off the "protected" system, and he is not yet aware what he's risking.

We need a new player to be fully aware the moment he leaves the starting zone he's in for all that's EVE. You might like it or not, but the great majority of the negative review about this game are all about its steep learning curve. And that you might like it or not the idea is not from some kind of golden carebear, but it's from themittani itself, the CEO of the Goonswarm federation and no, it's not 1st of april yet.

but that learning curve is also one of the high points of eve. Does this attract the same type of ppl as WoW or Perfect World? no but that is not a bad thing there are better ways out there to fix the NPE without doing this

Don't mistake the attraction of depth as the same as a steep learning curve.

That said, if newbies were locked IN; they could even dedicate one system as a mini-RvB with GMs/ISD FCing - I'm aware I'm putting a lot on those guys and it'll be like herding cats but I'm trying to imagine a new player experience that doesn't just teach the ropes - but shows the awesome stuff people can get into early on. Trying to explain eve in rookie help is like trying to explain a parachute jump - you can try but 99.99% is lost. You need to DO it, not read about it - who is going to come out of a cool fleet/small gang battle and go 'you know what, I want to run missions/mine'?

Things like that are FAR easier in a locked area.


I wish people would stop thinking it's about newbie 'safety'; it is so much more than that.

That would work too - anything that exposes newbies to the depth of this game and starts them down the sandbox path - think about the tutorial and it's nature, is it any wonder newbies end up missioning and mining?!?!

It's all it teaches them!

Times have changed, this kind of experience might have been fine 10 years, when I started, but not today Yes, I'm a forum alt, you are probably a forum alt too. Anyway, games, like industries and businesses manage to stay afloat because they can adapt to the times, and the numbers are clear.

You can see blogs from Greedygoblin, Themittani and other sources all pointing out in the direction eve is losing players, even if subs are managing to stay above the real number of players as many have two accounts, if not more. What's worse, is this bloggers are not watching the game from the same point of view, but they are all coming to the same conclusion about the loss of players and the lack of new blood in eve.

Now you said that once the selling point of eve was that is actually a very hard and merciless game, at the fanfest CCP admitted that many people (a shocking amount actually) enter the game, level up their raven and leave once their "game" is over and another part simply quit after failing at EVE soon after the actual NPE. Let's be honest, losing your hard earned ship to a mechanic or a gameplay you are totally not aware of is not very pleasant.

If you truly love this game, and you are, along all those other posting with posting agreeing and disagreeing in this thread, you must face the reality, EVE need to change and adapt to the times, and if this mean that steep learning curve that you so much loved need to be made a bit less steep, so be it.

But that's not the crux of the issue. The issue lies in the community. Yes a lot of new players mine and mission, but they also join corps oriented towards that, and often the only corps available to new players for those activities are lax with no structure and little support, full of people who define the lowest common denominator.

Community makes or breaks every MMO. Most new players see the negative side Eve's community, repeatedly and often, long before they ever experience the good side. Change that and you change everything.

But that's not the crux of the issue. The issue lies in the community. Yes a lot of new players mine and mission, but they also join corps oriented towards that, and often the only corps available to new players for those activities are lax with no structure and little support, full of people who define the lowest common denominator.

Community makes or breaks every MMO. Most new players see the negative side Eve's community, repeatedly and often, long before they ever experience the good side. Change that and you change everything.

Times have changed, this kind of experience might have been fine 10 years, when I started, but not today Yes, I'm a forum alt, you are probably a forum alt too. Anyway, games, like industries and businesses manage to stay afloat because they can adapt to the times, and the numbers are clear.

You can see blogs from Greedygoblin, Themittani and other sources all pointing out in the direction eve is losing players, even if subs are managing to stay above the real number of players as many have two accounts, if not more. What's worse, is this bloggers are not watching the game from the same point of view, but they are all coming to the same conclusion about the loss of players and the lack of new blood in eve.

Now you said that once the selling point of eve was that is actually a very hard and merciless game, at the fanfest CCP admitted that many people (a shocking amount actually) enter the game, level up their raven and leave once their "game" is over and another part simply quit after failing at EVE soon after the actual NPE. Let's be honest, losing your hard earned ship to a mechanic or a gameplay you are totally not aware of is not very pleasant.

If you truly love this game, and you are, along all those other posting with posting agreeing and disagreeing in this thread, you must face the reality, EVE need to change and adapt to the times, and if this mean that steep learning curve that you so much loved need to be made a bit less steep, so be it.

That may be a chicken and egg situation. If people come out wanting to look for decent fights, odds of a high sec carebear corp appealing are low and they may look further afield. They come out only knowing missions and mining and no REAL battle, they're going to gravitate to wards those corps.

I'll freely admit this may not happen, but I'm somewhat optimistic about it.


@Kaerakh: I thought it was a given that all the assholes lived in high sec? Null/low is much more civilized.

think about the tutorial and it's nature, is it any wonder newbies end up missioning and mining and quit from boredom?!?!

It's all it teaches them!

No. Go play WoW if you like that game.

just because wow has a feature, doesn't mean the feature is bad or we should ignore glaring failures within eve.

Killing other players everywhere/anytime is not a "glaring failure" within EvE. It's is major achievement.

except we're talking about the NPE here. do keep up, darling.

except we're talking about the NPE here. do keep up, darling.

Specially in the NPE, in the first 1-2 hours of the game, new players should lose all their ship to ganks and be podded, multiple times. They should also be scammed, awoxed, wardec, lose every isk/ship. Everything cool in eve should happen in the first few hours of game.

Welcome to EvE Online. Deal with it, or goodbye and go play some random kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg. This is what the NPE should be like.

Here's an idea you go back to ridding your theme park rides in WoW and we will play over here in our sandbox ok?

that's nice, but when they don't even understand how the UI works, doing all of that is irrelevant because they don't understand what's going on, nor do they understand what's going on within the context of the game.

you've just showed them a load of crap they don't understand and will put no effort in to remembering because you haven't even shown them how to undock.

it's like giving a toddler a book by dickens and going "read it or you're going to the orphanage", might want to teach them to read before you give them a book?

It's a very small theme park for young players. Think of it as a nursery. I appreciate you don't want the whole game to become a theme park, but could you at least think of the children!

The plus side being that we could potentially gate posting privileges behind having completed this tutorial zone. Someone couldn't post anywhere but the Newbie forum without having finished it.

Thereby the death of the NPC posting alt, one of EVE's most toxic features.

Oh, and another thing. Since the goal of this partially includes to not toss new players into the watery grave of the main game without properly preparing them for it, have them be skillpoint capped (idk, two million off hand, dunno how long they are expected to stay there) so long as they remain in the Jove Zone (or whatever you want to call it).

Any items inside the newbie zone also be confiscated with the exception of a frig/desi and maybe a few mill isk so they don't feel like they have spent however long and gained nothing and so that the larger eve market is relatively unaffected by this.

For all those so angrily opposed to this idea, why? Are >1 day old toons such a percentage of your targets that you can't stand to delay their entry into the universe by a few hours so they can get a good introduction as to the facts of life in New Eden.

One major reason we are apposed to this is the risk of it snowballing out of control lets face it ccp isn't grate at middle ground its normally go to the extreme then nerf it back when they get the chance. so its not so much that we just want to pop little newbie ships and more that we are afraid of this great game turning into a casual "for the newbie" game that so many other mmos have done just to get more members i'm sure most of us want the NPE to be improved but we also don't want it to worsen the experience for those who have already invested years. and all though in this form the idea doesn't threaten that the give them an inch mentality does worry people

One major reason we are apposed to this is the risk of it snowballing out of control lets face it ccp isn't grate at middle ground its normally go to the extreme then nerf it back when they get the chance. so its not so much that we just want to pop little newbie ships and more that we are afraid of this great game turning into a casual "for the newbie" game that so many other mmos have done just to get more members i'm sure most of us want the NPE to be improved but we also don't want it to worsen the experience for those who have already invested years. and all though in this form the idea doesn't threaten that the give them an inch mentality does worry people

That's a pretty good point. I for one really don't want to see CCP go the route of SWG and UO, irrevocably pissing off their core playerbase to chase theoretical casual subscribers.

As much as I am surprised to find myself agreeing with Mittens on this point I do.
A newbie only area so they can learn more about the game before having to deal with the rest of us would be helpful.
Who cares if you call it Jove space or what the heck ever......

You would have to build in several things to make it pointless to attempt to live there.
Perhaps a different fiat currency that is worthless in eve.
Perhaps no ships can leave the newbie zone.

Limit all ships to T1s and few skill books in the area so when you are ready for it you are guided out into Eve proper.
The details like that can be worked out to an point where the area won't become a danger to the economy.
Would it be possible for someone to live in that zone for their entire time in eve?
Perhaps but it would not be likely, limited ships limited missions and no effect at all to the economy of eve would eliminate
any reason to farm the area. Since we have a component of the community that goes out of their way to prove they can gank people anywhere anytime deal with that instantly. If they want PVP they get eve. Attacking another player instead of Concord blowing up their ship gets their pod dumped into high-sec in eve.

But (and this is the most important) get them access to the community.
There will always be people that leave the game. But time to get their feet under them and going the right way would be a big help. Yes I am aware that vets can and will create new alts to look around and have fun in newbie zones.
That could be helpful as well. With no way to make profit there and limited resources available it helps reduce the number of people that would stay there.

Short of concord insta popping someone in high-sec that aggro's a newb (like that wouldn't be abused to hell and back) it is the most elegant solution. It is also the best way to ensure that it dosen't "snowball" into the rest of high-sec as detractors claim. Eve remains unchanged and the newbs get a chance to learn before coming out to play.

Oh and CCP the gate is likely to be camped to hell and back so they appear in a random high sec system tied to the race of their choice. Or you could put them in low activity areas ... To get things started.

this doesn't ensure that it won't snow ball as for the exit being camped to hell i say let it be let them be blasted and podded then re-spawn in a random med bay. the first thing they encounter in eve after the tutorial would be a gank they wouldn't have anything to lose as they exited it would be a great sort of event for the community a way of greeting them into eve and indoctrinating them as one of us.

10 years of constant growth.

Citation required.

[quote=Christopher Tsutola]

It would in that any anti ganking and non PVP is ONLY in the newbie zone.
Nothing changes in Eve proper.
As far as the gate camp point goes. Fair enough :)
Although I am not one for hazing or initiations in general you make a valid point.

the snow ball comes after this is implemented this little thing could easily grow past the borders of the newbie zone and with an influx of players who would be introduced to eve with a safe zone more ppl would push to extend it into eve. it isn't a definite scenario but the risk would be there

I would argue that, barring significant watchfulness and advocacy of the existing playerbase, that it is a definite scenario.

CCP has been adding more safety creep to highsec year after year without cease. Case in point, I have never once seen them patch out a "bug" faster than they did with the MTU drone aggro thing earlier. They did that in a week. That is their on record fastest fix ever.

Their efforts have largely gone to giving highsec more safety for their mindless themepark content while the POS architecture languishes for literally years.

So I would say it's a significant danger. And imo, if the dichotomy all the change crusaders are offering is true(which I know it's not, they use that as a scare tactic to try and bolster their shaky arguments), that we have to kill the game or the game will die, then I'd rather have it fade into obscurity rather than prostituted out to the thrice damned casuals before the servers go cold.

i would rather see it fade out then go the way of a lot of mmos that pushed me away with a bad taste but that doesn't mean i want to just let it die i'm sure something can be done to improve the NPE without damaging the game.

however i don't believe the NPE is as big a problem as ppl think and that the panel at fan fest may have frightened ppl a bit

i would rather see it fade out then go the way of a lot of mmos that pushed me away with a bad taste but that doesn't mean i want to just let it die i'm sure something can be done to improve the NPE without damaging the game.

however i don't believe the NPE is as big a problem as ppl think and that the panel at fan fest may have frightened ppl a bit

It can be done quite simply without doing anything more than what I suggested: One patch to fix the tutorials an an official newbie Player-run corporation maintained by CCP officials.

Assuming they do both competently...

As a recently new player, I can confirm just how many people who started playing at the same time I did are no longer playing 8 months later. Player retention is as bad as it was said to be in the panel. However, the players that remain tend to have more grit than the usual stock. That being said, there's nothing stopping people from sticking some sand in a few noobs' britches in between their pew and helping the process.

I have my doubts about how effective this idea will be. Do players leave because they've been griefed and they are new, or do they leave because they've been griefed period? Maybe this idea means we hold onto some new players for a little bit longer but still not for long.

NPE is not how WoW keeps its subscribers.

NPE is not how any game keeps its subscribes past the NPE phase for that matter

Last I checked vets greifing noobs in starter systems gets you banned. There you go, protected noobie zone.

Do we have any more suggestions from people more interested in making a living from the game then actually playing it?

I read the thread title and said "no" out loud. Why would "safe zones" be an appropriate introduction to a game infamous for the fact that safe zones do not exist?

I have my doubts about how effective this idea will be. Do players leave because they've been griefed and they are new, or do they leave because they've been griefed period? Maybe this idea means we hold onto some new players for a little bit longer but still not for long.

NPE is not how WoW keeps its subscribers.

NPE is not how any game keeps its subscribes past the NPE phase for that matter

It's not about the 'griefing' - god knows I've been in eve a long time and whilst I know it's there it's actually pretty rare on the statistical scale. It's about locking the buggers up and giving them a controlled environment to learn in.

Existing tutorials already address ship loss in a simulated environment. They try to teach u about tackling. They even try to impress the importance of FC's in fleets.

i think an area where you can learn how the ui and basic game functions work before being put in to the actual game is appropriate for any game.

[b]Goal


Griefers and Gankers = loss of money = loss of subscribers thus making griefers and gankers the enemy of all because if subscribers leave because of them then CCP loses money. When CCP loses money it shuts down and the rest of us become very, very angry....hold on NPC attack....oh half hull in my Kronos...am I going to lose it........uh..no.

So because EvE is a harsh mistress then the griefer and ganker will feel the hard hand of the mistress because we like new Rookies to be trained and not the self centered trolls who can only master a two mm long ship in their life.

I would argue that they don't effectively communicate those points. Mainly because the game does not compel you to read the information rather than click through it all and check the objective foot note. That isn't to say that you should force them to read it all, but there certainly is more incentive for finishing quickly and reading thoroughly when the average player brings their average MMO assumptions to the game.

The tutorials need to break those assumptions and show the player that they need to learn adapt new strategies to this game. Mostly because of how abstractly removed EVE is when compared to the average MMO experience.

I agree. its walls of text and irritating, distracting pop-ups mid mission.

i had one new guy getting frustrated that he could not get past one of the tutorial missions, but because he hadnt read the mission info he didnt realise he was supposed to lose his ship.

I cant imagine a solution beyond some text to speech tech.

If I were to start over and be new to the game, I'd like a place to get to grips with as many of the games aspects as possible without getting wtfRaped the first time I try low sec in a horribly fit cruiser (Thanks Vrabac :) ). For this reason I would suggest a single constellation that:

No one over X (2-4?) months can access.
When you reach 2-4 months you and you're assets are moved out into the big wide world
Allows you to dip into the wider universe at any point and retreat to the relative safety of it if the big bad bully's hurt you.
Offers systems with sec status ranging from 1.0 to 0.0 and all the usual rules apply.
Contains a couple of unique items that are genuinely useful to other players to encourage the newbies to venture out.
Has few market resources, making newbies come out to get what they need

B

Exactly lets get rid of ganking all together it really has no place in eve and only serves to lessen the experience that is provided by eve.




this is exactly the kind of thinking that will become more popular if the first experience new players have in eve is in a safe zone

So why is getting rid of awoxing a good thing?

People are often paranoid of high sec awoxing/hangar thieves particularly when the player is new as it can sometimes be very hard to tell a legitimate new player from an alt account of someone who is here to awox your shiny mission ship.

Removing the threat of high sec awoxing allows more people to take a chance on newer players and thereby giving them that experienced voice to give them the boost they need to get rolling.

Exactly how not to do it

2-4 months is much to long and will cause them to become used to that sort of safety
allowing them to take items out of that area would affect the market in the rest of the game and could be exploited
allowing them to go out into the rest of eve but then go back will make them feel as though eve has safe places
all the usual rules applying makes the area pointless as i could just make a new alt and go gank the hell out of them
Contains unique items this is possible the worst part of your idea as it not only affects the market but now forces me to make an alt every 2-4 months to take advantage of it
having anything in it that makes newbies leave the area defeats the the point of keeping them in one place where they can have a controlled NPE.

to add more another fundamental problem with the idea of a newbie safe zone where ISD and GMs can control the NPE goes against the core of eve a game that is a sandbox and has the players do as they wish. most players drawn to eve are the ones looking for an experience not spoon fed by the game this idea of a newbie zone would make those types feel the stories they have heard about eves sand box are exaggerated and not true pushing the kind of ppl away that would like eve and causing ppl who want that controlled experience to stay on only to find out once they leave that eve is not like that then leave as well

Goal
Improve new player retention by making the "newbie" systems much more sheltered, similar to how WoW does their newbie zones, thus enabling new players to learn the basics of the game with less risk of them getting "extremely surprised" by EVE's older players and game mechanics which then discourages them from subscribing.

Additionally, by clustering all the newbies in one area, the NPE help/retention/CSR teams are more focused and efficient, which, in theory, leads to new players subscribing to EVE.


I like this idea because it helps build a subscriber retention base for CCP that once the Rookie leaves the Crib and decides to stop venturing in New Eden but rather enjoy the environment that the Capsuleer might decide to take a few turns in DUST514 or Valkyrie that they might otherwise simply say no to because they were treated like sh*t by griefers and gankers in New Eden.

The goal of EvE Online is to subscriber retention to have more subscribers, not to entertain a few hundred winey gankers or griefers who aren't able to get free kill mails from Rookies.

Subscribers = money

Griefers and Gankers = loss of money = loss of subscribers thus making griefers and gankers the enemy of all because if subscribers leave because of them then CCP loses money. When CCP loses money it shuts down and the rest of us become very, very angry....hold on NPC attack....oh half hull in my Kronos...am I going to lose it........uh..no.

So because EvE is a harsh mistress then the griefer and ganker will feel the hard hand of the mistress because we like new Rookies to be trained and not the self centered trolls who can only master a two mm long ship in their life.

Basically you want the NPE to end with a player knowing what eve is and all the tools at their disposal and a good grasp on mechanics. You want them to see the wider game options and not just missions - you want the trailers to be their experience. Once they leave 'school' it is up to them to seek their path as we have done all we can.

You can't give them an delusion of safety as that is unfair - but like I say, keeping a certain level of behaviour expected in this period would be useful, I think. Equally keeping them in one controlled place will make teaching easier, especially if events are staged.

Just a late addition. You are forever a noob, until you have lost a ship and not panicked while doing so. That may take 1,2 or 10 or god knows how many losses. But you are a NOOB still if you cannot take a loss and not panic.

Safe Zones, even for NPE shouldnt happen as there is no place in EVE that is safe. Sheltering new players isn't going to retain their subscription anymore than what we already have. In fact it would in all likelihood have the reverse effect.

No, tell them to htfu up front and let the chips fall where they may.

Just a late addition. You are forever a noob, until you have lost a ship and not panicked while doing so. That may take 1,2 or 10 or god knows how many losses. But you are a NOOB still if you cannot take a loss and not panic.

The original idea behind the concept is valid and I support it, but a better solution needs to be in place in addition.
We are not going to change the players we currently have, and some take great delight in killing noobs, after all it's only a cheap frigate or destroyer? Right?

The problem is when you are new, you have NOTHING, and in the tutorials you get a few things.
To us it's pretty cheap and worthless, but to a noob It is everything! Such tears, such wailing such fun for the griefer, he gets more tears from a noob than anyone.

So here's the suggestion, make the starter frigates and destroyers free, when podded, pick up a destroyer or frigate, fitted, but something that is actually useful, not great, useful. Ie tristan or algos NOT noob useless frigate.

Let the newbie get podded and learn, it will cost him nothing, a few hundred k to a ganker alt is no gain, so it won't affect that, it will make the newbie, braver, less initially risk averse, and he can learn to deal with loss.

Advantages, zero cost to CCP, minimal effect to Market, better retention, prevents risk averse behaviour, encourages widening horizons.

Disadvantages? Fewer tears for griefers to harvest.

Seems fair.

The starter frigate is free. That is why its called noobship.



They NEED to die to learn that they will die . That willa void them spendign everythign they have on a faction Battleship that they will surely lose someday.

No. Learning how eve works should include getting ganked and scammed on day one to begin with.

Definitely not supported.

Eve is a sandbox not kindergarten.

No amount of splashing around in the kiddie pool will prepare someone for EVE. What they need is a flight/combat simulator similar to Tie Fighter. People need to be able to train to actually fly ships, not just learn what the buttons do. The trial and error method of combat training in this game is one of it's biggest faults. Noobs spend all that energy earning ISK for their ships and then lose them in seconds for reasons they can't comprehend with so little time to analyze before they wake up in a med clone. They lose that hard won ISK, the ship, and the lesson, all in one explosion. It's a trifecta of reasons to quit before the trial expires.

The noob ship is hella good in tutorials and level 1 missions.

Noobs already get several free frigates and a free dessie from tutorials. do u really want to give gankers easier access to free destroyers?

And when they have lost them they are effectively bankrupt.
So is it better to have them mining in their venture for a week to buy a new t1 destroyer, or to get out there and do stuff? You know, fight, explore, fight? And die repeatedly and have fun, but hey, unsubbing is always an option.
Theres plenty of time if they stick with it for them to get into better and more expensive ships, once they have died a few times and know who is an arse and who is not and how to avoid being podded all the time, because they have been through it, and are still playing.

Then and only then will they seek out others to play with. People like brave newbies are the ideal next step, but that first step before they get there currently either breaks most of their necks (fig) or encourages them to do exactly the opposite.

But if CCP believe that making the new player experience is about being butthurt and miserable,but we told you it would be nasty. Then they can keep things exactly as they are.

Telling people that life is going to be crap, but we told you in the tutorial, is not going to help subscriptions.

And if an experienced ganker is worried about a single million, he is doing something very very wrong.

Everyone claims that they want players to get out there and make and discover content, but once ganked, griefed or baited, the new player experience is just a grind, until you have a new ship and avoid content at all costs, because the costs otherwise in time and effort are too damn high.
Have you forgotten how long it takes when new, to earn even a measly couple of million? Try setting up a new toon and pretend you know nothing, and start with absolutely zero and don't give it any, for any reason, then you might get the idea again.

Be risk averse, be careful, talk to no one, trust no one, hide in the cracks. Avoid the new and contact with others at all costs.

^^^^THAT ^^^is the current lession, due to the insane cost of loss in the beginning. is it suprising you breed carebears?

So TlDr I am not suggesting a safe zone for newbies, I am suggesting to make it possible for them to be recklessly unsafe without it either breeding carebear behaviour or being suicidal to try to dive into the game.

You're drawing the wrong conclusion from that. Let me put the argument like this. Do you get butt hurt when you die in an FPS? The only reasonable answer is no. EVE is the same way, only that your fielded assets are destructible. The only logical reaction to those observations is that you need to manage your resources according to your circumstances and the level of risk you're willing to accept.

A majority of MMOs will not encourage resource management. In fact you can say that it actively enables behavior that ignores risk. Now, I have nothing other than my own experience to back this up, but I would be willing to bet that it's excessively rare for the average player not to have a previous MMO experience. It's easy to infer rules from other MMOs on EVE and be completely mistaken as to the intent of the game.

Enabling the behavior that promotes the cancerous development of highsec bears is the wrong way to go about it. You don't lull the player into a false sense of security by handling them with kiddie gloves and then suddenly cutting them loose. They will learn the game better if they're not protected under special circumstances, but I'm fully willing to cede the point that newbies upon their first initial foray shouldn't be smart bombed on the undock from Kisogo State War Academy.

Do you remember the first time as a noob you were ganked, or killed when you explored, or talked to the wrong person?
For you and me 2-3 million is less than pocket change, to a noob he has just done all the missions spent a week or so, maybe done a few L1 that he found hard, but enjoyed, and wham ALL gone. What does he have left, ah a venture, i'll mine for a bit, and a bit, and a bit.. Better save some isk..... Oh better barge....... Oooh carebear.

CCP are like someone who kicks a dog when it is good and rewards and reinforces antisocial behaviour.( literally avoiding ohers)

Try undoing that in a hurry.

So do not give them safety, give them a means to strap on a new ship and kill the berk who shot at you, repeatedly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk


I would say they're more like the mentally challenged uncle that kicks your ass at chess, but when you ask him how to play like he does he just says that your play style needs more, "PSSSSHHHH."


Done.


Because that won't be abused.

Concord still exists and he is in a t1 fitted destroyer with t1 fittings, you should be ok.

I seriously don't see the point of what you just said. I'll link a picture that makes an equally useful statement.

Amazingly vague statement.

I don't know about you, but that looks pretty delicious. I'd be much more inclined to gank a cormorant full of that then T1 fittings.

Your pictures bring great value to the new player experience discussion.
It might focus CCP's attention to the fact that office pizzas stop when there are insufficient players to finance them.

SiSi?

And who will they fight there? You volunteering, sensei?

Rookie systems are protected isd isn't always there though. And newbies don't always know to report griefing.

This is a great idea. Generally speaking, people who try to play this game, without help from someone who has already been playing, are completely and utterly lost for weeks and weeks. Is that a good thing? For some, yes. For most, no.

i'm really glad that you are part of the solution in getting new players more widely involved in the wider aspects of the game, that is valuable and a major asset to the game.

The quote above was intended to illustrate the real lessons that players are picking up on as the message, it is deadly to their future and the future of the game, and will guarantee that they really do not have any fun and either do as Rise said and level up their raven or just quit.

I am trying to suggest a way to break that vicious cycle for the players who do not make it to your assistance and mentoring.

Because of the high cost of simple t1 frigates and destroyers RELATIVE TO THEIR WEALTH overcautious play is rewarded by not having to grind to repeatedly replace ships lost through whatever means.

To us it is chump change, but to a new player it is a major major part of their wealth, and this encourages minimal risk (and fun) and an acquisition mentality.

If Ti ships were available, much like a good corps ship replacement policy, these players would have fun and learn. All aspects of the game.

They would become conditioned to death and loss, and when they were able to fit better fittings or ships, may have gained the skills to fly them somewhat capably having learned from their early losses.

What I contest, to put it more clearly and bluntly, is that there's even really a message being delivered to the player other than the game is about spaceships and players can blow you up being introduced in quickly clicked away text blurbs. To reiterate a point of mine that I bring up often. CCP does not effectively communicate with new players.


I would say, "So what"? While I can't say this without absolute certainty. I would be confident in stating that there are exceedingly few instances, probably bordering on none, of corporations that go out of their way to specifically prey on scrub players. If the new player does something to draw attention to themselves', then that's a learning experience not to do that or more importantly gather more information before proceeding with a poorly thought out idea.
Meanwhile bear philosophy of risk rejection will just teach you you can't leave highsec rather than play smarter.



No they would be conditioned not to manage their own resources because then it would be someone else's resources, and as already mentioned it would raise the bar in an already exceedingly competitive market for entry.

Since my first idea went down like the brass on the titanic, the only other thought I had to contribute to this thread is this, flip the current spawning system on its head.

New players spawn in a 0.0 system that at the time of spawning had no ther pilots in it. Lesson 1 - get to safety (if you choose to)

I thought about this, briefly. I ruled it out because where I stay, the null>low jump is camped, quite literally 23.5/7.

Expecting newbies to have pre-generated off gate warps and to know to come in via celestials to avoid the bubbles is.....unreasonable.

It's a nice idea, but the locals make it impractical at best.

So IF its other players helping that gets rid of this risk averse mindset like Phaade and urself have both just pointed to, how is isolating new players from existing players going to help?

This is why im skeptical of this idea.
If u dnt really start to learn about eve until u get out of the nooby areas and into the hands of other players, how does making them spend longer in more isolated newby areas help?

How are existing players going to teach new players to scratch Phaade's paintwork whilst they are in this newby area?
How are existing players going to teach them to tank their barges?
If thats what u want them to learn in this noob area.

I fear the same ppl will leave for the same reasons, just a little later.

As for dispensing T1 frigs, as much as it would be a god send to FW players, its entry level ship manufacturing. The margin is already pretty awful.

That will end well.

Question? Are we remembering we are trying to retain new players and not make hamburger?

Safer zone than the 1,0 systems would create something that isn't EVE Online, so you would be prepare players for the wrong game.

if you want to shelter them a little from the big bad universe that is EVE, which I can imagination, sometimes bad luck or ignorance can destroy the game before you're actual started.

I'd reward people for finishing a tutorial scenario with a "Rookie insurance"

An insurance that replaces your ship with all it's modules fitted and ready to undock (maybe even cargo though that might be tricky, on the other hand a great way for corps to actively invite new players)

say one of these Rookie insurances a tutorial scenario not unlike neural remaps max of 5 or so.

there should be a restriction to losing ships in certain criminal actions of course, this should give them a little more help in exploring the game and instead of excluding them from the other players it will give them better ways to interact with them.